View Full Version : Early planing and width in race board
19th February 2013, 09:29 AM
Looking at SB US 147.
How much difference in early planing between 85 cm, 90 cm and 100 cm wide Formula?
Assuming using same 10-oh race sail...
Thanx in advance
19th February 2013, 10:55 AM
It will depend on your weight and skills. If light weight, not much difference (± 1 knot). If heavy weight, gain will become more significant with the largest width.
Active pumping skills is mandatory. It is easier to find the correct nose pitch to start and sustain the planing with the longer UltraSonic 147 as compared to a large iSonic or a Formula which are a bit shorter.
As for me with an 11 m2 sail and 65 kg weight, planing as early as 7 knots with iSonic 117 Wide or UltraSonic 147. With a 100 cm wide Formula, planing as low as 6 knots.
19th February 2013, 09:53 PM
how about 100 kilo intermediate
not all people like pumping
new wide freemoves RRD FireMove and Fanatic Gecko are supposed to plane up in light winds passively
would i be better off with 90, 95 or 100 cm wide board
as you say length is a factor
too many new boards are too short !!!
20th February 2013, 06:23 AM
The UltraSonic 147 is definitely not like all the short board who need active pumping to get on plane, so passive pumping and is going due to the extra lenght.
For 10m and passive pumping the UltraSonic will be very difficult to beat, sure faster than a Formula who need a huge energy to get one plane.
Hope this help.
All the best
21st February 2013, 08:42 PM
No one likes pumping, except for the workout benefits. Many of us pump because we want to plane as early as possible. In light wind, gusty conditions (inland lake sailing), two guys on identical gear and the same weight in marginal conditions - Pumping can promote planing 80% of the time while no pumping may allow planing 30% of the time. If you want to plane more, you pump more.
22nd February 2013, 09:49 AM
Indeed, no one really likes to pump.
I also stopped with it when I got my US147. Getting too old for it :)
I used to pump quite a lot with my former Formula 161.
The US147 really does not need it. It's the earliest planing board I've ever been on.
In the very marginal conditions, you can use a bigger fin than the standard 58.
I use a Deb R12 64 with my 10.9 sail.
The US147 has only 1 aspect in which it cannot beat a Formula, i.e. pointing,
22nd February 2013, 08:50 PM
one more question - is the board short in terms of tacks ?
22nd February 2013, 09:34 PM
It entirely depends on "how you tack".
If you tack by stepping up to the mast foot or forward and around the mast foot, you will have problems/
If you tack by staying back behind the mast foot and stepping over the mast...leaned way back until the
foot of the sail rests near the old downwind footstrap, tacking the US 147 works nicely.
23rd February 2013, 07:14 AM
Yes, that's true what Roger says.
There's little volume in the nose of the US147.
All the volume is in in the back.
So it is not difficult to push the nose under while tacking, unless you do it like Roger describes.
23rd February 2013, 09:11 AM
ciao Remi, my question for you is regarding passive pumping and ultrasonic
I very happily sail a formula 162 and futura 144 and futura 122 with race sails from 12 to 7.2m2
I have a fractured elbow (left) but I can windsurf quite as well as before trauma althought I can't progress my skills very much I think; my weight? 100 kgs :-(
I don't mind free formula sailing, indeed I enjoy it very much, in truth futura 144 range overlaps with 122 because I use them only when waterstart is possible 100% of the times and thus I can plane with whichever assuming sufficient sail and fin size
I would like to buy US 147 to substitute formula and futura 144 thus simplifying my quiver
is the ultrasonic the right board for me? will it complete with futura 122 the range from 12 to 7m2 (10-12 knots to 25-30 knots for my level)?
can you describe the ultrasonic flat and kick compared to futura144 and fomula162? (144 longer flat with tail kick, 162 shorter flat no kick?) I think I can comprehend the feeling on plane with this comparing with two boards I know well, I don't mind rails as my jibing level is piggy, I don't mind nose length and scoop because my level it is not so piggy ;-)
23rd February 2013, 10:07 PM
since i went from a fun/race longboard to something similiar to the SB US, let me ask Remi what i consider a tough question
would Remi prefer a Phantom over the SB US ?? for early planing, versatility , etc ??
and for a heavyweight Phantom 295 okay ??
used one in the area
3rd March 2013, 02:09 AM
Phantom Race 377 and UltraSonic 147 are very different machine but both plane very early, the main difference fo planning on this 2 boards is that the PR are more easy for passive palnning, almost don't need to pump to get on the plane.
Then board are very different, for reaching the US will be way faster but deep down wind it will be very hard to beat the PR. Then for up wind light winds the PR is a killer machine, the US need more wind but still better than any other iSonic but less than Formula.
I think with this you can make your own choice.
The Phantom 295, just a bit later than the PR 377 and is perfect board and very competitive in the Race-Board Class youth under 75 kgs, but can go up wind with out dagger board when you have 15 knots or more compare to PR 377. Even at 92 kgs for planning condition you get a lot fun and don't feel the board is to small, I feel it only in non planning condition.
All the best
3rd March 2013, 10:42 AM
it is as i thought - all great boards
guess i should get on of each :-)
this summer i will make my decision whether i prefer race longboard over free formula
3rd March 2013, 10:43 AM
one of each - was meant
13th March 2013, 09:37 AM
Since both the UltraSonic and Phantom Race are nice board when planing, I guess the remaining deciding factor is how much fun are you going to spend when you go riding in non-planing conditions.
Is it possible to schlogg with US147 ? Yes. Is it fun ? No.
Is it possible to shlogg with PR380 ? Yes. Is it fun ? Yes, yes, yes (sorry, never tested PR377 yet).
In sum, are you interested to ride in non-planing conditions or not at all ?
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