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View Full Version : Where is the carbon in JP slalom ?


Jonny
1st November 2011, 10:23 PM
Can anyone tell me ? Or is there any :)

Unregistered
3rd November 2011, 04:27 AM
I thought same with a broken Kode !! The "carbon" in bottom laminate looked thin enough to have been painted on !!

Its time there was an investigation into exactly what we are buying !!! Nobody seems bothered paying £1500+ for a board as long as its light !!! They are lighter with no carbon in ??? Come on starboard ; tell us some figures abot the actual carbon content of "carbon" boards >>>>>>

Remi
3rd November 2011, 09:38 AM
Hi Unregistered,

Sorry for your broken Kode but you can be sure that it was Carbon, we never do this strange fiber glass paint in black and call it Carbon. It's UD Carbon 80g + 60g Glass.

All the best

davide
3rd November 2011, 10:46 AM
I thought same with a broken Kode !! The "carbon" in bottom laminate looked thin enough to have been painted on !!

You don't realized how "magical" is composite constructions. The laminate of a board is extremely thin. In the old days I built non sandwich boards using 2 layers of 6oz + 1 9oz glass + unidirectional strip. Those were enough to guarantee integrity and you could actually see the thickness in the glass laminate (and feel the weight of the board!). Enter sandwich construction and the number of layers goes down dramatically, and the thickness of the laminate looks "scary thin".

Examples: My Mike's Lab Course Board is almost ten years old. Built in composite with 1 layer on each side of the 2mm hard foam using 4oz Carbon. Still structurally strong.

My old Rogue Wave B&J was 10 years old when I sold it two years ago. Still going strong, and built with 1 layer/side 6oz carbon plus a reinforcement in the tail.

In both cases the glass/carbon skin looks "as thin as paper".

And keep in mind: the wood sandwich material itself is just 0.6 mm! Equivalent of a thick cardboard.

John1
4th November 2011, 05:30 PM
What do "biaxial Carbon and laminated in multiaxial construction" mean?
Are the highquality Starboards constructed in this manner?
JJ

Unregistered
5th November 2011, 12:02 AM
Think you`ll find Davide there is only one laminate "layer" to the outside of the so called coremat sandwich nowadays... Last year I badly damaged a Quad on underside (no fault of board) and was surprised to find the coremat (higher density foam) in direct contact with EPS core ??? Could be wrong but I had a good look and could find no "inner" laminate; glass/carbon or whatever.. There was the coremat and then the outside "shell" which was thin but if you want a light board ????

Should be interesting (and not difficult) to calculate the actual amounts of Carbon/kevlar/technora in a board..
We know volume (???) we know the weight, and density of foam is fairly easy to find ???

What does an EPS core weigh ??? Reckon it represents 90% of board weight ??? Perhaps its why manufacturers aren`t too keen on publishing accurate volume ???

John1
5th November 2011, 06:14 PM
So next time I`m damaging a board, I can cut it down in transversal slides, investigate the differents layers from outside layers and into to the core. Generally: If it`s not corresponding to the information we got when byuing the boards, I think we have a big problem.
JJ

Remi
6th November 2011, 12:31 PM
Hi Unregistered,

Just make you up date on this, it's not possible to have EPS glue with only resin to the PVC, we always use fiber glass, so Starboard and I think the other Manufactures use Fiber glass also, other wise the board will delaminate immediately.

For your info the EPS is 15.5 Kg/m3

Hope this help

All the best

Unregistered
6th November 2011, 09:25 PM
That might be case Remi and perhaps I was mistaken BUT (honestly) I could see no evidence of an inner laminate between the higher density foam and EPS core.. (On a Kode under hull) ?????????

I was surprised aswell.. I`d always assumed there was a laminate layer (Glass/carbon/kevlar or what ever) a thin dense foam (perhaps 3mm?) and then outer laminate. (Glass/carbon/wood or whatever) Thought it was wehere sandwich construction got its name. (ie denser foam sandwiched between 2 laminates ????)

This did not appear to be case , but I`ll have another look..

Unregistered
6th November 2011, 09:34 PM
On EPS core weight

1 m cubed represents 1000 litres volume . (I think ?)

If EPS weighs 15kg per Metre cubed

a 100 litre board will have a core weight of approx 1.5 kg and has a total weight of approx 7kg ???

Therfore weight of glass/carbon/wood/dense foam ?? will represent approx 5.5kg ???

Perhaps some builders would like to comment ????

davide
6th November 2011, 10:36 PM
Think you`ll find Davide there is only one laminate "layer" to the outside of the so called coremat sandwich nowadays... Last year I badly damaged a Quad on underside (no fault of board) and was surprised to find the coremat (higher density foam) in direct contact with EPS core ??? Could be wrong but I had a good look and could find no "inner" laminate; glass/carbon or whatever..

I am not so sure you know what you are talking about. Coremat is not a high density foam, it is a "bulker" and it is impregnated with resin during construction. This is contrary to high density foam, e.g. divinycell, that is not impregnated with resin. You do not necessarily need to use a sandwich using coremat because it can bind directly to eps foam. You typically need to use a sandwich when using high-density foam (or wood). If you use honeycomb the layers of fiber are an integral part of the panel, so you can save a bit more weight.

Note however that in principle you could use a single outside layer because the board is not hollow and would still have an overall structure fiber+high-density/coremat + eps + high-density/coremat + fiber. It all depends on what the board designer wants to achieve. Of course this highly simplify the layout of a board, and does not take into account extra layers, localized reinforcements, etc..

As a side comment: maybe you should do some research before making extravagant claims about supposed swindles perpetrated by manufacturers.

Unregistered
6th November 2011, 11:36 PM
Davide

Does that mean my (broken) kode is or isnt (actually was or wasnt) sandwich construction.?

I`d always (probably wrongly) assumed all fairly recent starboards were sandwich but from what you say and appearance of bits of my broken kode they arent ???

However;whichever way you wrap it (pardon the pun) there appears to be little carbon etc in my board !!!

ZedZdeD
7th November 2011, 04:23 AM
Anyway, I would like my boards to be reasonably heavier, in order to be materially more robust and durable. The average Starboard customer is not Björn Dunkerbeck and does not have the same needs. Suggestions for new marketing ideas : quality of construction, robustness and durability.

John1
7th November 2011, 03:42 PM
Yes, strong boards, it don`t matter if the boards weight is superior to the boards today. My Carve 99 (D-Ram) from 2000 is still going strong and i have used it a lot.
JJ

jonny
8th November 2011, 09:43 PM
From my observation , the JP slalom board is basicallly a full wood board . Not carbon as it
claim !!