PDA

View Full Version : New Formula 167 Wide


bushfire.one
29th August 2011, 08:40 PM
Wow - wide tail / parallel rails or what!!:)

Remi - what fins were working well in your testing and development?

raffig
29th August 2011, 11:33 PM
90 cm tail? Nearly 10 cm more than the HWR!

Being both models "Ideal for medium riders", which one should I choose for my 77 Kg? Will the 167 wide be a bit of a handful in medium-stronger winds?

Thanks for sharing any feedback regarding your tests witht these boards.
Rafa

nonopr
29th August 2011, 11:45 PM
I will take a chance and say that Z fins in the sizes of 76-6cm will work. Maybe a Kashy in the same size.

Remi
30th August 2011, 12:36 AM
Hi All

If you go on my Facebook you will see other photos and the best fins for this board are Virus and Z Fins, no need anymore buy this Kashy crazy expensive fins to be very competitive. Now Formula Class can start to be bigger.

All the best

Remi
30th August 2011, 12:38 AM
Hi Rafa

Both can be good for you, if in your place is more 6 to 20, go for the 167 Wide but if more like 18/35 go for the 167.
Have fun

All the best

TSAF
30th August 2011, 01:40 AM
weight...?

Remi
30th August 2011, 05:21 PM
Hi TSAF,

We are waiting for the average from Cobra but should be around 9.1 for this volume.

All the best

nonopr
30th August 2011, 07:12 PM
Remi: if Formula class rules states that the hull shall be:
C.5.3 HULL WEIGHT
(a) The hull weight including footstraps and fin, without deckplate
and/or mastbase, shall be not less than 8.5kg.

Why starboard is not taking advantage the weight limit to make boards for Formula even lighter????
9.1 average like the past years is within range but that does not inclued the fin or straps. You guys can probably built a board that is about 7kg then add the fin about 1kg and then the straps about .5kg and you will be able to hit the class rules no problem.
What seems to be the problem with the weight??? durability? materials available?? a lighter board with stiffer material can make a big difference in 8-20 knots conditions.

Remi
30th August 2011, 08:49 PM
Hi Nonopr

0.05 Kg/L is pretty good, we can make better of course but the board will be too much stiff and this is not good but also, Formula is already an expensive board. First not in Cobra and that will be really expensive.
Formula class don't need it and this shape will make a very good advantage for the next 2 years ;)

All the best

nonopr
30th August 2011, 09:06 PM
Did I understand right? This board will not be made at Cobra!! Wow.

Thanks for the answer.

Remi
31st August 2011, 08:26 AM
Hi Nonopr

No this are made in Cobra but if we want something who is lighter, Cobra can't make it, need very high tech technology who will cost a fortune and this will impossible to sell on the market.
But I garantie you it's not need, try it and you will understand.
All the best

nonopr
31st August 2011, 08:13 PM
Yeah: No problem. I was just trying to find more information and you answer my questions already. I have order my board already.

psicowind
31st August 2011, 08:19 PM
For Remi, i'm 78 kg , my wind is 8-18 knt and go with hwr, i go for 167 or 167 wide???.

I dont like the start in planning of hwr , the new 167 is better??, and is olso confortable in wind as hwr??

Thank you

psicowind

nakaniko
31st August 2011, 08:45 PM
Just taken a look and the new formula it's really impressive in his dark suite, I can imagine the price too. But it's professional tool no question.Direct in my dreams with the new Phantom pro.
Imho the statement about Cobra could (also) sound that to have a lighter board the first thing should be to make it outside Cobra, as this is their standard. Is this the meaning or what nonopr have understood?
Edit: too slow to type (and translate), answer is already arrived.

Remi
31st August 2011, 08:47 PM
Hi Psicowind

For 8 to 18 knots At your, the 167 Wide will be the one
And it's a big step from the Hwr
Have fun
All the best

pfaffi
31st August 2011, 11:19 PM
No idea how both will work and if fins from HWR will do the best job or need bigger once???

I am in 90kg and my performance in 5-10 knts with HWR and Reflex 12 is not competitive against the 75kg guys.

So for me the point will be if the 75kg racers will improve once more with the 167wide their light wind performance and kill us 90kg guys in that conditions or the 167wide will be to big for them to make it really fast and they will better choose the 167 normal???

Hope to get soon some feedback from........ who will have the board first??

I ordered two days ago, takes 6 weeks shipping to Austria, maybe I choose plane.

pfaffi

nonopr
1st September 2011, 05:07 AM
Remi:
As for all radical designs and when something is so new there is always the person who dont think this board will work with 90cm wide tail.
I have people telling me that this board was not made for saltwater conditions and that the boards is for fresh water lakes with no wind.
Can you give us more information about this new radical board design and explain:
Where the board was tested?
How did it perform?
We know you ask to be use with a Virus or a Z fin but with what sizes it was tested with?
How can a board 90cm tail can work in 8 to 20 knots?
What sails sizes and brands?,
What conditions and where? Was this board tested in Puerto Rico by Wjotek or Steve Allen?
This will make my life a lot easier to sell this board in my shop.

Remi
1st September 2011, 08:04 AM
Hi Nonopr,

Their is always septic what ever I say they will believe in the board when will be very far behind this board;)
This board was test in only salt water in Thailand test by Wojtek, Steve, Alberto and me. It was test against the best boards on the market and you can be sure that the gap is quiet big and also the board is very easy on down wind and very Fun.
The bottom of the board quiet special and make feel the board really smaller and accelerate like a small board. Very limited drags.
We use Severne Reflex II in 12 & 11 to test all the boards and Virus 70.
For up wind and down wind it's the machine for the podiums;)
All the best

nonopr
1st September 2011, 08:49 AM
Remi:
I am convince this board will be the board to win races.
One more question.
Virus fin 70cm but cut/not cut what is the real size of the fin tested. Can you give a bit more detail in this part.
The fin is very important in this set up and I have order already 4 of this boards i want to make sure people who is getting it here will have a good idea of what fin to either buy or re use from their other formula boards.
For example:
I have a Z fin ZEOS- 70 not cut. What Z fin did you test with the best performance? ZE or ZF? Cut or not cut?

Gedas
2nd September 2011, 12:35 AM
I believe that when Remi sai 70 fins, he has in mind 70 with no cut.
Regarding Z F fins, there is no much information yet. Arnon Dagan used them in Worlds and in Euro Championship and gave his comments to producer. Martin Ervin, the winner of Baltic Cup 2011 use this fin when the wind pickups. I’m not sure F167 boards were tested with Z F fins as only very few are made yet. But Remi knows better for sure.
During EuroChamp Steve said that not only fin is very important to board, but a sail as well  and F167 and F167wide needs a little bit differed sail work when HWR, as F167 are faster. So, new Reflex III will be adapted in some way to F167 needs. Or something like that. It is also very interesting side of board performance. Would be nice to know more about it.

Regards
Gediminas LTU 76

Remi
2nd September 2011, 07:37 AM
Hi All

As I say this board feel smaller than it is and we make all our test with the normal Virus 70 and get already a very nice lift even in light winds. Of course we test a lot of other best fins on the market. And find that the 70 standard for Z Fins and Virus was the best reason why you have the sticker on the board to help customers to get the right set up. Now each rider can up grade the performances of this boards and this is very personnal stuff who can work with one but not the other.
Hope this help
A the best

NED136
2nd September 2011, 11:01 PM
Hi Remi,

I ordered a Formula 167 Wide. Hopefully it will be in Amsterdam end of Octobre. I have an F162 now so, I am curious about the differences.

Question about the fin: what vin do you recommend voor a 96kg, 1.96m sailor like me? I sail formula competition in the Netherlands. I contacted Z-fins and they said I should wait till 2012 as they are developing a new formula fin.

Do you have the email or something to contact Virus as I cannot find them on the internet?

I know its personal thing, but as a starting point...

Best regards & thank you very much!

Pieter

nonopr
2nd September 2011, 11:36 PM
I would not order a fin until the board has been shipped to the Virus and Z fin riders to test new fins for the board.

mark h
3rd September 2011, 01:07 AM
Heavy weights light wind, I guess:

http://www.boardseeker.com/searchDetails.php?gID=305347&pics=1

Remi
3rd September 2011, 06:30 AM
Hi Ned 136

So the Virus 70 and their light wind version are extremely good, you can contact them at this email :

virusfins@gmail.com

All the best

NED136
4th September 2011, 04:35 AM
okay Remi, thx!

psicowind
11th September 2011, 04:21 PM
Sorry Remi , for my friend Alberto that is 71 kg ,exspert rider , in 8 20 kt, wich is the best board : 167 or 167 wide ?
He said that 90 of tail is to big!!!!!!!! to go fast in downwind and for medium wind (12 -18 kn)????.

Thanks

Remi
11th September 2011, 09:17 PM
Hi Psycowind

This board change all the perception compare to what you have on the market. The board really feel smaller down wind due to her very big cut aways.
Anyway the problem for light rider is for reach who can became difficult but not up wind ans down wind.
In general I recommend the 167 for ligth riders but if in your country the wind is very light the 167 Wide can be the one.
All the best

ducze
19th September 2011, 04:49 AM
Remi,

I am about to order the 167 wide being 78kg ... I spoke to one of your team riders and he also mentioned that reaching n the board is tough... what is the story...?

Greg

nonopr
19th September 2011, 07:40 AM
Greg:
Reaching in any formula board is tough. They are not design for reaching. They are design for downwind and upwind racing. The wide has the widest tail ever in a formula board at 90cm.

Remi
19th September 2011, 09:41 AM
Hi Greg,

Good answer from Nonopr, nothing to add.

All the best

Ken
19th September 2011, 11:05 PM
Of course, this clarification is probably redundant for anyone sailing formula, but just in case..........

Actually, formula boards are good for reaching (recreational sailing), but only if you rig a meter or two smaller than you would use for upwind/downwind racing. You need larger sails for maximum speeds in deep downwind runs than you would need for reaching, so racers go big. Those big sail (11.0) are fine for the experts racing in 15-20 knots of wind, but try reaching in the same wind and it will spell disaster - too much board and too much sail.

I fun sail my formula board quite a bit and I rig pretty much for the wind average (inland lake sailing with gusty winds). When the winds are on the light to medium side, I am reaching, when they gust, I head up or run deep.

ducze
20th September 2011, 01:18 AM
Thanx guys. My question was to clarify as I just sold my old 160 and need to buy new one for 2012. I sail inland with 10,7 and 12 and use Z-Fin E0-. I know that reaching is killing on Formula board but sometimes U need to go downwind get some speed and than go upwind and it can be a problem on such a wide board.

Just wanted to check if I will be able to handle that ;-)

thanx

greg

Remi
20th September 2011, 08:03 AM
Hi Greg

Up wind and down wind will be not the problem, the only thing I can say is that more the board is wide in the tail more it start to be difficult on reach but this board is for racer and can see you use 12m so should be ok for you at 78kgs.

Race organizer usually don't put long reach when is windy so it will be a weapon in this case.

All the best

ducze
21st September 2011, 12:53 AM
OK guys,

Ordered 167 wide can't wait to try it...

Greg

bushfire.one
12th October 2011, 05:35 AM
Just taken delivery of a 167W. Looks like a real machine. Racing with it this weekend. Weight = 9.4kg.
The board shape at the rear is quite complex, both deckside and underneath - a real work of art!
A lot of nose rocker, and a bit of V under the mast track.
More impressions after the weekend.:)

ducze
13th October 2011, 01:34 AM
send us some more pics... board looks amazing

Greg

raffig
13th October 2011, 03:30 PM
More importantly, I think that many people are waiting for a decent report on the performance of this board before ordering...

bushfire.one
13th October 2011, 05:56 PM
Chris Ting (Mr VMG fins) has been out on his new 167W in light winds and is really impressed with the performance - check out the Seabreeze forum. A more detailed report after this weekend's racing.

bubi
13th October 2011, 08:39 PM
Dear Remi

Please let me ask you some questions about the new Starboard formula boards

I am surfing/racing formula in wind conditions from 10 -30 knots and I am 175cm and 88 kg (sails Severne Reflex II 12 & 11 m2)
(Most of the races we done last year the conditions was choppy 15-24 knots)
Which of the new Starboard formula board is the best choice for me?
(I can buy only one board!)

Thanking you in advance.


Best regards

Bubi

Remi
14th October 2011, 12:12 PM
Hi Bibi,

When condition is windy race director make generally the reach leg short, so the 167 Wide will be good. Up wind and down wind the board is Ok in windy condition, it's only the reach who can start be difficult.

All the best

bushfire.one
14th October 2011, 07:46 PM
First sail on the 167W - light 8-12 knots wind, with small short sharp chop. Sail : 10.7m NP RSR (on its last legs!) I weigh about 78kg.

It took about 10 mins to get comfortable but then I had a great time.

Very happy with;

(1) The board planes very easily and is very good at going through the lulls.
(2) So sweet downwind! The wide outboard position of the back foot seems excellent for getting deep and just feels comfortable (remember the winds were light). The board slides very easily over the chop.
(3) The chicken strap heel recesses seem to be good but it wasn't windy enough to really try them out. Getting the foot into the chicken straps seems easy.
(4)The lift generated by the fin and the wide tail is very good and allows to heel the board quite easily. You know if you are not doing this right if your back heel gets hit with the chop!
(5) Gybing seems no different than my narrower tailed formula boards (this is good)
(6) The board planes with the nose well clear of the chop.

I found that after about an hours sailing I had better performance by holding my weight a bit further aft than I was used to on other boards - I guess the wide tail carries weight better and allows the board to fly more efficiently.

All in all very positive first impressions - obviously a lot more tuning required (fin testing etc) but I'm very confident this board is a winner.:)

psicowind
17th October 2011, 04:04 PM
Hi bushfire, i am psicowind from italy, i wish order one 167 but im very confused, 167 or 167 wide???, i am 78 kg and go with NP evo 3 10,7, fin Zeta , in 8-18knots.
I like your 167w test in light wind, but i wish know how the 167w go in 12-18 knots????
And if is better than hwr in start of planning???
Remi said ,go to 167w , but i am afraid that is very hard in 12-18 knots of wind???

Please help me!!!!!!!!!!

thanks

psicowind

bushfire.one
17th October 2011, 05:25 PM
Hi psicowind,
I can't comment on the 167, because I haven't seen it, but I am very impressed with the 167 Wide. The windiest I used it in is only 15 knots, and it is surprisingly very easy to use - easy to get planing, great downwind and points very high. As you can read from Jesper's comments on the home page here the board is quite a big step forward from previous models. I'm about your weight and I reckon you can't go wrong with choosing the 167W as your board for this season.

psicowind
18th October 2011, 02:38 PM
Thank bushfire, i go to 167W!!!!!!

pfaffi
19th October 2011, 04:38 PM
Hi bushfire!
What fin you used?
What was your previous board? Do you use that fin in there? And in the previous you was happy with that fin?
BR
pfaffi

bushfire.one
19th October 2011, 07:12 PM
Hi pfaffi,
Most people who have bought a 167W in this area are using a VMG M73 fin (VMG fins are made in Sydney,Australia by Chris Ting). This fin was originally developed for the HWR but seem to work really well in the 167W. Chris is currently looking at testing some new fin ideas using the 167W.
My previous board was a SB 162 using a VMG K70 fin. This fin is probably not powerful enough for the 167W.

(sorry Remi - I'm not trying to hijack your forum!!:))

Remi
20th October 2011, 12:11 AM
Hi Bushfire,

No problems ;) enjoy the beast ;)

All the best

pfaffi
20th October 2011, 11:51 AM
Hello bushfire!
Thanks for answer!
In my experiance the 162 needed more powerful fin than HWR. If you tell 167w needs more powerful fin than 162 conclusion is that 167w needs much much more powerful fin than HWR. Correct?
How wide is the cutted Tip of your reco fin in mm ( I expect round 60 to 70mm)??
Cheers pfaffi

nonopr
20th October 2011, 08:11 PM
Reports so far in regard fins are that the same fin used in the HWR are been used with success in the 167W.
So far i have read 73-3, 72-2, 74-4, lets wait until the Professionals talk.
Jesper V used Kashy lets ask him what size.

Remi
21st October 2011, 12:23 AM
Hi All,

This board don't need super powerful fins to work very well but because is wider in the tail the board can handle more powerful fins with out problems.

With the normal Virus is already rock but can improve again the performances with the one for light winds who is more powerful.

All the best

NED136
21st October 2011, 01:47 AM
i did receive the normal virus 70 vin, hope to receive the 167w soon. the virus is in the tip app 45 mm, in the 162 really oke, but cannot compare to the 167w yet...

I also have a 75cm long uncut VMG (B), specially made for use in very light winds. So I am wondering how this will work in the 167w....

nonopr
21st October 2011, 06:45 AM
Reports so far in regard fins are that the same fin used in the HWR are been used with success in the 167W.
So far i have read 73-3, 72-2, 74-4, lets wait until the Professionals talk.
Jesper V used Kashy lets ask him what size.

Update:
Jesper V. Email me today saying that with his 11 and 12m North Warp 2011 he use with great success the 70cm Kashy and he went up to 72-2 but he says no more than that he need for the board.

Now lets forget about the price of the Kashy and all that Bull@#$%. This is great to know that a regular fin can help this board. No need to buy a new fin quiver as anything you have with in the range of 70-and 74 will be more than Ok with this board. Thank God..........

NED136
6th November 2011, 03:39 AM
Hi Remi,

Just received the new formula board. Looks really oke! Only one thing: on the board it says 167 (and not 167wide....).

In the shop: confusion, phonecalls etc.... as I ordered the 167wide. Measuring: one foot off is 90cm. And comparing the chickenstraps distance in between straps with some pics on the internet, the board looks like a 167wide.

So, question: do I now own a collectors item, a formula 167 which is actually a 167wide? Or does starboard stickers all the 167's and 167wides with the same 167 sticker?

For the rest, the board looks really great. And in the shop I thought the difference the the 162 is not that great, but comparing the board together, it really is different.

Hopefully, tomorrow there will be some wind to test the board with the virus 70 fin, I keep my fingers crossed.... and will probably post some pics and video in the next few days....

Remi
6th November 2011, 12:37 PM
Hi NED136,

If your board is 90cm @ 30cm and have the double step for the cut aways, for sure it's the Formula 167 Wide. Cobra probably put the wrong sticker on the board but in this cas this will not affect the performances of the board ;)

Have fun and keep us up date.

All the best

pfaffi
6th November 2011, 01:33 PM
Hi Guys!
Nobody out there to give is more first impressions of his first runs?
And first comparison runs against HWR, 161, 162 ??
Wait for feedback, not so cold in Europe, in Austria we are still on water.
BR pfaffi

NED136
7th November 2011, 02:08 AM
Hi Remi, yes it is 90 cm and has the double step.... so its a wide ;-)

Pfaffi (and others): I did sail today in 6 - 8/9 knots with the 167wide and virus 70. Difficult to say anything yet about up wind and downwind or anything else as the wind was really low.

But one thing is for sure: this board planes very very quickly in almost no wind. I have an 162 and would probably not go out expecting not to plane in such marginal winds. But I had to go, to try this new board. And amazingly with some pumping I was planing even when I hardly felt any wind. I am almost 100kg, sailing with NP evoII 12m: to get planning I needed probably 8 knots or even less. And to stay on the plane: 6 knots? I have to guess but it is amazing.

It accelerates in gusts quickly. The board is also really easy to rail, and if you do so it stays there. I tried the heel recesses / chicken straps: with these marginal wind it was not a real good test but anyway: it takes a little effort to get used to as you really have to step into the recesses. Which I normally don't have to do, therefor I had to look a bit where and how to place my backfoot. But sailing downwind is easy and feels almost like a normal outside footstrap.

Conclusion after 2 hours: I was very happy with the light wind performance. And i am wondering what will happen if I use the VMG B 75cm uncut or the virus 70 lightwind fin in light wind. I did shoot some footage withe the gopro camera, so will probably post this soon somewhere.

Pieter

pfaffi
9th November 2011, 12:01 PM
Thx pieter for that impressive report!
How is your 70cm fin raked? Power or speed (angle leading edge)?
Are you surfing with GPS? If yes pls tell me you lowest average upwind speed where the combo feels running free? (With my HWR 90kg 12sqm I cant go under 26km/h to be competitive).
BR pfaffi

Remi
9th November 2011, 01:27 PM
Hi Pfafi,

The GPS will not help you, the big difference with the HWR is the angle up wind and down wind and of course in less wind. At the end that make a big difference ;)

All the best

panos
9th November 2011, 05:06 PM
Hi has enyone test virus fin in 162 board i am 100kgr and 1,95h
Thanks

pfaffi
9th November 2011, 10:31 PM
Hi Remi!
You are right its the angle but.... if you like to go better angle in marginal winds you have to go lower board speed because of the apparent wind angle.
In our testing my friend on bigger Formula board than HWR can go up to 3km/h /(app. 2 knots) slower in optimum railing position and by this higher angle than me.
BR pfaffi

NED136
10th November 2011, 01:40 AM
Hi pfaffi,

numbers on the virus fin:
23,5/56,5/122
I don't know the rake, but it does not look very upright compared to other fins.

Yesterday I surfed some more in 6 - 8 knots, so very light winds again. Looks like the front of the board is a little thicker, with more volume in the nose compared to the 162. So tacking is a easy. The board is very stable. And again very quick to plane and staying on the plane. The ride feels very quick but I did not take a GPS with me yet. On youtube there is some footage.

It looks like this Friday the wind will be 14 - 20 knots, so will try the board with NP 10.7 and will see what the performance in up- en downwind will be.

@Panos: I am also almost 100kg and 1,96m and have a 162 so maybe I will test this fin this Friday if a have some time left.

panos
10th November 2011, 03:36 PM
Thanks ned136 i am waiting your feedback

NED136
14th November 2011, 07:03 PM
Last Friday, sailed again with the 167w, wind 13 - 17 knots, NP EVO III and virus 70. Up & downwind is very good. The board is very fast. In chop and with 16 - 17 kn. it is a little bit more difficult to handle, probably because of the carbon and wide of the board. The nose doesn't stick in any waves when going downwind, the V in the first part of the board helps.

The chicken straps really are very easy going downwind, really much much better then one strap in the middle of the board, especially because you have something to place your foot against, just like the railing of the board. The only things is that I felt a bit chicken to get in the chicken straps as first of all you really step in to the straps / the hole which gives a little bit of a locked in feel. When your in the strap this is really oke, but getting in the strap going downwind, very fast in 17 knots and flying over the waves, it takes some experience to do it smoothly and without fear..... especially when the water is getting really cold (as it is in Holland at the moment...).
Vid on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_kHeQiyPxw

www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBOyPv1R8z8

OZI
16th November 2011, 05:30 PM
I had the new 167W out last weekend for the first time. Tried the footstraps in front/front, didnt like this position and put them in front/back. Back foot straps I had forward but may move them back. Overall board was flying in light winds ( 8-14 knots). Using Severne 11.0 and F4 fins CRad 72-2cm formula fin. Planing in 8 knots with the 11.0 (with a bit of pumping to begin with). I dont own a 12.0 so dont how that would have gone but the 11.0 felt great. Thinking that because of the 90cm wide tail the 11.0 will go better than if I had the old HWR. Then again maybe a 12.0 would as well. This board if definately a winner and possibly be the best formula board SB have made, cannot wait to try it in 15-20 knots.

rus-12
18th November 2011, 12:31 PM
Hi Remi,
Could you please explain the words "more power" in context "Formula 167 Wide: the model with more power and more lightwind emphasis. Ideal for medium weight and heavy weight riders."
What does it mean? How does the board having "more power" behave? How to define: this board has the power and other doeasn't?

Our Russian readers are interesting in this.

Best regards,
Alexander Drouzhinin

RUS-12

Remi
19th November 2011, 10:24 AM
Hi RUS-12

Just that the 167 Wide give you more performances in lighter winds than the 167 due to the fact the board is more wide at 30cm (90 vs 84). So more power.

The 167 is already way better than the HWR or LWR in all conditions.

All the best

pfaffi
17th December 2011, 01:24 AM
Hi 167 Wide Guys!
Any new aspects regarding the 167W?
Best sail size (does it like a 12.0??)
Any new fin conclusions? (larger fins better? or is eg. still a R13 working with 11.0??)
THX pfaffi

SeanAUS120
19th December 2011, 06:48 AM
Hi guys,

I've had a chance to have a few quick rides on the 167w over the last 2 weekends. Quite interesting... a bit different to what I was initially expecting from the pictures I'd seen.

First session was racing in Sydney in 6-9 knots with 11.5m and an old VMG fin (my good fins are still stuck in customs) and mast track in middle, straps in front holes. Planes super early, and the really suprising thing is that I didn't feel under-finned at all. On the HWR I'd probably want to switch up to a 73 or 75 cutdown for lightwinds. Almost not sure if I need anything bigger than a powerful 70 in this board! (more testing is needed to confirm that statement!). The board definitely feels a bit like a truck going upwind. It's quite responsive to foot pressure, but it feels very BIG under your feet and is a little bit sluggish in the gybes compared to the HWR in SUPER light winds (understandably though, with the tail size increase).

Next session I took it out in the surf in about 25 knots with the 10.5m. Nice pic of me getting worked here -

http://s1-05.twitpicproxy.com/photos/large/473678195.jpg

I didn't have the chicken straps on ... ran the mast track 2cm forward of middle, straps still in the front holes. The board upwind handles VERY nicely with the extra tail width; you get so much more leverage so you don't really feel so overpowered in strong winds. This day I was out at a surf beach with decent sized waves; so out the back there was 3-4m swells not breaking. The 167w keeps the nose quite flat and is really easy to manage in steep waves. Actually, with the chicken strap cutout section, it's quite nice if you forget to put straps on, as you have quite a lot of grip with just bare feet. The thing you have to watch though, is you are now putting A LOT of pressure on the fin, whereas on the old style, with a flat board there, you hardly put any pressure on the fin. If you are not careful and push too hard on the chicken-strap rail, you actually can lift the board out of the water and crash! So I think you need to be mindful of how much pressure you put on the fin when you're in overpowered conditions.

Based on 2 sessions, I think this board could be a winner, and I think you can just stick with the fins of previous years - ie, 70 for most conditions and maybe a 72/73 for ultra light winds with a 12m.

troll
19th December 2011, 11:49 PM
What exactly do you mean by "cut down" fins?

NED136
20th December 2011, 01:28 AM
@ Troll,

Cut down: p.e. 75cm fin cut down to 70 cm - tip of the 75 cm fin, 5 cm is removed.

@ paffi:
I sailed some more sessions: still like the 70 cm virus fin a lot. The 167wide is very good in early planning. Especially when the water is flat the board is really quick and easy to sail in every direction. In very steep high chop and high winds (18+ knots) it becomes a lot more technical / difficult probably because of the carbon / stifness and the wide of the board (although when I look at the pic of Sean... I won't complain about choppy conditions any more ;-) ).

I think that the direction is that in Formula Windsurfing competition you more or less need to boards, depending on conditions. One very wide like the 167w for 7 - 20 knots, and one for choppy, high wind conditions (161 or 167?).

nonopr
22nd December 2011, 05:10 AM
Question to Remi or anyone that has already tested his 167 wide.
Where should I put the footstarps? front holes or back holes???
Thanks

NED136
23rd December 2011, 02:44 AM
Hi nonopr, I have them in the back holes. For me this is the best setting with the wind / water conditions so far. Be sure to tighten the screws of the chicken straps a lot as they otherwise twist very easily during sailing which makes it harder to put your foot in.

Remi
23rd December 2011, 07:30 AM
Hi Nonopr,

This is personal set up and depend of racers style.

In light to medium wind I put all of them in the back with a Virus 70 (normal one), and when the wind get over 20 knots, I put all of them in front with the same fin and also move the mast base in front by 1/2cm depend how much wind you get and choppy water.

This board in my opinion don't need very powerfull fin to deliver great performances in light winds. Actually use one fin for all conditions and deliver performances really higher than HWR & LWR.

Try this set up, it might work if you have the same style as me ;)

Hope this help

Remi
23rd December 2011, 07:31 AM
Hi Nonopr,

This is personal set up and depend of racers style.

In light to medium wind I put all of them in the back with a Virus 70 (normal one), and when the wind get over 20 knots, I put all of them in front with the same fin and also move the mast base in front by 1/2cm depend how much wind you get and choppy water.

This board in my opinion don't need very powerfull fin to deliver great performances in light winds. Actually use one fin for all conditions and deliver performances really higher than HWR & LWR.

Try this set up, it might work if you have the same style as me ;)

Hope this help

ducze
24th December 2011, 12:13 AM
Hi Remi,

Does the new board 167W comes with the fin?

Greg

nonopr
24th December 2011, 12:42 AM
No fin with these boards.

nonopr
24th December 2011, 12:47 AM
Hi nonopr, I have them in the back holes. For me this is the best setting with the wind / water conditions so far. Be sure to tighten the screws of the chicken straps a lot as they otherwise twist very easily during sailing which makes it harder to put your foot in.

Thanks for the recommendation NED 136 . I notice this already whe I screw in the straps. I had some extra K9 Anti-twist plugs and solve that problem.
Dont know why they did not include more of those with the board. Small details make a better product.

nonopr
24th December 2011, 12:49 AM
Hi Nonopr,

This is personal set up and depend of racers style.

In light to medium wind I put all of them in the back with a Virus 70 (normal one), and when the wind get over 20 knots, I put all of them in front with the same fin and also move the mast base in front by 1/2cm depend how much wind you get and choppy water.

This board in my opinion don't need very powerfull fin to deliver great performances in light winds. Actually use one fin for all conditions and deliver performances really higher than HWR & LWR.

Try this set up, it might work if you have the same style as me ;)

Hope this help

Thanks Remi.

ducze
24th December 2011, 03:43 AM
No fin with this boards.

Thank You Nonopr
Have great Xmas

Greg

nonopr
25th December 2011, 03:38 AM
My Boards for 2012 Season. The best of the best.

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/407170_10151062155710184_779965183_21720591_602064 865_n.jpg

ducze
25th December 2011, 11:39 PM
That's pornography nonopr ;)
Have great xmas

Greg

bubi
6th January 2012, 06:23 AM
Dear Remi

I received my 167wide yesterday and it’s real very very wide …but a real work of art!

Let me ask you some questions about the recommended fins for this board

Which is the ideal fin rake in degrees (Z and Virus fins) you tested the 167 wide?
(I am 175cm and 88 kg)

In light wind conditions?
In strong winds? (>20 knots)
Choppy water?
And in waves?

Thanking you in advance.

Best regards

Bubi

nonopr
9th January 2012, 03:31 AM
I finally got to use my 167 wide yesterday. What a dream place it was.
Due to the place I went I had limited options in equipment to take with me so I took my Gaastra Vapor 10m 2011 that I trust and two fins but I kept only one in the board the entire day as it was my first time.
The fin I choose was Zfin 70cm as recommended.
The Board feels small for the size for sure and upwind I was in a very high angle but still needed to figure out if I wanted to go high or fast so I tried high all day and it points high easily but the speed I need to work on that. It felt good but not good enough yet. It is a very wide board so I need to ride a few more times to figure out.
Strap position is very comfortable.
One thing I can tell you is that the board is a machine and fast downwind, Very fast and I was surprised about that speed in just my first downwind leg. The more I went down the faster it got and very loose on top of the water but felt very safe even on extreme angles and wind speed.
The contour of the board tail is a bit awkward but after sailing it a few more times i found the groove and it felt very comfortable the position on the chicken strap and out this is the first board i feel I can race in the chicken strap and feel I am not taking any speed off the throttle, I was max out in the chicken strap and i felt i did not have to use the outside position in many cases.
Upwind the board feels great but the place I went although is was a very flat place when the wind picked up and the wind chop was there and the current entering the bay was there also the board needed to be ridden high and dry of the chop, not always successful at that i felt i might needed a 72cm fin to be able to counter attack that condition.
Between my friends we did 3 informal races to a buoy upwind we found and it was about 17-20 minute races upwind and down to the spot on the beach where we had our equipment set up. To my surprise I took second in the first race and it was on the downwind leg do to the amazing speed this board has. The rest the races I tried to go even higher upwind on the first leg and fail to keep a good speed but I felt at that point I have maxed out of fin power and the chop I mention before was to hunt me.
At the end the board is a great board I just need to keep training on it more.
Hope this review helps.
10m Sail Gaastra Vapor 2011 and Gaastra 100 mast 2011.
Z eos-Fin 70cm uncut 2011.
Mast Track at Recommended.
Foot-straps all the way back front and back.
My weight is 80kg(179lbs).
Wind was 17 knots steady.
Water was flat to small steep short chop due to current coming into bay in the channel.

turco
31st January 2012, 10:49 PM
This board isnīt fast upwind.
My sail: North Wartp F 2011.
Fins: Z 74; kashy 71; kashy 70; Z 70

mark h
1st February 2012, 12:40 AM
My Boards for 2012 Season. The best of the best.

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/407170_10151062155710184_779965183_21720591_602064 865_n.jpg


Very nice:) iS97/101/117w ?

plasma180
1st February 2012, 07:30 AM
This board isnīt fast upwind.
My sail: North Wartp F 2011.
Fins: Z 74; kashy 71; kashy 70; Z 70

Hello,

why, whats the problem?

Thanks

Qkito
23rd February 2012, 11:16 AM
Any news??

SeanAUS120
8th March 2012, 06:02 AM
Hi guys,

Interesting to hear that some of you aren't finding the new board fast. We've done a LOT of racing on it down here in Australia and Asia, definitely it's a huge advantage over previous boards from all the testing we've done.

If anyone has any questions on setup/fins or comparisons to older Starboard models let me know ... I've had a solid 4 months racing on the board already... so fire away ;-)

raffig
8th March 2012, 03:29 PM
Hi,
The board is definitely faster in all senses and points really high, BUT a few riders over here have found it really "sticky" in order to get it into planning mode, particularly in marginal conditions (8-9 knots). Contrary to some of previous comments, it does take a lot of effort to get it onto a plane! I am not sure if a bigger fin would help, I just tested it with a Kashy 70S.

Anyone felt the same?

Cheers,
Rafa

Brett Morris
9th March 2012, 12:40 AM
167W is a step up in performance. A bit more technical but definitely faster around the course.
It is that simple!

SeanAUS120
9th March 2012, 01:17 AM
Hi,
a few riders over here have found it really "sticky" in order to get it into planning mode, particularly in marginal conditions (8-9 knots).

I think this is to do with the deeper cutouts; they seem to create a bit of a 'suck' under the board. That being said, I haven't had too much trouble with getting planing in very light winds, and I'm not using a 12m anymore ... It is definitely slower in the gybes with this extra width I believe and I think you have to always pump it from outside the straps when you try to plane (ie, not putting your front foot in the front strap, as this seems to dig the windward rail quite a bit on such a big board).

The key is with this board is that the tail is so powerful it generates a LOT of lift from the fin. So you don't need a big fin at all, in fact, you want just a really FAST fin.... I've been using a 70cm in all wind conditions very successfully and will probably go with that all season (how nice is one fin only!). I see a few guys on the Z's are using 71cut in all conditions and on the VMG like I am using a lot are going for 70 or up to a 73 ... so there's no need to use anything bigger than a few cm cutdown .. it's just drag and actually makes the board very hard to control downwind when the wind gets up....

berg
14th March 2012, 07:12 PM
Sean, or someone else

I have the virus 72 and the HWR, what is the next step to get better upwind. I am no match at a PD with the same size fin(kashi). Is it the kashi or can I tune something els to get better upwind. The virus rake is 90 degrees on the back of the fin.

Hope to hear something
Thanks in advance
Berg

NED136
19th March 2012, 08:15 PM
@ Sean /Raffig: I also have no sticky feeling at all with this board (5 months of sailing now). In my opinion it planes very quickly, even with my weight of 97kg. I use the virus 70cm and NP evo 12m in 8 - 9 knots. I never pump on to the plane in the straps, never did before on other boards in marginal conditions.

Maybe the sticky feeling on your board (Raffig) is related with you sail set up / the downforce of the sail pressing the board to much down?

@ Brett: I don't agree the board is more technical. I think the board is a lot less technical when going up and down wind.

OZI
22nd March 2012, 09:59 AM
I must admit I did feel the board was a little sucky/sticky and a little hard to pump onto the plane when I first got it. I then changed to a new ZF1 S- This fin is awesome on this board and I have had no problems since. Also I think the 167W takes a little bit of getting used to pumping the board up onto the plane in light winds.

berg
18th May 2012, 03:53 PM
after a few months of formula I like to know if there is experience withe the rake of the fin. Should it be 0 degrees( at the back of the fin)? like to hear

greetz from Holland