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Unregistered
1st April 2013, 06:55 PM
Has the Serenity been discontinued? I have one of the earlier Serenity versions, I'm guessing '06-'07 and I love the board. It's probably my most used board during the year. I would love to upgrade to the newer year models but they're impossible to find. Are there any plans to bring the board back into production?

Jean-Marc
2nd April 2013, 09:05 PM
You love your board, so do I and other users as well. Keep your Serenity Mk I, it's for sure a true collector now !

I surmise the Serenity Mk II has been discontinued in 2013 because of internal competition by the WindSup emerging market... As for future plans to reintroduce a Serenity Mk III back into production, I really don't know. It's a shame because the Serenity has nothing to do with a WindSup IMHO.

Cheers !

JM

Nakaniko Unregistered
5th April 2013, 10:57 PM
I can understan Starboard as unfortunately windsurf market is not so ready to accept a 460 cm board, I.ve clearly seen that the last ones where sold in Germany in courious ways even by the distributor.
But as a proud owner of a Serenity mkII I can say that there is no other board that could give the fantastic sensations of windsurfing IN THE REAL WINDLESS WORLD.
Imho make another even slower but little shorter canoe-shaped board, cal it with another name and especially keep the price low making it like my solid Sportech one, in gliding there is not appreciable difference for a pair of kg less

Jean-Marc
6th April 2013, 02:36 PM
I'm quite a bit puzzled that the windsurfing market does not seem to accept a 15 footer Serenity but its no problem for the SUP market to get on with a 14, 15 or even 16 footer long board.

Why making a shorter Serenity ? Something like that : http://www.star-board-sup.com/2013/products/boards/#exploring#14-0-x30-touring ? Does 30 cm makes a huge difference to you for say a shorter Serenity mk III ? Please explain...

Cheers !

JM

Alex Unregistered
10th April 2013, 01:59 AM
Don't make it shorter, that will not improve it. Making it inflatable would make the transportation easy but it will never be as stiff or glide as well as a epoxy/wood model. I've experienced a similar situation with my collapsible and plastic 17 foot kayaks.

Make the Serenity lighter/longer/stiffer/sleeker and faster while keeping the price point down. I know that's the hardest one because it would require lots of carbon to do the previous.

I hope someone high up at Starboard still cares about super light wind days. I have a feeling the guys that sail and design the boards for Starboard live in a very windy place where the Serenity would never get used. I think they don't understand what its like to have an office job and have no wind for over a month now. To have to wait for the occasional front to come through. Getting the last five sessions on the Serenity when it's cranking at 10mph is a total bliss for the mind.

davide
10th April 2013, 04:03 AM
I'm quite a bit puzzled that the windsurfing market does not seem to accept a 15 footer Serenity but its no problem for the SUP market to get on with a 14, 15 or even 16 footer long board.

Why making a shorter Serenity ? Something like that : http://www.star-board-sup.com/2013/products/boards/#exploring#14-0-x30-touring ? Does 30 cm makes a huge difference to you for say a shorter Serenity mk III ? Please explain...

Well, I don't know about the market but when I looked for a Wind-SUP my size limit was 10'6" to 11'6" for rather obvious transportation issues. I finally got an 11" that I am very happy with. I would never consider a 14-15-16' SUP, not even a 12'.

I am sure my 11" Wind-SUP I way less efficient than a Serenity but it works fine: it takes me around in almost zero wind doing fun displacement sailing and some freestyle. It completely solved my winter and light air needs: 0 to 4 knots SUP, 3-10 Wind-SUP.

Would I get a Serenity-like board if it was, say, 11' long x 31" wide? Yes, especially if it was better upwind, but only if I could SUP it. Something similar but more agile than a K-15, no cockpit, light construction. I am sure it can be done ...

Unregistered
10th April 2013, 02:29 PM
Living in Hong Kong, I am so frustrated that the much improved Serenity (MK2, with added volume and tail fin) was discontinued. Impossible to find. To my knowledge, there is only one Serenity MK1, heavily used, located in Stanley Main Beach, HK Island and not for sale. Please StarBoard...
Warm regards to all.
J

Nakaniko Unregistered
10th April 2013, 03:18 PM
Reading some of the last posts make me so happy for that crazy decision I've made two years (and half) ago to buy that incredible board, my Serenity Sportech MKII, even taking my car in an autumn day and going straight from Venice to Munich and then back to personally collect my dreamy board (not having much faith in carriers to be able to safely transport a 460 cm board).
I was wrongly supposing that many riders were thinking badly at the dimensions of my baby, I see that there is still a real need of that incredible board. And yes I see around even some 17 foot sups, so the lenght seems not to be the main problem.
Pheraphs trying to make it slighly wider and/or less round hull, to match the sup race-standars.. It will loose for sure some gliding abylity but be more interesting for sup-ers that could also sail on it.
Even if in flat water I've tried to sup my Serenity and it doesn't seems so impossible to row on it
About the long sups, it's always the same story, sup now is super-trendy and so what seemed to be boring with windsurf is a must-go with sups. Not to say that the standing rowing over a sup is a way less efficient way of roving over a boat-board than sitting and with a double paddle like on a kayak, or reversed with back to the bow, like on an olympic rowing boad, we well know here in Venice that are since ancnient time standing rowers. But it's the tend of the moment...
Anyway I've seen that when you have a Serenity the need for paddling becomes so rare, because we live really in a world with poor winds, but sea is almost never totally windless, and that marginal breeze is what is needed to enjoy the riding with it...
On the opposite I start seeing that a new problem is increasing about my Serenity. Up to now, when wind was increasing and so I was jumping on a planing board I was feeling safe to leave the Serenity unattended, thinking that nobody would have beeen interested in such a strange long board. Now that it's becoming a collector's item I won't be so quiet living it alone...;-))

Nakaniko Unregistered
10th April 2013, 03:31 PM
I can add this. I'm planning to ride my Serenity in some places of the lagoon that can show the most famous locations of Venice in the background of a some photos. This could be, I hope, a formidable advertising for the Serenity and eventually make possible the brand to put it again in production.

Jean-Marc
10th April 2013, 04:33 PM
Alex,

Don't worry, I second you with scheduling the office job and the no wind issues for months...

Nice vids on your blog BTW : http://www.20knotsnob.com/messageboard_orig.cfm?msgid=186
PS : keep your front foot behind the mast foot and on the median line of the board...

Nakaniko,

The Explorer WindSUP 12'6" x 29" AST Silver (*) is indeed a flat-bottomed hull, not as round-bottomed hull as the Serenity. Even the K-15 is a flat-bottomed hull. So if you want something more stable or more manoeuvrable or more plug & play like Davide's wish list, it's already available.

Great idea to shoot you riding a Serenity in Venice, keep us posted !

Cheers !

JM

(*) http://www.star-board-sup.com/2013/products/boards/#exploring#12-6-x29-touring

Jean-Marc
10th April 2013, 08:09 PM
Interesting discussion is going on here !

Ok, let's play the devil's advocate and ask a very simple question :
who needs a Serenity given the plethora of WindSUP models on the market ?

Or put another way : who needs an ultra-efficient gliding machine ? What's the market share for that segment within the light wind WindSUP practice ?

First, let us not forget why is the Serenity so long ? Simple : to minimize drag. Drag is inversely proportional to the hull's lenght cubed.

Suppose a 368 cm-long Serenity A. Drag would be 1/(3.68)^3 = 1/50

Suppose a 464 cm-long Serenity B. Drag would be 1/(4.64)^3 = 1/100

Lenghtening a Serenity by 21% would reduce her drag by half, which is by itself an enormous gain.

That simple example (together with her narrowness, overall drop shape outline and pointy bow and stern) explains why the Serenity is so much efficient at gliding in ultra light wind as compared to a shorter WindSUP...

So, the basic question still remains : who needs a Serenity among the light windsurfer and longboarder community ?

Suppose you come to a windsurfing school or club where a 12'6" WindSUP, a 10'0" WindSUP and a Serenity are lying side by side and ready-to-go on the beach with a camless 5.5 m2 simple sail. Guess what happens ?

Reality at my home lake has shown me that 95% of average windsurfer tend to choose a WindSUP and only 5% the Serenity, not because of lenght, but because of width and flat-bottomed hull shape. A wide and flat board is much more stable for a newbie or average Joe/Jane than the racing-looking longer and narrower round-bottomed hull Serenity. The Serenity is even lighter to carry up and down the beach than any WindSUP.

Choice has nothing to do with lenght or weight, but rather with stability and immediate plug & play safe feeling.

So, what's your thoughts about that ?

Is an exclusive built-to-order system sustainable and profitable enough for Starboard to fulfill the unmet needs of the 5% potential Serenity lovers in the segment of light wind and longboard windsurf market ? I dunno...

Cheers !

JM

BelSkorpio
11th April 2013, 11:20 AM
Hi JM,

I follow what you say, but don't underestimate the transport issues and they do have to do with the length of the equipment.

I mean, if I would have to transport a more than 4m long board, no matter how light or narrow, it would be really a pain. I live +/- 100km of my windsurfspots. Some are a bit closer, some are a bit further.
Luckily I have a trailer that can contain quite a lot of boards, but no longer than 3m.
The ride to the beach takes me 1hour. The ride back home again 1 hour. Yes, windsurfing is time consuming for me.

It's different for people who live very closeby their windsurfspots, but how many of us have this privilege ?
5% ?

These matters have already often been discussed on the forum.
I'm convinced that transport issues are the only obstacle that prevents our dear beloved sport from further growing massively. It certainly obstructs our youngsters who depend completely on the adults to get the equipment (and themselves) transported to the windsurf spots. For the same reason, kite surfing became so popular. They have less transport issues.

Transport capabilities will always remain a very important marketing aspect in the windsurfing branch.

Hallowed be those who live near by the beach !

davide
11th April 2013, 02:24 PM
Jean-Luc I think there are at least three things to consider:

Ease of use: I have a crossover 11' SUP and tried a race 12'5" SUP. I did not like it. Yes I was going faster but I had to pay much more attention to what I was doing, so forget it. I SUP to relax. Same, as you point out, for a beginner wind-sup: they really want something nice and stable and easy.

Diminishing gains: yes a long serenity shaped board will be more efficient and faster in displacement, but do we care? It is displacement sailing, and it is fun and playful, but what if I go 2 knots slower than another displacement board? Is that important?

Length: I don't think one can underrate it. I can put my 11' in my van, I will not buy anything longer. And carrying a 10-11' board on top of a car is quite different than carrying a 12-13' (14-15' yikes!). I am with BelSkorpio here, one of the main reason for the popularity of kiting is the fact that you can carry it in a bag.

So ... it would be great if starboard offered a serenity "on order" but it is probably a niche product. Probably making it shorter would not change the equation much since the few people that would buy it are in for the efficiency and don't care about length.

Unregistered
11th April 2013, 08:54 PM
i believe Jim Drake was one of the Serenity designers

already OFF the market ??
is he rolling over in his grave already ???

nakaniko Unregistered
11th April 2013, 09:53 PM
Davide, have you ever tried a Serenity?
Emotional. This is the difference. As far as I can see Serenity is the only Board that gives emotional ride under 6-8 knots of wind. I've ridden in the same wind my Mistral Ventura 2009, 343-240lt and there is no comparison, really. Ventura is a good glider, for the flat hull and stability I think somehow similar to a sup, but man, the riding is stable and relaxing. But the emotions... Ventura start giving its best when pushing on its rails with some more wind, more physical.
So you need a relaxing and good gliding board, easy to stand upon it, no question, go for a sup. But if you look in light wind for some of the emotions who make many rider to buy small wave board, even if difficult to ride, then my baby I think is the only answer.
About carrying difficulties I'm surprised that many Americans feel this like a problem, when is well known that you are way more lucky about spaces than us European, I mean for streets, cars, houses and then garages, and finally for rules and laws about carrying long over the car roof. But someone forget how easily the kayakers carry their even longer and heavier boats over car roof

Roger
11th April 2013, 11:01 PM
nakaniko has it right!
I sailed the Mk 1 Serenity extensively....in all conditions from pure glass < 5 knots of wind to 20+ knots of wind.
I've sailed a few SUPs (I do not like paddling.....sailing is far more efficient...even in very light winds). and while they do indeed give more stability, they sail nothing like the Serenity.
I've sailed it with a 4.2 m2 rig in way over 20 knots, and when you get the Serenity planning with the nose out of the water until the bow wave exits under the mast foot, it simply flies.....until.... the tail goes under....then it gets real interesting as the stability goes away completely. You have to slow down until the tail no longer submerges,
and that's as fast as it will go.
I've sailed it with smaller sails and small weed fins in very shallow water off the Florida coast, and the ability to
simply glide along checking out the marine life in total tranquility is awesome.
The ability to rail the Serenity and go upwind on the fin is really amazing.
In mid range winds (10-18 knots) with larger sails (6.5-8.5 m2) the Serenity really tests your techniques.
Very challenging to get the most out of the board. At times it seems to have a mind of it's own,, but you try slightly
different techniques and learn to "tame the beast".
Yes, the Serenity was designed by the late Jim Drake. This board took an extensive amount of his time to get it all
designed and tested.
I spent many hours discussing with Jim what his concepts were, and how they were integrated into the Serenity.
All of his suggestions seemed to work with the Serenity design and if you followed his suggestions, you could
fairly easily get the most from the Serenity as his suggestions were based on getting particular aspects of the
Serenity design to work for you.
Roger

davide
12th April 2013, 03:01 PM
Roger, Nakaniko, I am sure the Serenity is a great board but I think you might be missing the point. Of course the Serenity would work better than an 11' flat bottom WindSUP, but a lot of people do not care about light wind performance or a board that is "Very challenging ... At times it seems to have a mind of it's own ... " and requires a different technique to "tame the beast".

I am an "expert" windsurfer and as such I could be interested in a board like that. However I have plenty sailing challenging where I live, in San Francisco, and when I go out in light wind I am happy to just cruise around.

Maybe marketing-wise the serenity could come back as a "hook" for people who live in windless areas to "progress" from Win-SUP. But I think that what the sport needs first is simplicity, and even easier boards and rigs for beginners than there are now.

Nakaniko Unregistered
14th April 2013, 08:31 PM
I want to say that there is some misunderstanding. Serenity in its range of wind is NOT a challenging or too difficult board. I'm and average to advanced windsurf and I've found teh serenity way less challenging than some small boards I.ve tried. Obviously is not a beginner board, but really is not a user-unfriendly one!
The beast thet Rieger speaks about is when using it in strong winds and rough sea.
Anyway here my only-in=Venice fleet:
img1.fotoalbum.virgilio.it/v/www1-1/649/64903/105409/13042013274-vi.jpg
copy and then paste in the web address box
Isn/t she impressive and lovely?

Alex Unregistered
25th April 2013, 10:12 PM
Jean-Marc, I'm very surprised you found that thread/forum/video. I guess the Serenity world is a smaller than I thought. :)

Thanks for the suggestion! I'll try keeping the front foot behind the mast. I've been getting much better at sailing the Serenity and actually now gybe it more than trying to tack. Sometimes it stalls out when I try to tack it and the board wants to slide sideways. At that point it gets very hard to point it in any direction. Any thoughts on how to get out of the stall?

As far as the WindSUP vs Serenity, I think that's comparing apples and oranges. I have two SUP's, a Naish Glide 12' (no mast option) and a Bic Jungle Wind 10'10" (my first windsurf board/SUP). If you have a school or just a beginner with a Serenity, that board should be nowhere near them. It will only frustrate and probably dissuade them from continuing with the sport.

I've used the Serenity as a SUP with the 40cm and 70cm fins in 0mph winds; I'm talking dead calm and it's not designed for it. Does it work as a SUP, barely. Would I take it on a 10 mile paddle session? NO WAY. It's not a kayak, it's not a SUP and it's not a wave board. It's a perfection of engineering designed to do what other boards can't in super light wind. I have a Kona One a Mistral Superlight II, F2 Lightning Race a bunch of short boards and the Bic wind/SUP, in light wind they're nowhere near the feel of the Serenity. And yes, I've schlogged on these boards as I'm fairly new to windsurfing (about 2 years). I loved schlogging and just wanted to sail anything; until I got the Serenity. It doesn't schlog!

I love the idea of an inflatable SUP/windsurfer Starboard recently released and I'd love to try it, I don't think I'll ever buy one. I have a collapsible kayak and it's nowhere near as fast as my rotomolded one. They're great for storage but you compromise in the ride quality. I'll take ride quality over storage issues whenever possible.

I'm waiting for the weekend and there's a regatta coming up. The wind forcast is 9mph gusting to 12; guess which board I'm taking? I have a huge smile on my face just thinking about it! :)

Jean-Marc
26th April 2013, 03:16 PM
Alex,

Yep, fans of Serenity are easy to spot on, especially when pics or a video is available...

As for tacking the Serenity, bank the board with the windward rail up and tilt the rig on the back towards the tail to head up dead upwind. Then, it's way easier to keep your balance when you simply oversheet the sail when you're dead upwind, with your front foot just in front of the mast base. Check out the following video at time 2:05 and 3:28 to see what I mean by sail oversheeting : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V97ikRFQDdU .

When passing dead upwind and especially if your stalls without any momentum anymore, tack the sail and frankly tilt the sail toward the nose of the board and pushing the nose sideways with your front foot placed inbetween the mast track and the tiki printed on the deck (back foot just behind the mast foot). Keep the sail sheeted out; if you keep the sail sheeted in, the nose of the board will not turn under your front foot but it will drift sideways with no motion forward and you'll stall. It's the same when you try to point too much upwind: the board stalls and starts to drift sideways. Tilt the sail forward and sheet out a bit to bear away a bit and gain speed again. This is why the Serenity has no footstraps because your feets are always dancing a bit along the median line of the deck to correct for sail trim and board pitch.

Cheers !

JM

Nakaniko Unregistered
22nd May 2013, 12:26 PM
Some more new from Serenity world...

First of all if you are around Munich in Germany you have the chance to buy on ebay.de a pretty good MKI version, ebay.de/itm/360656760482?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 .

Second, I've recorded a test video in very light wind with my new Rollei 100 Action Cam over the bow of my serenity, I need to place it better and pointing higher, but it's not so bad you don't see my face but intead the nice colors of Serenity deck in the sunset... youtube.com/watch?v=fzv5G6owOGI&list=UUV0iS9yzGohE0dl3MJVa9Vg&index=2
add www. and copy in a new web browser page

Nakaniko Unregistered
22nd May 2013, 12:59 PM
One thing more. I use a simple system to tack easily, but I don't know if it works only whith the straight and higher rails (especially on the bow) of MKII or also with the more rounded MKI ones.
The system is to always think that Serenity works sometime in the opposite way compared to a common board, so after passing on the other side of the board you can push with your HEELS to submerge the curved windward rail when starting moving and so the board will turn DOWNwind, instead upwind like all other boards. I use this system also whan jibing and in every other situation I need to turn almost quickly. It's using the feet for turning like on a planning board, but... in the opposite way! A brain exercise togheter with the physical one of windsurfing, imho.
Imho again and sorry for my bad english

Alena
18th June 2013, 04:58 PM
Serenity is the best thing I ever got for my windsurfing and I never get skunked anymore.
Instead of rigging a board with a 10 meter sail, I take the Serenity out with a 7.5. It goes upwind so nice you can go sight seeing with it.
And catches waves incredibly, so you sail fully powered 1/2 of the hull is up in the air and just fly with the wave.
It is smooth sailing and the boards lifts up and is not affected by crossing waves, no bumps on the road.
And very easy to lift up.
I call her the Princess
Alena

Unregistered
3rd July 2013, 09:03 PM
Have to say the alternative for me wouldn't be SUP, rather RS D2.
Not quite the light wind glide perhaps, but way more range

jmunkki
4th July 2013, 07:08 AM
I wonder if it would be possible to build a 2-part or 3-part Serenity that you bolt together for windsurfing and undo for transportation & storage? It's a very light wind board, so I assume the stresses on the hull aren't quite as bad as on a slalom board. I've never tried one - it's frequently enough sufficiently windy here for a formula or large slalom board (I've gone back to using the Hypersonic on light wind days after a few years on an iSonic). It's not surprising that niche/experimental boards are discontinued after a few years to make room for new "experiments" or just fashion trends that expand the whole scope of the company (like SUP). SUP is really booming in Finland.