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ThierryP
4th April 2007, 07:56 PM
I was seriously considering buying a large slalom board (iSonic 133) to replace my Formula 155.
However, today I was sailing my iSonic 115 on a 7.5 m sail, when the wind died. I managed to schlog, but when I fell in, I did not manage to uphaul the sail: my balance is not good enough, and I was not even close to succeeding (i am 78 kgs). I had to waterstart; waterstarting is no problem with a 7.5 (except the wind was VERY light), but it is a real challenge with a 10 m when the board is so short that you cannot rest the boom on the tail. Now, I come to really value the length of the old F155 (270 cm)!
The iSonic 133 is wider than my 115 (80 cm vs 68 cm), but it is even shorter (222 cm vs 233 cm). I have serious doubts that I would be able to uphaul a 10 m sail on it, if I can't uphaul a 7.5 on the 115. I can't test the board before buying it.
What do you think? If I cannot uphaul a 7.5 on an iSonic 115, do I stand a chance to uphaul a 10 m on an iSonic 133? And do you normally uphaul, or waterstart, a 10 m on a board that's only 220/230 cm?
Cheers!
Thierry

MA_Pete
5th April 2007, 03:40 AM
Uphauling an 8.5 is no problem on the iSonic 125, quite easy actually. I imagine uphauling a 10.0 on a 133 would be just as easy.

My biggest is 9.5, and I never try to waterstart that beast. 7.5 and below for waterstarts for me. I do beachstart it in waist-high or below. I use the Epic deluxe uphaul, that thing rocks for the big sails.

Adjusting to the shorter length (mine is 231 cm I believe) takes a little getting used to, both for uphauling and for tacking, but once you get used to it, no problems. And I am not that advanced either, so if I can do it, anyone can...

Phill104
5th April 2007, 04:50 AM
I weigh 85kg ish and have no problems uphauling an 8.5 on my iS115. You do need to be quick though and really snap it up.

Go out and practise on a very light wind Day when you would not normally sail and you will soon get the hang of it.

mark h
5th April 2007, 07:07 AM
Hi Thierry
Phil and Pete are spot on, I'm 105kg and can uphaul a 9m "wide sleeve" race sail on my sonic 125 in all conditions with out any prob, and I'm average Joe. 10m & 78kg on a iS133 should'nt be hard. I prefere to water-start, but if I fall on the wrong side, its quicker/easier to hop on and uphaul. As Phil says, snap the sail up and spead your foot, should be good.

Cheers

o2bnme
5th April 2007, 08:24 AM
If you are unstable, remember to put slightly more weight on the leeward side of the board. That gets the board to push against the mast and stabilize things for you. Just be ready to adjust when the sail is lifted.

Roger
5th April 2007, 09:57 AM
Hi Thierry P,
I think youi are probably not finding the fore and aft center of buoyancy on your Isonic 133.
You need to put your front foot very close in front of the mast foot, and your rear foot quite a ways behind the mast foot.
In other words you need to shift your weight away from the nose of the board to put the center of your weight over the center of bouyancy
of the board, which is quite a bit further back from the nose than what you may be accustomed to.
The Isonics don't have much volume (float) in the nose and the nose is very short as well, so you simply must move your weight back some.
Hope this helps,

ThierryP
5th April 2007, 12:41 PM
o2bnme wrote:
If you are unstable, remember to put slightly more weight on the leeward side of the board. That gets the board to push against the mast and stabilize things for you. Just be ready to adjust when the sail is lifted.
Many thanks for your advice guys, it's all very useful. O2bnme, did you mean "windward" side, rather than "leeward" side? When uphauling, the board is windward, the sail is leeward, if I want the board to push against the mast, I should put more weight on the windward side, isn't it?

James
6th April 2007, 01:18 AM
I think it's harder than some of these guys are implying, but you will probably be able to do it with some practice.

I would say that if a board has at least 50 liters more volume than your weight in kg, you will be able to uphaul it pretty easily. (For you that would be a 128 liter board). And with practice, you should be able to uphaul a board with just 20-30 liters more volume than your body weight in kg. (For you that would be 105 liters). Anything less than that and you will have to be extremely skilled to uphaul.

Jean-Marc
6th April 2007, 04:59 AM
Agree with Roger, the nose is pretty small volume wise. The trick to avoid going submarine is to use 40% of your body weight on your front leg and 60% on your back leg when uphauling a large sail on iSonic/Hypersonic "no nose" hulls.

Cheers !

JM

Roger
6th April 2007, 05:10 AM
Thanks JM!
Yeah, when you get on the Isonic/Hypersonic/Apollo, the lack of "float" really becomes apparent.
I guess alot of sailors still revert back to their beginner days when uphauling.
Gotta space those feet equally if front of and behind the mast foot.
Doesn't work on the "no float nose boards".
Not sure if it's 40% front and 60% back or not, but each sailor must "adjust" their "uphauling stance" to get their weight over the point of max float in the board.
I think I used to put both feet behind the mast when trying to figure out the Hypersonics.
It's awkward, but it works.
Better to put the front foot right back with the inside of your arch practically touching the mast foot, then adjust the width of your stance with your back foot until the board floats level.
Uphauling a board with the nose down (or up) just isn't stable.
Somewhere in your foot placement you can find the "balance point" even if the board is ankle deep in water. (Semi-Sinker)
Hope this helps,

Phill104
6th April 2007, 05:37 AM
You also have to remember that the sail balances the board to some extent and as soon as it becomes clear of the water the point of max float suddenly moves back so you need to shift your weight accordingly.

It's often best to wait for a gust so once the sail rises you can hang off the boom for support and immediately get some forward motion.

All this sounds complicated but a little light wind practice was all it took me to nail it.

ThierryP
14th April 2007, 12:40 AM
The other day I tried an F-Type 138, 88 cm wide and 222 cm long (compared w/ 80 cm wide and identical length for iSonic 133). Unfortunately the wind initially looked too strong for 10m, so I rigged up my 8.5. Following the advice given above, I placed my front foot right against the mastfoot, and I managed to uphaul without too much difficulty. I also managed to waterstart. However the wind was in fact not as strong as it looked, so this made things easier. I suspect that it would be significantly more challenging to uphaul a 10 m sail on the iSonic 133, as 8 cm less in width, and an extra 1.5 sqm in sail area, make a big difference.
I wanted to try uphauling either my 8.5 or my 10m on my HS 125, but a very nice chap bought it in the morning (it was up for sale), so no chance!
BTW, I was very disappointed with the F-Type 138, and I understand why it was discontinued. It planes early and is an easy board to sail, but it cannot point with its 52 cm fin, and it has no speed. I can point higher with any of my other boards (including the Sonic 85 and the iS 105). It might point higher with a bigger fin, but it will then be even slower! This experience is very different from that of other guys, who have posted rave comments about the FT-138 on this forum.
Cheers,
Thierry
PS: thanks for the tip (using "quick reply") Roger, it works!

frigobox
14th April 2007, 02:05 AM
Thierry, the F Type 138 was not really discontinued this year, look at the iSonic 145, its shape is nearly the same, except maybe for some more volume, the same for F Type 148 that became iSonic 155. I now have the F Type 148 and find it much easier in the gusts than my old Formula 175.Of course it was the purpose of its softer shape and short nose...Of course it points less high (no boxy rails) but for me so much more fun in the "p├ętole" because much more control and better in maneuvers,
Regards,
Fred

ThierryP
14th April 2007, 07:59 AM
Fred, I can see why some sailors love the F-Type: easy to sail, smooth and forgiving compared with a Formula; but its (in)ability upwind, at least with the stock fin and in slightly underpowered conditions, is surprising. I am not comparing its upwind performance with a Formula, but with small iSonics, that are designed primarily to fly off the wind, but not to track upwind (even though they are very good at the latter).

mark h
14th April 2007, 08:21 AM
Hi Thierry

The FT138 is more compairable with the iS145 & iS155 (both of these are replacements for the F-types and are not "true" light wind slalom boards). The FT138 has much softer rails than the iS133 (a true light wind slalom board). The iS133 has harder rails and like your iS105, it will track up wind better than the FT138 (I always felt that the F-Type used to slightly slip side ways if push to much). The iS133 will feel much crisper than the FT138, but less forgiving.

Uphauling an 8.5m on your old HS125 would have been easy. I have uphauled a 9m wide sleeve race sail on both my old HS105 (it did sink though) and HS125 with no problems.

Speedwise, on flat water, I have touched 31 knots on my old FT158 with my 9m and 49cm Select Superfast fin (not a special fin), so the FT138 should be pretty capable in the right conditions with a bit of tuning.

Cheers

frigobox
14th April 2007, 03:03 PM
Hi Thierry,
I understand what you mean and I agree with you that rails of F Types and iS 145 or 155 are softer than the ones of other iSonics, that's because F Types were more "freeride"shapes than slalom shapes (and iS 145 and 155 are replacements of F Types thus no real slalom boards).Of course with the stock fin upwind is not so good with a big sail, but the back of the board is so wide that you can easily put a bigger fin and believe me you can fly very quick...Also what I love with this board is its range of use with different fins,combined with soft rails and short nose for smooth character. In fact the problem is that it 's not a true slalom shape like other iSonics.
Cheers,
Fred

ThierryP
29th May 2007, 05:23 PM
Just a quick note to say that I did buy the iSonic 133. I have n ot had a chance to use it with my 10 m yet, but I have sailed it with my 8.5, and the guys above were right, it is very easy to uphaul the 8.5 on this board. I believe it should not be overly difficult to uphaul a 10m on it.
Many thanks to all for the advice given.
I was much happier with the iSonic 133 than I was with the F Type 138: I found the board to track much better upwind, to be much faster, and more fun to ride. I am very impressed with Mark's 31 knots on the FT 1588

Philip
30th May 2007, 03:30 PM
With boards with not much float at the front it also helps to move / steer the board around with feet to find and correct for the best point of balance and angle to the wind to lift the sail - this is a dynamic exercise especially in gusty winds but easier than it might seem.

DaveQ
2nd June 2007, 03:46 AM
ThierryP,

I agree that you should be easily able to uphaul the 10.0 on the 133.

One thing I have found that helps immensely is the addition of an "easy uphaul" type device on your uphaul line. It is easily made with a length of downhaul line and a small piece of harness line plastic tubing. Very inexpensive and simple to install, but it helps you with dumping the water off the sail to clear the mast and get it up out of the water.

After you dump the water off, and the sail gets close to vertical, the rest is the (phyically)easy part. I can't believe I went so long without using the easy uphaul device...try it, you'll like it.

DaveQ

ThierryP
3rd June 2007, 04:59 PM
Hi Dave,

I have been using an Easy Uphaul for several years, and you are right, it is a very useful accessory!

Thierry