View Full Version : is86 vs. is87
22nd August 2007, 06:38 PM
i need a high wind slalom board (to second my is111) for a 5.5-6.5 range.
additionally, i want to use it for gps speed sailing as well.
i was all set to order the is87, but now that the successor is86 is out I have a few questions regarding its top speed.
how does the wider tail of the is86 affect the board's end speed?
would the is87 top results at the gps-speedsurfing.com be possible with the is86, given all other parameters remained the same?
in other words, i am interested in how much has the board's top speed suffered, for the (presumable) benefit of better acceleration, wider range and earlier planing of the new model (due to the wider tail, and consequently bigger fins)?
Franc from Portugal
23rd August 2007, 06:51 PM
Veedot da manhã boa,
os 86 são mais servidos se você desgastar 43 e o tamanho menor da sapata,
quando 87 forem mais para povos com pés mais grandes.
Entretanto, se você couber o somewher dentro entre este, as várias modalidades da instalação são possíveis mas você terá que esperar anos seguintes modela.
Beautifull da estada,
23rd August 2007, 07:44 PM
ok, great, thanks franc...
now, can somebody translate that for me? :)
24th August 2007, 03:31 AM
now, can somebody translate that for me? :)
It's a recipe for cheese scones:D
26th August 2007, 09:18 AM
Hi V, cant help you with the cheese scones but can say that due to a severe lack of speed wind conditions in the past couple of months, we have not really had any real opportunity to go "head to head" with the new production IiS86 against the very well proven iS87. Hopefully that will all change in the next few weeks and we'll be able to get real vMax ratings from the new model vs 2007.
In testing the protos the new model may have some edge in top end in ideal and steady conditions ( 2008 features DoubleFlat rocker vs constant on 2007 - so in combination with wider tail does in theory present a more efficent aspect ratio top end planing surface )
In the meantime, the iS87 continues to be a classic board in it's size, with really verstaile slalom and speed potential - plus it will be immediately available in your local market.
Cheers ~ Ian
28th August 2007, 08:53 PM
I have tested both Isonic 87 & 86 in july 2 weeks before the event in Pozo and The new Isonic 86 is probably the same speed BUT control on the 86 isonic is much better compare to the 87 Isonic..
Speed 87 fast
speed 86 faster
Jibing 87 good
Jibing 86 better
Control 87 nice
Control 86 nicer...
Kevin and I even tested the 86 against the 76 and we felt that 86 is better to control in hign wind speed..
The 86 will sure be a great board to have..
29th August 2007, 01:26 AM
How can it be that the iS 86 can have better top speed and better control? Maybe this is one for Tiesda but surely control and top end speed will come from a narrower tail rather than the wider tail which is a feature of the iS 86?
/ placed order for iS 86 today, can't wait!
29th August 2007, 02:58 AM
I'm no slalom board expert, but I think its mostly kind of a myth that tail width (alone) has that kind of influence. Check out reply no 9 by Ian Fox in this thread: http://www.star-board.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2478&highlight=iS86
for some of the other considerations in slalom board shaping that.
Or better: just be sure to put the iS86 through its paces when you get it!
29th August 2007, 04:33 AM
Hi Ola, thanks for the reply. That certainly is an interesting post which has both explained why I was wrong and confirmed why I was right ;) Ian Fox comments that the narrower board is more suitable in GPSSS conditions of very flat water which I think confirms the traditional view of tail width being instrumental, along with rocker line, in the overall top speed.
However, as we all know, these boards will generally be sailed in less than perfect conditions, in reality the majority of people sailing them (me included) will achieve higher speeds through the ease of use of the board and I think it is generally accepted that the iSonic range has been so successful due to this user friendliness.
Whatever the details, if the board is as good as my iS111 I will be more than happy!
29th September 2007, 05:58 PM
... we have not really had any real opportunity to go "head to head" with the new production IiS86 against the very well proven iS87. Hopefully that will all change in the next few weeks and we'll be able to get real vMax ratings from the new model vs 2007.
Any news on head to head testing of the two boards?
30th October 2007, 12:03 AM
How about that head to head testing ? ;)
Speed differences, range...?
Unfortunately, the is87 is out of stock (regarding your advice) - the decision has to be made between the is86 and is96 (to second my is111)
Thanks and cheers, v.
31st October 2007, 04:20 PM
Sorry, been a bit carried away with the iS76 lately - and not had the 86 on hand to do the 87 vs 86 head to head myself. But I know the Dutch crew have - and the feedback was pretty clear that in top end conditions they considered the 86 actually had the edge over the 87. It came down to a narrow (not quantum) margin, but for the 86 definitely edged out their "favorite" 87 in top end. Range was not much in it because the extra width helped bottom end in 86 but was offset by the slightly less early planing of the DFC 86.
That pretty much matches the development testing results as well.
Cheers ~ Ian
2nd November 2007, 04:30 AM
Would be interesting to hear how its going with the iS76. I dont know any one else who has one, so feed back from exerienced speedsters would be good. I've only managed to get out on mine once (in less than ideal conditions and sailing with injuries) so only managed mid-30k's. What seems to be the ideal wind speed for it, sail/fin combos, top speeds (for GPSSS), set up tips. Hows it compairing with iS50? The one time I used my iS76, it felt much smaller than the iS87, so I'm guessing its feeling more iS50 than iS87?
2nd November 2007, 05:46 PM
Going every bit as expected - and even a bit better after a rather suicide Sunday last weekend when I decided to see how far the stock iS76/32 fin could go in 30-40kts open water. after having it so sweet on the speed course, I wasn't sure how it would fare. First couple of massively overpowered runs were "attention gathering" but quickly progressed towards challenging and then even capable in almost impossible conditions. Lets just summarize that the "couple" of survival runs finished 3 hrs or so later, very satisfied.
Board was very rideable, safe and free, more than expected but front footstraps were a bit new on this board and really not "worn in" which resulted in a couple of mishaps with front foot eject over chop. (see the other thread* on that). In wild conditions, the inside FRONT position may prove the better option (outside OK for flat water speed). In that mode it required a lot of positive mastfoot/rig pressure but responded very well to that (need to really keep the power on, clew fully sheeted in) I guess the word is "commitment".
I've not had a chance to run true Vmax speeds but in one session I pulled 5 over 40 in fading, marginal speed conditions from 8 or 9 runs when 36-38's seemed to be par: setup for that was : fin C3 X2 24.5 and CodeRed 5.6m, mast foot bang on the recommended, FRONT straps out and back, REAR straps forward and out. All seems about right.
Board seems plenty "big" for speed sailing (luxury size...) but still riding quite small in terms of hi speed, top end trim, not flighty nor difficult. "Push-on" confidence at top end was very high (especially thru rolling speed chop), and sailing back up the course was dream…
From the outset I expected iS76 to be a bit "big" to fill the gap to iS50, but it slots in very nicely, carrying it's "light wind speed" performance very well into iS50 territory (with solid practical overlap and no need for anything in between).
I was pretty hooked on this one from the start, seems each session the more I push it the better it gets. There's some acquaintance factor to reach the full limits in open water, but once you do the potential and results for the conditions are rather impressive. Definitely the footstrap "settle (wear) in" thing improves a lot of the initial "front foot" issue. I'd go so far to suggest switching a pre-used set from another board onto the 76 if you have any "new strap" issues with the iS76 straps/thick pad combo.
And confidence, keep that word firmly in mind when it gets gnarly. You can really take it by the neck - and wring it. You might be surprised, and not in a negative way.
Let's know how you go.
Cheers ~ Ian
* = http://www.star-board.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2931
2nd November 2007, 08:26 PM
You say "REAR straps forward and out", which position is that exactly, if I remember correctly there are 4 ways of mounting the straps in the outer position. And why did you decide to have them at that position?
2nd November 2007, 09:59 PM
Thanks Ian, sounds fun. I'm looking forward to clocking up a lot of miles on the iS76, just need the UK Autum winds to kick in. I'm using Dakine contour straps which I use on all my boards, they really do feel nice.
3rd November 2007, 03:23 AM
Using conventional 155mm strap placement/pitch,
iS76 offers 4 sets of REAR strap options :
INBOARD : Fwd and aft
OUTBOARD : Fwd and aft.
Same options on the FRONT strap.
For my setup, I often use the OUTBOARD more because that offers the very best leverage over the board/fin - and in a miniscule way also gets the rider more outboard.
It's also a more prone/locked stance and not as easy in rough conditions.
I chose the OUTBOARD FORWARD settings on 76 because over rough water and at super hi speed the more fwd position allows the rider to calm the board more. If you are in super flat speed conditions, or light wind speed (when water and conditions are calmer) , then the OUTBOARD REAR would be an option. Over extreme rough water on 76, the inboard rears will provide better control thru better foot clearance from water albeit at reduced leverage over fin etc.
Another factor in choosing the FWD vs AFT option realtes to selecting the pitch (stance) between the FRONT and REAR straps - my preference is more medium stance and accordingly on the 76, using the REAR on FWD and the FRONT on BACK achieves that. It's more reactive and sensitive but reduced rider control (leverage) over board (longitudanal) trim.
Note on the 76 we only offer 2 FWD/AFT options at all positions (normally it could be 3 ; so FWD:MID:AFT) - in that case the selection (for me) would be MID based.
Also worth noting that there is no solid rule to use the matching INBOARD or OUTBOARD settings front and rear. According to rider style/preference/conditions/sailing mode (speed vs slalom) the best position will vary a lot- and a combo such as INBOARD FRONT with OUTBOARD REAR would also be valid on a board like 76. INBOARD FRONT also seems to suit a lot of people more with the thick contour pad on 76 front foot.
Although I haven't used any optional straps on my 76, it's clear (as Mark commented) that contour straps like DaKine will certainly help dial the front foot "fit" issue in where it occurs. Most of the problem in my experience was resolved with a couple of good sessions to really bed the straps in (distort them to fit my feet). Some of the early 2008 Slickstraps dont open excessively wide (not normally a problem, actually normally an advantage), but where you need "extra" strap adjustment (as on front of 76 over the thick underfoot pad), then (while new) they struggled to make it.
Nothing like a few hrs over 30kts to sort that out though ;)
Cheers ~ Ian
4th December 2007, 10:25 PM
86 is out in the market since couple of month right now and more feedbacks should be available...
I'm in front of a choice: is 86 or lower price is 87 ?!
I' ve read what Ian has written but didn't understand well.
Ian or Remi,would you please help me with this doubt?!
Today I was sailing with my 60 cm wide board in very gusty wind and I've suffered too much for control when over 25 kt and hard chop crossed my board...
Is 87 or 86 adapt for gusty wind?
What is the "working" starting point for both? I mean,how much wind it does need at 82/4 kg for make it work right?
4th December 2007, 11:21 PM
The difference between this 2 board are better in acceleration due a nice lenght balance compare to the iSonic 87,. This help also in gust, the board is more stable and more easy to control. So the iSonic 86 is more easy than the iSonic 87 but both of them are good slalom machine. The 86 need less level to access to high performance.
All the best
5th December 2007, 03:52 AM
Thank you Remi.
I was talking with a Starboard rider and he was telling me about the beauty of 2008 101.
He and another top sailor is pushing the board at its limit (lot of wind in this period) and seems it handle 30 kns easy as well as 15/16.
He suggested me to scale down from my 111 2007 in favor of it and get the new 133.He states that there's no big empty room between the 2 board.Do you agree?
In this option what's the moment for switch board? 16 kns?
5th December 2007, 03:49 PM
It's depend of the level of each racer, but yes it's possible to do 133 and 101, but for racing I choose (85kgs) to have 133, 111, 86. Going in 30 knots with the 101 is correct particulary in flat water, but definitely not faster as the 86 in every water conditions. So in your case if you will have only 2 boards, the choice is correct.
For info this my choice :
133 wit 9 and 10m²
111 with 9, 7,7 and 6,7
86 with 6,7 and 5,6
So let me know yours sails?
Hope this can help, but if you have more questions no problems.
All the best
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