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Todd Hume
27th August 2011, 12:17 PM
Hi there,
Just wondering if someone is able to shed some light on the increase in weight for Futuras in 2012?

I decided to update and upgrade my 09 Futura 93 technora this year so I made an early commitment and pre-ordered a 2012 Futura 93 wood. I got the Starboard email saying that the boards have just been released online so i have jumped on the drool over the specs of my new purchase for the first time. The significant increase in board weight has really got me worried.

2011 wood F93 is 6.44kg
2012 wood F93 is 7.1kg.

My 09 technora F93 weighs in at 6.55kg.

I would say that it is a mistake but the increase is consistent across the new range. Is some cases it is even worst:

Wood Futura 111
2011 - 6.98kg
2012 - 7.9kg

I am really really hoping there is a good explanation for this. I am going to be super disappointed if my new board has just put on 0.66kg of fat.

Can someone please explain?

Thanks,
Todd

Todd Hume
30th August 2011, 06:22 AM
I am interested in hearing from someone at Starboard regarding this thread.

If i was to hazard a guess at why there has been an increase in weight then i would say that now the Technora has been dropped Starboard has altered the wood construction method to put a bit of technical distance between the wood and the wood carbon boards. This move may have also been made to make the wood construction cheaper to produce. In this process they have added a significant amount of weight.

As i have based my purchase on the performance of the board i see this as a pretty serious matter. If this is in fact the case i will be cancelling my order.

Would someone like to comment on this?

Thanks.

Farlo
30th August 2011, 02:57 PM
Maybe they've added a few layers of material to make the boards more robust, as Technora is over. My ST104 Wood 2005 is 6.5 Kg naked. Excellent shape but the edges are like eggshells. I also noticed that the very first models were a bit lighter.

dennisg
31st August 2011, 01:01 AM
I have just ordered a 2012 Futura 131. I would like to know if these weights are correct also. It would be nice if a Starboard member could reply. Is it correct that the other version is a full carbon version now instead of the wood/carbon skin for the 2011 version?

Todd Hume
31st August 2011, 03:50 AM
Hi Farlo. Perhaps you are right but i have had quite a bit of experience with Starboard woods and i have never had cause for concern about their strength.

If these specs are correct then strength is the only other explanation that i can think of that might justify this this weight increase. But that just does not make any sense. Starboard has had wood as their premium construction method since the 90s. And the key advantage of the wood has always been that they were way lighter... Why change it now?

Farlo
31st August 2011, 03:20 PM
Wood strength is OK but the edges have been quite sensitive to small dings (at least on mine, this is no general statement). It is still the most fragile board I ever had. Maybe they've just put some more Technora in strategic areas as shown in the technology page, but this is just a guess. Comment from SB would be appreciated.

Haggar
1st September 2011, 10:29 AM
An increase in weight of half a kilo would'nt concern me especially if the board was stronger. Different story for an iSonic or iSonic Speed where speed is the main concern. I've ordered a F111 and will be using in bay conditions as well as flat water for GPS.

Unregistered
19th September 2011, 11:11 PM
seriously, still no reply from a Starboard representative?
I think everybody is curious as to why SB made this decision, and especially what the benefits are of merging the Technora and Wood versions into a single board.

Farlo
20th September 2011, 11:35 PM
2010 Futura was available in four different technologies (wood/carbon, wood, technora, turfskin). This was maybe impossible marketing ;-) There is some logic in limiting the range and higher positioning. The new wood version maybe as exciting as the former one and more durable. Fanatic has a similar offer with their STD/LTD Ray, Hawk and Shark. At similar size, the STD Ray 100 is sensibly heavier than my ST104. Probably impact resistance is a bit better (but ST is still my favorite by far).

PrydeMan
25th September 2011, 06:03 AM
The wood and technora model may have been combined. Maybe a hybrid wood version.

Sailboarder
25th September 2011, 07:20 PM
From the website, it was done in order to keep costs in check.

Special note on 2012 Futura construction: Especially for the 2012 Futura models, Starboard's Carbon, Wood and Technora technologies have been merged into two technology options : Carbon and Wood. The Carbon Futura is the lightest and stiffest option. The new Wood Futura constuction is a hybrid between last year's Wood and Technora, to offer a blend of high rigidity, high comfort and importantly even more value.

dave
29th September 2011, 08:03 AM
From the website, it was done in order to keep costs in check.

Special note on 2012 Futura construction: Especially for the 2012 Futura models, Starboard's Carbon, Wood and Technora technologies have been merged into two technology options : Carbon and Wood. The Carbon Futura is the lightest and stiffest option. The new Wood Futura constuction is a hybrid between last year's Wood and Technora, to offer a blend of high rigidity, high comfort and importantly even more value.

yes, most people have probably seen that, but I think the big question, that there has been no response from the starboard team,is why the new wood version is heavier than last previous tecnora versions.
Pretty simple question in my book. Would be good to read an answer, no matter what it is.
The team seem to be able to answer most other questions posted. Why not this one????

HKG2103
29th September 2011, 08:43 AM
I was about to place order for a 2012 futura 93, but after seeing the board weight, I gave up.

Farlo
29th September 2011, 10:57 PM
Looks like early versions were much lighter. 2008 FU-111 Wood: 6.85kg & Technora: 7.15kg.
It can't be just a few more technora patches, which were already in the Wood version anyway.
Moreover 2011 technology page says that Technora has full wood bottom and deck.

"Freeride TechnoraTM replaces the PVC sandwich core with natural Australian plantation pine wood. The pine wood sheet is 0.6mm thick and covers the entire deck and bottom of the board. Sandwiched between biaxial layers of glass fibre, the wood/glass skin forms a stiff and impact-resistant outer shell. The result: a high performance board that is light, stiff and crisp to ride, and assembled through a more environmentally friendly construction process."

Isn't Wood 2012 exactly the same construction as Technora 2011? Weights are pretty similar.

Todd Hume
30th September 2011, 04:17 AM
Starboard. I appreciate the communication and resolution that I tracked down through your dealer. Thanks also for updating the website with that special note on construction. That update might not be enough though. It looks like plenty of people have concerns about board performance and are wanting an answer to this question. Its been a month now since the first post. It seems likely that your silence could be doing your brand some damage. Just a thought...

Unregistered
2nd October 2011, 12:57 PM
From the website, it was done in order to keep costs in check.

Special note on 2012 Futura construction: Especially for the 2012 Futura models, Starboard's Carbon, Wood and Technora technologies have been merged into two technology options : Carbon and Wood. The Carbon Futura is the lightest and stiffest option. The new Wood Futura constuction is a hybrid between last year's Wood and Technora, to offer a blend of high rigidity, high comfort and importantly even more value.

Hope the last bit means cheaper?

10% heavier, 10% price drop. That would be nice.

hansspeed
8th October 2011, 03:00 AM
I have just sold my 111 futura wood and now I see this almost 1 kg more weight on the new wood !!!!!!
How iss this possible ?? Starboardteam please reaction on this 8 kg wood board why so heavy ?/
Now i most buy a carbon voor 300 euro,s more,
And no price drop for sure

hansspeed
28th October 2011, 03:15 PM
This week I had my first spin with the 2012 futura 111 in the wood technora version, the good points are the board is very fast and easy ,gybing is better then the 2011.
minus the board is heavier then my old 2011 futura 111 around 850 a 900 gram ,did some weighting and came around 7.90 !! the planing on was less and not so good as the 2011
the sizes of the board is different and wider in the tail from 43 2011 and now 45.9 the board is 69 cm witdh a hte sam lenght,
the sizes they give with the specifications of 2012 are NOT CORRECT,why is this still not changed ??

Maximus
28th October 2011, 07:07 PM
the sizes of the board is different and wider in the tail from 43 2011 and now 45.9 the board is 69 cm witdh a hte sam lenght,
the sizes they give with the specifications of 2012 are NOT CORRECT,why is this still not changed ??

Are you measuring this correctly?

How about a pic with a tape measure on the board to confirm

Haggar
29th October 2011, 11:08 AM
I wont be too happy if they have changed specs, particularly the tail width, yes a photo would be good

Remi
29th October 2011, 02:07 PM
Hi Hanspeed

You correct ask already to the Marketing team to fix it, they sure fix on Monday.

The board totally change compare to last year so the specs also.

All the best

Maximus
29th October 2011, 04:27 PM
Hi Hanspeed

You correct ask already to the Marketing team to fix it, they sure fix on Monday.

The board totally change compare to last year so the specs also.

All the best

You have to be kidding WTF????

I for one will be canceling my order, guess the shop is going to upset with you jokers!

AND whats the obsession with increasing the widths, you've taken a perfectly good board, the most versatile in the Futura range, and stuffed it, well done guys.

Will take my Technora 2010 back, which is now the same weight as a wood board, and save my $$$.

Remi
29th October 2011, 11:36 PM
Hi Maximus

The board is a bit wider at 30 but came very quickly more narrow, this give a better length balance a top end speed so better comfort and of course you will be faster and stay versatile.

Hope this help to understand the shape anyway try to post photos next week.

All the best

Maximus
30th October 2011, 06:59 AM
Hi Maximus

The board is a bit wider at 30 but came very quickly more narrow, this give a better length balance a top end speed so better comfort and of course you will be faster and stay versatile.

Hope this help to understand the shape anyway try to post photos next week.

All the best

Yes, would be helpfull

John1
31st October 2011, 12:14 AM
To Rémi:
You wrote;
The board is a bit wider at 30 but came very quickly more narrow. Does this mean that the board has the so called "wingertail"?
If so I think it will function well. I have the Futura 111 (2010) and i Love it, but as I had Lorchboards some years ago, I have just bougth a Lorch "Offroad" 102 with the so called wingertail. Its a relative wideboard, but narrow in the tail after 30 cm (also a great board).
with regards
JJ

hansspeed
31st October 2011, 04:10 AM
Hy

I had som tow with the new 2012 futura 111, the tail witdh is on the 30 cm point 45,9, on the 2011 it was 43 cm, and i must say the board feels fantastic on the water superfast easier upwind and better gybing then the 2011 wood version i had.
The minus point was the plaining of the board ,do his weight technora wood version 7.9 kg and my old 2011 around 7 kg, but with a little pumping you can do the job , and then the 2012 is even faster then the 2011 , I must say more + points dan minus points

Haggar
31st October 2011, 11:03 AM
Hi Hans, thanks for your valuable info, are you able to tell yet how the top end control and ride comfort in choppy conditions compares to last years model ??

hansspeed
31st October 2011, 05:29 PM
Hi Haggar

The feeling on the water is better a litlle more higher on the water and the top end control in choppy conditions even better then the 2011 a little bit closer to the Isonic for my feeling but then with easier futura feeling gybing is better then the 2011 , I liked it very much

Unregistered
2nd November 2011, 05:49 AM
veldig interessant, takk

Farlo
2nd November 2011, 08:36 PM
Looks like an extra 800 grams has not ruined the Futura, after all. Maybe it is the end of the "always lighter" myth.

hansspeed
7th November 2011, 11:13 PM
Yesterday I had my first tow with the new 2012 futura 131 , and I must say it feels great I sailed it with 7.8 and 9.5 and I must say no problem at all the board is planing very quick
and the speed was also fantastic I sailed against a 127 Isonic whe where very close in speed and plaining, .
I am very happy with this new board it feld great for the first time on the water for me
FUTURA RULES and give me allot of fun .
Thanks Starboardteam for such a great board

Unregistered
8th November 2011, 06:59 PM
So after all, with no response from SB, the conclusion is that it is a great idea to increase the weight of a windsurfboard.

Still wondering why SB does not reply.

Tiesda You
9th November 2011, 01:58 PM
Hi everyone,

Sorry for the delay in joining on this thread. Remi, who sits here opposite me in our office, has mentioned it several times.

Over the years, we’ve been under tremendous pressure to keep Starboard’s board range tight. As a brand that loves new concepts, it’s hard – so we’re trying to find a good balance between the two. If you look closely at the 2012 range, we’ve sadly eliminated the Serenity and the K15. The Atom will go after New Year. It’s a shame because I still really love them all and I really believe they are great boards. I have a special edition Atom and a Serenity which I will keep preciously in a collector’s vault. It just goes to show the amount of pressure we have from the market and our sales network that has to finance each model we release.

When it comes to technology, we’ve also had to trim down the options. You’ll see that our freestyle board is now available only in WoodCarbon, for example. The Evo is now in Wood or WoodCarbon, when last year we offered a Technora option. The Futuras, and the new 2012 Carves that will be launched on January 1st for that matter, are now available only in Carbon and Wood.

When we did this merging for the Futuras and Carves, we had to choose which technology will be the basis for the ‘new Wood’. We chose Technora because it had the price point and a larger gap to the top-of-the-line Carbon. We also had some issues with two test centres on the Technora in 2011, along the rails around the mid-section, which required some extra reinforcements. We saved some weight by losing the deck paint, but overall there is a weight increase. This is why the 2012 Wood is significantly heavier than the 2011 Wood.

In terms of marketing, we knew that there will be a period of transition and that people would be disappointed that the Wood is no longer Starboard’s flagship construction – but it’s something we just have to go through. As the years go by, Wood will have to be content with being the mid-range construction. For those who are disappointed with the weight, hopefully the lower price will be a consolation.

Effectively, there is no direct replacement for the ‘old Wood’, with its unique price/weight/stiffness ratio. The Carbon option remains the top choice for the best possible acceleration and minimum weight.


As a side note, our hand was also forced by the fact that other board brands called their lower mid-range construction Wood. Their price and weight was more like our Technora, so we had the problem of windsurfers not choosing to buy our Wood because ours was more expensive (people didn’t seem to notice it was lighter back then!).

Finally, I want to make it clear that this Technology merging between Carbon, ‘old Wood’ and Technora to become Carbon and ‘new Wood’ is ONLY FOR THE 2012 FUTURAS and the new 2012 CARVES (the latter are to be released after New Year).

The Wood technology on the Evo, Quad, iSonic and Kodes are still built in the full PVC sandwich, full Wood deck and full Wood bottom skins. They are at the same weight as last year plus a little extra as we added a reinforcement patch around the rail of the front foot. There is no plan so far to change their construction either, as the ‘new Wood’ that is currently used for the Futura/Carves will not be strong enough for extreme wave and freestyle boards, or light enough for slalom.

While we’re here, I’d also like to quickly mention another Technology transition we are making, not directly related but similar. Over the next year or two, you will see the term ‘WoodCarbon’ being replaced simply by Carbon, even if the bottom uses Wood. You can see this in the 2012 iSonic 97 Carbon for example, or the 2012 Futura 101 Carbon. Next year, the wave boards will also be renamed Carbon, even though the construction will remain identical, i.e. with Wood on the bottom.
So within the big Carbon Technology family, there will be boards that are built with the actual carbon material on both deck and bottom, and others will be using carbon on the deck only, with wood on the bottom. We choose between wood and carbon for the bottom construction, depending on the use of the board. Wood is more controllable and stronger, so we are using it for high wind slalom boards and wave boards. The reason we want to make this terminology change is to simplify the perception of technology options.

By 2013, we want to have simply three main families in the future: Carbon, Wood and Tufskin.

I hope this helps (and I hope that I can still remember my forum password),

Tiesda

Haggar
11th November 2011, 04:39 PM
I got to try my new F111 Wood yesterday for the first time. I sailed in quite choppy open bay conditions in about 15 knts of wind. I dont think that the extra weight from last year is an issue, in fact I think it helps to hold it down in rough conditions. The board does look a little wider in the tail compared to last years, but it certainly performed well on the water. The finish of the board is excellent which you come to expect from Starboard.

I used a 7.5 m freerace sail with the stock 42 C3 Venom fin. The board planes early and as Hanspeed has already said, rides quite high in the water and handles chop well. Its refreshing to sail a board that effortly stays upwind which means you dont need to worry about where you are sailing. The board does'nt give as much feedback to the rider as iSonic, but it still gives a lively ride, and you can either relax and take it easy, or lock it down and go hard. Gybing was easy and decisive. I also tried a 6 m freerace sail and a 36 C3 Venom fin, but was a little underpowered, but this combo still felt OK.

First impression is that this is a great board, well done Starboard. :)