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mike
23rd January 2007, 11:07 PM
I currently have a Kombat 96 which goes nicely with 5.3. Although sailable with 4.7, the board usually feels big at this point & I find I need to keep it on the water to keep under control.

Mind you, the Kombat clearly suits the majority of my days, but I do miss abit on fully enjoying the fewer bigger days.

I'm 6 ft & weigh 185lbs. Water conditions are probably considered "real wave" with chop & nice swell further out.

As it wouldn't be a commonly used board, I'd probably consider a models 1-3 yrs old for price.

Thanks!

Ola_H
24th January 2007, 06:44 PM
What about a Pure Acid 80 2006? A dedicated wave board for the likes of KP, but also a great B&J/freerider which is not without similarities to your Kombat so transition bewteen them would be easy.

You could also look at Acids from 2005 and before, but those are from a different line of developement. Also these offer GREAT control though.

mike
24th January 2007, 10:01 PM
It's always good to get other opinions as I would have guessed Evo 74 range thinking Acids were more pure wave. But based on your description that there are B&J/freeride capabilities in high wind, the PA80 is one to think about. Also, any similarities to Kombat is a plus.

Thanks!
(& great forum)

Ian Fox
25th January 2007, 06:47 AM
Totally...PA80 absolute blitzer for that, no question.
PA80 (2006) absolute bargain for that, no question. ;)
Perfect partner (size/range/overlap/ride) to the K96
4.7 will be magic, even 5.3 you will use PA80 more than you expect..

Cheers ~ Ian

PS : PA80's secret potential for hi wind B+J/blasting with crossover to wave has been up a few times; more discussion check the search engine links.

mike
28th January 2007, 12:38 AM
Hi Ian/Ola,

I looked up past posts on the PA & can see how it would appear pretty ideal in the overlap with Kombat 96. I've also been checking for board availablilty, pricing & starboard's historical board reviews. What do you think of the following options in comparison to PA80:

'05 Acid 74
'04 Acid 74
'04 Trance 74

Ola, you mentioned '05 & before is from a different line of development vs the PA80.

It's not that I'm looking for 74 litres, it just seems I've found more available in this size. I've read how there's more to 6 litres than 6 litres (shape etc). These boards all report able to hold a 5.3 sail (I'd use a 26 cm B&J fin). With this can you get drive off the fin with these boards??

I much appreciate your input as I've little experience to draw on for this. Smallest I've been on was a buddy's older 70l wave board & 4.0 on a day when I could barely keep my Kombat on the water with a 4.7 cranked flat(ridiculous). I was 1/2 planning & 1/2 shlogging & ended up downwind with the 70l (easy to water start as it sunk nicely). I would NOT WANT too big a gap like this.

Ian Fox
31st January 2007, 10:47 AM
Hi Mike,

These are all really different boards to the PA80, and for bigger riders I would suggest something the size/range of PA80 to be the smallest ideal choice for the described conditions/ride style etc, especially if you want to avoid to much schlogging etc. PA80 bats a bit above it's weight (size) because it is a relatively efficent board, which helps get (and keep) bigger guys going in good but sub nuke conditions.

Combo of heavier rider on smaller board with bigger sail is usually not the ideal "sweetspot" scenario to gaurantee the most smiles per hour..

Cheers ~ Ian

mike
31st January 2007, 10:01 PM
Thanks for re-confirming.

If there's one thing I've learned in this sport, it's better to make the extra effort to get the right gear for the conditions. Pays off big time in higher "smiles per hour."

o2bnme
31st January 2007, 11:37 PM
Hey Ian, on this subject, what do you suggest for B&J for someone who's 140-145 pounds? I seem to find tons of information about heavier sailors.

Today, my small board is a 91L AHD Convert 60. What would you suggest as a replacement for something from 4-5.6 wind range for a lightweight like me? I would not take it out in the waves. I'm more interested in bump & jump and speed, but comfort in the chop is important as that seems to be an annoyance when I go sailing in high winds and the chop that results

Jean-Marc
1st February 2007, 02:34 AM
o2bnme,

Not Ian writing but for B&J and speed with 4.0-5.6 sail size, I guess the 2005/2006 Prokid S-Type 72 L might be a good candidate for a light weight.
Check the message from Juri Munkki (67 kg) below (both in french and english) : http://www.star-board.com/forum/viewthread.php?forum_id=12&thread_id=21382

Or you might want to check this old thread about S-Type Prokid and Sonic 90 for a light weight below :
http://2006.star-board.com/forum/askteam/read.asp?ID=4651

Cheers !

JM

Jonathan
1st February 2007, 05:21 AM
Hi o2bnme,

I'm the same weight as you, just bought a 2007 Wood Pure Acid 74 as my small board for both bump and jump and waves. I also have a Fanatic Freewave 78 but find the PA much more fun in 25+ knots. The Fanatic (probably most similar to the Kombat in Starboard) has much more sail carrying ability and easily copes with a 5.8 whereas I don't think I would try anything larger than 5.3 on the PA74 - but the Acid is a really great all-round high wind board. One of those boards that just feels so "right", fast and lively but well controlled, very stable in straight line blasting mode but effortless to jibe or carve down a wave face or chunk of swell.
I believe that trying to cover the 4.0 to 5.6 range is quite an ask for a small board (in our weight range) if it is still going to be fun in 30 knots. My theory is that trying to cover too bigger range with a smaller board can lead to it being good at everything rather than outstanding on the epic days (that you remember for years!). I realise it may seem too wavey for what you are after but please try one if you have a chance. As far as speed goes - managed to get it to low 30's knots with standard fin and wave sail at Sandy Point last weekend, although I guess that doesn't really count when guys are hitting 44 on the same day!

Good luck,
Jonathan

o2bnme
1st February 2007, 08:11 AM
Thanks guys. I'll take a look at those options. I definitely need to try a few boards before doing anything.

Ola_H
1st February 2007, 02:29 PM
mike
Hi Ian/Ola,

I looked up past posts on the PA & can see how it would appear pretty ideal in the overlap with Kombat 96. I've also been checking for board availablilty, pricing & starboard's historical board reviews. What do you think of the following options in comparison to PA80:

'05 Acid 74
'04 Acid 74
'04 Trance 74

Ola, you mentioned '05 & before is from a different line of development vs the PA80.

It's not that I'm looking for 74 litres, it just seems I've found more available in this size. I've read how there's more to 6 litres than 6 litres (shape etc). These boards all report able to hold a 5.3 sail (I'd use a 26 cm B&J fin). With this can you get drive off the fin with these boards??



Neither the 74 liter boards you have above is quite in the same league for blasting as the 06 boards. The Trance has a more controlled feel to it and would for aexample probably make a good high wind freestyle board. The 04 and 05 Acids are both nice. The 04 is the last year from the "old" line of development. Very controlled in high wind but not as fast as 06 PA. The 05 74 is a bit more rockered than the 06, but still has a fast and flowing feel to it. It fill not lock down for pure blasting in quite the same way as the 06, but people are still getting really fast GPS readings from it. So, out the these three, I would suggest the 05 A74. For me at 150lbs, any of these takes 5.3 no worries, but at 185 non will be that effective with a 5,3. You will get better 5,3 performance with the B&J fin, but trim will generally not be that good. Possible but not ideal. Any of the three would be a sweet deal for steady powered up 4.7 and more.

Ian Fox
2nd February 2007, 08:41 AM
Right !

From 06 the PA80/86 had a different rail shape to the smaller PA73 (and older Acids), which subtly but significantly accounts for extra efficency and a lot of the hi wind rough water blast ability of the 2006+ PA80(86), whereas the smaller 73 really is a softer rounder rail, so while a better choice for ligher riders by "size", (and an epic small board for really slashing waves) important to note the differences in the performance when taken into B&J blasting mode ( c/w true wavesailing) are more than just size (volume).

Ease of getting (keeping) the PA80(86) going and reasonable upwind "bite" are also + factors in B&J mode, as well as the rather good rough water speed.

In general, rating actual GPS speed on hi wind blasting boards can also be deceptive; in most situations it is the combo of speed, comfort and control that makes an open water "hi wind" blasting board king - and in many real world situations the "slower" (control) board may be a "faster" (and easier) ride on the day than the dedicated speedster in rough water. While a few Acids have pulled some serious speed numbers on flat water, there is no doubting a more dedicated board will be faster in that mode. But for the same reasons, those speed boards are not really your ideal open water/hi wind chop blasting choice.


Cheers ~ Ian

steveC
2nd February 2007, 09:46 AM
Hi Ian,

You mention the PA73, but isn't the 2007 offering the PA74?

Ian Fox
2nd February 2007, 02:01 PM
Hi Steve,

That's correct for 2007, but what I was describing above is the background of the first time (model year 2006) we had a (significant) difference in the design/development methodology inside the Acid/PA line- which occurred in 2006 (model range PureAcid 86/80/73) - and resulted in two (86/80 KP..) of the boards having the extra efficency =B+J potential, while the other (then PA73) remained more "pure" hardcore (Levi..) wave.

The underlying point to highlight was that from model year 2006, the PA80(86) have a real reason for delivering "better" hiwind blasting performance than simply size (volume) alone, when c/w the smaller PA/s.

In 2007 that differentiation still exists - maybe not so marked, as the 2007 boards are changed mildly from 2006- but still there in the PA86/80 vs PA74/68.

Cheers ~ Ian

Ola_H
2nd February 2007, 03:07 PM
To complement Ians words, the 06 PA 73 was actually developed from the EVO 70 but kind of drawn out (both rocker and outline). Still it had the same control oriented concave bottom and soft rails. The 07 PA74 (and 68) was developed from the 06PA 80 so the rocker and v-layout is similar, but the smaller boards still have the softer rails.

Still, the 07 PA74 and 68 are in my opinion much nicer for blasting than the 06 PA73.

Giuseppe from Italy
2nd February 2007, 06:46 PM
Very very interested thread!

steveC
3rd February 2007, 12:32 AM
Hi Ian,

Thanks for the clarification. I reread your earlier post and I can now see that I missed the mark at the time. Nevertheless, your added comment clarifies things very well and further highlights the design distinctions within the PA line.