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Guest
26th April 2007, 08:14 AM
Hi Roger
I just stumbled upon this Serenity board and it looks amazing in Video.
It is so gracefull. I am looking for a board that will plane under 10 knots or at least feel good and fast, it seems Serenity is it?
I weigh 130 pounds (before breakfast) and do have a 10 M sail.
I windsurf OK. Do you think that is a good choice?
And how is it better than Formula wide boards? And how does it compare to Kona?:)
Thanks a lot

Alena

Roger
26th April 2007, 09:15 AM
Hi Alena,
Yes, the Serenity is a very amazing concept!
It's both fast in light winds and very graceful, slicing over the water and through the chop like a scalpel.
The Serenity does not really "plane" (although I suspect that depends on how you define "planing" ) but the bow wave does move back when you get it going.
Your 10 m2 sail would not be needed on the Serenity, but you can certainly use a sail that large.
The Serenity "glides" over the water so easily, it does not really need a large rig.
7.5-8.5 is as big as I would ever consider, but I've sailed the Serenity with 9.0 m2.
Problem is the larger rigs are a bit more difficult to balance, and the
Serenity is a bit challenging to balance on in the transitions.
It's better than formula wide boards because it glides along in winds
(2-7 knots) that won't get the wide boards planing, even with the largest rigs.
The Kona is probably a better board for higher winds, but the Serenity sails circles around the Kona in < 6 knots.
Hope this helps,

James
27th April 2007, 12:31 AM
I agree with Roger. The Serenity is an amazing board. It doesn&#39;t plane, but it really feels good and fast in less than 10 knots.

I used to have a formula board. It was great in 10-15 knots, but it was frustrating if there wasn&#39;t quite enough wind to plane, because then I would be going slow while struggling to carry a big sail. The advantage of the Serenity is that it doesn&#39;t need a big sail, and you don&#39;t have to worry about "will I be able to plane?".

Now I have a Kona. It&#39;s easy to ride, and it&#39;s fun when it&#39;s on a plane. But when the winds are < 10 knots I wish I had a Serenity.

Jean-Marc
27th April 2007, 04:41 AM
Tested today the Serenity with NP RX2 10.6 sail in slowly increasing 4-8 knots of wind (over 1 hr) with 70 cm fin, and in slowly decreasing 8-4 knots of wind (over 1 hr) with 40 cm fin. I&#39;m 183 cm tall and weight 65 kg.

IMHO, the board does plane in the sense that when the hull just below the carry handle climbs over the bow wave, half of the hull is out and above the water surface when being overpowered in...8 knots of wind. This is starting to be a bit tipsy and scary, especially when the large 70 cm fin wants to overturn the board upside down. The shorter Shallow 41 cm fin does increase the control in overpowered mode, however.

In 4 knots of wind, it does not plane, the first 25% of the nose (around the feet of the painted Tiki on the deck) is out of water when the hull is gliding silently (with only a sssssss sound) through water. The most surprise is the silence made by the hull when sailing in such low wind, hence its aptly name Serenity.

For me, a great ride from 4 up to 8 knots. At 7-8 knots, I keep the same 10.6 sail and just switch for a planing board. Not tested yet below 4 knots of wind but I guess I would need enough low wind to still be able to steer the board. More tests later (e.g., with smaller sails and fins in higher wind).

test with 70 cm fin :
http://mytrims.com/mytrims/trim4.asp?trimID=18206
test with 41 cm fin
http://mytrims.com/mytrims/trim4.asp?trimID=18210

Cheers !

JM

Roger
27th April 2007, 07:43 AM
Hi JM,
I&#39;d really be interested in your "my trims data" (GPS?) with a good 60 cm race fin.
I&#39;ve found the smaller fin to be a good bit faster in very light winds with smaller sails (7.5 Severne Glide and 7.2 Sailworks NX slm), and the Serenity still goes upwind very well.
I&#39;ve found the 70 cm fin that comes with the Serenity to be a bit "cathcie" (it loads one way, goes through neutral and then "&#39;catches"very hard the other way) in transitions, and I&#39;ve not felt that I was losing much upwing angle or speed with the smaller fin.
Try a smaller rig and fin and I think you will be even more stoked on the < 12 knot performance of the Serenity.
I&#39;ve sailed it with a 5.6 m3 Sailworks Hucker and a 32 cm Lessacher Design or 32 cm Tangent Dynamics weed fin in < 4 knots and it still cruises right along.
Might try the mast foot more forward and try to keep the nose down (per Jim Drake) even when going faster as the board slips through the water better with the nose in the water.
Hope this helps,

Jean-Marc
27th April 2007, 02:13 PM
Hi Roger,

Yep, got the GPS onboard but batteries went dead after 2 min...next time for sure I&#39;ll get new ones.

As said, this was a short 2x1 hrs test, so still a lot more tweaking and fine-tuning to do with sails and fins like I&#39;m doing with HS105. I felt I can further extend the range of use just by switching fins and I bet a 32 cm fin would still be rideable for extra speed once overpowered in 8 knots with the 10.6 sail: large fin for low speed in low wind, small fin for high speed in higher wind.

Agree, the large 70 cm fin makes the board more slow to react during transitions than the Shallow 41 cm fin, but I&#39;ve found that when standing on the tail just behind the fin and rolling/tilting the board on the appropriate rail, tacking (tilting the leeward rail) or jibing (tilting the windward rail) can be done very quickly with a very short turning radius.

With the 10.6 sail, the mast track was set at 50% . I did notice that when feet placement were located between the carry handle and mastfoot (i.e., body weight more forward), the hull glides and slices more gently through small chop when going deep upwind. When I stood behind the carry handle (i.e., body weight more backward), the front hull kind of splash every top of chop, with greater vibrations being transmitted along the entire hull (you can actually see the nose tip shaking up and down). So, more stance tuning will be needed, I agree !

Cheers !

JM

Jean-Marc
27th April 2007, 02:56 PM
Alena,

You can&#39;t compare a Formula and Serenity in light wind. These are in 2 distinct leagues IMHO.

With your 58 kg and 10 m2 sail, I guess you can plane in 6-7 knots of wind with a Formula. Below that, you will be shlogging at no more than 5 knots hull speed (and it&#39;s becoming rather dull with time).

The Serenity is way faster than a Formula in shlogging mode, especially in 4-7 knots of wind, or even less (not tested yet). Nothing dull when gliding in such low wind, quite stocked in fact...! What I&#39;ve found with my 10.6 sail in 4 knots of wind is that when the Serenity starts to move forward, the pressure on the sail starts to increase as well and I do need to hook in with the harness. Kind of with increasing apparent wind speed, the Serenity accelerates and glides effortlessly over flat water at quite an impressive speed (I wouldn&#39;t be surprised to reach a hull speed at twice the true wind speed or more). I never experienced that when schlogging with a conventional board. This is unique to the Serenity so far.

In winds at and above 7 knots, I&#39;ll be curious to compare side by side the planing HS105 with the gliding Serenity. So far with the same 10.6 sail, the top range of Serenity is about 8 knots with its 70 cm fin, higher with its Shallow 41 cm fin (cannot say if board is the limiting factor as yet), but with HS105 and a 40 cm fin, 12 knots is the top range I can go, the sail and not the board being the limiting factor with my light weight. I feel I really don&#39;t need a Formula or an Apollo to fill the gap between a Serenity and a HS105 for my light weight in light wind. Both nicely complement each other.

Try a Serenity if you can in winds below 7 knots with your 10 m2 sail, I bet you&#39;ll be stocked as I&#39;m.

Cheers !

JM

Ian Fox
28th April 2007, 05:52 AM
Try a smaller sail, really !
It can be even more enjoyable with something easy and soft/er around 7-8m.

At first, everyone just thinks to throw more sail at it like FW and power it into performance.

STOP. right there.

This thing has a LOT more to offer than just outright "speed".

It&#39;s much more about the experience more than the performance.
(strange comment coming from me, agree, but it&#39;s true)

Cheers ~ Ian

PS : Jim officially estimated my board speed between 4 and 5kts in zero wind. That was consistant pumping (actually "fanning" in case of Serenity+7.5m Glide+70cm). Yes, there were plenty of fishing pole flags on the pure glass course to indicate "nothing". And it was dawn.

Guest
28th April 2007, 10:07 AM
Thanks a lot everybody.
I am looking at replacing my Mistral Malibu for low wind sailing. I have a Mistral Flow for higher winds over 15 knots.
I am definitely going to try the Serenity it is just so beautiful looking in the Videos.
The problem is that nobody is saying anything about what happens on the Serenity in winds 10-15 knots and how much fun relatively speaking does one get than? Is it still "serene"?

By the way I do not care about the actual speed I move in as long as it feels fast. I do not have a need to compete or measure the speed and could not care less. I do dislike shlogging.

Do you know at what wind speed would the Kona plane with a large sail?

I buy a new board very rarely and want to make a good choice that I will be happy with for a few years (like 15 years)
Thanks again
Alena

Roger
28th April 2007, 11:46 AM
Hi Alena,
I&#39;ve sailed the Serenity in a very wide range of conditions.
20-25 knots with a 4.2 m2 Sailworks Hucker (the Serenity gets "scary fast in flat water with a 32 cm Tangent Reaper weed fin in these conditions) on very flat water and it was super "exciting".
I&#39;ve sailed the Serenity in 12-16 knots with 5.6/6.6 Huckers and 7.2 m2 SW NX slm, as well as with the 7.5 m2 Severne Glide.
That&#39;s the beauty of the Serenity, you will never "slog" as long as there&#39;s at least some wind, but you can sail in all conditions up to where you want to start sailing your Flow and be "challenged" throughout the entire range.
Beyond 15 knots, you Flow may be more fun, as you can only go so fast on the Serenity, but even when it&#39;s maxed out, it&#39;s still challenging.
As I said before, I&#39;ve sailed the Kona, and if you wanted to go racing, the Kona would be a better choice as there&#39;s now a Kona class at most races in the USA.
If you just want to free sail, the Serenity is probably better as it will sail circles around the Kona in < 6-7 knots of wind.
The Kona will be in slog mode in < 6 knots, but the Serenity will go nicely, and will not require a huge sail to do it.
Hope this helps,

Randy
29th April 2007, 03:52 AM
Jean-Marc perhaps you and I were separated at birth - we both like the same kind of boards. (Hypersonic and Serenity). I&#39;ve sailed my Serenity 14 times now, with sails from 6.0 to 8.5, but mostly with 7.4. With the large fin the 8.5 was really unecessary. I don&#39;t know if Serenity "planes", yet it can move very fast riding mostly above the water, on the fin. In that mode, the board is challenging, and even sort of scary. More fun is lighter winds (say 5-10 mph) when it can really fly and be a real pleasure to sail with 7.4.

As for 10-15, it can be sailed in that range, though I think a conventional board would be more fun.

Guest
29th April 2007, 09:26 AM
Roger
I am definitely going to try the Serenity. But if that does not work out, what board do you think would be the best for me to replace the Mistral Malibu?
I have a Mistral Flow for higher winds and need a board for low winds up to 15 knots at which point the Mistral Flow takes over.
I have sails up to 10 meter. What do you think?
And by the way did you go to Bonaire this year and how was it?
Thanks Alena

clarkr2
2nd May 2007, 05:10 AM
Hello all;
Does anybody know where the Serenity might be "test-driven" this summer, in Eastern Canada or in the Northeastern U.S. ?
Clark,
Montréal

Roger
2nd May 2007, 07:54 AM
Hi Clark,
The "A Taste of Windsurfing" and Starboard/Sailworks demo tour will be just down the road from you in Plattsburgh, NY on July 7-8th.
We will be working with APVM (Montreal WS Club) and the
Adirondak Boardsailing Club.
Also, if you travel to Hatteras, the new Sailworld Avon shop (between Villiage Video and Nino&#39;s Pizza) has at least one Serenity in their demo fleet.
Hope this helps,

Guest
2nd May 2007, 12:50 PM
I&#39;ve got a Kona - extremely versatile board. Excellent in the 15-20 knot range planing, and reasonably nice in say 8-12 knots cruising with a 6 to 7.5 m sail. It won&#39;t plane nearly as early as a Formula or even quite as early as a big freeride will, but it &#39;slogs&#39; way faster - but not nearly as quick as the Serenity. If I lived where the wind was seldom over 10 or 12 knots, the Serenity would be way more fun I&#39;m sure (I&#39;ve never sailed one yet). The Kona is pretty bulletproof too, whereas the Serenity sounds a bit fragile - I expect it feels a bit like sailing a violin - I doubt you want to try chucking it around. Must be great to take on keelboats in light airs though! Anyone done that yet?
Morley

Guest
2nd May 2007, 12:52 PM
I&#39;ve got a Kona - extremely versatile board. Excellent in the 15-20 knot range planing, and reasonably nice in say 8-12 knots cruising with a 6 to 7.5 m sail. It won&#39;t plane nearly as early as a Formula or even quite as early as a big freeride will, but it &#39;slogs&#39; way faster - but not nearly as quick as the Serenity. If I lived where the wind was seldom over 10 or 12 knots, the Serenity would be way more fun I&#39;m sure (I&#39;ve never sailed one yet). The Kona is pretty bulletproof too, whereas the Serenity sounds a bit fragile - I expect it feels a bit like sailing a violin - I doubt you want to try chucking it around. Must be great to take on keelboats in light airs though! Anyone done that yet?
Morley

Guest
7th May 2007, 03:38 AM
As Roger noted, the Kona is no match for the Serenity in subplanning. In fact the Kona is no match for ANY dedicated board in the conditions these boards are made for. Comparing the Kona to the Serenity in subplanning is like comparing the Kona to an Evo in waves. The Kona however does both.
The strength of the Kona is its scope, both for sailing conditions and rider&#39;s level. If you can afford a quiver and always have the right board at the right time with you – don’t buy a Kona.

Any chance that the Serenity will come as a two parts assembly?

Ilan