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View Full Version : A real STARTBOARD LONGBOARD???


crazychemical
10th February 2007, 04:02 PM
http://www.star-board.com/viewpage.php?page_id=68


check it out!!! Sb is finally going back to future, after Exocet and Tabou boards now starboard is bringing good old vintage longboards back in business.

Guest
10th February 2007, 09:37 PM
Yeah, that's a good thing. Maybe some surfers will buy the boards for stand-up-paddling, and then discover windsurfing by popping a sail on one day. Definitely a good thing.

I'd still like to see starboard make a normal windsurfing longboard. They've now done everything BUT that, which is strange. Hybrids, serenity, SUP boards... It's like having all the sides but not the main course.

o2bnme
10th February 2007, 09:59 PM
I'd love to see Starboard make a board similar to the old Mistral Superlight. That was/is a great lightwind board.

crazychemical
11th February 2007, 01:01 AM
i agree with our guest-poster. But this is a very good step in the right direction: a slim, long board which will get a lot of attention from longboardsurfers, at least i hope so.
Now to see if it takes on.

steveC
11th February 2007, 01:12 AM
It might be a bit too early for specific details, but I wonder about the weights of the two SUP boards. Without the integral adjustable dagger assembly, I would think the weight savings would be fairly significant. From my perspective, the ability to optionally attach a fin type dagger (similar to the Serenity) makes better sense than incorporating integral dagger assembly. I say this because my first sailboard included an adjustable dagger, and over time, I hardly ever used the board that way. Also, one could substitute a swept weedfin for vertical fin type dagger. An important feature in many locales faced with shallow conditions or kelp.

Another thing, I'm curious about the decision to go with a brass insert on the deck for attaching the sail assembly instead of going with a standard mast track. I would think that the standard mast track would be more robust overall, especially in a sizable surf environment. Yet, I'm surmising a bit, since true strength and durability has everything to do with how the inserts are designed and incorporated in the board.

Overall, these SUP boards are a very exciting addition to the Starboard line. I have to admit, these offerings have my attention. What's the suggested retail pricing?

steveC
11th February 2007, 01:32 AM
Oh, one more interesting thought. SUP boards like these don't have to be limited to windsurfing shops. I can easily see this type of product in the classic surf shops. Although there are no windsurfing shops anywhere close to where I live (absolutely nothing for over 120 miles), there are many local surf shops. I think that if a slightly different distribution model was investigated and tapped, the whole thing could easily be much more dynamic and offer the potential for tremendous growth. As the Guest poster above so insightfully noted, windsurfing could easily be a feasible outgrowth the existing surfing/SUP market.

crazychemical
11th February 2007, 04:26 AM
well, the SUB are in the first place paddle boards aren't they? (unfortuantly) which might explain the choice of designb and for the adjustable dagger.
I would indeed like to know a lot more specs of this board inclueding its retailprice. Longboards have been a sidehobby of mine and i've adjusted old longboards (i'm talking TenCate shippers! from like 1984) to fit all types of sails over the years so this sudden evolution in the windsurfing industry is one of them ost exciting ones i've seen in ages! and to see my fav brand taking more serious steps towards these types of boards is just a dream come true :d

Guest
11th February 2007, 06:15 PM
Looks really fun. Might give it a go. Makes more sense than kiting in light wind (swimming and all of those lines) and closer to true surfing.
These guys have good infos and are doing it in waves.

http://www.hotsailsmaui.net/forum/viewforum.php?id=4
http://www.surfingsports.com/standup_paddle_surfing.asp

Guest
12th February 2007, 04:26 AM
Wish it had a centreboard. :-(

Problem with a fin is that it tends to be too small at low speeds, and it tries to capsize the board when it starts planing. Oh, and you have to walk out to launch. The lack of a centreboard annoyed me on the Serenity and it would annoy me on these boards.

Having a fin is fine, if you only sail in deep water, aren't really interested in going upwind in light winds or reaching planing speeds, and don't mind a high-aspect shape that tends to stall when being used by beginners.

Per
12th February 2007, 04:26 PM
Agree.
What I like on my Aero 127 is to be able to play in the shore break where the fun is. This needs a fin of max 32 cm to avoid hitting the bottom. What I miss on the Aero is to be able to really point away from the shore to go out and have a longer distance to ride back again. Here a centreboard would be fine in marginal conditions (and heavy!!)

A fixed 65 cm fin in the centre of the board seems quite scary for shore break fun...:o

Ola_H
12th February 2007, 08:10 PM
I think the two boards have more of a real Stand up Paddle heritage than old windsurf board heritage. So, no centreboard make sense. They will probably not be upwind rockets, but judging from how Jeff Hendersson and Giampaolu Camarrotta have been able to move around the breaks in super light winds on their longboards, I would say it far from "drifting" either. The long water line and the shape in general probably gives as much lift alon as a small centre fin does on a shortboard.

BTW, see Svein talk about the boards with Giampaolo on his blog:
??
http://mauisurfreport.blogspot.com/

Cheers,

Guest
12th February 2007, 09:38 PM
The SUP seems to have little to do with windsurfing. It's just a large surf / paddle board that you can attach a sail to as well. If I didn't know better, I might think I am in a time warp - 1970's.

Starboard seems to have fun coming up with unusual boards that appeal to a very small percent of the market. I don't fault them for this, it's just surprising.

I don't think they are trying to come up with something for the masses, just experimenting and having fun with varying concepts.

I still race my original 1985 superlight a couple of times a year, plus I retired my last race long board - Equipe II XR a few year ago. Given my 23 year experience with long boards, it's difficult for me to conceive of a long board that will have universal appeal. It's a good concept, I just don't know what could be. You certainly can come up with a good recreational board or a good race board, but a combination of the two will be difficult.

However, if one design racing is the goal, a good recreational board could be raced. Performance would be limited, but in one design, it doesn't matter too much. On the other hand, except for Olympic class racing, I don't think that one design racing will never again be big. Too few people interested in racing and too many other windsurfing options.

Ken

James
13th February 2007, 08:15 PM
Ken Wrote: "Starboard seems to have fun coming up with unusual boards that appeal to a very small percent of the market."

That's exactly what I thought when I saw the starboard SUPs. Only a tiny minority of windsurfers would choose them over more versatile longboards like the Kona.

But now I'm starting to appreciate SB's strategy. The SUPs may not appeal to many windsurfers, but they will have much more appeal to SURFERS than any other type of "windsurfable" board. Surfers outnumber windsurfers by like 20:1, so even if only 1 out of 20 surfers buy SB SUPs, SB could be selling twice as many boards as last year!

I bet SB is considering advertising the SUPs in surfing media. To compete with the other ads in surfer magazines, I think SB needs to put their SUPs next to some nearly-naked Brazillian butts.

crazychemical
13th February 2007, 10:02 PM
Only a tiny minority of windsurfers would choose them over more versatile longboards like the Kona.

Longboard sufring is becomming more and more popular for lightwindcondition surfing, not everyone has the right conditions all the time ...
SB is just tryig to cover as much with one board as possible when they made the Subs ... thats what i think, i mean, wave, freestyle, lightwinds and paddeling for no wind ...it al seems to fit and the shape looks quite okay, especially when compared to the serenety, which looks more like a canoo then a surfboard :d

steveC
13th February 2007, 11:51 PM
It's worth noting the split in how Starboard's anticipated SUPs are being received in this thread. In my opinion, these boards aren't targeting one design or raceboard racing, especially since I would expect that the rockerline has been aptly taylored for maneuverability in a surf environment. Otherwise, the concept wouldn't be viable as either a capable SUP or a light wind longboard for the surf. Yet, with the addition of the optional fin type dagger it would still give many folks that live in areas far from the coast a multipurpose recreational level longboard for fun.

Needless to say, many here seem a bit disappointed that Starboard doesn't seem to be creating a completely modern full sized one design raceboard meant for serious racing. There is the Phantom, but it's quite possible that many do not see it as up to the job of serious raceboard competition that many envision. It could be that something is still in development, and that it will be presented at a later date. In reality, there is a whole lot of time before release of the 2008 offerings.

Ola H. has hit the nail on the head here with his thoughts above, and I'm glad that he directed focus to Giampaolu Camarrotta's website. For those who have never viewed Camarrotta's website, it's a goldmine of great information, photos, humor and vision. Also, Camarrotta has been a real leader in the realm of windsurfing surf designed longboards. I would highly recommend spending some time investigating his website, as it paints an excellent picture of what's going on in a very creative and engaging way.

As I mentioned in my initial post above, these SUPs REALLY have my attention, and better target my vision of the perfect longboard. I still remain hopeful that someone on the Starboard team will address my earlier questions. There are other folks like Sean Ordonez that have been building custom SUPs for some time now. In fact, there are a number of folks that I know in Santa Barbara that already have Ordonez SUPs, and they're becoming a much more visible part of the scene. Also, there have been a number of custom guys locally from the surfing industry that are making SUPs, less the mast track. That's why I mentioned the surf shop distribution/retail model in my second post above. I wouldn't underestimate the possible opportunities here, because James' comments about the numbers ratio between surfers and windsurfers is quite real.

Per
14th February 2007, 01:22 AM
I guess that the whole point is, for 95% of the recreational windsurfers, to be able to have REAL fun in 2 to 10 knots of wind which is the most experienced daily windstrength on 90% of the planet..
For many (really many) of us the fancy suntanned hi wind and wave adventure is only part of the magazine covers or a rare holiday.

If Starboard is able to come up with a design that can add frequent fun, exercise and action to us 95% living in those 90% conditions I guess there is an unlimited marked for THE MASSES...
Actually I guess, worldwide seen, that a true niche setup for the crowd consists of a sub 80 litre wave board and and smaller than 5.5m sail...

:p

Guest
14th February 2007, 03:22 AM
If the market for the SUP is surfers that also want to put a sail on their board, there may be a nitch for the board for those near an ocean.

As for the inland sailors - If people want to paddle, they buy a kayak. If they want to windsurf, no one will be selling them on an SUP.

Even if the prevailing wind conditions are light, few will be content with sailing in less than 10 knots for long. Almost all of us wanted to start planing as soon as possible in the beginning, impatiently waiting for enough wind.

When I recommend boards for beginners, it's almost always somethng like a GO. Easy for learning, durable and has the potential for excellent planing performance. If you only want to sail in 2-10 knots, the SUP may be a good choice. On the other hand, once a 4 or 5 year old masters the skills of bike riding with training wheels, how many are content to never take the training wheels off?

Somene dedicated to light wind freestyle may find the SUP intriguing.

It will be interesting to see who buys these things. If for some reason, the SUP somehow entices more people into the sport, that will be a good thing. Let's hope.

Ken

Guest
16th February 2007, 02:41 PM
Dear all.

SUP, is the re birth of wavesailing for me personally ,,,,
I have never enjoyed myself more than while waves sailing on the 12'2" SUP with Jeff Henderson on Maui this winter.
We went out without a harness in 2-9 knots, while easily climbing over the breaking waves, then turn around outside the reef and catch any waves , even the most slack ones.
Snappy bottom turns and smooth top turns , while getting plenty of speed down the line to keeping on riding the full length of the wave.
A new dimension for wavesailing .


When the wind totally disappeared , the paddle was handy to explore the coast line and try to catch a few waves at the outer reefs.
In Thailand we have tried some coast run,, good fun ,, some of my friends went so fast on the down wind paddle run that they missed
the meeting point by 7-800 meters.
Try to go out paddling into the sunset, calm water , no noise from the wind, the nose of the board cutting through the water.

Some people are confused some producers explaining that their windsurf boards that can be used for paddle boarding.
We are here discussing totally different concepts..
Our 12???2 ??? and 12???6?? are 100% Stand Up Paddle boards, that surf insane and are terrific for wavesailing too.
They also count as the best light wind freestyle boards,, but they are absolutely not planing hulls...as if they were, they would not be able to ride very well on a wave or paddle very well either. We are not looking at a windsurfing one design class here, we will leave that for other new projects that will be unveiled 15th of Aug.

SUP mixed with windsurfing is now its pioneering stage. it is a fantastic way for surfing and windsurfing to cross roads and at the same time invite all kayak and Canoe enthusiast to join.
In my early years windsurfing I used to paddle in a kayak to the little island where my windsurfing board was stored. It was hurting in my knees, neck and butt, while I got water in my face and could not really see much of what was going on around me as I was sitting down,,,,
The times the kayak capsized I had trouble getting on board again.
I will never sit down paddling again, as with SUP its all changed.

SUP, probably the best thing that happened to windsurfing and windsurfers since windsurfing.

Svein Rasmussen
16th February 2007, 04:16 PM
Dear friends.

The above comment was posted by Svein Rasmussen

Per
16th February 2007, 11:25 PM
Hi all....
For us inland riders, how will the SUP behave in ordinary wind driven swell or short chop..
Even at my coastal spot the "waves" will not be more than probably 60 cm when the wind is too low for ordinary windsurfing....
Paddling could be pretty fun then if it's possibly to ride a little on the swell... Only paddling seems good exercise but also low speed and hard work:p

;-)
Per

Guest
16th February 2007, 11:43 PM
Regarding stand-up paddling in lakes or places where there are no waves to catch, wouldn't an old windsurfing longboard work just as good as a SUP board? Maybe all you need is a long paddle and your old bic or mistral? I'm going to try it when it warms up around here.

Per
17th February 2007, 01:46 AM
Funny... I have the same thought. I actually have a '99 Mistral SLE 311 which is 311 by 69 cm. I'm thinking of trying to stick a 32 weed fin in it and go paddling on it. The board is hard railed with a very flat rocker and the weight is only around 8 kgs. Maybe fine for SUP racing:D