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James
20th June 2007, 01:17 PM
First of all, this is just my opinion and my experience. I know other people have good reasons for their own opinions and I respect that. Anyway, here goes:

Longboards are the most practical and most enjoyable boards for most people in most conditions.

I have come full circle to reach this conclusion. Though I fell in love with longboards as a kid, I got a Techno 273 after college and focused mainly on shortboarding after that. Saving my meager grad-student stipend, I then worked on my sail quiver, eager to access the much-hyped realm of early planing. I was disappointed to find that a 7.5 didn't do it - Most days were still schlog days. So I saved some more money and bought a 10.6. It was fun on my longboard but didn't work well on the Techno. So I saved more money and bought a F186. That was fun, but I still schlogged most of the time in the summer, and I had to deal with tons of rigging and repair hassles with the sail and board. Undaunted, I saved MORE money, and bought a 12.0 and a 9.4. Finally, I was able to plane about 50% of the time in those light summer days. But it was a huge rigging hassle and backbreaking if the wind got a little too light or too strong. Deciding whether or not to rig up on those all-too-common marginal days was stressful. Plus I was realizing that my setup wasn't good enough get me in the running in the local races. So I bought a F158. That was cool. I did ok in a race or two. But fins, board repairs, etc. were always a hassle, and the "is it windy enough to plane" dilemma was still agonizing in the summer. Then my monofilm sails started to self-destruct and my boom head broke. I was getting frustrated, but I still repaired things and kept at it.

Around that time I started teaching a lot of people to windsurf, and windsurfing with my girlfriend. It was a pain to pack for trips because I had to bring the F158 for myself and a separate longboard or prodigy for the others, because the formula board was lousy for teaching.

Then the wood finish on my F158 started to crack and split. I did my best to refinish it, but that was the last straw. The honeymoon with early-planing shortboard performance was over. I missed my longboard, which I had sold to finance the extravagant formula purchases.

So I sold my 12.0 rig, my formula board, and all it's accessories for chump change and purchased the only good, cheap longboard currently on the market. Unfortunately, it was not a starboard.

Since then I have sailed more often, with less stress and anxiety and less time spent rigging. I have enjoyed racing much more, and I have been able to share my board with buddies and beginners. I have sailed alongside my girlfriend on an even more simple longboard (a Bic Melody) and we've both had much more fun than when she used to slug around on the Prodigy while I alternated between leaving her in the dust and schlogging behind her on my formula stuff. I have learned new tricks like the rail ride and have enjoyed jibing and carving around on waves, which was a no-no with the F158.

So, I'll get down off the soapbox now, but before I do, I just want to put out a call to Starboard and all the other companies that haven't already done so, to produce and market cheap longboards. They're fun and rewarding for all skill levels without requiring strong steady winds or huge investments in heavy, complex rigs. Most importantly they bring beginner and advanced sailors closer together, stoking the fire of our sport. Longboards are the main course - shortboards are the desert. We need to get back to a balanced diet.

Screamer
20th June 2007, 09:02 PM
James
Some good thoughts there, alhtough it&#39;s an old topic. It depends a lot on where you live. I don&#39;t live in Maui, Tarifa, etc, but luckily I am able to sacrifice those <10 knots days and still get enough of my fix. (I say this having sailed (and abandoned) div2, longboards, formulas, for the past 15-20 years)
Btw, here is a fact often forgotten in this longboard vs shortboard debate (and there is a mini revival of the longboards for sure): An olympic lechner or similar div2 board will run circles around any longboard on any race course in very light winds. If I ever go back to light wind sailing, I&#39;ll go straight from my slalom board to Serenity or something similar.

Guest
20th June 2007, 10:04 PM
Screamer, where do you live?

crazychemical
20th June 2007, 11:19 PM
I agree with james for most of what he has said. My sister is a born longboarder whereas i&#39;m a shortboard fanatic. Though i must admitt, when we get our 3 bft conditions i repfer rigging my 7.6 (as i have no bigger sail) on her fanatic race 340 then on my SB go139. It just more fun, much more speed (i&#39;ve got pictures of my sister with the 7.6 rig cruzin a 6 or 7 knot breeze and this formula surfer with a 10 m² rig trying to keep up with her)
However, i must add that when i get +10 knot conditions it can sail my shortboard perfectly with a 7.6 rig and get into plane most of the time (though upwinds are dreadfull and i get tempted to just plane downwind and thus drift away). Also, when we hit a light 5 bft, so about 13-14-15 knots my 7.6 is the perfect rig to surf with on the Go139 and i get into planning all the time whereas my sister is staggering behind on her longboard because she&#39;ll have more problems giving the board the lift it needs to plane (this is partially because it&#39;s an older board (still said &#39;maid in West germany&#39; so a pre &#39;89 board) and therefore not really disigned for planning)
Another problem i face when surfing longboard it that when the wind picks up jibing becomes quite the trick because of the extensive tail you have to handle. also, in higher winds my sister seems to loose controle, even though she always sails smaller rigs then me. Whereas my Go139 in winds over 14 knots becomes a responsive board with early planning and it jibes and carves as if it were cutting soft butter.
The opposite is true for lightwinds: my Go becomes this clumbsy piece of wood on the water, it takes hours before it starts to jibe because of the sheer lack of speed, it is slow and just not fun like the longboard of my sister.
In lightwinds the longboard is more responsive to it&#39;s sailor than a shortboard because of the reduced width versus the volume. The rider is more balanced (looking at current longboard which vary from 120 liters (see exocet kona range) to about 220 liters with an avarage of about 180 liters) and the board is faster as it is slimmer then a shortboard.
Judging from all of this a rider, in order to deside what is really best for him, has to ask himself what conditions he would encounter more: lightwinds, or, highwinds? I&#39;m lucky, as the lake i sail on (veerse meer in the south of holland) has seewinds blowing in aswell as landwinds, thus it is sailable with shortboard just a bit more often then with longboards. However, i am glas my sister is a longboardaddict because the lightwind conditions i get there at the end of spring make it very hard for me to satisfy my needs.
Perhaps, it is adviced that a rider not only chooses a sailquiver, but also a more extensive boardquiver ... Longboard, shortboard, waveboard.

Screamer
21st June 2007, 04:27 AM
Guest #3
My location says: Belgrade, Serbia. If you&#39;re interested, you can find it here (zoom out a few clicks to see this part of Europe):
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=44.79999924,20.46999931
You&#39;ll see a large river running from NW to SE through it :D:D:D
I sail on Danube river (mostly), some inland lakes and Adriatic coast of Montenegro in the summer. What is unusual here is that inland sailing is chalenging (sometimes brutal), while the coast is mellower (although it has its share of storms of course). Yes, if you count the light wind days in my area, longboards may make sense, but you also have between 50-100 good days a year (from 11 to 40+ knots). More than enough for me.

Randy
21st June 2007, 05:01 AM
Screamer, sounds like a great place for sailing, but not everyone is so well situated. Also. 50-100 days sounds like a lot, but thats 1-2 per week. If they don&#39;t occur on weekends, or whenever you are off work, then your odds of getting a good shortboard session are 1 or 2 in 7. A "losing streak" could go on for weeks at a time.

I sail both long and shortboards, and for different reasons. Sailing a longboard, is sailing w/o the expense and hassle of owning a "real sailboat." Its also a lot faster, and IMO, more fun than a sailboat. Sailing a shortboard seems more like "surfing", but can be done with or without the waves cooperating. You don&#39;t even need an ocean - a lake or river will do. All you need is wind - and a fair amount of it. But neither shortboarding, or longboarding is for everyone. In this sport, longboarders are a small minority, though hopefully one that will grow.

It will be interesting to see if the longboard revival is for real. I live in a place (inland SE US) where light winds prevail. If anyplace is a longboard haven, it should be here. Yet few local sailors are sailing longboards, now, and its been that way for the more than 10 years I&#39;ve been windsurfing. James&#39; story is sort of similar to mine. I started out on longboards, and gave them up more from frustation than anything. (Couldn&#39;t to get into the straps, hard to get planning sometimes, difficult in high winds etc.) I went to wide formula boards, hybrids, big sails, etc and even sold my longboard. Along the way, I got into conventional shortboards from 84 liters on up. Last spring I bought an old (1987) Mistral longboard. Soon found out that my longboard sailing had improved greatly, even though I had been sailing different types of boards. I got back into longboards in a very big way, racing, and sailing in winds light and strong. I eventually got a Serenity. Now I sail it in non-planning winds, and switch to one of my shorter boards when planning is possible. My thinking is to get the best ride for the conditions, and sail as much as I can.:)

rod_r
21st June 2007, 11:08 AM
I think it&#39;s important to make a distinction between longboards of old and the new breed of longboards being produced. Boards like the kona style are almost as much of a planing hull as they are a traditional longboard, and appear to give the user the benefit of both worlds. It doesn&#39;t have to be one or the other.

Del Carpenter
21st June 2007, 12:03 PM
I love longboards because so much of the time they are the only appropriate board for the conditions I sail in. Even on many of the days with planing winds in my area, the longboard is still the best bet becaause the winds are too variable.

I have no hope that new, good longboards will ever be inexpensive. I believe the complications of adjustable mast tracks and fully retractable daggerboards argue against inexpensive longboards. I hope lots of new longboards are made so some of them will become less expensive.

James
21st June 2007, 12:07 PM
Hey guys. I&#39;m really happy with this response. Thanks for sharing your stories and stuff.

I&#39;m going up to a longboard race in Annapolis, MD this weekend. Should be a lot of fun. There are some signs of growth in windsurfing in Virginia and Maryland. It helps that there are active clubs in both states that do racing and beginner instruction on longboards and hybrids.

Guest
21st June 2007, 12:24 PM
Hey guys, check this video...this are some good, relatively easy things to do also when there is no wind.

I have been the last week in the water 3 days here in my local spot with almost 5-7 knots having really tons of fun. I always ended with a smile in my face.

Check this is a video of Ceaser, a guy in Bonaire that sails windy or not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Stun4xr-ZCc

you can do this with your longboard or with your wide board....same fun!

best luck!
Ricardo Guglielmino

rod_r
21st June 2007, 12:47 PM
Too bad he never got planing. Oh well, he&#39;s still young. I suppose with a few more lessons he may get the hang of it :-)

Seriously though, if someone told me I could do that on my 2002 Start I never would have sold it......amazing indeed.

Screamer
21st June 2007, 03:41 PM
Randy
Agree with everything you said, especially interested in Serenity, which would easily account for 250+ days a year, if I had time.
Btw, freelance work helps with TOW ;)

scotty
21st June 2007, 07:52 PM
Yeah longboards are really cool!!

I kite and windsurf, but when summer comes and I want to sail anywhere without a struggle then I pull out the old longboards and have a blast. I&#39;m looking forward to this new 380 Phantom, about time the brands got back into this class, I was so sad when I never got a Pan Am. Now they are getting back into this class and going all out it seems with big boards and big fins!!

The new SB looks great, I guess it might be a bit different by the time production rolls around. It does look a bit less classic than the old Equipes which in IMO were the best looking longboard built. If the SB had the wide point just a tad further forward and a slightly pointier nose and tail, she&#39;d look sweet!! B) Of course she&#39;s built to be fast, looks come secondary, but I&#39;m sure in real life she&#39;ll look fine!!

Anyway lets see some pictures!!! ;)

crazychemical
21st June 2007, 08:39 PM
totally agree with Scotty! The Phantom 380 is what a real race longboard should look like and i&#39;m sure it won&#39;t dissapoint its riders! BUT I WANT PICTURES! :d video would be cool too... Hehe, now we only have to wait for longboardracing to become more popular with flatwater sailors everywhere. Though, the kona range has become veryy promoted in france with eg the numerous kona-cups there, i&#39;d like to see it happen in holland or belgium aswell, cuz i don&#39;t mind going to france for some action, i don&#39;t like the petrol bills at the end of the day!

scotty
21st June 2007, 08:53 PM
WE WANT PICTURES!!!!! :@

WE WANT VIDEO!!!!! :@

WE WANT PICTURES!!!!! :@

WE WANT VIDEO!!!!! :@

WE WANT PICTURES!!!!! :@

WE WANT VIDEO!!!!! :@

WE WANT PICTURES!!!!! :@

WE WANT VIDEO!!!!! :@


:D

LK
21st June 2007, 09:07 PM
Hi thats why I am into shortboards :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Stun4xr-ZCc

You cant do this as good on a longboard.

Its not about shortboard or longboard, its about having fun basad on the resources you have, or are willing to invest.

A one board solution is always a compromise, 2 is better, 3 good 4. ? 5 ?

I admit, a longboard and a SUP would fit perfectly in my
K 96, Skate 100, AE 127, FE 160, Go 180 quiver, but I would not dump my quiver for one (long)board.

Have fun

scotty
21st June 2007, 10:17 PM
Yeah but you need the following:

3.5, 4.0, 4.5, 5.0 5.5 wave sails.... x2

5.4, 6.2, 7.2, 8.4, 10 slalom sails

4 wave boards

4 slalom and lightwind boards

then a nice longboard for the summer!! B)


.... oops I probably have a bit much!! :o

crazychemical
21st June 2007, 11:09 PM
I admit, a longboard and a SUP would fit perfectly in my
K 96, Skate 100, AE 127, FE 160, Go 180 quiver, but I would not dump my quiver for one (long)board.

It&#39;s not like were trying to convince everyone that we should all start surfing longboards :p Just that for a lot of riders it&#39;s impossible to surf in good conditions all the time. I mean, i have a good quiver for my surfspot: Go139 for the medium winds i encounter most, a flow284 for the high winds and small sails, and a fanatac race 340 longboard for the lightwind days. Perfect quiver, but i mean, if you encounter a lot of lightwinds in summer, why invest in like huuuuuuge sails and extremely expensive formula boards when you can use you smaller sails on a longer, slimmer board and still get good speed though you don&#39;t really get the planning feel.
And now even, with the phantom race 380 i think longboard surfing is gonne get a new aspect: a propper planning longboard with the big formula sails: more speed in lower winds. Though it&#39;ll be tricky in the turns...
Exocet began in 2006 with the first kona, today starboard and tabou. Soon Mistral won&#39;t be the only one with the one design monopoly! i guarantee that longboard won&#39;t just be a topic we speculate about on the forum but one we actively discuss like the formula boards.

Guest
22nd June 2007, 05:43 AM
What about the SB Hybrid Race ? It&#39;s as the name suggests a hybrid, not really long, not super short either.

Has anyone tried this board ?

Maybe even compared it to the old school long boards ?

Guest
22nd June 2007, 07:51 AM
LK, that video is fantastic, but there&#39;s almost nothing he&#39;s doing that you couldn&#39;t do with a longboard. In the OD longboard class I sail, we don&#39;t do the same sort of rig flips (because we&#39;re using the same rig we race with) but instead you can do pirouettes on the rail, somersaults around the boom from the rail, tacks and gybes on the rail, 360 everoles (sailing a full circle standing on the bottom of the upturned board), head dips on the rail, etc.

Sailing just one board is a compromise if you&#39;re looking for "ultimate performance"; but then again, all our boards are compromises of one sort of another.

It depends what you want to do - if what you enjoy is sailing just one board and learning how to use it in all conditions, then sailing 10 boards is a compromise. I&#39;m really enjoying my OD longboard in all winds these days - the wave board, speed board, slalom board, bump &#39;n jump board and other gear just sits around the house.

LK
22nd June 2007, 06:08 PM
Hi Guest !

Most of the shown board movements ar not doabel in a reasonabel way on a longboard.
This is shortboard freestyle.
You can do sailtricks railriding and other gimmiks and thats fine.
I am not aginst longboards.They are unbeatabel sin SOME conditions.
I maybe buy a Phantome in the near future, cause I enjøy sailing along the coast in non planing conditions too, I do it on the GO which I also use for fooling around and teaching.


BUT James statement :

Longboards are the most practical and most enjoyable boards for most people in most conditions.

is BS !!!

A one board solution for me for 5-20 kn would be a GO. Its not competive i nonplaning conditions, but goes upwind well.
You can learn on it, freeride and even race it in slalom/formula trim.

Come with a 10 kg Phantome type, appr. 320 X 80 cm maybee it could do the job.

We get 20-30 people through our WS School (appr. 13-35 years old)every year and most buy 130-160 L frerideboards, depending on theire weight, two sails and they cover 10-25 knots. And thats the conditions they like to windsurf. In < 7 knots they dont show up, go mountainbiking, swim, go to the gym, or enjoy theire family, friends, dog garden ....

Have fun

crazychemical
22nd June 2007, 06:12 PM
for guest who posted this: What about the SB Hybrid Race ? It&#39;s as the name suggests a hybrid, not really long, not super short either.

Has anyone tried this board ?

Maybe even compared it to the old school long boards ?

The hybrid formula is a hybrid between a longboard and a formula board and i think you&#39;ll find its performance is comparable to the Neilpryde RS:X board.. Maybe check their website to get some testresults on their board and compare it to the hybrids of Starboard. However, i do&#39;nt think you&#39;ll find a lot of testresults anywhere as hybrid boards are usually quite unpopular with course racers and if purchased it&#39;s usually by superrecreational surfers.

crazychemical
22nd June 2007, 06:21 PM
A one board solution for me for 5-20 kn would be a GO.
If you make that 10-22 knots i can agree. Because in less thezn 10 knots the Go boards just float along unless you start using enorous rigs which are not fun to drag out of the water and make sailing the Go a bit too technical for the ones that use one. I&#39;d like to buy my Go139 an 8.5 rig so i can start planning in 7 knots or so, but once i have to start thinking of 9 m² rigs or above, i think you might just aswell take ur 8.5 or even 7.5 rig and start pumping your longboard cuz it&#39;ll be a lot faster than any shortboard up to 13 knots because of it&#39;s glide.
I do have to agree with LK on the statement that the longboard is the solution for most surfers as it is more enjoyable for much longer than other boards: if you compare the windrange of a slalom board, a formula board or a freeride board you see that when the wind picks up you can keep using them for much longer. the downside: you need the wind to be blowing over about 12 knots before you can take them out and blast. But once on, you can keep sailing a shortboard up to 25 knots or so. A slight difference is found in freestyle boards and wave boards but we&#39;ll leave those for the ones that frequent those conditions.

LK
22nd June 2007, 07:52 PM
Ha !

5 kn on the GO, I ment lightwind freestyle, like Ceasar on the Start,
You also learn a lot when sailing, learning going upwind on a shortboard in <8 kn.

As soon as you can plane on a (wide)shortboard, you are faster than a longboard, even on upwind/downwind course.

And considder, windrange for planing(most fun for most people in most conditions) :-) depends on rider weight.

So planing strarts from appr. 6-7 knots for leightweights and 8-10 knots for heawyweights

:-)))

Jean-Marc
23rd June 2007, 05:23 AM
Agree with LK above :

1) below 7 knots of wind, Serenity + 10.6 sail is king : a tiny bit faster than a Hobbie cat 18. Board speed is typically twice that of wind speed.
2) in 7/8 knots of wind, the speed of Serenity+70 cm fin combo is topping out at around 12 knots with a 10.6 sail for my 65 kg. By comparison, a Hobbie cat 18 is faster in these conditions because it can accelerate further.
3) in the same wind as above, speed is higher (typically 15 knots) with HS105+54 cm fin with the same sail. At least it&#39;s a good match with the Hobbie cat 18 and I can pass her again in higher wind (12 knots).

I guess the most difficult part is to find the correct board quiver that nicely matches your wind range, sail quiver and body weight. I don&#39;t know if a Phantom 380 can combine the best of both world : the performance of a gliding Serenity with that of a planing hull à la HS105 in light winds (say 2-12 knots with my 65 kg) with a single large 10.x sail ?

Cheers !

JM

crazychemical
24th June 2007, 12:18 AM
a small comment to what Jean-Marc said: he uses the serenity as the longboard. The serenity is a nonplanning board so it&#39;s logically that from 8 knots onwards it&#39;s slower then a wide shortboard because it sticks to the water and can&#39;t accelerate further. The phantom 380 or lets say Kona would still accellerate in those contidions as these both are planning boards.
However i still agree that at a certain point because of 1) their length and 2) their weight they would start to stagger and they are surpassed in performance by a wide shortboard.
As for freestyle, i don&#39;t think it is really possible to do the tricks you can pull off on a shortboard on a longboard and vica versa appart from a few exceptions. Though i doubt that the difference in lightwind freestyle on shortboard defferes much from longboard.
But then again, all of this, and this entire thread is pure speculation as nobody seems to have ever used a phantom 320/380 or bothered to propperly compare both long and shortboards in different conditions. And i haven&#39;t heard from anyone in the SB crew that enlighted us with their views.

Guest
24th June 2007, 01:28 AM
Well the phantom 380 is a race board so we can expect it to behave like one. Certainly the F2 380 is not far behind Serenity sub planning and will still plane well given 12 knots plus. Impressive, but pretty technical (awkward) to sail and not able to fly upwind on it&#39;s fin nor go deep downwind. It won&#39;t (fully) plane as early nor be as easy to sail as a Go. *board has said the 320 is slower than the 380 in all conditions.

The hybrids promise much but the weight makes them slow to plane and &#39;sticky&#39; when they do. Very unpopular at Minocra sailing when I visited recently. As LK says they might make sense in the future if they can be made lighter.

So no perfect lightwind board but I guess a toss up between a Kona type or a Go type for most.
PaulM

Guest
24th June 2007, 03:52 AM
However i still agree that at a certain point because of 1) their length and 2) their weight they would start to stagger and they are surpassed in performance by a wide shortboard

The kona style has been clocked at over 34 knots...doesn&#39;t seem to be limited by its weight or length.

Guest
24th June 2007, 07:06 PM
"Most of the shown board movements ar not doabel in a reasonabel way on a longboard.
This is shortboard freestyle."

I&#39;ve just watched the video yet again, and while it&#39;s very impressive I still can&#39;t see much in the board movements that a longboard couldn&#39;t do as well, almost as well, or perhaps even better.

Please bear in mind that I&#39;m not talking about Raceboards, which do turn very slowly. I&#39;m thinking about Windsurfer One Designs (which are still a major class where I come from) or Kona Ones. You have to move further back to get them to turn as fast, perhaps, but that&#39;s part of the skill and the fun. They move faster; a Windsurfer One Design with 6m sail is as fast as an RSX upwind under about 10 knots and as fast or faster around a windward/leeward course up to about 8 knots.

I don&#39;t think a railride is any more of a "gimmick" than a sail spin - they&#39;re both just freestyle tricks.

We get 20-30 people through our windsurf school a year, from 8 to 45 years old, and they buy longboards because were we are, they work better. That doesn&#39;t mean they&#39;d work better where you are. We get reasonably good wind, but it&#39;s fluky and we&#39;re on a narrow bay.

Guest
25th June 2007, 03:17 PM
I do believe that the future in recreational (as opposed to pure course racing) longboards belong to the KONA style of boards. The KONA is actually quite impressive for general cruising and blasting.

This style of is about as fast, or faster, as any freeride on the water in planing conditions. I have done 26 knots with 9 m camless sail, not even fully powered. Thanks to the actual planing scoop-rocker line it turns like any 140 liter freeride.

These new style longboards are just very versatile tools. I do hope that Starboard soon will admit that also other brands can do major innovations, and then launch their own variant of a freeride oriented longboard.

regards
PG

Guest
29th June 2007, 10:45 PM
A bit to catch up with there *people;
http://www.kona-windsurfing.com/files/kona-dealerbook-EN-low.pdf

James
4th July 2007, 01:11 AM
Whoa! My original post has appeared as an article in the Exocet Newspaper. http://www.exocet-original.com/ If I had known it would end up there maybe I would have written it better. Ha ha. :) I hope this doesn&#39;t tick-off the starboard folks.

crazychemical
4th July 2007, 02:52 AM
wicked! None of us quoted :d:d ? (we&#39;re all so vain)

Cheers James

pierrec45
1st September 2007, 08:40 AM
Look at some of the clips under

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=pierrec45

or if you prefer quality (youtube sucks) :
http://www.zapiks.com/profil/pierrec45/

I'm an Aussie wave sailor, who's temporarily living in some Godforsaken, land-locked place in North America. I consider 95% of boardsailors don't live within cohees of the warm waves of Hawaii, Bali and Sydney (home). In them's lakes and rivers and coastal waterways, wind is flaky and seasonal, wind chop is not jumpable.

I sail and freestyle longboards 'coz it keeps me fit. I don't use a harness so endurance. As you can see on videos, I push as much as I pull, so biceps and triceps. Dorsal and abdomen. Probably trapeze and deltoids, if I knew which is which.

It's cheap - the board in those clips cost me $25 - not a joke - in a garage sale. I sail that old gear from about 15 km/h to about 30 km/h. Yes, low wind is less eventful, but with freestyle I find things to do and shins to crack. I can prepare higher wind moves. Lotsa sailors just sit on the side, wait that the wind picks up all day, and trade incredible (really) war stories - I sail. I don't need a windmeter device to know which sail I'm gonna use, as I have only this one.

That kind of freestyle can be done on so many boards, Starboards, Konas, many non-rail moves are on shorties (110L), and so on. And once on a closet door.

When I do return in Australia, I'll be in the waves and then will carry more, fancier, more expensive equipment. I'll still have a longy to fart around for the rare low-wind days.

Cheers all,
PC.

Unregistered
3rd September 2007, 03:56 AM
been in this sport since 1982 since my 1st board the original twin finned "windsurfer rocket 99" .
all this talk about longboards is great but there been many out there stating its a "kona windsurfing revolution".
I laught at this statement , for the most part the kona is no different then the original equipes MK I , and fanatic mega cats of old.
but hey if the hype gets more into the sport , the more power to it.

There always has been long boards always will be, lets call it a "re-revolution".

look for these oldy goldies as these old longboards live on in the sporting good for sale section of the newspapers under old cottage decks or in damp basements.

the real windsurfing revolution has been the WIDE BOARD.

there is NO substitute , the WIDE BOARD IMHO has absolutley revolutionized the sport. If this wide board concept had been around when windsurfing was running full tilt i would think that the state of inudustry and the numbers of sailors out there would NOT have dropped off so dramatically .


shredulato

pierrec45
3rd September 2007, 11:14 AM
> the real windsurfing revolution has been the WIDE BOARD.
> there is NO substitute , the WIDE BOARD IMHO has absolutley
> revolutionized the sport.

Surely you must mean technically, and nothing else. I don't see more influx because of it, and this, in spite of many people learning on those boards. Newbies still come and go.

Anyways, those end up taking up the sport, wide boards or not, end up with the quiver within very few years, and the Tupperware sailing, then drop the sport 'coz either it's too expensive or they see no return for it - sail port then starboard and so on.

In terms of promoting the sport and keeping people happy, I don't see it.

Those who stick to the sport, then as in now, are those who sail for fun, regardless of equipment. The pleasure we get out of it is a personal choice, not a function of the board of the day or the conditions of the moment.

Random Sailor
3rd September 2007, 11:58 AM
I read somewhere that a new website dedicated to longboards is about to be launched.
www.lbwindsurfing.com.

I think longboards are coming back to seek revenge on Formula.

Unregistered
3rd September 2007, 06:36 PM
been in this sport since 1982 since my 1st board the original twin finned "windsurfer rocket 99" .
all this talk about longboards is great but there been many out there stating its a "kona windsurfing revolution".
I laught at this statement , for the most part the kona is no different then the original equipes MK I , and fanatic mega cats of old.
but hey if the hype gets more into the sport , the more power to it.

There always has been long boards always will be, lets call it a "re-revolution".

look for these oldy goldies as these old longboards live on in the sporting good for sale section of the newspapers under old cottage decks or in damp basements.

the real windsurfing revolution has been the WIDE BOARD.

there is NO substitute , the WIDE BOARD IMHO has absolutley revolutionized the sport. If this wide board concept had been around when windsurfing was running full tilt i would think that the state of inudustry and the numbers of sailors out there would NOT have dropped off so dramatically .


shredulato

I've not heard of the "Kona revolution". It IS a distinctly different type of board from an Equipe or another Raceboard; it's simpler (but still very challenging) to sail in some ways but more versatile in others.

You're right, the Wideboard is very important and kicks @ss a lot of the time. But for the sort of sailing many people do, a longboard is as good or better in a lot of ways. I normally sail somewhere that's probably pretty typical of many places around the world. A wideboard like a FW in the top 10% or world-class RSX sailors just aren't as fast or versatile as a longboard most of the time in such conditions.

They're all good - the only bad thing is abusing other sailors and their gear.

pierrec45
3rd September 2007, 07:50 PM
> Longboard site

Wow, that must be Australian, as it's the only place that still makes those.

I would contribute to such a site for the good of the sport, just as I would contribute to shorties sites and wave jumping video site if I had anything to contribute. It's the sport that matters, not the equipment you're on.

> they're all good

You're right: it's what the person makes of it. Frankly, nowadays I see people sailing with old gear and average skills having more fun than those with modern and numerous gear, sitting on the beach bitching that they're too good for the wind at hand.

Let people be and have their fun.

crazychemical
3rd September 2007, 07:51 PM
Well, just to show you how lonhgboards are coming back: Motion magazine of August 2007:'
return of the super 8'
short summary of the article: The usual super 8 was cancelled because the wind was blowing 6-11 knts and it was decided to organise a downwind slalom with a free sailchoice. The winner surfed a formula board with an 11m sail but 3rd place went to a longboard surfer. longboards rarely carry sails over 9 m, usually the don't ever work with 7.5. So taking that into consideration: cudos for longboards.

PGVirtual
4th September 2007, 07:05 PM
Shredulato,
I would still characterize the "step-tail longboards", one of them being the KONA, as a medium sized revolution. The long raceboards have evolved from subplaning longboards and perform very well in light winds. However, their performance and manouverability in strong winds are not as good. The KONA on the other hand originates from a shortboard. In fact, the KONA scoop-rocker line originates with one of the first really good semi-wide course race boards (AHD 310).
The KONA is sailed in a straight line like a 140 liter freeride, and it jibes very similarly as well. It is an additional bonus that the KONA works in light winds, in suplaning conditions.

What I am trying to say is that the KONA is VERY far removed from the original longboards, and is much more related (planing performance) to modern 140 liter shortboards!

regards
PG

pierrec45
6th September 2007, 12:25 AM
It is an additional bonus that the KONA works in light winds, in suplaning conditions.
What I am trying to say is that the KONA is VERY far removed from the original longboards, and is much more related (planing performance) to modern 140 liter shortboards!

I'm trying to get my hands on a Kona to see if it also caters for longboard type of freestyling, as in: http://broadbandsports.com/user/8483

I suspect it does, yet another bonus. Would like to do a full compare, more on that soon I hope if I can find one, preferably Kona-sponsored in case I break something ;-)

Unregistered
16th September 2007, 09:43 PM
Yes longboards are very cool. I remember the first time foots straps on longboards hit the stores. I still have a delaminated F2 lightning under the house and cant seem to throw it out. So many good memories. I like the sound of this new website 'Longboard Windsurfing'
I will be keen to see if there is a revival.

Sven

Aussie John
22nd October 2008, 09:41 PM
Well the revival is now a reality! This post sums up what alot of people are thinking, proving that alot of manufacturers over the years were wrong in there board manufacturing lineup and have damaged windsurfing. I am so happy longboards are back and I can't wait to get my feet on a new one. Well done Starboard, Exocet, Mistral and the LBWS Journal.

Happy Days

John

HotIce
23rd October 2008, 01:06 AM
It is short wide boards that are the most enjoyable boards for most people in most conditions.

In my opinion short wide boards have revolutionised windsurfing and have made the sport easier to learn and have fun.

Starboard have been the leaders in that revolution and deserve out thanks.

WILDWINDSCA
24th October 2008, 01:22 AM
I have been following the longboard thing for a year now and thinking of getting back into racing again.
now the following is all my opinion about whats hot what is not and maybe just maybe : what will be.
Right now there seems to be three forces at play. Formula at one end, longboard at the other and the "weak" hybrid in the middle.
Lets start with the Hybrid:
IMHO its on the way out, and this includes the RSX .
Why?? well here is a big reason, Starboard has for all intents dropped their line, no doubt after much deliberation . When the biggest Board Co. does that : its NO small move , its is a big thing!! The only contrary notion to this argument is that hybrid ( Bic) is Olympic and a big feeder in france is the Bic hybrid (and dont put france on the back burner, that is a sailing country!!)
To add the RSX is a dog, many racers ( steve bodner for example , tried it for an olympic bid then sold ...fast ( and I almost bought his used setup)
Its slower then a longboard in light airs and slower then a formula in medium heavy.
Its got the tough job of being the middle.
Its tactical yes, that its only strong point , BUT so is a longboard at all windspeeds.
If it loses to a formula setup in the Olympics , send you flowers to the Hybrid funeral.
Which brings me to Formula.
I would say formula was going to wane a bit , except for the starboard push.
Board durability, big masts and sails with resultant big money is finding middle of the road adherents giving up and getting back into the longboard or not trying it at all. Now this is not just me saying this, this is the word on the street in the US midwest. A place where a longboard revival going on.
People looking for a durable OD class will pass it by.
If it gets it olympic due, it will get bigger. But for many which some former racers,trying to race agiainst longboards in open reagattas, they are too tired of sitting on the beach .And the costs are just too extreme.

Which brings me back to the longboard.
Longboard revival:the fact people are talking is a big deal. It appeals many, the beginner , and the person who wants strict One design racing without the costs ie: kona.
appeal is there for the all out racer with the 380 designs.
Sail manufacturers are jumpiong on the longboard sails bandwagon , thats a biggie too.

So i would say in my opinion the longboard is stronger and getting stronger.
Hybrid well sorry, the writing is on the wall, people are out to get it , and well other then the olympics its "just dont fit" .
Formula will always have its adherents , albeit a specailized group, and it could fly higher with olympic tenure.

But the big winnner is the longboard.

Unregistered
25th October 2008, 06:38 AM
THE biggest stumbling block is the ability or otherwise of cobra to build boards with daggerboards down to weight and straight. So far it has yet to be proven.

Is it time to get rid of the "production" board ony rule for raceboard?

Unregistered
25th October 2008, 04:25 PM
Yes
Back to the good old Van Den Berg Raceboards .

Super light , virtuel industructable , perfect shape and everything worked on this board .

A 15 year old model is the father of the Phantom Race unfortunatly one of the "wide point in the back " inferior ones .

If you don't know the first rules about hydrodynamics don't shape raceboards .

Devil

puffin
25th October 2008, 10:20 PM
Longboarding in nonplaning conditions is a state of mind. Some people like it, some don't. Nonplaning longboarding was the entirety of windsurfing for awhile, and managed to be very popular! Those people were not ignorant savages waiting for the arrival of planing windsurfing...they just tried a longboard and loved the experience.

I have a longboard (a Superlight) and would like a Go as well (as a forgiving nonplaning freestyle platform). Today however I'm off to spend some quality time with my 77 liter hotrod.

Here is another Caesar freestyle video (I shot this last November):
http://www.peconicpuffin.com/the_peconic_puffin/2007/12/freestyle-video.html

Unregistered
28th October 2008, 05:55 PM
Hi All,

Star-Board will introduce next year a complete new Phantom Race with a new construction. The new shape give you a better and more consistent speed up wind with the dagger board. The deck is totally new with something never see before to help you to get on the rail quickly but also to have power in super light wind when you are not on the rail. So up wind the new shape make great improvement in all condition.
Reaching & downwind the new one get a quicker planning and get a better top end speed with more control. Jibe is more smooth and you keep your speed during all the jibe.

All the best
__________________
Rmi

Kombat 86 with S1 5,3
iSonic 86, 111, 133 with Code Red from 5,6 to 10m
Formula Experience 160 with Overdrive 11m
Formula Windsurfing One Design with 11m
http://www.star-board.com/2009/pages/news/news.php?readmore=351[/url]
http://www.star-board.com/2009/pages...p?readmore=438

Unregistered
18th May 2010, 01:41 PM
Very well said. In the original conception of the sport, when it was booming, the "funboard" was the workhorse and a shortboard was something you considered unpacking when it was 20 knots and over.

Now some newbies buy their 130 ltr/6.5 and bob around in a gusty inland 8 knots, expecting to plane.

I started out on a longboard and in light winds, little can compare. Even the best raceboard pales in comparison to the Windsurfer OD's upwind angle in 5 knots. Then again, you can paddle a SUP or kayak faster upwind in that wind. It's all very finicky obsessive/compulsive stuff that rewards a minority of hardcore light wind sailors ( a crowd who's champions often get pared down to the 140 lb triathletes and anorexic asians ;);)... kidding).

Now, if a typical north american windsurfer invests that same energy into packing the car and choosing a coastal/ great lakes, river destination on a steady 15-knots and over day, you'll see greater return from a standard shortboard quiver than any uber-expensive custom raceboard setup. You;ll get stronger and more...um, "rough n ready" with a dozen good shortboard seshes than a whole season of lightwind longboard. A new raceboard is redonkulous cash. A used longboard likely has neon pink footstraps, and is made by a derelict company with a three letter acronym for a name, you choose! A used formula is less onerous, even if it's breaky. And chix diggit, think of the money you'll save in bars.

Yes longboards have great glide, upwind railing and "carry" when they're up and planing, but the jibing is inherently chunky. Planing through is a pro level thing, the radius is fixed. Shortboards have gotten very refined and have power in jibes and you can really lock in and experience true acceleration and airtime. It's a function of having less mass.

And wide shortboards are more predictable and easier to balance on. A lower center of buoyancy, usually below the waterline, is actually easier to slog around on than a high volume longboard, which can be like standing on a log, even though slogging a shortboard is tiring and boring, and a longboard in those same conditions is graceful and responsive.

Want to know what the kids are doing these days? They're buying freestyle boards and going out on 5.4's in 9 knots just to slog around and light wind freestyle, ie helitack waterstart, gecko, falling in. Boring to watch but it's useful practice. They're buying 18m Foil Kites and cruising in 5 knots, no questions asked. What they're not doing is worrying about a board's waterline length or weather or not a 11.5m Vapor is going to pull you in 7.99 knots. They're also not debating on anonymous internet forums or faxing intimidating letters to Windsport like highwind Steve from Maui who thinks longboards are for grandmas or lightwind Dave who thinks anyone who owns a 80 ltr board must be a six figure alpha elitist who owns half of Hood River. If the wind isn't there, there are other things to do that will give you a workout, bikes, skate, snow, surf. Slogging around on a 99l is tedious, but when the wind comes, they'll be ready.