View Full Version : Early planning gear light weight sailors
23rd January 2007, 11:11 PM
myself and other friends have a discussion about alternatives to Formula for light wind windsurfing for light weight sailors. (<75kg, <165lbs)
There are opinions, which say that using slalom/freerace wide boards, 75/80 cm, and smaller sails than formula, 8.0/8.5, will give the same early planning threshold as formula gear gives. (7/8 knots)
What do you think about?
24th January 2007, 01:42 AM
I agree with those oppinions, an iS133 and 8.0 cam sail is about as good as a formula for really light people.
But why not buy a kite for light winds? It's a lot less tyring than big sails. Or go play volleyball or something...:D
All the best
24th January 2007, 02:50 AM
I just posted to a similar topic, but let me respond to Lampi. For the most part, I couldn't agree more. After taking my 8.0 Retro out on an F-Type 148 with a 66cm fin, I found I could plane VERY early. I do have a 9.8 V8 and 70cm fin I use when the wind is at its lightest.
I will be doing more testing between these two setups. I was surprised how well the 8.0 and the FType did and I want to see how much I gain by using a 9.8. If I can get out there with less sail, when I'm out of shape, my back and forearms would be happier.
I am going to buy a tandem windsurfer for the lightest of winds. My wife and I will be able to sail together and enjoy the day. It will sort of be like going canoing. I also have resurrected an old Windsurfer Classic. I can put the 8.0 Retro on that and sail. I have found that it is a blast to go out on!
On the subject of kiting, I want to resist picking up another sport. It keeps the funds for windsurfing more available. ;)
Here is the text from my other post on this subject...
I'm 140-145 pounds.
My current lightwind gear is an F-Type 148 and a 9.8 V8. My next smaller sail is a 8.0 Retro. When sailing with heavier sailors (180-200 pounds), I find they go to a 10.6 V8 and a formula board when I'm on my 9.8 V8 and FT148.
The other week, I was using my 8.0 Retro and an iSonic 105 (stock 40cm fin) when the winds were strong enough for it. A friend was on his formula board with a 10.6. He definitely planed earlier than me, but it wasn't by much. I was surprised how close I was to keeping up with him. I should have been on my 9.8 with my F-Type 148, but I wanted to test the low-wind tolerances of my Retro and iSonic combination.
I put a 66cm fin on my F-Type after he packed up and found the 8.0 Retro to be amazing in light winds (I rigged it to the numbers). I use a 70cm fin when I rig the 9.8 V8, by the way.
Here's a picture of me that afternoon with the 8.0 Retro and an F-Type 148. You can see from the water that there wasn't much wind.
24th January 2007, 04:36 AM
An option: Stand up Paddleboard. With mast cassette so you can enjoy light wind windsurfing too.
25th January 2007, 12:38 AM
The kite i had in mind wouldn't cost any more than a new light wind rig+board. I didn't say he should buy a whole quiver of kites or something, just one kite and board about 16 - 18 m2 as an alternative to big rigs.
The reason i suggested it is that my dad bought a formula board and 10m2 rig and i tried it a few times and i didn't like it at all. It was heavy to uphaul, almost impossible to ''pump'' and it felt like a torture when i got planing. The 10m2 sail was simply too big for me. When the winds got strong enough to get planing without pumping, a friend who weighs about as much as me went in with a 140l/7.6 and was planing with no problems. In the afternoon, when the wind was strong enough for 5.5, i was too tired to go sailing....
We sold the formula the same season.
25th January 2007, 12:41 AM
I'm about 60kg and have found my Hypersonic (H105) planes quite early when rigged with a big (8.5+) sail. I've sailed it with sails as big a 9.6 I've also sailed a number of formula boards. While I can't quantify the difference in early planning between the H105 and larger boards I don't think its much. A bigger fin (I've used as large as 58 cm) does seem to help for early planning. The stock 44 cm fin wouldn't do as well.
25th January 2007, 01:18 AM
It's awfully tough to plane up in 7-8 knots, but if one was considering 10 knots, the chances improve greatly. In these conditions I can readily plane on my old course slalom (284cm x 61cm), a 50cm fin and an 8.3 sail. Of course, the angle of attack is no where near what a formula board can achieve, but for general sailing about with an emphasis on reaching, one can have a fun time zipping about. I can honestly say that the kites really don't have me over the barrel in these conditions, and when the wind dies off, I can simply slog in. In most cases, the kite guys are swimming if they miss the signs.
25th January 2007, 01:54 AM
I think that a 75-80 cm wide board and an 8.5 would be a good alternative to formula for a light guy. With pumping you could plane in about the same wind strength as a heavier guy on formula gear (a little over 10 knots). Of course I think an even wider board would give you and extra boost, like in the nice picture posted by o2bnme .
I weigh 155 lbs and based on my experience, my best estimation of minimum planing thresholds for me is:
10 knots or less: Can only plane with 10-12 m sails on Formula board
12 knots: 144 liter F2 Xantos with 8.5, or hypersonic with 9.4
13 knots: 125 liter Bic Techno with 7.5
14 knots: 99 liter Carve with 6.9
16 knots: 99 liter Carve with 5.8
18 knots: 99 liter Carve with 5.2, or 77 liter waveboard with 5.8
20 knots: 77 liter waveboard with 5.2 (my favorite combo)
~25 knots: 77 liter waveboard with 4.2
~30 knots: 77 liter waveboard with 3.4
30th January 2007, 05:01 AM
I weight 65 kg (about 145 lbs) and I've done a lot of testing to find out the planing threshold (start and sustain it) of various sail/fin/board combo as follows:
6/7 knots : 10.6 sail, 70 cm race fin, formula
7 knots : 10.6 sail, 54 cm race fin, HS105
8 knots : 10.6 sail, 48 or 44 cm race fin, HS105
9 knots : 10.6 sail, 40 cm race fin, HS105
10 knots : 8.2 sail, 40 cm race fin, HS105
11 knots : 8.2 sail, 40 cm race fin, Carve 111
12 knots : 8.2 sail, 32 cm slalom fin, HS105
12 knots : 6.9 sail, 32 cm freeride fin/Carve 111 or 30 cm freeride fin/Kombat 86
From that above, you can see that the planing threshold is dependent on a number of factors such as sail size, fin size, max width & OFO width of the hull, depth of concaves, weight of the board, energy/determination/skills and weight of the rider. Some combination did work much better than other, obviously...
30th January 2007, 10:26 AM
I would agree with those numbers as well. And I agree with Lampi, the big rigs are quite heavy. When I'm not in shape, my back gets very sore after a couple of hours... so I try to stay in shape. :-)
As for kiting, I was not trying to convince someone to stay away from kiting. I was just sharing the reason why I didn't want to do kiting. If I were to spend money on a kite and board, that would be money NOT spent on windsurfing. ;-) Kiting is a valid option for the discussion. I apologize.
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