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G
12th March 2007, 12:58 AM
Hallo,
great to see Starboard has the biggest slalom range on the market but it it get me crazy for the right choice!!
I'm around 82 kg , expert sailor , regional racer .
I need a beast to fight vs a couple of Sx M ..... We use to sail slalom when pretty windy so the 101 would be the choice . It can easily works if we consider only training days BUT when it comes racing situations something changes.
Wind can shift , increase or decrease while you're going to start ( !! ) , figure 8 (most of the time) or pure downwind slalom , crowd close to the starting line , replacement need to attack or defence your position . Slalom is all about ....
The best thing would be having all the range ready to make used or (much more common and cheaper!) having a very good allround board that doesn't give you problem before and during races (like every isonic model seems to be) .
So now,in a given sails range,should i go smaller or bigger ?
Thank you

P.S. is it true that 101 is too low in the water while 111 is freer ?

o2bnme
12th March 2007, 03:37 AM
What size sails will you be using on the board?

I have an iSonic 105 (basically the same as the 101). I find I can take it out with an 8.0 if the conditions keep the 8.0 fully powered up. But I only weigh 65 kg. The minute the winds let up, the 8.0 creates a very unstable situation. I find I expend too much energy sailing when the 8.0 isn't powered up.

So, if you want to use the 101 with an 8.0-8.5 make sure you are in powered to overpowered conditions. With smaller sails (6.6 - 5.6), I find that the board can float through lulls with easy. I'm usually on a smaller sail than most sailors with different boards. And I'm usually planing before them. A fellow sailor who is usually about the same speed as me was on a 150L board with a 7.9m2 sail. I was on my iS105 with a 6.6 V8. I was about as fast as him in the lighter winds, but when it picked up, I was markedly faster than him...and I was able to get on a plane sooner.

The specs for the Sx M reads like a match for the 111 but with less volume. At your weight, my gut tells me you should be looking at the 111. If you were my weight, I might be saying 101. You would be able to keep the 111 in control in stronger winds than me.

It really comes down to what sail sizes you plan on using. I've held my 105 down with a 4.8, but when the winds died a hair, the 8.0 a good match (same day). In chop, at my weight, I find I'm still learning how to keep the board's speed in chop. This might not be an issue for a larger person.

I should add... in the one race I've used my iS105 in, I was consistently the first person off the line. I could get the iS105 up on a plane much easier than my competitors. I love this board for that.

ThierryP
13th March 2007, 12:57 PM
Quote:

" is it true that 101 is too low in the water while 111 is freer ?"

I have had a lot of wind since I bought my 115, so I have not had a chance to use it much, but I have used my 105 plenty, and I can testify that it does sit too low in the water. Everything else (apart from jibing) about this board is fantastic!
A 111 should be used in less wind than a 101, so there should be naturally fewer instances of the nose catching in swell or steep chop.
Wind is getting lighter, so I might be able to give you a comparision within a couple of weeks, depending on actual wind conditions.
Best of luck with your choice,

Thierry

G
13th March 2007, 04:37 PM
Thank you guys,
remember that 2007 isonic are a bit different than 2006. Larger tail,different aspect ratios and so on....
So some dedicated adviced will be more than welcome

Remi
13th March 2007, 07:04 PM
Hi G,

Give us more information :

Your size sails and fins you use

All the best

G
13th March 2007, 07:23 PM
Hi Remi,
180 cm for kg 82, trained for regional races , 9,0-7,8 Warp 2006 , 7,2 rs5 , N5 6,3.
Usually we go out for slalom when too windy for our 161 but as I've said above this season we could race in 16 kns....
Already own other 2 slalom boards (bigger and smaller) that don't match good the rules!!!
I'm listening Remi.....

Ian Fox
14th March 2007, 08:34 AM
Hi G,

If you want to maintain some serious light wind 7.8 and typical 9.0 conditions performance, then the decision to take iS111 over 101 is pretty easy. You will also find the 111 is not so bad with 7.2m and even 6.3 (although those sizes are more typically the sweetspot for 101/82kg ) - in fact, even the 122 (not in consideration, but useful as a reference) behaves better in "overpowered" or choppy conditions that everyone expects, so don't be too concerned the size of the 111 is a handicap. Most especially in race conditions, where it's critical to be fast "all the time", rather than "faster some of the time". Moreso if Fig 8 as the upwind leg is usually more to gain/lose than downwind, and the upwind ofen tests the planing threshold of the combo more than the downwind..

When pushed hard into overpower mode, the 111 will tend to ride more across the chop than the 101 - in those same conditions. This means a number of subtle things, but in summary for this discussion, the 111 will benefit from a more "overpower" style of rider technique when ridden in conditions that would be more typical for 101- that's to say, if you're the type of rider who can really put the power down and just blast thru, then the "disadvantage" of using the larger 111 in 101 conditions is less.

Re Thierry's comments : how low is "too low" depends on a lot of things, in fact in technical analysis of a design "riding too low" usually implies a board that is not riding "free enough", rather than a board that may not have enough nose scoop/lift/rocker (so 2 different attributes). In the case of the 101, the nose lift is low, but the board rides moderately free (almost to "freeride" potential). the jibe on the 101 is also noticeably better (freer/more instictive) than the previous 105.

Cheers ~ Ian

G
15th March 2007, 01:19 AM
Thank you Ian,
when we talk about med size board as 111 is all depends from what point of view we consider the question.
If I search low wind attitude of course i know what I need,and viceversa.
Now,for me,the problem is choose just 1 board that help me from 14-16 kns to everything in a slalom course.
Do the 111 have enough high wind control (helped by a small fin) that permits me to not worry of the board while racing?
Do the 101 have enough low end to keep me going when in the pack and "only" 14-16 kns ?!
Do the 101 perform well on a 7,8 Warp 2006 or this sail will push more than I need the board's nose down?

Ian Fox
15th March 2007, 06:36 AM
Hi G,

Although on paper the decision might look tight, when as many "variables" for your specific circumstances (inc having a higher wind slalom board) and conditions are factored into this particular choice, the decision (based on what we see) is pretty easy in favor of 111.

Q1 =Do the 111 have enough high wind control (helped by a small fin) that permits me to not worry of the board while racing?
A1= Yes, with the right rider style/technique (not difficult, but to get the very best requires "commitment" to load the rig and board) the 111 will most likely suprise you in a very positive way about how far into the mid/hi wind slaom range it can go and still be effective, most especially as a race weapon under "always varying" racing conditions (as you specified)

Q2= Do the 101 have enough low end to keep me going when in the pack and "only" 14-16 kns ?!
A2= Yes, but it become more critical to rider skill (etc), that's to say , obviously you will meet "marginal" conditions earlier (going down in wind power) on 101 than 111 : so with 111 the "reserve" of performance in failing power situations is better.

Q3 =Do the 101 perform well on a 7,8 Warp 2006 or this sail will push more than I need the board's nose down?
A3= Again depends to some extent on rider technique (size/style), because as the sail starts to overload the front, the rider can counter with more load onto the back and the result can be pretty good !!
But in general, with 7.8m, the less risky, more balanced (less leveraged) choice will be the 111.

In choppy "real world" racing conditions, the speed difference is not as large as you might think between the bigger board ( blasting over the top of chop with more impact but also more tolerant of less careful trim ) and the smaller board ( less impact, less drag - and theoretically MORE control in higher wind/chop - but also less tolerant of innaccurate trim (which is more likely on the smaller board when the smaller board is overpowered with the same size sail ).
Long sentence, but you get the idea..

Please let us know if you have any further questions.

Cheers ~ Ian

G
15th March 2007, 08:00 PM
oh yes Ian, you're very clear.From all has been told 111 is the one but,you know what,this morning we have new adv from Association and we will slalom just when at least 19/20 kns (they seem to give more emphas to formula).
It make me switch for 101 hoping to not have a "scary" machine when well powered up and hard chop in front or across me....
If you have any adv to right trim in this situation,please,let me know.
thank you

G
28th March 2007, 10:17 PM
Finally I've found both 101 and 111 from a very far dealer.We stay here talking about what's the right choice for long time but when you decide to buy the board it seems there's no way to get it because of our national distributor strategy......
Anyway.
Considering my 82 kg and a very normal attitude to keep the board ride,would you please tell me the wind and sail range of both board ? Note that I'd like to know not the wider spectrum but just hte ideal.
Thank you all

geo
29th March 2007, 04:11 PM
I can't believe this. I must admit racing is really a world apart. I am about the weight of G, but, in "at least 19/20 kns", I'd never dream of choosing anything bigger and wider than a S85/i87 or S100/95/i94. Guess that an iS87 with a 6.5 or so would kill everything else in the water in such nice conditions.
Don't get me wrong: I'm just guessing and asking, not stating!

G
29th March 2007, 05:12 PM
Hi geo,please note that in the real world slalom racing is raced in gusty wind.Unfortunately not many racing sites are similar to Pozo, France or Maui and regional/national racers aren't so good as top sailors are.
In order of this easy and helpfull stuff results much more agreable then different philosophy combos.
I had a lot of doubts too in these last days but I've choosen to bet for allround combo.
I believe isonics can give me the confidence I can go bigger than what it really needs ( from what Ian states ) .
When I read that isonics are boards that doesn't comunicate with the rider I smile because all what I need during a slalom is being fast (possibly fastest) with no regard for the stuff (control,speed,jibe,accelleration,ecc....) .
Racing requires different priorities than blasting around with a couple of guys.
That's just mu guess.

o2bnme
29th March 2007, 08:17 PM
In 20 knots last weekend, a friend tried my iSonic 105 with a 5.6 Hucker. He ran to the outer buoy and back (we just finished club racing on a figure 8 course). He knew he hadn't unlocked all the speed in the board, but I could see he was a lot faster than I was on it. He is 86 kg. I'm 65 kg. He used my sail for the testdrive.

During the races, I was slightly faster on my iSonic 105 than he was on his Hypersonic 105. He has an older Gaastra. I had my Hucker.

G
3rd August 2007, 05:14 PM
Hallo people,
after having used my 111 lot of times I'll try to report my opinion.
I've used the board with 6,8 the great part of time but have done couple of sailing in 7,8 too.The fin was just one: 37 microfin .
This season I'm very trained and,for more info,I own a smaller slalom board. In order to our championship rules we go for slalom in at least 17 kns and we can register just one board for it.This made me decide to sail only in 111 and not with the smaller one.
I had the opportunity to really push hard and keep out every aspect of the board.
When really light (gusty 12 kns) I'm not the best planner with my 7,8 rsr but once the wind get stable there's no problem at all.Accelleration is nice (THE SAME of F2 sx M) and control is great.In this range no particular sailor's attitudes are requested.Jibes are a dream with strong attitude to stay in planning mode after having jibed.
When the wind increase (14-20 kns) you can stay in 7,8 easily.The nose NEVER lift up (you just have to right trim the mast base) while sailing at the right way to not put the board into the chop! Now I understand what Ian said when stated that you need an active style for best ride this board.Just close the gap,put your foot into the footstraps and PUSH !! The board will lift you up anf flies over the water in any sea condition.
When really powered up (20-32 kns) I switch for 6,8 warp 2007,just move 1 cm forward the mast base,and play the game.other boards start to fly away and need to reduce fin or sail but I continue my sailing day in the same combo.Sometimes I should reduce the fin but I didn't it to test....
In those condition you must stay concentrate but NEVEr give up.Only the powered style will pay off!I had some problem to find the rear strap (like many other F2 riders) but nothing special.Control is the best part of sailing in 111 this condition.
In the beginning of season I've heard too much about isonics speed and was scared but today I can state that IF it is so starboard regain the gap in control, accelleration after jibe and "replacement" attitudes.Please remember that competitions are between 2 marks....

just my 2 cents

Ken
3rd August 2007, 11:08 PM
Ian, G,

Interesting discussion,

I too am trying to decide on which isonic to buy, and from a few months of reading various threads on the boards, I think I will go for the 111 (or its 2008 replacement).

I weigh 80 kg and sail inland in Texas, so steady winds don't exist. A normal spring or fall windy day = winds ranging from 10 to 25 knots. Bigger boards are generally the call in order to get through the 10 knot holes.

For free sailing, I have a F160 which I use up to about 20 knots, then I change down to a 105L Hi Fly Move with a 6.5.

I am thinking the isonic 111 will fit the gap just right. I would expect to use my 7.5 most of the time, but want the board to carry my 6.5 and 8.5 as well. I race Formula and on rare occasions, slalom, but most of my sailing is just fast freesailing.

Does the 111 sound like a reasonable choice for me?

Ken
3rd August 2007, 11:09 PM
Ian, G,

Interesting discussion,

I too am trying to decide on which isonic to buy, and from a few months of reading various threads on the boards, I think I will go for the 111 (or its 2008 replacement).

I weigh 80 kg and sail inland in Texas, so steady winds don't exist. A normal spring or fall windy day = winds ranging from 10 to 25 knots. Bigger boards are generally the call in order to get through the 10 knot holes.

For free sailing, I have a F160 which I use up to about 20 knots, then I change down to a 105L Hi Fly Move with a 6.5.

I am thinking the isonic 111 will fit the gap just right. I would expect to use my 7.5 most of the time, but want the board to carry my 6.5 and 8.5 as well. I race Formula and on rare occasions, slalom, but most of my sailing is just fast freesailing.

Does the 111 sound like a reasonable choice for me?

G
6th August 2007, 06:09 PM
Hey Ken,
I did it!
Usually I race Formula and, at my weight, 111 gives me any option when slalom is the call . I won't go bigger than 7,8 (at least if I'm in competiton) and no smaller than 6,3 .
The board will easily carry a 8,... but just for fast reaching in freesailing but then you will need a bigger fin so....
When really windy I don't like so much reduce sail area and the 6,8 leaves the board better balanced than 6,3 (it's just my point of view) .
For having a better idea you need to know what you have to do with your slalom board and then decide. I mean, 101 would be a good choice as well in such condition.
How about your training?
Do you wanna compete in slalom?
Do you like go big or not?
Are you "active" on board?
Are you familiar with marks?
How many sails/fins you own for a slalom board?
Do you use to sail slalom alone?
..and so on...

Maybe Ian can better suggest you than me.

Madis
11th August 2007, 03:00 AM
101!

Ian Fox
11th August 2007, 07:12 AM
Hi Ken,

For sweetspotting 7.5m with 80kg and performance range to 6.5m-8.5m on patchy inland conditions, iS111 is the "1".

Although I'm also a very big fan of the 101, with the inland holes you're describing, the better choice is the iS111, it's almost the ideal size "down" from FW boards too (for around 80kg racers choosing a second higher wind race/slalom board), delivering a very complimentary range with practical but not such excessive overlap that it costs you too much in the hi wind range.

Cheers ~ Ian