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View Full Version : Acid 74 2005 vs Acid 74 2007 for 69Kg


davide
6th September 2007, 07:12 AM
Hello,
I am 69 Kg and looking for a high wind board (4.0-5.0) to retire my F2 252 (52cm X 72 L).

I am thinking to buy a DRAM Acid 74 2005 which seems to be a bit bigger then the 252 (53.5, 74L, posossibly, more parallel/straight rails and possibly wider tail). A bit more bottom end power should be a good thing given where I sail (San Francisco Bay Area). Any idea of how this board compares with the venerable F2 252?

But more importantly: can somebody comment (maybe Ola) on the difference between a Acid 74 2005 vs the Acid 74 2007? With all the changes in shapes of the last 3 years it is a bit hard to keep track and decide which one to get!

thanks a lot!
D

Ola_H
6th September 2007, 02:05 PM
Yeah, the 74 defintely went though a few changes. First we had the classic 04 Acid 74 which was the last in line of many, many years of development (Suft 70->Acid 70->Acid 74).

The came the 2005 Acid 74 you're thinking about. Its a completely new design. Conacaves are gone etc. I though this board felt a bit big and by modenr standards a bit long, but it is still a favourite of mine. Very loose in a turn and with a certain kind of flow that is not easy to find. For me it planed early and easily handled 5.5 or even 5.7.

After that we got the Pure Acid 73 which was a ctually a slight redesign of previous the 05 Acid 70. This board was developed from an EVO 70 but draw out, so to say. It was a nice board any many still love it. Despite the EVO heritage, more width and less length it rode more "classic" than the 05 Acid on a wave. It handled chop very well though.

The we reach the 07 Pure Acid 74 (same shape as 08 PA74). This is again a completely new shape, based on a fast modern wave rocker and a trick v bottom. The PA74 is easily the fastest of the bunch and a very early planer and a great B&J board. But it is stillo a wav e it excels. It has a remarkable way of locking into a hard bottom turn and just track through everything. The tail feels very "solid" and needs some dedication at speed, but rewards with a very precise carve. In slower waves, there is still enough outline curve to keep the board loose. On top of this it has a nice and compact feel to it and great control in high wind. The 07-08 PA 74 is a very, very good board which is both high performance and easy to sail as well as extremely versatile. Its a favourite with the team too. A small remarks on width: The PA74 may seem very wide at 54cm, but we tested it against a 1.5cm narrower version in the proto stage and the wide one was simply a better board at everything.


Comparing 05 and 07 is not so easy. They are very different in feel but both of them are favourites of mine. The 07 does feel more "modern" in a way and for some reason the more compact shape simply feel more right. The 05 had a certain kind of flow (probably due to more rocker) which I miss sometimes, but I never got around that it felt a bit "big" and long. I think both boards have a similar sail size spectrum, the 07 maybe having a very slight edge both with bigger sails and smaller sails.

So, hard to choose. The 05 is still a very nice board and at a good price probably a bargin. The 07 combines world class down the line performance with great B&J performance in a very unusual way and is very easy to get on with. Its just up to you to choose...

davide
6th September 2007, 10:22 PM
So, hard to choose. The 05 is still a very nice board and at a good price probably a bargin. The 07 combines world class down the line performance with great B&J performance in a very unusual way and is very easy to get on with. Its just up to you to choose...
Thank you for the reply, I'll agonize for a while ... although the 05 is exactly half the price!

davide
11th September 2007, 08:12 AM
Comparing 05 and 07 is not so easy. They are very different in feel but both of them are favourites of mine. The 07 does feel more "modern" in a way and for some reason the more compact shape simply feel more right. The 05 had a certain kind of flow (probably due to more rocker) which I miss sometimes, but I never got around that it felt a bit "big" and long. I think both boards have a similar sail size spectrum, the 07 maybe having a very slight edge both with bigger sails and smaller sails.

So, hard to choose. The 05 is still a very nice board and at a good price probably a bargin. The 07 combines world class down the line performance with great B&J performance in a very unusual way and is very easy to get on with. Its just up to you to choose...
Well, I start to feel silly but after almost deciding for an Acid 2007 Wood 74 I got doubts about its ... volume. At 150 pounds is the 2007 Wood going to be too small for the sometimes erratic conditions of a 4.0-5.0 in the Bay-Area (especially Crissy)? Should I consider the next board up? will an acid 80 (but from which year?) still cover the intended 4.0-5.0 with comfort or would it be too big? Any difference between 2005/2007 Asid 74 when it comes to slightly underpowered conditions?

The questions might seem silly, but it is again quite hard to figure on paper how these new boards with new shapes will perform ...

thanks in advance for a reply
Davide

Ola_H
11th September 2007, 01:16 PM
I' m actually a tad over 150 lbs and I would definitely not get a bigger board if you want. If anything both 74 liter boards are if anything a tad big for true all round wave performers, but if you'r not only riding very clean conditions this extra size will be good. Sama for B&J and backside type wave conditions. The 74 will be perfect. It (or both of them) easily takes a 5.3 too and you can squeze a 5,7 on without to much trouble if you need that.

Since You had a 72 l board before, I think you will handle the 74 when it comes to "sinking" so to say. And especially the 07 PA74 will be much more effective in light and gusty stuff than your F2.


Underpowered: I would say the 07 has an edge from its faster rocker line. Its a bit easier to get (and keep) going.

No silly questions. I know its hard to make these kind of decisions. We're here to try to help.

davide
11th September 2007, 02:10 PM
I' m actually a tad over 150 lbs and I would definitely not get a bigger board if you want. If anything both 74 liter boards are if anything a tad big for true all round wave performers, but if you'r not only riding very clean conditions this extra size will be good. Sama for B&J and backside type wave conditions. The 74 will be perfect. It (or both of them) easily takes a 5.3 too and you can squeze a 5,7 on without to much trouble if you need that.

Since You had a 72 l board before, I think you will handle the 74 when it comes to "sinking" so to say. And especially the 07 PA74 will be much more effective in light and gusty stuff than your F2.

Underpowered: I would say the 07 has an edge from its faster rocker line. Its a bit easier to get (and keep) going.

No silly questions. I know its hard to make these kind of decisions. We're here to try to help.
Thank you, it really sounds like the 2007 Acid 74 is what I need. The F2 gave me indeed quite a lot of experience in sailing with my knees under water! (kind of fun actually, if not exactly efficient). The problem in the Bay is mostly to get greedy ... you go out on the small board even when it is not a solid 20Kn+ ... and then ...

By the way, the Acid is the first step in building a minimal quiver covering 4.0 to 8.0 sails and (bay area) conditions.

Acid 74 / Isonic 76 (or 86) / Isonic 122, for sub-5.5 / 5.5-6.5 / (6.5)-8.0

Given the efficiency of modern designs it might work: I will finally stop carrying around 5 boards!

Screamer
13th September 2007, 10:35 PM
Hi Davide

I'm far from wave board expert, but I thought I could offer you some thoughts re iSonics. By coincidence, I also plan to get iSonic122 as my biggest board, but the differences are: I'm 85-87 kg and I will use it with a 9m. I've tried it several times and while it's an excellent board, I think it will be way too big for your 69 kg. You may want to think about iS111 or even iS101 (Ola might help here again).

davide
13th September 2007, 11:01 PM
Hi Davide

I'm far from wave board expert, but I thought I could offer you some thoughts re iSonics. By coincidence, I also plan to get iSonic122 as my biggest board, but the differences are: I'm 85-87 kg and I will use it with a 9m. I've tried it several times and while it's an excellent board, I think it will be way too big for your 69 kg. You may want to think about iS111 or even iS101 (Ola might help here again).
Hi Screamer,
I am not sure, it really depends on what you want. If you want performance in very marginal conditions the is122 might be too small for you .. or maybe I am not used to the perfomance of new boards!

Where I am now: my current biggest board is a Mike's Lab 74cm, probably 120-130 liters weighting almost nothing (it is basically an eggshell, it goes straight from the VW to the water). With this board, a 52cm Tectonics and a 8.0 (my biggest sail) I can sail with barely a ripple of wind. I expect the Isonic to fill this place when the ML disintegrates. An IS111 is a possibility but I would be surprised if it can perform as well as the ML in marginal conditions, while the iS122 is of very similar dimensions (a bit larger and compact, but probably with a bit less volume)

By the time I am on a 6.5 I just need a smallish slalom board. I am always amazed at the efficiency of a slalom board in respect to a bump-jump/freeridish one. Yesterday I was out suddenly underpowered and struggling with my 5.6 and my Roguewave (56x85L). I decided to give a try to my Sonic W52 instead of changing sail and ... bingo, I had a very nice session: the S52 is 52cm X 74 L !! (Both boards were on the same Tectonics 30cm Slalom).

So my rational is really: iS122 for very marginal condition, is86 or even iS76 for unpowered 6.5 all the way to overpowered 5.5, and then the 2007 Acid 74 for Bump-Jump sub-5.0.

There is a big gap between a is76/iS86 and the iS122 but it should work, the triplet is76, is96/101, iS122 is too indulgent! iS111 +is76/86? Maybe

steveC
14th September 2007, 01:51 AM
Hi Davide and Screamer,

I can frankly say that I tend to think much like Davide here, because I think about my biggest board (with a larger fin too) to get me up and going in the very lightest of winds, and if things come up I'm on something quite a bit smaller. Admittedly, I'm surmising that Screamer wants to be powered up on the iS122 and the 9.0 to take advantage of the other side of the spectrum. Many believe that slalom boards are designed to be driven hard and focus accordingly. Believe me, there's a lot of truth to that philosophy, but I also think slalom boards are particularly potent and effective on the light side of things too, as evidented by Davide's successful switch from the RogueWave to Sonic.

As a aside about the ML, it's my experience that they don't disintegrate that easily, despite their notable light weight. My 1998 9'4" ML Course Slalom is still quite sound and going strong. However, I have to admit that its design is a bit outdated on the scheme of things, but I'm still quite fond of it.

Screamer
14th September 2007, 05:02 AM
Davide
I see that you don't mind this thread (yours) has gone on a tangent. It's obvious what you want so go for it (especially if you have experience with the similar design and want every last ounce of light wind performance). I was thinking along the lines of iS122 whole range (bottom to the very top). In my experience, lighter sailors will meet their "overpower" point much sooner.
I don't think iS122 will be too small for me & light winds, in fact I was considering iS111 also (at the moment I use a JP114 + 9.0 - a bit over the top really). That's because I want max wind range covered, rather than many specialist tools. I've been on Formulas/other wide boards, and don't want to go back there. So my quiver is just two rangey boards (at the moment) - Kombat86 (4-6m sails) + largish slalom (7-9m sails).
Another coincidence (?), I've just ordered Acid74, I know it won't get as much use as other boards, but for those truly mental days it should work well (yes, a special case here, but I'm tired of getting hammered ;)). Are there days in Bay area when your F2 252 is way too big for you?

Ah, the never ending quiver woes ;)

davide
14th September 2007, 01:32 PM
Davide
I see that you don't mind this thread (yours) has gone on a tangent.

No not at all!
In my experience, lighter sailors will meet their "overpower" point much sooner.

That is obviously quite true, just look at the size of slalom/speed racers. Especially with the 8.0/52cm fin the ML can get out of hand if the wind pick ... more legs and abdominals help and I got used to this big stuff. I grew up sailing on a lake and I still love light wind sailing, there is nothing like planing in a wisp of wind, perfectly balanced, on a water surface with barely a ripple.

I do think that there are conditions, especially in high wind, when a light weight can carry a lot of sail. I am regularly out with my S52/5.6 when heavier people are on 4.2/4,5. I am very well balanced on the board in those conditions and overpowered really just means going faster ... Again, a heavyweight pro would be probably using a 7.0 no substitute for weight ...


As a aside about the ML, it's my experience that they don't disintegrate that easily, despite their notable light weight. My 1998 9'4" ML Course Slalom is still quite sound and going strong. However, I have to admit that its design is a bit outdated on the scheme of things, but I'm still quite fond of it.

I did not mean to sound negative about the Mike's Lab board. This particular one was build as a racing shell and it is a single carbon layer at the bottom. It has lasted quite a few many years all things considered and it is still going strong.

Are there days in Bay area when your F2 252 is way too big for you?
There are days in the Bay area with a 30Kn+ at the north tower of the Golden Gate Bridge (right in the "dishwasher" area, where the tide is strongest). In those days at Candlestick can easily blow 10kn more ... time for a 3.2 and possibly something very small as a board. I used to have a fantastic Blair board that was just tiny tiny tiny. It was perfect at Crissy field with a 3.8 ... only problem is that it only worked in very (very!) powered up conditions and I got tired of it, it was not fun to try to waterstart in front of an approaching powerboat! .. I should have kept it as a crazy day board.

Congrats for the acid, I ordered mine too (2007 wood) and with a bit of luck I might be able to get it out before winter!

davide
20th September 2007, 07:12 AM
I got my Acid 74 Wood 2007 today and I took it out in really high wind conditions. The SFO airport was delaying flights due to a wind advisory with gusts up to 45 miles/hour!

When I went out it was blowing 30+ and well ... with a very overpowered 4.2 the Acid 74 felt large ... I am not sure if a 3.7 would have helped.

Maybe I just have to get used to it and conditions were way too hard for a board that was not even set up. Still ... I hope I will not end up regretting not having asked some info about the Acid 69: it might have been a better choice ... I'll post some updates, tomorrow is supposed to blow only 20 and it might be a good day to set up the board.

Ola_H
20th September 2007, 10:52 PM
I think you will get a better hang of the PA74 with some more time on it. Of course the PA68 would be better for mental days, but since you also wanted the board for mote "normal days" I still think the 74 is a better choice overall. You might wanna try a smaller fin for the mental days.

davide
8th December 2007, 11:41 PM
I think you will get a better hang of the PA74 with some more time on it. Of course the PA68 would be better for mental days, but since you also wanted the board for mote "normal days" I still think the 74 is a better choice overall. You might wanna try a smaller fin for the mental days.
Well, after a few more times out I am inclined to consider the Acid 74 (2007) as a "mid wind" board. It is large with a large tail and for somebody my weight (68Kg/150pounds) I think the good range is really 4.2-5.5.

In that sail range I am not using the stock Drake Wave because it does not go upwind well enough for the Bay Area. I am using instead a Wardog Wave 9.0" http://www.surfingsports.com/images/wd_wave_90.jpg that is fast, maneuvrable, and works upwind very well. With this fin the Acid will serve great in B&J high/mid-winds ... (By the way, can somebody explain what is the rational of having such a small 8" finbox on the Acid? I hope it is not to save 50 grams of weight because it does limit adjustability with larger fins)

For high wind I now have a Angulo Chango (65 liters x 51 cm http://www.angulosurf.com/) that I was lucky enough (it is winter) to try out in a big northerly and works just great. It reminds me of my old Blair wavegun but with way bigger range that I estimate from 5.0 all the way to places where I do not dare to go. Construction seems excellent and it has the great touch of having double straps screws for an ultra solid and twist-proof connection.

As a general comment I am still convinced that large boards suffer in chop, they might work great in nice waves but at least for me they do not work as well in confused, high frequency chop conditions ... same, and especially so, for slalom: it is the main reason why I ordered a Carbon Art 52, instead of the Isonic 74, as my next mid/high-wind (down to overpowered 5.5) slalom board http://www.carbonart.co.nz/boards/slalom.php :)

Jonathan
11th December 2007, 06:14 PM
Hi Davide,
I'm about 70kg and have a 2007 PA74, I find it surprisingly floaty and quick to plane, also effortless at keeping upwind. It is only in NO wind that you realise it is only 74l. Great thing I have found is that with one foot in front of the mast it is very stable for shlogging (sp?)and an easy board to no wind gybe. I love it! I have sailed earlier Acid boards but this is much easier to sail IMO in both freeride mode and waves - I really believe it is a quantum improvement as an all round small board - if anything I find it feels big in really strong wind but still works fine. I have sailed both 2006 and 2007 PA80 in waves, my general impression is that both the 2007 80 and 74 plane at very similar wind strength (2006 quicker to plane and better for B+J) for our weight, the only advantage the 80 has is when there is no wind - very much outweighed by it being too big (but still fun) all the rest of the time. And just to confuse things the Evo 70 is also outstanding, but maybe a little different to what you are used too. FYI I've been sailing for many years but still class myself as an enthusiastic average to crap wavesailor! Good luck

Jonathan
11th December 2007, 06:27 PM
Somehow when I started the response I didn't realise we were all on the next page! I think the Drake fins take a little getting used to, I started off using bigger fins but have gone back to the Drake, just seems to suit it so well. Certainly agree that it isn't a "small" board but it does have an incredible range and has turned out to be the board I use the most.

davide
11th December 2007, 10:15 PM
Hi Davide,
I'm about 70kg and have a 2007 PA74, I find it surprisingly floaty and quick to plane, also effortless at keeping upwind. It is only in NO wind that you realise it is only 74l. Great thing I have found is that with one foot in front of the mast it is very stable for shlogging (sp?)and an easy board to no wind gybe. I love it! I have sailed earlier Acid boards but this is much easier to sail IMO in both freeride mode and waves - I really believe it is a quantum improvement as an all round small board - if anything I find it feels big in really strong wind but still works fine.
Hi Jonathan,
We pretty much agree. The board is quick to plane and indeed putting the foot in front of the mast helps slogging since there is a lot of volume in that area. Conditions are very flacky in Oct-Dec in SF and I made it back to shore twice in barely-moving conditions: very neat! The upwind depends on the fin: the stock Drake is ok but is simply too small for the Bay area: we get easily up to 5Kn of tide here and the Drake has too small a surface area, especially near the base, to fight that. With a Dill or Wardog or similar fin upwind is no problem.

I have your same impression in the hi-wind: there is no free lunch and the board feels big because it is so: when you cross below 4.0/4.2 (think powered/overpowered 4.0-3.5) a dedicated small board works way better. Even on a steady 4.7 the agility of a Chango can be more fun.

Anyway: I got my Chango for a bargain and finally I am back to have a high-wind quiver that can cover all conditions I might run into. It is going to be a great 2008 season :)

Ola_H
12th December 2007, 01:58 AM
I am back to have a high-wind quiver that can cover all conditions I might run into. It is going to be a great 2008 season :)

No doubt boards have been geting more all round and you can get away with a bigger all rond wave board nowadays, I would say. But there is stll nothing that beats that small little ultra radical thing when the conditions are up to it. Good luck with your quiver.