PDA

View Full Version : iSonic


Ken
30th March 2007, 04:52 AM
Roger or ?,

I have been thinking about an iSonic 111. I rarely slalom race, but want a fast, well jibing board with a broad wind range. I would use sails from 5.7 to 8.5.

The question is - Is the board strong enough for chop hopping? I don't get big air, at best getting the nose up one to two meters, and the tail within 1 meter of the water.

I weigh 80 kg and will be in fresh water.

Thanks,

Ken

Phill104
30th March 2007, 05:01 AM
I wouldn't use an iS for chop hoping. Even if you try it it is a pig to jump with the footstraps so far out.

For most other boards you have a very big sail range to expect it to cope with. I would go for an iS (if it's speed your into) as your big board (a 111 or 122 should do) and an stype (93 or 104) or kombat (97) to cope with 6.5 and under

o2bnme
30th March 2007, 05:42 AM
Yes, you can chop hop, but as Phil suggests, it won't be enjoyable. I rarely bother to pop my iS105 out of the water. I would think that a 5.7 is going to be at the very edge for the 111. I put a 4.8 on my 105, but I'd rather be on a different board at that point.

Ken
30th March 2007, 11:26 PM
Thanks guys,

I didn't think of the wide strap placement issue, which would make jumping a bit tricky.

Basically, my first question had to do with the durability of the board, but I guess that isn't the issue any more.

I have a F160 and then I drop down to a HiFly 105 Move, with a big gap in the middle. I usually stay on my formula board until I can get on my 6.5 sail and the HiFly.

However, I am thinking about a board in the middle that I can use when the wind gets up to the 15 knot + range.

Our wind is pretty up and down, with lots of holes. A wider board is desirable on those days. A typical 10 to 20 knot day for us will vary from 5 knots to to 22 knots.

I think the iSonic still may be the best board, just no chop hopping.

Ken

Roger
31st March 2007, 12:44 AM
Hi Ken,
Lot's of choices here.
It almost sounds like you want a fast Bumpa and Jump board.
That would be the Carve, S-Type or Kombat Aero lines.
I sailed the '07 Carve 122 the other day, and I must say I was favorably impressed.
This is the same board that Boards UK raved about and so did Planche Mag in France. But it's the actual board that WS mag (US) didn't give a very good test.
Not sure what went wrong there, but I did find that this board needs to be powered up, maybe a little more than previous Carve 121/123 designs, but once you get it rolling, it's quite fast, jibes like a dream, and would probably chop hop very nicely (didn't have that much chop the other day on a 5.6 m2 Sailworks Hucker at the Can. Hole in Hatteras).
So, you might want to add a Carve to your list, and the 122 would be about the size to compliment your formula board and your smaller boards.
The S-Type 115 fits very nicely here as well. It's maybe a little faster than the Carve and I've chop hopped the S-Types quite a bit and they take to it almost naturally. Jibing is pretty good as well.
The Kombat/Aero 117 is going to be a bit slower, and may not have the overall wind range (on the high end) as the S-Type and Carve, but for B&J conditions it could be good as well.
If you want fast, with good jibing, and the ability to handle chop hopping, the Carve 111/122 and the S-Type 115 are in my opinion the best choices.
Hope this helps,

steveC
31st March 2007, 01:15 AM
Hi Ken,

Regarding chop hopping an iSonic, check out the latest Maui Sails video highlighting the performance of the TR-3. Kevin Pritchard looks to be having a great time popping his iSonic. While it's most likely an iS101, I'm sure you wouldn't have a problem with the iS111.

http://www.mauisails.com/index.php?what … amp;Q=high

Phill104
31st March 2007, 01:53 AM
steveC wrote:
Hi Ken,

Regarding chop hopping an iSonic, check out the latest Maui Sails video highlighting the performance of the TR-3. Kevin Pritchard looks to be having a great time popping his iSonic. While it's most likely an iS101, I'm sure you wouldn't have a problem with the iS111.

http://www.mauisails.com/index.php?what … amp;Q=high



steveC,

It will hop but is not fun. In those videos we see a world champion poseing for the camera.

Have you sailed an iSonic? Fantastic boards, really fast, controlable and gybe really well. When you try to jump one you can feel it fighting you to stay down. I think it's this element of the design that gives it so much control in chop.

If you haven't tried one then beg, borrow or steal one. You'll love it.

Ken
31st March 2007, 02:40 AM
SteveC,

Yes, I did watch the video, but I don't assume that I can pop the boards up like Phil & Kevin.

A couple of times, I got some pretty good air on my formula board too, but by accident.

Ken

o2bnme
31st March 2007, 06:14 AM
The other weekend in FL, I was watching Antoine Albeau pop a formula board with its usual 70cm fin out of the water to clear the fin. Kind of wild to watch how easily he could do that with a 11-12.5m2 sail.

steveC
1st April 2007, 01:58 AM
I posted the Maui Sails video because Kevin was clearly having a bit of fun chop hopping his iSonic, and I wanted to offer a different paradigm concerning slalom boards. Sometimes I think folks view slalom boards as all business and short on playful fun. While I wouldn't want to argue that slalom boards are closet jump and bump boards, especially considering their outboard strap placements, I find they're far more maneuverable and sporty than many folks give them credit for.

Most of my sailing is done in the ocean, and the water conditions can include sizeable standing wind swell and driving wind chop that can often combine to provide a very lively and challenging setup that ensures some aggressive airtime, especially if you're moving real fast. Although I wouldn't want to confuse this type of airtime with jumping out through incoming waves where one strives for absolute height and loft time, it can still result in some interesting trajectory and flight. I really enjoy this type of sailing, and I find slalom boards can do it with playful precision, control and speed. Getting comfortable in conditions like this really makes you a better sailor overall.

Of course, if one was slalom racing, its an important goal to avoid too much air to maximize speed. Yet, in some race setups (like the course setup in the surf at Sylt in 2006), the sailors have to adjust to an array of active water conditions that would require some jumping. Similarly, in a spot like Maui where sailing at speed outside the reef, you just can't avoid getting airtime in the mix.

In the end, I would hope that folks would be more open to considering a slalom board for a full range of conditions, even those normally reserved for other types of boards. I can't tell you how many folks I know deadended themselves in wave boards (they're all kiters now). I'm a strong advocate for slalom boards, and I wouldn't be without at least one in my quiver. Next time you go out on your slalom board, think lively and have some playful fun with it. The rewards are definitely there.

geo
1st April 2007, 05:30 AM
I will always remember the vision I saw back in 1989 in Maui. I was sailing with some buddies in Camp One with an 8'6" wave and 4.4. At once, Alex Aguera together with another sailor appeared and came to shore, both with slalom boards and 6.0. If you were sailing back then you can remember what slalom boards and race sails were like at that time. After a brief talk, they went to the water again; US151 caught speed immediately, spotted a nice ramp, jumped, performed a perfect end over end front loop, landed almost without losing speed and sailed away.
Definitely there is plenty of performance to be exploited in slalom boards that will never be attained by mere mortals; but at the same time, it is there if one wants.
I must also think that if one doesn't pay for his materials, or if their price is not important fo him, then he will be largely favoured in exploiting their limits.

sailquik
2nd April 2007, 10:01 AM
I too am puzzled at the inference that the outboard settings on the footstraps greatly hinder jumping. Ihave not found this to be the case , but then most of my sailing is done on boards with this strap set up. I did find my S-Type 104 very easy to chop hop and jump waves with the outboard settings. I am very impressed with the ability of my iS87 to fly and float through the air when the pilot orders it. Of course I am a bit more careful on the landings!!!! I know thw iS87 is a much smaller board than the iS111 but some if the characteristics are the simmilar and the straps are very outboard for it's size.
I concur with SteveC, slalom boards jump and fly extremely well but must be landed much more carefully if the pilot is paying the bills. :D

Ken
2nd April 2007, 11:30 PM
The initial question still hasn't been answered.

Will the construction of the iS or th S-type allow for chop hopping without damage?

Ken

steveC
3rd April 2007, 01:49 AM
Hi Ken,

I spent a little time and poured over the technology section to discern the physical attritutes of Starboard's Wood and Technora constructions. Although I have maintained a question in my mind whether the Wood construction is robust enough without any fiberglass over the wood, the folks at Starboard have always hung tough in support of it. It's featured as their premium construction, and given their impressively low warranty claims, one must readily conclude that it's up for the job.

From what I can tell, all the slalom and freeride designs (iSonic, S-Types, Carves and Kombats) all reflect the same general construction details (Wood or Technora), with maybe some minor diffences like the heel bumpers on the Kombats. Of course, it's difficult to explain the subtle differences in overall weight, yet I'm not getting the impression that the variances can be attributed to any lack of integrity in one model or the other.

Yet, comments above from geo and sailquik clearly appear to suggest that the iSonics' construction might be viewed as too fragile for the rigors of chop hopping or non-wave type jumping and that you would do so at your risk. I have to question this, because the boards are full sandwich contruction, to include suitable overall reinforcement. In all my hard use of full sandwich slalom boards (even some 7-8 years old), I have never broken a board. I've experienced some softening of the deck in front of the rear straps (two boards) and a lost of crispness in the bottom of one board under the strap areas, but no catatrophic failures that rendered a board useless.

Notwithstanding my positive experiences, I wonder about the general lack of faith in the strength of slalom type boards. Maybe I've just been lucky, and many folks could tell horror stories of new boards breaking under minor stresses. From my standpoint, I wouldn't hesitate chop hopping a slalom board. Frankly, I wouldn't buy a board where I felt I had to baby the thing along. That would take away some of the fun and spirit of windsurfing that I need and thrive on. Just go for it!

Roger
3rd April 2007, 02:50 AM
Hi Ken,
Chop hopping will be fine.
Wave jumping, with flat landings would not be a good idea.
Huge jumps in the Gorge, with a sailor who knows how to land nose or tail first, might be OK as well but landing flat from more than a couple of feet is probably going to hurt the deck under the foot pads.
Hope this helps,

Ken
3rd April 2007, 03:27 AM
Thanks Roger,

I normally don't land flat or nose first, but I am not good enough to choose my landing technique. I have done both by accident and didn't like either one. I prefer tail first which is the norm for me.

Ken

geo
3rd April 2007, 02:43 PM
steveC wrote:
Hi Ken,
...

Yet, comments above from geo ... clearly appear to suggest that the iSonics' construction might be viewed as too fragile ...
???

Phill104
3rd April 2007, 04:34 PM
Ken wrote:
The initial question still hasn't been answered.

Will the construction of the iS or th S-type allow for chop hopping without damage?

Ken

You didn't mention s-types in your first question. I loved mine and it was a shame to get rid of them. As they were aslo designed with superx in mind and are shown doing loops in the advertising bumpf then starboard must believe they are up to the task.

steveC
4th April 2007, 12:38 AM
Hi geo,

From your post above, you made the following comment:

"I must also think that if one doesn't pay for his materials, or if their price is not important fo him, then he will be largely favoured in exploiting their limits."

I could have got it wrong, but I interpreted your comment to suggest that slalom boards might be too fragile for chop hopping or non-wave jumpiing, and that if done, you would do it at your risk. I think that it's important to note I was interpreting not just your comments, but those of sailquik too. Of course, your comment could have just been an extension of your earlier comments regarding Alex Aguera forward looping his slalom board, and that it applied strictly to his exploits. From your latest post, I must guess that was the case.

My apologies for any misunderstandings on my part.

Ian Fox
5th April 2007, 12:00 PM
Hi All, esp ken with respect to the construction re jumping;

ST is significantly stronger, designed to withstand full on rigors of Superx racing etc and should be considered to be quite suitable for sensible B&J sailing.

iS is race light, still very B&J capable, however it should be noted we don't recommend too much, not becuase it won't jump, but more because we can't control what happens when it comes down. Sometimes that may not be good. Nothing (repeat nothing) in this sport is unbreakable; it would be a risky suggestion to infer the iS is fully jump proof. On the other hand,the strongest wave board can still be broken.

If you want to really B&J on a fast board, then ST is the preference.

Cheers ~ Ian