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View Full Version : I sonic 145 VS F-Type 138


Frederic
18th June 2007, 04:26 AM
Hi,

I had a T-type 138 dram, I was very happy with it but I change with a I-Sonic 145 technora, unfortunetly, this I sonic 145 seems to be not as good as my F-type in light wind condition, I feel very unstable on it, I explain, on the F-type, upwind or downwind , my position was locked on the board, it was very stable and quick and I could sail for hours, with the I-sonic 145, I always fight and move all the time to keep the board stable, I become tired very easy with this way of windsurfing. I use a the loft O2 freerace 8.4m2, I am 1.75m and 70kg. I have sailed already more then 10 times on the I-sonic 145 and I realy can't be easy on it like my former F-Type, can you explain what is the advantage of the I-sonic 145 versus the F-type 138 because in the moment, I only feel to get back a F-type 138.

thanks
Frédéric

o2bnme
18th June 2007, 06:10 AM
How powered up is the sail? I did a comparison between my F-Type 148 and the iSonic 155. I found them to be similar. But I would say the F-Type was a little friendlier and slower. Basically, I found I had to focus more on making the iS155 perform compared to the FT148... not much but a little.

With my iSonic 105, I found it very easy to sail when fully powered up, but when not, you have to work at it a lot. I wouldn't have expected this to be the same for the larger iSonics. I didn't notice enough difference for me to say this is the case.

Sorry, that I can't confirm what you are describing. Hopefully someone else will have a better answer/explanation.

HanekomDJ
24th June 2007, 02:18 AM
The F-type 138 is one of the best user friendly, fast boards in that range/type I have ever sailed. New boards is not always better. Don't sell it, or buy it back. It is like my old Carve90, one of the best. Dian.

Erik Loots
24th June 2007, 06:07 AM
My brother just sold his isonic 135 because lack of 'easy lowwind' freeriding.

This is what you can try to get a bit of bottomend back. And easy going.

Straps is closest positions. (close stance)
Masttrack in back.
Boom pretty high.
Pretty long lines.

You have to change your style a bit.

When you have above setup you will plane pretty soon and comftable.

When to much backfoot pressure lower the boom and forward masttrack.

Try to balance your sail right above the board. In very lowwind you can pul the sail a bit over yourself.

I am dutch and I hope you understand a bit. Try some things, or dont, and go back to f-type. My brother doesnt want that to tune his kit, and just want to go. Isonic is NO board just to GO. It is a board that rewards technique, and input. But when bad tuned... it isnt that much fun

My brother will not go back to starboard because HIS board (f-type/freeformula) is gone. He is planning to buy something like JP freerace/ fanatic shark?/ bic superblast.

I dont understand Why SB replaced F-type for big Isonic. The F-type fans are more freeracers who dont want tuning shit.
The pure racers buy formula board...

Why make the perfect always sold out F-type more difficult????

For what kind of surfer are the bigger ISonics made??? I dont know/understand.

Dont get me wrong I still respect for SB, and all genius boards... just had a go on a Gemini (Wonderfull!)

steveC
24th June 2007, 09:14 AM
Sometimes adjustments are necessary to move on. However, there are times where some folks don't want to move on for one reason or the other. It can come down to holding on to what you like until some more appropriate comes along. However, it could be that one's focus needs to be adjusted to a slightly different shape/design to better optimize fun. Something worth thinking about.

Duracell
25th June 2007, 04:21 AM
Erik, if your brother wants speed (up or down the wind) he shouldn't go for a superblast (could only barely keep up on a reach), smoked that one every time I see/saw it with ST137, iS133 or ST115 didn't really matter.

Erik Loots
25th June 2007, 05:37 AM
Is the Bic superblast not that good I can't really tell.

Bic is very small in Netherlands with no test oppurtunities. Thank you Duracell for respond. We are still looking for a board.

But understand me good the requirements my brother wants

(and every freeracer/rider I think)

1) Easy/ comftable stance
2) Easy tuning
3) Wide wind range
4) Good in sub planning (HERE DO SHORT BOARDS FAIL)
5) crosswind speed

These thing are less important
- Gybing speed
- Upwind speed
- Downwind speed
- Acceleration
- Good @ windholes

The short board concept is good and works very well for me! But I had now 10 people that sailed the isonic and dont liked it because of it short lenght and understability in sub planning. The isonics are good selling, but in the local shops I see a lot used Isonics against the walls...

For me (pure racer/speeder) the requirements are all around. I just want upwind/downwind speed. Fast planning High topspeed etc.

THIS is the difference I think, And why WE (after 5 years SB) wont buy a SB back.

Boardoptions we where thinking:

JP Freerace 145 2005
JP xciteride 14* 2007
SB Freeformula 168 2004
Bic blast
Bic superblast
Fanatic Shark
some others???

BTW my brother doesnt like the carve, it just will not work??? He wants easy speed (with NP V8). He found the carve a strange/slow ride.

If there are some good suggestions, dont keep it for yourself. ;)

steveC
25th June 2007, 08:09 AM
Notwithstanding my earlier comments, I have ultimately found that some folks aren't well suited to be windsurfiers, and it could be that your brother might be one of those folks. My brother didn't find windsurfing viable or interesting overall, so I had to be more understanding of others and their wishes. While I'm not saying directly that your situation is the same, it's something to consider thoughtfully.

I can easily say that most of the boards that I have bought over the years were immediately awesome, and surprisingly easy and rewarding in nature. Despite my positive experiences, there's that chance that a targeted design isn't well suited to someone's desired needs. That might require seriously considering a different design/product focus.

Erik Loots
25th June 2007, 03:36 PM
No steveC you are this time wrong!

UNderstand me very well: There is for everyone a good windsurfstuff

3 years ago my brother was on starboard start
2 year ago my brother was on Freeformula 168 with NP v8 8.5&9.8
1 year ago on isonic 135

He Really likes the freeformula and start. He is recreational surfer, he doesnt want to be the fastest. It is just about the feeling of windsurfing, in the most relaxing conditions: like 12kn and sun

Than he bought the isonic 135, this resulted in higher speeds (of course) my brother hitted >33knots on the board. He is fast, and overtakes allmost everyone, BUT HE DOESNT HAVE FUN.

1) He hates to tune it
2) He hates to change gear
3) He hates to change style

this results is bad surfdays with minimal time on water! The gear is 90% of the time over or underpowerd.

I think that 90% of the surfers dont want it all, they just want to have fun, and that doesnt mean 5kn faster at a certain course.

SteveC and people like me (and mostly other forum users) we are really stoked to use new stuff and better our technique. We want that xtra knot. But we are a lot smaller group.

In the netherlands slalomboards are the hype, a lot people buy them (we had 3 isonics, 1 still here) But when you watch the surfers on slalomboards you will see them standing 50-75% of the time on shore. This is what I mean, when I was on the water, I NEVER saw my brother! He was surfing 15km // 10 miles a day! He came from 80km 50mile AND A BIG SMILE:D

steveC
26th June 2007, 02:15 AM
Hi Erik,

I can appreciate what's you're saying here. Frankly, I personally don't like stuff that's too fussy and narrow in application, as you can often feel you're on the wrong side of the equation. However, a good slalom board doesn't have to be high strung and tough to work with. Yet, finding the right rockerline isn't always that easy. I've been very lucky with slalom boards (never a miss), but for a number of years I had a tough time getting a surfy freeride board to my liking that was fun to blast about on but still could be maneuverable in lightwind surf conditions. After 3 failures in a row, surprisingly, it was my slalom board shaper that came up with the right solution with a versatile freeride design that offered a very friendly balance that was fast, easy to ride and still quite maneuverable in waves.

Getting back to the heart of this thread, there's an important issue to keep in mind. I don't want to dwell on a bunch of negativity, but in my opinion, I think that the yearly change mode so common today across many of the production brands can have its real disadvantages. The next years' design tweaks don't always offer a better product. With things constantly in flux, it makes things very tough for a sailor to find that perfect product and then feel good over the long haul. When I buy a new board, I intend to keep it for 5-7 years at minimum, so I tend to be immune to the yearly hype and the whole fashion of having the latest and greatest. Sounds to me like your brother would do well following a similar strategy.

Of course, that doesn't solve his problem of finding the perfect design. I might be out of school here, but has your brother looked into the higher volume Carbon Art designs. Phil McGain is a real demanding guy, and sailing in Maui requires really balanced shapes to handle the challenging conditions. CA might be an interesting avenue to consider. The fact that you have already stepped into that arena with your speed boards might offer some added dimension.

Duracell
26th June 2007, 03:38 AM
Hi Erik,

no tuning == carve (but your brother doesn't think its fast (gps? (have since a few days a C133T but am still waiting for a decent test day, but man that board is fully balanced == 0 tecnique necessary)))

HTS Superfast might be what he is looking for (should they still be in business), true plug an play like the carve but lighter. Sorry about your other choices, just don't know those boards.

SteveC
iS is designed for a very narrow application like all other full blood slamon boards. Built for high performance over a very short period (iS, Manta whatever, I think they all would fail the coin test (sooner or later, wood a bit sooner))

steveC
26th June 2007, 07:53 AM
Hi Duracell,

I know from your more recent posts, that durability has been worrisome point in your experiences, particularly regarding wood boards. From my experiences, each of us can be uniquely tough on different windsurfing products, especially the bigger/heavier sailors that drive things real hard. Although I'm not really big or heavy, my abilities to find shortcomings, especially with booms, is uncanny. Somehow my style really tests booms, as I have destroyed almost every boom I've ever owned. I haven't touched an aluminum boom in 14 years because they were such a bummer for me. One year, I broke 6 front ends, and that was the absolute end of the world for aluminum, any aluminum in my mind. However, I'm opening up a little bit, but that would only concern the possibility of using an aluminum mast extension.

Regarding your position that full blood slalom boards are designed for a very narrow application, I would have to respectfully disagree. However, I have to qualify my position a bit, because not all the designs/brands out there are friendly in every respect, as your opinion is certainly based on real personal experiences, and very likely those of others out there, like Erik's brother.

Like I suggested earlier, I've been extremely lucky with my slalom boards. They been so balanced and controlled, but lightening quick. In addition, they last. Although I just got a new slalom board (which is very modern and quick), I'm going to still keep my 1999 slalom board in the van too, because is does so well in the surf. In the surf? Yeah, in less critical type applications (not in off the lip top to bottom sections) it holds it's own with a special slashy character. Being a narrow board (55.5cm) with a notably narrow tail too, it carves quite quickly with great speed, despite outboard placed straps. Honestly though, the strap placement on my new slalom is even more outboard. Yet, the new board is much shorter, but wider at both the mid point and the tail.

You might say, I still like both the new and old worlds. Just cause new friends enter our lives, that doesn't mean that the older ones are necessarily out the door.

Erik Loots
26th June 2007, 01:57 PM
Thx for reply's

Duracell
26th June 2007, 04:56 PM
SteveC

I share your uncanny ability to break every alu boom, some didn&#39;t even last 2 months. Furthermore I&#39;ve gone through 3-4 harness hooks, lines (harness seats too) in 1 season. DRAM and technora boards don&#39;t seam to fall apart. narrow wood boards (<= ~ 64cm) neither. Any wide and light board (like for slamon/formula) that is made out of wood or carbon is bound to fall apart. Wood cracks a bit earlier, carbon a bit later, carbon is easier to repair.

And yes slalom boards are designed for a very narrow application: fast & furious till the end of the race no matter what. You just might need a couple of them to compete a full season :).

Erik Loots
27th June 2007, 06:41 PM
I have broken 1 boom: North alu (2004)

Bended a few alu booms.

Now I have AMEX carbon boom 160-220. It is still in 1 piece after:
3000km = 1850 miles
Average overall speed is 25km/h
Hitting topspeed (yesterday) 77kmh = 42 knots
max 500m of 68kmh = 38 knots
max average 1 hour = 41kmh = 25 knots

AMEX boom is same as:

Prolimit
Gaastra
KA
and many more

The boom works for me :D. However I dont crash very often had this year just a few 60kmh+ crashes :(

Duracell
28th June 2007, 11:25 PM
booms etc. usually fall apart due to pumping and hanging from them (crashes, wouldn&#39;t know haven&#39;t crashed into anything yet, TV was a near miss on a trami day ;)). Usually they fall apart on a reach (really nice).

rod_r
29th June 2007, 05:10 AM
Eric, I&#39;m a bit like you brother. I have gone through quite a few Starboards, some I didn&#39;t like or shouldn&#39;t have bought, and a few times I&#39;ve gone back to a previous board.

Right now I have a 2001 F155 which is a board I had 3 years ago, and the minute I got on it, it&#39;s been easy, comfortable and fast.

It doesn&#39;t have to be new to be better.