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Per
9th May 2007, 01:01 AM
Hi.
I got a 8.5 T-Bird (no cam freerace) which i use for my Aero 127. A very nice combination.
Any experience about which (Star) board will give the earliest planing and most power with an 8.5 as max?
The Aero releases surprisingly well and balance is good. It's not really speedy though..
:p

Guest
9th May 2007, 04:40 AM
My guess would be one of the F-Types/large Isonics. Maybe even a real formula, but those tend to trim horribly with such a small sail, especially for someone who is not really lightweight.

rod_r
9th May 2007, 06:15 AM
Hi Per
I rode an Ftype 158 with an 8.5 and it was the earliest I ever got going. A local guy routinely uses an 8.5 Retro with his 158 as well. I'd guess that board would be the best in combination with your 8.5 for earliest planing, and as "guest" said, be a better fit than a formula.

I now have a 2001 F155 woodie which is almost as early planing, and just as much fun.

Jean-Marc
9th May 2007, 06:52 AM
Per,

It really depends on your weight. The heavier you are, the wider the board and the deeper the fin should be.

With my 65 kg, I can start and sustain planing with the same racing 8.2 sail as following :
11 knots of wind with Carve 111 and 40 cm fin
10 knots of wind with HS105 and 40 cm fin
10 knots of wind with iSonic 133 and 48 cm fin
10 knots of wind with Formula and 54 or 70 cm fin

So, it looks like a width of 77 cm is optimal for my weight and I don't really gain anything with something larger than that.

Cheers !

JM

o2bnme
9th May 2007, 07:11 AM
I agree with Per for the 8.x sail sizes. If you are willing to go with a bigger size sail, you can get out in less wind. I am 65 kg as well.

I take my 8.0 Retro out on my F-Type and have a blast. I have found a 66cm fin works well with this sail for my style of sailing. My next smaller board is a 73cm wide AHD race board. It does very well in the same conditions, but doesn't plane up quite as early as my F-Type 148. The extra 23cm in width does make a difference, but it is a small one. I find it makes more of a difference in staying on a plane. I can float through much bigger lulls on the F-Type 148 compared to my AHD GTS73. Also, I can point higher with the F-Type. With the wider boards, you lose the ability to get a good carve jibe though.

So, I guess I'm agreeing with Per except to say there are other factors worth considering while sailing ... upwind and the ability to plane through lulls.

Per
9th May 2007, 07:07 PM
Thanks a lot all of you.
So it looks like there'e a optimum width/size for the board from where you won't really get more planing unless you get a bigger sail...
Except that planing through lulls (and pointing) will be a little better with a wider board (and jibing worse)..
Hmm.. will it be around 85 cm for my 8.5, and what about length?? Won't a longer board have a more straight rocker (and longer waterline=quicker in displacement mode) and add to early planing??

Guest
10th May 2007, 01:50 AM
In light winds,
most peolple say: a 9.5 freerace 2-3 cam is the same of a 11 full race sail.

So I THINK that a 8.5 no cam sail could be the same of a 9.5 freerace with 2-3 cam.

The real problem is in the upper wind limit: 4 cam=25kn; 2 cam=15kn; no cam=13??

Per
10th May 2007, 02:00 AM
I can hardly plane in 13 knots with a 8.5 (I'm 97 kgs)...
Guess the limit for me is around 20 knots.
My former big sail was a twin cam lightning 9.4. It could take very close to as much wind as the 8.5. Anyway when the 8.5 gets too big I'll just switch to a 6.5 without any problems.

Jean-Marc
10th May 2007, 06:00 AM
Per,

Again with my 65 kg, by using an old '98 race board of 309 x 70 cm x 170 L, I need 10 knots of wind with same 8.2 race sail and same 48 cm race fin to be able to start and sustain the planing. For my light weight, a long board doesn't appear to play an essential role in early planing, except perhaps it's easier in the beginning to find out and adjust for the correct nose/tail pitch of the hull with a long than with a short board (see the enhanced lenght of the Apollo versus that of F161). Volume doesn't play a big role either (103-170 L) but width does (70/77/80/95 cm versus 63 cm). For a heavier body weight such as your 97 kg, I'm sure this is a completely different story, however...!

As for cammed race sail versus no cam sail, I can't really comment because I don't have both with the same surface. However, my experience taught me that the more deep the draft is, the more powerful a sail can be in the lowest range and cams do help a lot to pre-shape this deep draft in low wind range. I need 10 knots with a race RS2 8.2 sail but need 12 knots with a no cam freeride Jet 6.9 sail; or, I need 15 knots with a either a race RS1 6.6 sail or a wave NR 6.2 sail (all with adjustable on-the-fly outhaul).

Cheers !

JM

Guest
11th May 2007, 03:11 PM
just a note to cam vs. no cam. I actually gave a 7.5 no cam and a 7.5 3 cam free race sail. the no cam planes earlier.

I think it planes earlier because the sail is on a softer mast (25) compared to (29). It is easier to "flutter" the sail easing onto the plane. It seems that the cam sail has more "static" grunt but the no cam has more "dynamic" low end grunt.

Per
13th May 2007, 03:53 AM
Early planing on cammed vs. no cam sails depend on a lot of other factors than the actual area of the sail. A 6.2 freestyle sail may pop up a lot earlier than a 6.2 cammed race sail. But the actual range for the two may be something like 12 to 18 knots for the freestyle sail and 14 to 25 knots for the cammed racer. Speed will be seriousely in favour of the cammed one and on manouverability the freestyle sail it the winner. It´s two different worlds.
It's more interestng when it comes to cam vs. no cam freerace sails where you expect the same performance from the sail. Modern no cam freerace sails are very close to the performance of their cammed counterparts (I talk about freerace, not competition slalom/race sails, it's a different game).
To me, for freeriding/freeracing (what 95% of windsurfers do) the no cam is the winner. It's very powerful and fast don't mistake this, and handling is superior to the cammed ones.
:p

steveC
13th May 2007, 11:12 AM
Hi Per,

You make some insightful points about the merits of no cam sails. Today, there isn't that much difference when it come to freerace/freeride performance. While I was dedicated to race sails for many years, I now prefer no cams because of their solid performance and exceptional maneuverability. Also, the mast compatibility and rigging ease are very strong incentives to hang tough on no cams.

Per
14th May 2007, 02:15 AM
Exactly.. And now back to the subject. Max planing (board) with an 8.5..
Today I tried my 8.5 on a formula 158 with the 70 Drake fin. Winds were like 8 to 14 knots...
Planing was way superior to anything I've ever tried with this sail size. And when the thing was off nothing could stop it.. And I was only on a 8.5 no cam.
Some say that formulas don't work with this (small) size. Well to me there was no doubt. It was great freeriding with a very handy sail in very low wind...:p