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Formula
27th November 2007, 11:15 PM
rumour is filtered out that AUS-0 is using 160 to win races in Brazil.

i wonder why not 161 although he is not contracted to ride any star-board.


is 161 a step backwards ?

windstock anarchy
28th November 2007, 10:44 PM
I don't think Steve would switch to somthing that he hadn't tested and trained on before a race like the worlds.
I heard that there are some f2 riders that are also ride'n there 06 f2 instead of there 07 f2s.
I think the reason for this is the performace in light vs. heavy conditions. Most 06 boards had narrow tail widths.
These were good in heavy conditions but suffered some in light air race'n. Then in 07 everyone added 3 or 4 cm to the tail. This helped in the light air, but gave up some performace in the heavy stuff.

A plateau in formula board development was, i think, around 2005. After that any changes that were made took away performace in one area to enhance another.

I race FW with two boards. A bic 1.4 for the events that will be held in winds that will drop below 10knots, and the 06 f2 for events where the wind min is not expected to go below 10knots.
It works good for me. The 1.4 is much faster in the light stuff than anything out today. But if the wind picks up I'm at a disadvantage.

Today FW is almost a one design class. use'n and knowing how to use the stuff is part of the race.
I think any FW board from 2001 to 2008 can be competive.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/49/Pogo_-_Earth_Day_1971_poster.jpg

mark h
29th November 2007, 02:27 AM
I think it is true that Steve AUS-0 was using a 160 for the reasons that windstock explained. The higher performance was always there for the taking, but as pre-2007 boards had to cover 7 to 30 knots, so light and high wind performance was needed. Now that the PWA has replaced Formula with Slalom 42 (36 for 2008). This is a good thing as Formula can consintrate on "true light wind" performance (no more hanging onto a barn door in 30k winds for valuable world cup points). Seems like all the manufactures have now gone super wide tails & rockers that are light wind biased.

SeanAUS120
29th November 2007, 04:14 PM
Not exactly correct.

Steve has been racing on the 160 since April. If you remember back, he used an F2 FX V at the Europeans in Spain, but talking to him after that event he wasn't happy with how the F2 was stalling slightly in super light winds when pumping back onto the plane from a tack. So the week after he tried out the 161 in the Euro-Cup, Portimao. Despite winning nearly all the races (not the biggest fleet at that event), his comments were that he'd "never sail the 161 again". lol.

Testing it against the 161 he believed the 160 was faster in windy conditions. Not that we get windy conditions at any event in Europe these days, but Steve's goal has always been the Worlds in Brazil. So I think he opted to get the 160 dialled all season to be ready for the Worlds.

The jury is out on which board is faster. Personally, I'm very happy with my 161, and I did a lot of testing against my 160 to be sure. Steve told me he thought the nose on the 161 was too sharp at the corners, and would catch on the waves downwind. He also thought the 160's nose was too thick and blunt, also catching waves downwind (which is why Fanatic boards always had thin noses, and no doubt we'll see a thinner nose on the new Gaastra FW board), but it wasn't as bad as the 161.

The general consensus I felt in Europe, was that the 161 was great if you could find a fin to get it to work. The 160 would work with nearly any fin. The 161 is not a bad board, I just felt it took a lot more to get the best out of it than the 160 did. That's ok, I like the challenge, and I will continue to use my 161 this season...

The problem is finding the right fin for it. Its all good to say that an R19 S-- is the best fin, but I tried about 5 of them and only found one that I liked. The flex characteristics of the Kashy and new Select fins better suit the 161 and I think you'll find the top guys on it in Brazil are all using Kashy's (Steve used a Kashy most of the season btw), like Vesterstrom / Schurmann etc. But if you haven't got $1250 to spend don't worry, there's new Deb's with Kashy-like outlines in Brazil, so no doubt they will be on the market again next year at a "normal" price ;)

Anyhow, there's plenty of guys using FX IV's in Brazil (Dennis Littel is on an F2 2005 board I believe?) so its not only Starboard. Its a good thing for Formula, and will go hand in hand with the new 2-year locked boards rule, as new people coming into the sport don't have to buy the latest boards to be competitive. Its helping us here in Australia and we're already getting the numbers up to +40 FW guys in our local events in Sydney.

* Mark H: What's wrong with high-wind formula? Pretty much everyone I know on the tour likes high-wind FW. Brazil, was the most highly anticipated event this year simply because everyone knew it was going to be windy there!

Cheers.

mark h
29th November 2007, 08:42 PM
Hey sean, absolutly nothings wrong with high wind formula, can be exciting, done it myself on loads of occassions. What I was trying to say was: As Slalom format has replaced formula on the PWA, manufactures seem to making there formula board shapes biased towards light winds, and not the "all-round, any wind strength" board shape of pre-2006.
Cheers

Unregistered
1st December 2007, 08:25 PM
Althought I've succefully used my 161 all over the season (and almost in any wind) I have to say that some guy here has felt that (hypothetical) better high wind attitude of 160 or that "user-friendly" personality.
But when you're not one of PROS your credit about these arguments is limited and you go on thinking about you're not as good as the new board is!
When,later in the season,you discover your sensations were close to the ones many people out there has you feel happy....
Right now,after 10 manches, Antoine (161) is first,Steve (160) second,Aarnon (160) fourth,Juju (161) fifth,Paulao (161) sixth,Jesper (161) seventh,Fabio (160) eight,Wojtek (160) nineth,Michal (160) tenth.
If we read deeper we could say that 160,in Fortaleza condition,suits fine for many guys as 161 does.In my opinion ranking would be quite similar if they would used 161.Problem is that they aren't able to beat A2 in any stuff they sail!
What really impress me is that massive presence of Starboard in top 10 and the attitude to release always top products able to perform at the top also after couple of seasons!
I'm really interested in Remi or Ian opinion about this argument....

Unregistered
2nd December 2007, 01:06 PM
From the pics, it seems like Woitek is on a 161

mark h
3rd December 2007, 09:55 PM
Check these videos out.
http://www.formulawindsurfing.org/news.php?id=1340
Cheers

Remi
4th December 2007, 12:00 AM
Formula Windsurfing World results

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/6128/17zg7.th.jpg (http://img527.imageshack.us/my.php?image=17zg7.jpg)

FRA192 Antoine Albeau Starboard 161 NP RS 12.5 NP RS 11.8 NP RS 10.7 Deboichet 70

AUS0 Steve Allen Starboard 160 Gaastra 12.0 Gaastra 11.0 Gaastra 10.0 Deboichet 70 Deboichet 70 Deboichet 70

ARG3 Gonzalo Costa Hoevel F2 FXV NP RS 11.8 NP RS 10.7 NP RS 9.8 Kashy 70 Kashy 70 Kashy 67

ISR1 Arnon Dagan Starboard 160 NP RS 11.8 NP RS 10.7 NP RS6 10.7 Deboichet 70 Deboichet 70 Deboichet 70

BRA3333 Paulo Dos Reis Starboard 161 Severne 11.6 Severne 11.0 Severne 10.0 Kashy 70 Deboichet 70 Deboichet 68

POL10 Wojtek Brzozowsk Starboard 161 NP RS 12.5 NP RS 10.7 Severne 9.0 Deboichet 70 Deboichet 70 Deboichet 70

FRA421 Julien Quentel Starboard 161 NP RS 11.8 NP RS 10.7 Deboichet 70 Deboichet 70 Deboichet 70

POL16 Michael Polanowski Starboard 160 NP RS 11.8 NP RS6 10.7 NP RS6 9.8 Deboichet 70 Deboichet 70 Deboichet 70

DEN111 Jesper Vesterstrom Starboard 161 NP RS 11.8 NP RS 10.7 NP RS 9.8 Kashy 70 Kashy 70 Kashy 67

BRA74 Fabio Melo Starboard 160 Gaastra 12.0 Gaastra 11.0 Gaastra 10.0 Kashy 70 Kashy 70 Kashy 67

BRA999 Wilhelm Schurmann Starboard 161 NP RS 11.8 NP RS 10.7 NP RS 9.8 Kashy 70 Kashy 70 Kashy 67

POL16 Michael Polanowski Starboard 160 NP RS 11.8 NP RS6 10.7 NP RS6 9.8 Deboichet 70 Deboichet 70 Deboichet 70

BRA2497 Victor Melo Starboard 161 Gaastra 12.0 Gaastra 11.0 Gaastra 10.0 Kashy 70 Kashy 70 Kashy 70

BRA50 Gabriel Browne F2 FX IV North 11.9 North 11.0 North 10.0 Kashy 70 Kashy 70 Kashy 68

POL25 Hubert Mokrzycki Starboard 160 Gaastra 12.0 Gaastra 11.0 Gaastra 10.0 Deboichet 70 Deboichet 70 Kashy 70

Remi
4th December 2007, 12:03 AM
Formula World results in light weight (under 75kgs)

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/2835/21um7.th.jpg (http://img503.imageshack.us/my.php?image=21um7.jpg)

BRA999 Wilhelm Schurmann Starboard 161 NP RS 11.8 NP RS 10.7 NP RS 9.8 Kashy 70 Kashy 70 Kashy 67

POR5 Miguel Martinho Starboard 161 NP RS 10.7 NP RS 9.8 NP RS 9.0 Deboichet 70

POL320 Lukas Konieczny Starboard 160 NP RS 10.7 NP RS 9.8 NP RS 8.4 Deboichet 70 Deboichet 70 Deboichet 70


POL1 Leszek Rutkowski Starboard 161 Maui TR3 11.0 NP RS 10.7 NP RS6 9.8 Deboichet 70 Deboichet 70 Deboichet 70

POR78 Bruno Bertolo Starboard 159 NP 10.7 NP 9.8 Deboichet 70 Deboichet 68

ESP16 Pablo Ania Starboard 161 Severne 11.0 Severne 10.0 Deboichet 70 Deboichet 70 Deboichet 68

BRA15 Elizeu Vieira Starboard 161 Severne 11.0 Severne 10.0 Kashy 70 Kashy 70 Kashy 70

FRA105 Aurelien Le Metayr Starboard 161 NP RS 10.7 NP RS 9.8 NP RS6 9.0 Deboichet 70 Deboichet 70 Deboichet 70

BRA771 Nelson Oliveira Starboard 160 NP RS 10.7 NP RS 9.8 Kashy 70 Kashy 70 Kashy 68

USA4 Steve Bodner Mikes Lab L7 North 11.9 North 11.0 North 10.0 Kashy 70 Kashy 70 Kashy 68


Etc http://www.formulawindsurfing.org/filez/results/071202_2/final_lightweight.pdf

Formula
9th January 2008, 10:32 PM
with no offence to Starboard.

i'm sticking with my old trusty 161 and not going to buy a 162.
some initial tests suggest there is only slight difference which probably F-192 a big guy may feel it.
Mortals like me won't feel a pinch at all.

interestingly, the new Vapor formula board is coined from 160 design.

i believe the Starboard guys will reply to my post on preaching about the new 162...
however, consumers will decide with their wise judgement.

example, Mauisails recent switch to wide-luff design is overdue and late.
back then, they were preaching hard on their own designs as a rock.

now, there's no Formula representation and worse still, their 2 top riders are leaving the brand (KP and Taty joining Sarah who left for NP).
i hope Starboard will not end up like them.

SeanAUS120
14th January 2008, 06:34 PM
Hey Formula,

Sorry to say but you might get left on the startline this season without a 162. We had our first big event in Australia over the weekend trying out all the new boards (Starboard, Gaastra, Exocet - still no F2's here yet).

I was very impressed with the speed of the new 162. In the hands of the top guys in the fleet there were definitely some major speed improvements from the events only a few weeks ago where we were all on 160/161's. Also there were considerable improvements in the middle-fleet guys.

I think a good guide to a board's overall improvement can be to look at the guys in the middle of the fleet (who 2 weeks ago using their 161's were still in the middle of the fleet) - now on the 162 were pushing the top 10 in all the races. No new sails. No new fins. Just new boards.

The shape is considerably different to the 161 you'll find. Its incredibly refined in the nose, slightly wider tail, appears to have more rocker although I never measured it. I think its a great step forward and will definitely be one of the fastest boards on the market for the 2 year period. The comments from one DreamTeam member at the event was basically that you are wasting your time riding anything else this season.

BTW, I'm not riding Starboard boards this season so I'm not just making this comment to be polite ;)

Unregistered
14th January 2008, 10:53 PM
Hey Formula,

Sorry to say but you might get left on the startline this season without a 162. We had our first big event in Australia over the weekend trying out all the new boards (Starboard, Gaastra, Exocet - still no F2's here yet).

I was very impressed with the speed of the new 162. In the hands of the top guys in the fleet there were definitely some major speed improvements from the events only a few weeks ago where we were all on 160/161's. Also there were considerable improvements in the middle-fleet guys.

I think a good guide to a board's overall improvement can be to look at the guys in the middle of the fleet (who 2 weeks ago using their 161's were still in the middle of the fleet) - now on the 162 were pushing the top 10 in all the races. No new sails. No new fins. Just new boards.

The shape is considerably different to the 161 you'll find. Its incredibly refined in the nose, slightly wider tail, appears to have more rocker although I never measured it. I think its a great step forward and will definitely be one of the fastest boards on the market for the 2 year period. The comments from one DreamTeam member at the event was basically that you are wasting your time riding anything else this season.

BTW, I'm not riding Starboard boards this season so I'm not just making this comment to be polite ;)


sean,

thank you for your correction and view on the new 162.
your comments and reviews are unbiased and honest.

i will check out the new 162.

good luck in Brisbane.

NathanH
15th January 2008, 03:36 AM
NSW State Championships 2008
Formula Board for State chamiopships
1st Jesper V Starboard 162
2nd Sam P Starboard 162 (2007 on 161)
3rd Sean Gaastra Vapour (2007 on 161, 159 and 160)
4th Brett Starboard 162 (2007 on 160)
5th Mike Starboard 162 (2007 on 159)
6th Sam F Starboard 159 (2007 no change)
7th Anthony Starboard 160 (2007 no change)
8th Murray F2 2005 (2007 no change)
9th Steve Starboard 160 (2007 no change)
10th Chris Starboard 162 (2007 on 161)


Half way through NSW Formula Series Oct 2007 to March 2008. Top 10
1st Sean
2nd Brett
3rd Mike
4th Rick Starboard 162 (2007 on 160 and 161)
5th Anthony
6th Steve
7th Murray
8th Sam F
9th Sam P
10th Chris

To the best of my knowledge these are what the top ten were riding in 2007 and now in 2008. Add any corrections.

Unregistered
15th January 2008, 05:59 AM
Sean

How was the peformance of the new Exocet, did you try it?

I have only seen one, not tried it yet, but it looked pretty fast as well

Brett Morris
15th January 2008, 08:04 AM
Last year I struggled with the 161 and reverted back to the 160. I am now on the 162 and loving it. I believe it is a very different feel/board from last year. Comfortable and easier to sail, which is all good if you spend allot of time on a FW board.
The Exocet looks amazing, and is very light. I would love to test it.

R&D
15th January 2008, 04:42 PM
The Exocet is indeed very light and looks amaizing, it's a big step up compared to the previous Exo Formula boards, very much plug & play, tracks upwind on its own and quite fast but I unfortunately can't compare with the top guys in the fleet as I am nowhere near their level.

It's on par with *board for sure.

Brett you can try the Black Beast whenever you want but at the Nationals.

Cheers,
Remi

Unregistered
16th January 2008, 07:49 PM
Hallo Sean,
have the 162 and Vapor board a "classic" Starboard feeling?
I mean,do they like sails that make them lift up (as usual) or can be sailed also with North-like sails?

Thank you

SeanAUS120
22nd January 2008, 05:52 PM
Hmmm, I'm not entirely sure what you mean by 'lift-up' in terms of the sail. Unfortunately, I might not have a chance to ever try a North Race Sail as they are simply not available in Australia and I'm not really good friends with any North sailors in Europe to get a test drive (I will try one day)...

Do you mean to lift the nose?? I certainly think the Vapor is tuned best by setting your gear up to keep the nose lifted (boom high/track back etc) so maybe you are saying that the North sails help with this? Hard to know without sailing them. Some of the recent fins I have tried that are similar to the Kashy's by being very soft are giving a lot of power underneath your feet on towards the back of the board which I feel keeps the nose down a lot more compared to a standard R13 (my usual fin), so I find I like the track back a little on the Vapor (and most likely would find that on the 162) with these powerful fins compared to an R13.


Certainly the Vapor has the classic starboard feeling. I've only ridden the 162 twice (briefly) now but I believe it has the "classic" feeling as you say. It feels somewhat stiffer under your feet than the 160/161 did, but so does the Vapor and I think that's a good feeling. By "stiffer", I mean that the board is a little more responsive to toe and heel pressure so you can really keep the trim nicely under control by being a little more conscious of what you do with your feet (getting on your tiptoes upwind etc). It doesn't "sponge" away upwind if you are underfinned like the earlier models tended to do if you are running 12m sails for example...

Would love to test the Exocet one day also... Remi, you're not here for the Oceanics ??? Thought you were coming up...

Unregistered
22nd January 2008, 07:43 PM
Sean,

How was the R20 and some of the other new fins that you were mentioning in comparision to the Kashy? I have not heard too much other than the little on your website in the Vapour write-up.

Britt

SeanAUS120
23rd January 2008, 05:08 PM
Hi Britt,

From what I am told the R20 is not going to be available until the beginning of the European season (March-April??). So I haven't actually sailed one, but I was writing based on the comments from Michal Polanowski (POL-16) about the fin as he used one at the Brazil Worlds.

Lots of things seem to be going on in the fin world these days. There are some nice Selects, Kashy's and even Hurricane fins being used by the top guys at the Oceanics. Somebody told me the Hurricane fins are only 150 euros? ... so I'm hoping to try one later in the week - wow, that's sooooo cheap if they are really that good.

Britt
24th January 2008, 08:24 PM
Thank you for your reply, especially seeing how you are quite busy with the organizing and racing.

When the dust settles, could you give a bit of what you saw in the fin world at the Oceanics?

Thanks,
Britt

SeanAUS120
28th January 2008, 09:10 AM
Hi Britt,

Here's the gear list for the event: http://www.fw-australia.com/2008/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/equipment-list-fw2008.pdf

...and for interest, we've put up the courses, prize list and a few extras you can find on the mainpage (www.fw-australia.com/2008/).

Lots of interesting things on the fins again, but at the same time it was still possible for guys to do well on the standard fins from 5 years ago.

Steve Allen used a Hurricane fin most of the week (which REALLY threw me, because it had a lot of torsional twist - generally speaking, most of the fins that are fast now are super soft in flex with rock-solid torsional stiffness to get the speed, this was the exact opposite, so I really don't know how it was working).

Jesper Vesterstrom used his usual Kashy's from this season. There were a number of NSW sailors using the new VMG Blades being developed in Sydney. They are pretty new on the scene and I'm not sure if there's plans for production of them at this point. However, I have tested a few in the last few months (only the F models, not the new K which everyone is using) and I was super impressed with them. They are again following the trend of the super soft fins with absolutely no twist which I think seems to be the way to go with fins these days but have a different looking foil which is really cool and seems to be very fast downwind.

I used a proto R16 70 S-- from Steve most of the week (payment for me lending him my new Vapor board). A little annoying that this fin was really sweet because I've tried R16's before and they DO NOT work in the Starboard boards so I wouldn't suggest anyone buying one for these boards, they work far better in the F2's. This proto is obviously so far different to anything a "mere human" can order from Deboichet (I'm really hoping with the new fins on the market this year, the "fin gap" will hopefully subside and everyone can finally have comparitive gear).

I used an R13 70 S from 5 years ago in a few races also (light and heavy winds). Such a great fin. Its still on par with the best and I recommend everyone to have a good R13 in their kitty if you are sailing a Starboard of any model.

Jesper Orth punished me all week on an even older R13 70 M, so they've still got the goods. I felt my R13 struggled a little on the lightwind day on friday compared to the other sailors on Kashy/Blades/Hurricanes etc, however it was fast downwind so I still liked it.

I actually felt all week I wasn't really the fastest around the course (even inside the top 7) because these Kashy/Blades/Hurricane softer fins appear to be better all-round fins than my R16/R13 which were a little specific in the breezes they were working. But this was a lot of fun as you really had to switch on and make sure your starts/laylines/tactics were perfect as there's still a lot of ground to be made up around the course through just "sailing" rather than your gear.

Its hard to know whether to tell people to buy new fins all the time as yes, they do make a big difference, but you really have to package it with your sailing ability and knowledge and there's so much speed to gained around the course with simply your starts. Believe it or not, as soon as Jesper Orth beat Steve Allen and Jesper Vesterstrom off the start in the first race he won by a streak. Once you are in front you have clean air the whole way... Jesper Orth probably wasn't as fast around the course as Steve/Jesper all week, just better at starting in that first race. He didn't spend any money on super fins compared to others...

Thanks for checking out the event.

Remi
28th January 2008, 09:52 AM
Hi SeanAUS120,

Nice report on this event.

Did you try until 15 knots the R19 soft -- rake + 8 cm, over the R13 medium or soft rake + 6cm depending of your style or water conditions?

The R13 haven't enough power in light wind.

All the best

SeanAUS120
28th January 2008, 10:31 AM
Hi Remi,

Yes, I have tried the R19 S-- rake 8cm in under 15. Normally I would like this fin, but I've found this year now sailing a 12m Gaastra (versus 10.7m NP as biggest last season) I have too much power so I like to go smaller on the fin and use R13 70 when its under 15 knots.

You are right, a lot of people will find the R13 not enough power in the light wind however I am finding I do have enough power with the way I setup my gear (each to their own I guess).

The results on my R19 depended on which R19 I tried however; my own one (one of the earliest available, purchased during 2006 FW Worlds in Korea) I found had great height upwind but didn't have the speed I wanted. Down wind it was great. I tested another R19 of Hubert (POL-25, can't remember how to spell his last name!) which really had great speed upwind and the same height which was nice, but I couldn't get my R19 to perform the same as this. So I gave up to use my R19, however there's still many people using it successfully, I think you just have to setup your gear for this fin specifically.

Btw, Jesper Vesterstrom raced a couple of races at an event in Australia a few weeks back and used the standard Drake fin (R19 shape) and smoked us. So I think the R19 foil is good, it must just depend on the layup you have in your R19 as to its performance.

Remi
28th January 2008, 08:47 PM
Hi SeanAUS120,

As you know Deboichet is always under devellopement, so the last one is even beter, but yes very important to trim your self with the R19 soft -- rake + 8 cm to have really great results.

All the best and have a great season

Britt
28th January 2008, 10:56 PM
Thanks Sean for your helpful attitude and thoughtful anwers.

Britt

Unregistered
4th March 2008, 10:45 PM
isn't it possible for companies (sb, np) register two different boards,sails for competition, and still upgrade every year? or nobody had that idea?

Unregistered
5th March 2008, 05:32 AM
I wont to get back into formula
I guess its best to buy a 160 or 162 or Vapor

not the

161

Unregistered
6th March 2008, 02:46 PM
I wont to get back into formula
I guess its best to buy a 160 or 162 or Vapor

not the

161


TAKE a 161 and TAKE AWAY that REALLY SLOW fin (R19)... you'll see 161 performances are not so far from 162 and 160 !!!

Unregistered
7th March 2008, 06:52 AM
F2 FX6...Gonzalo Costa Hoevel cleans up north american championships..one month earlier..Jimmy Diaz wind Miami Blue water against Micah Buzianis...