View Full Version : Starsurfer Medium
16th August 2006, 09:13 PM
Hi Roger, nice site, love the new products...the Phantom replaces the Hybrid Carve? Ah, to be a better sailor and have access to all the boards to try out..
For now I am interested in a 2004 Starsurfer medium. I understand that the warranty maybe void if a sailor over 40 kg uses the board?
You may recall from an earlier post I am considering this board from my two boys (70-85 lbs ages 9 and 11) and for occassional use by my wife. The warranty limitation may have me reconsider.
On what board size (volume) do you normally introduce kids in that weight/age range?
Sorry 3 questions in one post.
17th August 2006, 01:33 AM
I am interested in seeing Roger's response as well, but I would suggest a Rio S or the new Phantom, if the warranty concern makes you not want to get that 2004 Starsurfer.
The Rio S is actually the exact same shape as what used to be the Starsurfer M in 2004-2005 model years, with a little more thickness, and of course a retractable centerboard. (This confirmed earlier this year with an email exchange with Svein, when I was shopping for family boards.) I have not sailed it, but the reviews I have read (for instance in Windsport last year) were pretty decent.
The other alternative would be the new Phantom, not sure how that will be with the smaller kids though versus the Rio S. I would bet it will cost over $1000, though, versus the much cheaper Rio.
I am planning to get a second recreational board in the spring so I can get both my wife and 11-year-old daughter out at the same time, and the two I am thinking of at this point are the Rio S and the Phantom.
You might be able to get a good deal on and 2006 Rio S here at the end of the season. MSRP is the U.S. is $849, I believe, you could probably get it for way less.
17th August 2006, 10:59 AM
I had that board, as an 80 kg adult. There is no weight issue with the medium as far as I know.
It is a great board, very fast for its weight, quite under rated. I think the Start and Rio S boards are still based on the same shape.
I never taught anyone on it but I would imagine it would be quite good.
17th August 2006, 11:22 PM
Hi Andrew and Pete,
Here's a couple of little situations I've discovered in the last 5 years of teaching several hundred women and kids per year.
On the first day on the water, the success rate goes way up if you put the newbies on both a simulator (so they have power control, steering, and tacking/turning around skills.
Then we take take them out on the water on the largest board available.
Why? For 2 reasons.
First, so I can "ride along" which takes all the "fear factors and "what if's" away as I so often tell them (did this yesterday) I'm coming back to shore, the board and rig are coming back to shore, so therefore THEY will be coming back to shore.
Secondly, having the big wide platform, and a "coach" allows them to not have to worry much about stability, and focus on learning how to make the board move, turn in the direction they want it to go, and turn around when they want to head back in the other direction.
So, for their intial "voyage" so to speak, it's very important that you use a really large , wide and stable board.
After that initial "voyage", the student has learned to balance on the board,, steer it, turn it around, and sail it back to where they started.
Depending on the student's weight and size (I weight about 175 #/ 79.3 Kg. now) I either ride along with the kids or small women (< 120 lb.s/ 54 Kg.) or use a short tether that keeps about a board length and a half between the coach and the student.
So, for your small kids, the Starsurfer M (my catalogue suggests there's only one size '04 Starsurfer and it's 88 liters) the Starsurfer might work OK, but for your wife it's going to be a bit small.
I've used the Rio S and Start S in the last couple of years, for kids that do well on their initial "voyage" as a "slighty more advanced) lesson where we use the tether until they show me that they have full control, and then they sail around on their own, but unless the child is really small, they let me know that the board feels alot smaller. Most can by this time in their fledgling WS career make the adjustments but I've had a few (usually over 100 #/ 45/Kg.) say they wanted a larger board.
Here's the "deal" on this.
Normally, you only get one chance to have your students/family decide that they either like windsurfing or they don't .
If you use a board or rig that's any more difficult than whatever the best you can get 1s, you significantly reduce the possibility for a positive "I can do this and I want to do it more" outcome.
Even if you need to rent a big board and tiny performance rig for that first time on the water, it's a very good idea (and investment) to do so, because once the "switch" (in the students mind) goes from "I can do this and it's fun" to "This isn't fun and I don't want to try to do it anymore" you've pretty much lost the one golden opportunity.
I don't have all the "warranty statistics" from '04, but everyone I know who bought Starsurfer has had pretty good service. Never heard of anyone breaking one in half.
In summary, after that first time on the water, and once you know your kids have "got it" the Starsurfer might be a perfect board for them.
For your wife, I think a Rio S would have alot more potential to be "ideal".
Hope this helps,
18th August 2006, 12:51 AM
Thanks Roger. This makes sense I can rent a Start at a local store and go from there. I will clarify volume of the Starsurfer 2004 Medium and warranty with the distributor (their site shows it as 140 L with removable center fin). Or go after the Rio...B)
18th August 2006, 01:21 AM
Thanks, great explanation of requirements for "first times out" and later for "after they get the basics down".
I know what you mean, my wife got the hang of it last year on the Start M, and cursed me when I sold it and replaced it with the more "tippy" Viper 80. But she already had the basics down and was able to hone her skills for the narrower board. Had I tried to start her from scratch on the Viper, it may have been a different story.
I almost lost that window of opportunity you speak about above with my 10-year-old earlier this year, took her out in the Viper in too rough of conditions, and the water was still very cold, and I had to tow her back in. Luckily she gave it another try with a lesson in Hatteras in June and is now continuing to give it a try and is improving each time out. I will be getting both of them more lessons.
For my wife (~140 pounds, 5'9") and now 11-year-old (100-110 pounds) for a second board, do you think the Rio S or the Phantom would be a better choice, given our other board is a Viper 80? I know you haven't seen or sailed the Phantom, but I would imagine you can guess by the stats, 300 x 80, 220L. The Phantom is very similar to the Viper, same width, 20 cm longer, 30L more float, whereas the Rio S is way shorter (235 versus 280) but a bit wider, and likely has a much smaller centerboard. Another potential choice would be to get the 85 cm Viper, which I believe is 280 x 85 and 220L.
The main purpose for the second recreational board is so that the wife and daughter could both sail at the same time.
(BTW, I took the Rio M off my list as I can't get anything wider than 85 cm without significant reconfiguration to my trailer!...)
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