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View Full Version : ST115 vs KA117


Guest
15th May 2007, 04:27 PM
which one will plane earlier for an 83kg experienced guy with a 6.8/6.1 in 15-20 kts?

Guest
17th May 2007, 06:26 AM
An experienced guy wouldn't ask that question. They are so different in application that you choose the one for the conditions you intend to use it in.:@

Guest
17th May 2007, 06:23 PM
sure, KA117 is crap (flat or waves), just exchanged it for an ST115 (should do a good job in both).
Thanks for the useful response.

Floyd
18th May 2007, 04:50 AM
Its not such a daft question at all; especially if you have had either board which I reckon post 2 certainly hasnt.
The ST needs loads of power.It thrives on it but it is not an early planer at all.(Even compared with more similar boards (ie Tabou Rocket which I think is its nearest equivalent)
Once planing it would leave KA for dead but KA will plane earlier volume for volume. (Its bound to)
The ST range is notoriuos for being lower volume than quoted. I reckon my ST126 was around 120litres and performed on water like an even smaller board. In right conditions (ie bordering on overpowered) the board flies/ gybes / jumps. But its slow out the blocks. Exactly opposite to KA !

Guest
18th May 2007, 02:03 PM
I'm beginnig to get behind the meaning of "techincal ride". The STs do actually plane quite early but you have to find out how. Same might apply to the KAs but after numerous no fun sessions I just dumped the darn thing and went for the STs. So I would agree that STs love lots of power but I would also say that with "techique" they can thive on a lot less than expected. Of course they (ST137) will never kill Hypers, FTs, Formulars in light wind, but they can bother them at times.

Floyd
19th May 2007, 04:19 AM
ST does not plane early at all !
There are techniques (loads of them) to get planing earlier but all of them apply to nearly all boards. Compared to boards of quoted same volume (and width) ST is a very late planer. (Reckon my Kombat planes as early especially if you know "how".

Guest
20th May 2007, 12:49 AM
STs planes early, especially if you know how.
ST 115 planes earlier than KA117 believe what you want.
Best technique to plane early with a KA117 is to exchange it for a ST115.

Floyd
20th May 2007, 06:09 AM
Just because ST planes before a waveboard (KA 117) does not mean its an early planer,
I have a k106 and have had an ST126. In waves the kombat planes earlier. On flat water the ST does but not to the extent you would expect from trhe difference in volume.
Th ST is an easy sailing control oriented slalom board.
Try JP slalom pro 114 for early planing (with same volume)
No comparison. (And neither is there in control of the two boards in chop / hard conditions)
If priority is early planing forget ST range.:(

Guest
20th May 2007, 01:43 PM
I agree to some extent, my K86 (sinker) planes (almost) as early as the KA117 (floater) did. Because of bad experience with 2007 Knnn lineup wasn't willing to try K107 anymore.
ST115 is light to medium wind board (15-20kts) and will work well in those conditions (first ride was quite nice but conditions weren't usual so comments will come in later).
ST137 + 8.7 planes as early as 8 kts at 82Kg. It IS a matter of technique.

Guest
21st May 2007, 12:40 AM
first comparable session on ST115 in 15-20kts onshore with mushy waves (lots of boats, waves don't travel all too far).

ST115 kills KA117 in every respect, waveriding, jumping, catching speed, carving through gybes.

Floyd
21st May 2007, 05:13 AM
You would need a Ski Nautique not good technique to get an ST137 going in 8 knots !!Thats a thumbs down for that definitely.Sorry.

One of problems of this site (and others) is that boards become misrepresented by comments from people with vested interest in those boards. (ie they own one)
The ST range is a definite case of this.
Without doubt the ST is a good board but it is a high wind (relative) high control slalom board.
Yes obviously riders with good technique will get the thing going earlier; but apply those self same techniques to other boards (F Types; JP slaloms; etc) and you will be going loads earlier.
The ST is NOT NOT NOT an early planing board ! It was not intended to be; never is and never will be.
If you buy it as such you will be severely disappointed.
Buy it to carry "too much" sail; sail it hard and use it like a board with 10 litres less volume and you will b e chuffed with it !
If you are thinking of one TRY IT FIRST ! Dont read the blurb or listen to folk on here ! Find out for yourself.!!!
A group of 4 of us bought them ( a 115; 2x 1126`s and a 137) Three of us bought WRONGLY.(and sold on) One of us loves it and goes like hell on it.(Not me BTW)
Its NOT a waveboard.Its NOT an early planer. Its NOT a good weight carrier. (Volumes ARE overquoted)
Its a fast; high control ; good gybing slalom board ! (With disputed get you home volume)
My 126 was just NOT 126 litres volume.(If it was every other board I have sailed is overquoted)
In the right conditions (Hard) its fantastic.In easy ; underpowered; flat conditions lots of things would plane earlier; go upwind better;go through lulls better;and have faster speeds. Thats why SB build the iSonic.
:@

Guest
21st May 2007, 01:59 PM
didn't say ST was a light wind board (it definitely isn't, thats why I'm still waitung for my light wind board (iS) and in the meanwhile tickling every ounce of early planing out of the ST137). Getting it to plane in 8 kts is nothing compared to zipping around with an FT or iS145/155 or even formula. Didn't say it was a wave board, just said that the ST115 kills the KA117 (whatever that might mean for the KA117...).

STs in general gybe very nice and take loads of wind very well (have/had, STs 104, 116, 137). STs will for sure not be the earliest planing board, but you can make them plane early (again, you won't be making loads of speed like you would on a wide light wind board!).

So, take it easy Floyd, I've had tons of boards, some were crap, some weren't, don't earn a cent on anything here and as a former owner of an KA117 I honestly and whole heartedly disliked (better hated or would've axed it had I not been able to trade it in) that board.

Ola_H
21st May 2007, 02:18 PM
Interesting thread with lots of different opinions. I think it goes to show that it proves that talking about early planing (and other aspects of a ride) is almost meaningless if one don't know a lot about the rider. I don't think you can call any one of the sailors which have used the boards in this thread wrong, but still they have very different experiences.

In my book, there ARE lots of different techniques to get going early and they do work to very different extents on differnt boards. You can for exemple feel this on the Kombat 87 which with the wave fins ans straps inboard thrives on a wave board technique to get going while with a freeride fin and straps outboard you need to mix some mre slalom like technique (get the fin loaded up a bit more) to get it going the earliest. This is even more evident in the Aero (I had the original 117). In a wave setting, it planes super early. In a freeride setting and with the freeride fin, the very short length and (for a freerider) kind of curvy rocker kind of get i conflict with each other and I would say the A117 therefor needs more technique and feel to get going early than many other boards. When you nail this technique, it really does get going very early also in freeride mode. But of course, the real place for the A117 is on a wave in light wind.

Unfortunately I do not use the ST, so I can't comment on that. I have a Flare though, which like the ST is based of the Sonic95 rocker. Out of all boards I've sailed, the Flare is the one that gets going with the least amount off work and the least amount of sail power. My iS1010 get going real easy too, but that board does require some more dedicated technique to go in super light wind.

Guest
21st May 2007, 04:15 PM
Hi Ola,

no pun intended:

unforunately you can't even comment on what we we talking about in the first place being the KA117 and NOT the A117 (two completely different birds of which the A117 would beat the ST115) vs ST115 (K86 not K87 was sideline).

Floyd
22nd May 2007, 05:18 AM
Ola is always qualified to comment wether he`s ridden board or not .(Seriously and not being sarcastic)

Apologies if I came over a bit "strong".

Still dont think anyone could get an ST 137 going in 8 knots . My feeling is that somebody could believe that and go out and get one ;leaving then with a totally wrong board ! That is not knocking the board at all.If you want to plane in 8 knots you should not be on an S type.!

Take care. You must be a hell of a pumper !:p

Guest
22nd May 2007, 02:51 PM
KA117 and A117 are 2 completely different boards. If you don't know both you just can't comment on them.

Floyd
24th May 2007, 11:50 PM
Of Course you can !

At Agincourt a noble Englishman asked why his archers could not hit individual targets at long ranges. A bowman replied "you can have long range or you can have accuracy. Take your pick "

Its a lot like that with boards.
You can have early planing or good high speed control in chop.Take your pick. Even S type cant do both ! (Even if SB say it can !)
Planing in 8 knots on an ST 137 ??? mmmmm???!:(!

Guest
25th May 2007, 01:32 AM
bla bla bla, ST goes fast in varying conditions and you can dial it up to plane early, you can bouce around on them and ride waves. KAxxx goes fast when you throw out of a plane at altitude 10km. Otherwise it sticks, bothers and is just no comparision whatsoever to the STs equal volume.

Floyd
25th May 2007, 03:51 AM
Dont disagree with any of that but that does NOT make it either an early planer and its certainly no wave board. Yes we`ve all seen the video of KP on one in massive waves and doing what he does best but I`ve also seen a video of Robbie Naish looping a Mistral Equipe.
If you want an early planing wave board at your weight the K107 is as good as you are going to get ! (And thats a bit stiff in them)
The 137 is like a plank in waves.Its awful in them; the 126 is only marginally better.
I think you are *** and making stuopid claims like he used to !
ST a wave board !!!
Planing in 8 knots on one !!!
Come on ! Give it a rest !:D

Guest
25th May 2007, 10:10 AM
S-TYPE 137 2007 06 7.4 2415 720 138 Immediate
S-TYPE 126 2007 06 7.05 2372 674 123 Immediate
S-TYPE 115 2007 06 6.7 2374 640 117 Immediate
S-TYPE 104 2007 06 6.4 2374 605 105 Immediate
S-TYPE 93 2007 06 6.2 2379 596 99 Immediate

Hey Floyd You *&^%$. Here are the stats from ISAF for Stypes. THe 126 is the only over stated volume.
Lord give us strength
Poster two:@

Floyd
25th May 2007, 02:25 PM
Thats certainly a different report to one I saw and I think if you do your homework properly you will find that even SB themselves reckon S type is overquoted in volume but that wasn`t point anyway.
Point was
a) S type IS NOT a wave board

b) S type is NOT an early planer

Volume measurements have little to do with early planing any way.
JP 114 slalom pro will without doubt plane way before an S type 137 (whatever its volume)
So you can go £%$£ yourself too.

And an ignorant post in all senses of word (especially your first)

LK
25th May 2007, 05:04 PM
Hi Boyz,
funny long discussion !

Why not compare The Futura 11X and the new K 11X (new modified AE 117), they look great . We are close to August, why discussing old boards ??? :)

LK

Guest
26th May 2007, 01:53 AM
Hey Floyd
- remeber, we were comparing ST115 with KA117
- ST115 does NOT ride like a plank in waves, at least not more than the KA117
- remeber, K107 not interested anymore, '07 lineup concernig Kombats was quite disapointing.
- ST115 kills KA117 end of story
- A117 would kill ST117 (in a lot of conditions), but they don't make it anymore
- Ola can make whatever comemnts he wants, some just aren't qualified/backed with experience, again eos.

Ola_H
26th May 2007, 02:45 PM
Hey Guest. My point with the earlier post was not a comparasion. I was just lifting the fact that differnt people may have different experiences with the same board - something which undoubtebly is the case here. Just stating that board A is better than board B without including something under which condition and for what rider is often not so meaningful. Of course, there are very clear cases, but there are lots of grey areas too. Thats's the difference between just evaluating a board for your own sake and evaluating it for a whole "market".

But I'm intrigued by your experience with the 07 Kombats since the K87 is one of the best boards boards I've been on. With that I don't mean its my favourite board (since I'm _personally_ rather on an EVO in waves for example). I rather mean its a board that exceptionally easy to use and that does what its intended to do in a very natural way and that it is simply and extremely fun board to just sail on. The 87 is so far the only size I've sailed, but the 97 and 107 at least looks very similar. Which ones have you tried and what was it you didn't like?

Floyd
26th May 2007, 03:49 PM
Hey Guest
Yes I realised thread had something to do with ST and KA range !
Its been (is ???) a very interesting thread because obviuosly people`s view of the same board are completely different.
I objected to what was IMHO exaggerated claims. (ST in waves ??? and planing in 8 knots and to the tone that if you did not have extensive knowledge of BOTH boards you could not offer opinion.
People DO buy boards on strength of what they read on here. (more so than product blurbs) because they are real experiences and (hopefully) not adverts.
Some people (IMO) have mis bought S type. (their own faults ???). This will continue in atmosphere of "keep quiet you dont have both boards" and continued insistence ST has qualities it just does not possess)
It might be better in waves than lots of other boards. (Its arginally better than my old Tencate Hunter) It might plane earlier than my speed needle ! But so what !
Its still neither an early planer or a good board to be on in waves !
Ask SB ! Read their own product literature. !
Good sailing.
(Nice to see an interesting thread though !!!)
B):p:@:p

Guest
26th May 2007, 05:59 PM
- ST sizes/volume somewhat different than KAs
- not the SAME ST will be fun in waves AND plane at 8 knots
- KAs till now have been no fun, tried'em for quite some time, dumped them. Kombats in general are a different story (K86 == favorite board). STs where fun from the very first second, KAs no comparison whatsoever wether flat, nor waves, nor chop. Slow, slow to plane feel like lead.