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AlexWind
26th April 2007, 01:10 AM
What a title huh? B)

Well I've been reading the Svein Rasmussen article on Uk Windsurf magazine and I've been wandering about his opinion on formula windsurfing "over 11 meters" sails.

No normal human being would even like to pull it out of the water he sais.

That's true! And I've read several times about team testers and sailors exausted for having sailed too long in FW equipement.

Are these way too big sails really necessary? Why for instance work in light and powerfull gears like i.e. Severne Glide?
It seams they've done a good work with that sail.

FW is not only a racing machine: many peolpe uses it to sail in marginal conditions (and the Apollo project is working even better in this way..). Many people buy formula for this intent..
So, as soon as the sails size is moved back to "normal being" size, they could be more and more people who can say: "Hey, why not even try a regatta?"
It'd be nice..

What do you think about that? (Directed to team starboard and normal recreational windsurfer :) )

Ken
26th April 2007, 04:14 AM
I can't speak for the Team, but I have formula gear with an 11.0 as my largest sail. I may race formula 3 or 4 times a year, but I spend 80% of my recreational sailing time on the Formula board and race sails.

On a 8-12 knot day, I want to go as fast as possible, upwind and downwind, and the only thing that makes that happen is the formula gear.

With a little experience, you almost never drop the sail in these conditions. If the wind picks up to 15-18 knots, I have a tough time with the 11. However, I have an "Easy Up Haul" for both my 11.0 and my 9.5 in case I drop the sail.

Most of those out on 7.5's and 8.5's in 8 to 12 knots aren't planing, unless they are lightweights or on a wide, high volume board. If they are planing, they can't keep up with the formula board and 11.0

Ken

o2bnme
26th April 2007, 05:41 AM
I figure let the people who want 11's and 12.5's have them. I'm happy with my 9.8 for now. I figure people bigger than me will want a larger sail to plane as early as I do with the 9.8. I guess that means I should be able to plane even earlier with the 10+ sail sizes, but I'm happy as it is.

I never read the article you are referring to, so it is hard to discuss the points he brings up.

I do recall trying a friends 12.5 once. I was on it for less than 15 minutes. He wanted to see me plane in next to no wind. I was able to get his gear up on a plane and going as he hoped. The next day, my back was sore from uphauling that monster sail. That's when I decided I wasn't going that route for now.

barks
26th April 2007, 02:09 PM
I really don't see the problem. It's not like you're forced to use a big sail if you don't want to. Besides, some lighter sailors have proved very competitive without the largest sails. Jesper V (arguably the best FW sailor right now) seldom used more than 10.7 even in light winds last year, and did pretty well...

However, I regularly sail with a Vapor 12 in light winds and do not find it a hassle at all. True, I might be able to plane as early with a very soft/grunty 10.5 or so (if there was such a sail?) but I doubt it'd have the range of my 12. The 12 gets me going in like 9 knots (I'm no master pumper) but in the other end I'm still relatively comfortable untill the wind gets above 18ish knots. At that point I've felt overpowered on smaller softer freerace sails with less stiff foils.

Also, planing is one thing, getting upwind is something else. I get going at close to the same point with my 11 (that feels easier to pump) but once going the 12 goes way higher in low winds.

As for uphauling I have no idea why not everyone uses an Easy-Uphaul or similar. Heck, it's not like you have to buy the original (I don't) but a little piece of downhaul line tied onto your regular uphaul does the job. No hassle and it saves a load of energy. I'm 95 kg and can easily uphaul my 12 by hand, but I don't see why I should. I'd way rather spend my energy actually sailing.

AlexWind
26th April 2007, 04:11 PM
For those who hasn't read the article yet:

http://www.star-board.com/images/2007/news/SVEIN_WindsurfUK_Apr07.pdf

Despite the "strong" title, I'd like to discuss about this point. I'm agree with Mr. Rasmussen but many othere could have different opinions ;)

According to 12.5 meters, since I've read about many sore backs even in team riders I argue it's more or less a necessity to have souch big sails in one's equipement, maybe I'm wrong.
I know many competitors are smaller sails though..
Come on, replies replies replies ;)

Guest
26th April 2007, 05:07 PM
If you wanna sail for recreational purpose don't buy a Formula,go for a big freerace/ride board with a big no cam sail . You'll get on plane a bit later than a formula and,maybe,you'll have a smaller optimal wind range but everything else will be usefull .
I compete in formula and want go as highest and deepest as possible regardless of sail size.I'm faster on 10,7 and when in bigger sail I spend a lot of energy but it's the game!
Formula CAN'T be used if not well trained and skilled.People should know this!

Remi
26th April 2007, 05:59 PM
Hi All,

The manufacture like Severne & Neil Pryde don't produce anymore 12 or 12,5 sails. They found that it's not necessary to have so big sails on a formula board, the extra weight kill the performances.
So their bigger size are right now 11,6 and 11,8 and they are faster in light wind than the old 12,5.
Let's see in a near future if they can do a 11m who is beter than the current 11,6 and 11,8 in light winds.

All the best

AlexWind
26th April 2007, 06:18 PM
Well the formula is a racing machine but I also see formulas used by recreational sailors. Maybe not the last model but they've been used even in this situations.
It's not a matter of skill or training: team riders are of course skilled and trained but they also suffer of sore backs and so on, so there must be a "problem" somewhere..


Thanks Remi for your post.
Now we have the technology in order to make a sail fast. It's no more question about "how square meters" the sail is but it's a matter of profile, cut, "deepness" and so on..
I'm glad to see the market is moving this way.

If one thing is accessible to more people, than more people would even start competing, maybe only in little events..
Why not making then Formula accessible for more "normal human being"?
And don't forget the women!

Would a "non bigger than X square meter sail" rule help? I don't know for sure, maybe it would..

mark h
26th April 2007, 09:56 PM
I'd love to have a 10m that was as powerfull as my NS 11m & 11.9m Warps, I would get one straight away. But at 105kg, until they develope a super powerfull 10m I'll have to stick with super size sails.

ThierryP
27th April 2007, 06:27 AM
I read the article. Svein is spot on. The idea is (of course) not to prevent manufacturers from making 12m sails for guys who are 100 kgs, have the backs and shoulders to take this type of pressure on their bodies, or the lack of foresight to anticipate serious problems once they are over 40 (or are not planning to live to that age). The idea is to have a maximum sail size for RACING in the Formula class, to oblige sails designers to focus on making 10 m sails (or whatever size) that will be just as efficient as 12 m sails are today. Then Mark h, and all of us, can have our cake and eat it too! It is by limiting the number of tyres a racer can use, or prohibiting slick tyres in Formula 1, that we consumers get better tyres. Turbos were truly developed (the technology had existed for decades) when engine capacities were restricted for certain types of racing. By limiting the maximum size to 10m in racing, the sails designers woud only need to spend time designing a couple of sails sizes for Formula racing, which would result in outstanding sails, more manageable for everyone. Some brands would not offer to consumers anything bigger, and others would, just like today some brands have slalom racing sails down to 4.2 m, while others stop at 5.0.
AlexWind, congratulations on your choice of title, you got the attention that the subject deserves.
ThierryP

Guest
27th April 2007, 06:56 AM
Sails are getting slightly smaller at the big end of the sizes, but the weight is still going up.
Every year Mr Spanier has managed to increase the weight of each generation of racing sail from Nitro 1 to todays TR-3
Of course all his followers will say,"oh but the sail is so good" but that does not get way from the fact that for the past 8 years any improvement with performance has come at the expense of weight.
Maybe they stopped making the 12.5 becuase no one could lift it

geo
27th April 2007, 02:22 PM
I am not a Formula sailor, and my largest sail this season is 7.0. That said, consider my opinion as one from the outside.
A line must be drawn. Currently, the line is at 12.5 but it could be different. Some could say 15.0 is better than 12.5, why not? Just like others say that 10.0 is better. IMHO the point is that the line should be drawn where it better helps to fulfill the goals set.
It seems to me that the main goal should be to bring the most people to race, and IMHO again a 12.5 size limit does not work well in this regard. I do totally agree with Svein Rasmussen.

Ken
27th April 2007, 10:49 PM
The pros & other formula racers that have sore backs, do so because they try to carry the biggest sail possible for the wind conditions.

This means 9.0 to 10.0 sails in 25+ knots. Superman would have a sore back.

For the recreational formula racer / sailor like myself, I now resort to what is "reasonable and manageable" to finish the race. I have raced a 6.5 on my SB160 on a few occasions in 25+ knots, just so I could keep racing and finish.

I weigh 80kg and work on maximizing my efficiency with the smallest sail possible for the conditions. I have an 11.0, but spend more time on my 9.5 & 8.5 because they have much broader wind ranges than the 11.0. What I sacrifice by going smaller rather than larger is the deep downwind performance, a price I am willing to pay. I am not pro, so the only thing I risk if I rig too small, is the possible ego boost I may get by beating the other racers / sailors.

Ken

steveC
28th April 2007, 01:22 AM
Although I'm not a racer, I think that ThierryP has made some insightful points above. Limits of sorts have led to technological/performance developments that have ultimately filtered down to the general public. While I think that many restrictions in car racing have been implemented to promote safety, others were undoubtedly used to narrow the field to encourage more equal competition. All in all, rules and limits have worked well to level the playing field.

Yet, are rules and limits always advisable or productive? In windsurfing, like in many specialized sports, the physical characteristics of the participants has a significant influence on the nature of the competition and the final results. On top of that, age kind of always finds its way of affecting the balance too. Even the best performer eventually has to deal with the impact of age. So, to level the playing field and encourage participation amongst the broadest spectrum of possible participants, weight and age classes have been used successfully to achieve these goals. Notwithstanding the categorization strategies to fairly balance competition, there remains the pro class to define the highest level of competition.

In thinking about all the different forms of racing competition, I think that there should be a few formats targeting and promoting "all out" competition. For pro level formula racing, I find it hard to argue for eliminating 12 to 12.5m sails. Like some have noted above, these jumbo sails offer a valuable performance asset. Off hand, it can be argued that these larger sails stack the deck against the lighter weight participants to some degree, but if they were taken away, bigger sailors would be dealt a clear liability. In my opinion, there is nothing holding back sail designers from developing more powerful smaller sails to improve the performance capabilities of their smaller/lighter weight sailors. However, it must be remembered that sponsered sailors with all the prime physical and mental attributes are truly going to get the focus and attention, and they will ultimately define the sensible limits.

Yet, as discovered in 2005, there can be certain technological limits in the equipment that affects the viability of everything. So when 12 to 12.5 sails became super questionable because of sketchy masts that weren't up for the job, folks started to think differently. Now things are at the fork in the road. Some have abandoned the jumbo sizes, whereas others have not. I think that what we will see is improvement on either side of fence. If one path proves superior overall in a competitive environment, the direction will be clear. Patience is needed at this point to allow things to naturally evolve. A forced decision isn't an imperative right now, at least at the highest level of competition.

AlexWind
28th April 2007, 06:54 PM
I'm glad to see the topic has such many comments, all very precise and complete.

I'm agree with Thierry and geo: the development in racing (or extreme) conditions many times helped normal people to have better and better equipement, not only in windsurfing...

Now anyone can glide in much less wind than in the past thanks to wider boards, we can use cambered sails and go fast minimizing the rotating problems, many sails now have an incredible wind range.

The Severne Glide/Neil Pryde Helium are "sperimentation" or a bit more, that I think can be usefull both for rancing class and recreational sailors who want an easy ride with minimum drawbacks.

The question is not "a forced decision" steve, becouse there're always forced decisiona (even 12.5 limit is a decision, or 1 meter width..) but push the developers to make something for racing that can still be usefull for anyone. I mean that's the final purpose of racing in the end.. (or that's the ideological/marketing "excuse" B) )

o2bnme
28th April 2007, 09:04 PM
When this thread was started, I had just finished a week of sailing every day. Each day except one, I was able to get out and enjoy using a 4.8. Two days ago, I went out with my 9.8 (largest sail). My back was sore the next ... I sailed for 30 minutes that evening.

So, I am just reinforcing the fact that these big sails are big... very big. I can't imagine owning a 12.5!

With that said and reading the other comments, I think there is merit to the opinion that we need a smallest maximum sail size. I agree it would help us, the public get a more efficient sail.

There is a loophole though. What is stopping a pro from having a light wind 10.0m2 and a high wind 10.0m2?

Just trying to add to the discussion. I wonder if manufacturers would try to go this route to get the best of both worlds?

ThierryP
29th April 2007, 07:32 PM
"What is stopping a pro from having a light wind 10.0m2 and a high wind 10.0m2?"
Answer: a regulation that says you can only register one type of sail of each size (I didn't write "one sail": if a racer rips his sail, he can change it for a new one, but same type/dimensions). I am just answering the question, not advocating that rule; having the choice between a low wind and a high wind 10m sail should be a good thing for regular sailors.

AlexWind
30th April 2007, 02:10 AM
Well, this is not really a problem: they can do like North Sails does with Warp Slalom/Formula..
A 10 meter sail for low wind and a 9.9 for high wind ;)

TG
16th May 2007, 12:32 PM
Why should y'all care what I sail?

I enjoy my big sails; if you guys & Svein don't like it that's your problem. The up/down angle of the big one's is just better--and that's what make FW exciting. Again, if you can't pull it out of the water, that's not my problem.


I don't run around posting that a 3.3 is a wuss sail and should be banned, so if I enjoy holding down an 11.6 in conditions that most are on 4.8s that should likewise not be a problem for you.

Frankly, I think there's a big push on to leave 'lightwind' to the f'ing kiters, or to the horrible boredom of lightwind slalom (to sell all new stuff, like the huge and stupid isonic 155).

The problem with FW, is the same problem with real (highwind) slalom: it's not the sails, it's the arms-race, stupid! It costs to damn much for most people.


Peace.

geo
16th May 2007, 11:25 PM
I think that race rules limiting size to say 10.0 would not mean banning sales of 12.5 sails. You could always be using one at will. Of course, we may discover at that point that the market for such huge sails would shrink and maybe no one would produce them any longer. But that would be a different problem... after all, I just see the light again after years of good slalom materials being totally disregarded...

TG
17th May 2007, 12:04 PM
geo wrote:
I think that race rules limiting size to say 10.0 would not mean banning sales of 12.5 sails. You could always be using one at will. Of course, we may discover at that point that the market for such huge sails would shrink and maybe no one would produce them any longer. But that would be a different problem... after all, I just see the light again after years of good slalom materials being totally disregarded...

If we banned sails bigger than 10.0, there would be no races in most of the US, and elsewhere, nor would anybody make sails bigger than 11.0. Even lightweights use bigger sails than that.

geo
17th May 2007, 04:54 PM
Sorry I really meant 11.0, as suggested originally by Svein Rasmussen, of course.
Guess this would not change your opinion. Nevertheless the point in this discussion is that for most users and racers the need for 12.0 or more is a direct consequence of formula rules only and most would prefer a "dedicated light wind" smaller sail of no more than 11.0. Probably this would mean to trade some performance for use friendliness and lower costs, therefore making formula sailing/racing more appealing.
If this is not the point, then you're absolutely right.

G-42
18th May 2007, 12:02 AM
There's a FW class with its own set of rules - those are voted on by class members through a representative system at the AGM. So far, the class has resisted calls to limit sail sizes. You can speculate about why, but when I read this thread, I find that most posters who have strong opinions about the matter are not racing FW.

As an active FW racer, I find it ironic that others outside the class seem to have such an interest in the racing rules. It's for those inside the class to decide what game they want to play; considerations of making that game rewarding, as well as attracting others to it, will play into that decision process. But it's for those who are actually part of the class to make that decision. Input from others (such as Svein) will surely weigh in for many in the class, but again - the purpose of the class is to provide rewarding racing, not to benefit others outside in some way.

If the class goes wrong and makes itself so esoteric that participation dwindles, it's a sign that something went wrong. If the class waters down the racing and makes is so unrewarding that numbers dwindle, ... - you get the picture.

Time will tell - I just find it amusing that all these non-racers are ratcheting up the volume on this.

One more thing - someone made a comment earlier that surely the purpose of race gear development should be to create a trickle-down effect for recreational users. I call BS on that - the purpose of racing is competition. The purpose of developing gear for competition is to raise the level of performance. Classes make their own decisions on weighing cost and accessibility vs. performance.

FW is a great class for people like me who love to race, and love high-performance sailing. Light wind slalom bores me to death (note that I love slalom the way it's meant to be - high-wind). If I'm competing in 12 knots of breeze, I'd rather course race on Formula gear, as that's plenty exciting, plus tactical - it's simply a more interesting game to play than light air slalom for me. That's me - and that's my decision. Lots of people make those decisions, and as a result, you'll have participants enter one thing or another.

Getting hundreds of people on the line is cool. You can do that with 'everyman's' figure 8 courses. Or with Laser races. FW is NOT that - it's about all-out performance in a wide range of conditions, along with real tactics. Different game, and probably a different group of people playing it.

-Andreas
http://g-42.blogspot.com

G
18th May 2007, 01:00 AM
I totally agree with you Adreas.

geo
18th May 2007, 01:11 AM
Andreas,

not a racer as I said, not interested in FW racing and probably never will be; I am just talking about logic. And logic is not given for racers only.
You touched the point: FW is for FW insiders. You make your rules and are happy with them, others may join, or may not. I guess that what Svein Rasmussen was saying is that huge sails size limit could be keeping some people out of FW, that some might quit because of it and that someone else may be unhappy with it. Maybe a slightly smaller size limit would result in more appeal to FW with little enough performance loss. Maybe. And, by sure this time, more appeal to a racing class would lead to more people windsurfing, which is Svein's main concern. It seems logical to me, just that.

As for race gear development resulting on trickling down of some innovations to non racing gear, that is not the intended purpose of racing, but it is a matter of fact anyhow.

TG
18th May 2007, 04:53 AM
FW does push the boundaries of WS in a particular direction--it's an extreme part of an extreme sport. And not everyone needs do do it. But the joys of fast upwind/downwind sailing are there. , and they're unique.

Just as modern freestyle pushes the sport in a different way--I don't even know what some of that stuff those guys are doing is, but I like that they do it, just the same.

Nathan
18th May 2007, 09:49 AM
Maybe this is your answer, start or join Formula Experience events

Formula Experience Class Rules
subject to ISAF confirmation
(effective 1st April 2005)

4. Sail

4.1 The size and construction of the sail shall be optional

Youth and seniors: 11.0 Sq.m.: A maximum of 7 full width battens are permitted. The number of additional leach battens is free provided the length of each is not more than 25% of the distance from the leach to the luff along the centre line of the batten. A maximum of 3 cambers are permitted.

Doby
18th May 2007, 01:28 PM
Andreas, when FW started it was billed "the class for everyone" now everyone can racr with only one board and 3 sails. FW could have been that but see what happened. Most people were scared by the huge sails. Myself I bought 2 brand new sails a 10.2 and 8.5 and an AHD Daimond 72 the first year of the FW class. Next year I stopped because my gear was out of date. Never went back....

TG
18th May 2007, 01:55 PM
Doby wrote:
Andreas, when FW started it was billed "the class for everyone" now everyone can racr with only one board and 3 sails. FW could have been that but see what happened. Most people were scared by the huge sails. Myself I bought 2 brand new sails a 10.2 and 8.5 and an AHD Daimond 72 the first year of the FW class. Next year I stopped because my gear was out of date. Never went back....

I agree with that.

That's what killed Slalom in the first place too--the arms race. The industry solution seems always to be to create another class, not fix what we have. Formula Ex, is a great example. Shouldn't be needed at all if we'd kept to the FW concept in the first place.

I will say though, that the arms race has slowed somewhat--the first years of FW saw some needed and radical changes, but now they're incremental. I suspect a 2004 Starboard 158 is still competative in the right hands, with the right fin (if it hasn't fallen apart). Slalom gear hasn't changed much in years and years--iPods --I mean-- iSonics or whatever, the latest hype, not withstanding.

Remi
18th May 2007, 05:04 PM
Hi TG,

THe FE is exacltly the solution to your problems :

3 times cheaper and still have very good performances, but yes less than FW. And the equipment is lock until january 2010. With this class who is more accesible to everyone, you have differents contries who can do Formula. With out this class that will be impossible.

So is perfect to have very high level in FW particulary in senior class and FE for beguiner and all people who want have pleasure at a resonable cost. FE is a very good step to FW. Both class will win a lot like this.

For the F158 is completly out of the game compare to all the Formula Windsurfing you can found on the market right now. The big difference is in light wind and strong wind.

Slalom equipment change a lot since 3 years, and come back in competition with the new rules F42, because whe can plane earlier, so less race are cancell now. Organiser can invest again in slalom and this is really excellent.

The important point is to satisfy everybodies from beguiner to really high level.

All the best

van
18th May 2007, 08:13 PM
GUYS GUYS GUYS

I HAVEN'T READ WHAT SVEIN SAID BUT HERE IS MY OPINION FOR WHOEVER CARES TO READ IT.

IT ALL VERY MUCH DEPENDS WHERE THE WINDSURFING MANUFACTURERS WANT THIS SPORT TO HEAD TO. EVERYONE WANTS TO SELL MORE AND THE ONLY WAY TO DO SO IS MAKE THE SPORT MORE ACCESIBLE TO EVERYONE. NOW IF THEY WANT TO HAVE AN ELITIST FORM OF RACING SUCH AS FW THAT'S FINE. BUT THE SPORT HAS A LOT MORE COMPETITION NOWADAYS FROM KITESURFING ETC AND THERE WILL BE SOME LOSS THERE.

MY PERSONAL OPINION IS TO HAVE AS LESS FORMS OF COMPETION AS POSSIBLE (IE WAVE, SLALOM, FREESTYLE AND ONE MORE BE IT FW, OR WHATEVER) WHERE IT WILL BE CLASSED AS THE OLYMPIC CLASS AND WILL ATTRACT THE MOST COMPETITORS EACH COMPETING WITH SAME OR SIMILAR EQUIPMENT AND WHERE THE WORLD CHAMPION CAN REALLY BOAST AS BEING THE BEST OF THE MASSES NOT THE BEST OF THE 100 FEW.

IN ORDER TO DO SO U HAVE TO MAKE IT POSSIBLE THAT ANYONE WITH A REASONABLE BUDGET CAN ROCK UP ONE WEEK END AND RACE AGAINST THE REGULARS. AND IN ORDER TO DO SO YOU HAVE TO LIMIT THE GEAR DOWN TO SAY ONE BOARD AND 2 SAILS. ONLY THEN I THINK THE SPORT WILL GROW DOWN THE LINE FROM FATHER TO SON ETC. IF YOU NEED 3 BOARDS AND 7 SAILS TO GO RACING THE SPORT WILL REMAIN FOR THE FEW PREVILIDGED THAT CAN AFFORD TO SPEND THIS MONEY.

IN ORDER TO DO THIS A LIMIT HAS TO BE SET TO 12-11-10 METER SAILS OR WHATEVER BUT A LIMIT HAS TO BE SET. ONCE THIS IS SET THEN THE SPORT CAN EVOLVE THROUGH THESE LIMITS. AND IN DOING SO THE SPORT WILL EVOLVE AND GROW.

NOW IF A GUY IS 105 KG AND WANTS TO WINDSURF RECREATIONALLY WITH A 12M SAIL THAT'S FINE AND GOOD FOR HIM . BUT FOR RACING THAT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF THE SPORT. I AM A MEMBER IN A CLUB IN GREECE THAT HAS ABT 80 TO 100 MEMBERS AND NONE OF THEM OWN ANYTHING MORE THAN A 9.5 AND I ASSURE YOU LESS THAN HALF ARE WAVE/FREESTYLE SURFERS. MOST OF THEM ARE JUST GUYS/GIRLS HOW LIKE TO PLAIN WIDSURF.

SO THE 4TH FORM OF RACING I THINK SHOULD REFLECT THE GENERAL MARKET AND SHOULD BE LIMITED TO SAY 10M OR THERE ABTS.

TG
19th May 2007, 01:51 AM
Remi wrote:
Hi TG,

THe FE is exacltly the solution to your problems :

3 times cheaper and still have very good performances, but yes less than FW. And the equipment is lock until january 2010. With this class who is more accesible to everyone, you have differents contries who can do Formula. With out this class that will be impossible.

So is perfect to have very high level in FW particulary in senior class and FE for beguiner and all people who want have pleasure at a resonable cost. FE is a very good step to FW. Both class will win a lot like this.

For the F158 is completly out of the game compare to all the Formula Windsurfing you can found on the market right now. The big difference is in light wind and strong wind.

Slalom equipment change a lot since 3 years, and come back in competition with the new rules F42, because whe can plane earlier, so less race are cancell now. Organiser can invest again in slalom and this is really excellent.

The important point is to satisfy everybodies from beguiner to really high level.

All the best


I have nothing against FE; but there is none around here, and they've limited it to 11.0 meters, so it's essentially a juniors or lightweight class.

And I don't like Slalom 4/2: lightwind slalom is boring.

Remi
19th May 2007, 06:54 AM
Hi TG,

Sorry but my weight si 87 kgs and the FE with 11 m² is find for me, so this equipement is perfect. And I can tell you that light weight have advantage only in 6 to 8 knots only. You may try it.

From wich contry you are?

All the best

SeanAUS120
19th May 2007, 07:36 PM
I only just came across this post so I'm probably replying to more so the earlier posts than the latter... but just a thought from someone who is racing Formula internationally and involved in organising events on a national level...

I wonder whether making the limit 11.0m will breed a new type of discontent from the sailors who aren't full-time racers? ... I'm referring to the guys who race on a national/local level only and only sail on weekend usually - as they're the backbone of the class, not the full-time pros and top national sailors.

In Australia (where formula is VERY healthy), we are seeing that there's not as many new people coming into the class. The main reason isn't the costs, its because the fleet (who have been racing for 5 years) have got so good that newbie's are sooooo far behind in the races its embarrassing. Then they quit.

I race with 10.7m as biggest and am currently sitting in 5th at the Dutch FW Championships using an 9.5m RSX sail (racing against people on 12.0's). I'm getting up there because I'm happy to pump the entire downwinds and maybe 10-20% of the upwind. Think you're body is ready for that?? I don't think the average sailor wants to take fitness to that extreme level and do the sorts of damage an RSX sailor does to his body on a daily basis. Its not really that fun.

By having 12.0m sails, the older guys who don't like to pump can get on the plane with minimal effort. If you gave them a 11.0 they can plane in the same wind but they need to pump. I'm not sure if this would be the case in Europe but in Australia I think you'd find a lot of the older guys would quit because they don't have the fitness to pump off the startline for 200m and wouldn't ever get planing.

I’m all for keeping the class fixed at 12.5m. Why change. Its just a thought... I don't know what the answer is to make a discipline popular. It just seems everything in windsurfing these days is just a "fad"... just thought I'd bring it up though.

Interesting post so far...