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AlexWind
3rd January 2008, 06:12 PM
A problem every non-professional windsurfer has to face with is the price of the equipment: we all want (dream..) to have the newer stuff 'cause we've been told they're faster, much easier to use, you won't miss a planning jibe, etc..
Obviously there's a lot of marketing in that enthusiastic statements but that's another point.. But afterall why not: we're like children with toys sometimes! :D

The point is: how much do you pay for a board? How much do they cost in your country? And what about used ones?

Taking SB (obviously :D) for instance, here the general prices are:

- 1499-1599 € official new wood model price
-1299 € new technora model price
-20% the average discount on new model (1250-1300 for a 1599 board)

- 800 - 850 € for a 1 year used model (isonic)
- 600 - 700 € for a 2 year used model
- 450 - 550 € for a 3 year used model

And so on..

Now..prices are not the same in every country!

Moving a little bit out I've seen (now) 1050€ for a brand new 08 board (wood) and 850 € for a tech one! Crazy indeed...

And since the US dollar is now at 1.46 $ per € I really don't belive that in US you have a 2350 $ for a new board! If so, nevermind..

Let me know how's the situation in your place, I'm really curious!

Randy
3rd January 2008, 07:53 PM
I'm surprised but the prices you quote are not out of line for the US either at least for new boards list prices. (There is probably some discounting, but I don't know how much. 10% seems possible, 20% seems too high.) The closeout type boards can have a pretty wide price range due more to local supply/demand but even there your numbers are plausible. Suprising given the weakness of the dollar and the strength of the euro. Perhaps its not the euro/dollar ratio that controls, but dollar to the Thai currency?

How about sails. In the US a new sail is usually in the $500-$700 ranges.

viking
4th January 2008, 12:55 AM
In Thailand, brand new boards 2008 are 45000 Baths for wood and 40000 Baths for technora (1 € = 49 Baths). Very cheap!
But, the decrease of price for an outdated model or a second hand one is much more less than in Europe ie a second hand board of 3 years age is at the same price than in Europe, a 2007 brand new board is just 10% cheaper than the 2008...

Philip
4th January 2008, 03:42 AM
In Australia an iSonic is around A$2500 give or take for a clean buy or less after 'trade in' etc. Comparatively it is about the same as a competitive mountain bike and about the same as a pair of top line snow skis plus foamed boots. Question is how have prices moved against average weekly earnings over time; I suspect that all of these sports have thankfully got cheaper in real terms while delivering better performance. Savings on 'last years' WS model are anywhere between $500 and $800 and for older new stock the price is about half. These are just my impressions and there would be many others better informed I am sure.

AlexWind
4th January 2008, 05:15 AM
Gosh in Thailand they're very cheap indeed! around 900 € for a new wood board!
But if you consider the board themself are made in Thailand you can say: well it could be..

But, as I said, the same situation (1000 € new wood board but more expensive used ones..) happens even a little outside my country so it must be a commercial choice for Starboard to sell their product cheaper in "less rich" countries..

The question is hich is the real product price? Our or in the near countries?
Do the brands earn more money here or are they so good to make discounts in poorer places? What do you think?

According the sales, the price here is a little lower than you said in # but if you consider the strenght of euro currency is higher for sure: 450-700 euros for a new sail in shops (official prices are higher, take a look of 2007 North Sails and Naish sails price lists

http://tecnico.tomasoni.com/files/listini/72_Listino_NorthSailW_2007pubb.pdf
http://tecnico.tomasoni.com/files/listini/56_Naish_WS_07_Pubbl.pdf

Hey man, a stealth 12.5 is 1000 €, 1460 $!!!!! That's far far too much!

carvesalot
4th January 2008, 07:06 AM
Hi, I can get a new 2008 Board for less than $1300 USD, with just a inquiry to the dealer than sells them in Canada, I'm in the USA.
The import cost to me for a 2008 Witchcraft Tri Fin semi custom ,developed in the Canaries, built and shipped from Bulgaria is 1254 EURO which is $1836 USD delivered within 20 miles of my house, on which according to US Customs, there would be NO, import duty/VAT only a small fee. I dont see how this comparies to the cost of same board in the UK for 1095 L, or $2158 USD for pickup in the store. A used 2007 used board in the USA can be purchased for $799.00, I have one advertised, still for sale. And could point out several more. US prices are considerably less than most of the world, we do however pay for other things ( health care as the first example that comes to mind) that many nations do not. Sails from 2007 are discounted up to --20%, quiver discounts higher.

Can Inelli
4th January 2008, 11:03 PM
in Turkey a brandnew isonic 2008 is 1200 euros

Unregistered
5th January 2008, 12:16 AM
in finland brand new isonic 1490,-

steveC
5th January 2008, 02:18 AM
It's quite interesting to learn more about the price of products in different spots around the world. However, I think that there are a few facets in the situation that might say more about the differences in pricing. A significant impact can undoubtedly be associated with the national/regional distributors. I'm sure that the type of warehousing operations and the detailed distribution network they run, to include the margins expected, could explain much. I would think that the distributor carries the cost of transportation from the manufacturer, and I'm sure certain taxes, duties or tariffs of some sort come into play too. Unless you're involved in the business and understand the pecularities that can be tied to various regional or national policies, it's difficult to clearly shape what's going on. However, from what I've gathered over time listening to different folks, it's my understanding that most European customers pay some very stiff importation rates, thereby making products considerably more expensive in contrast to what I find here in the US.

Another thing I think merits consideration is how the retailers have structured their operation. Needless to say, there is has to be huge differences when contrasting national mail order/internet operations with smaller local or regional retailers. Sales volume usually has everything to do with the price structure that retailer pays for products from the distributors. I've found over time that small retail operations have shrunk tremendously from the scene, very likely because they find it increasingly difficult to compete with larger mail order/internet firms. Also, the way the market has been maturing, I think it's safe to say that things today are based more and more on hard orders, as it better controls manufacturing rates and streamlines inventories, thereby lessening the need for discounting and loss of margin.

I'm sure that there's much more to consider, but I'm convinced that what's going on between the distributors and retailers says quite a bit about price differences around the world.

viking
5th January 2008, 02:21 AM
AlexWind> where is the country where you have the wood at 1000 Euros? In Europe?

In Thailand, it is very cheap in the absolute, but if you consider that there is no custom/transportation/importer commission... I guess a surfshop in Thailand is doing more money with one board than in Europe. In another hand, the market is so little there that the shop needs to make its money with a few units sold...

AlexWind
5th January 2008, 03:40 AM
Topic is growing fast..good!!!

It's interesting to know the price differences and though there are several con-causes it's bad to know here in Europe we pay sensibily more for the same product than in the rest of the world..

Maybe import taxation.. who knows..

geo
9th January 2008, 02:10 AM
Gosh in Thailand they're very cheap indeed! around 900 € for a new wood board!
But if you consider the board themself are made in Thailand you can say: well it could be..

Well if you check their site a Carbon Art slalom board is a mere 1.010 EUR in NZ...

I think that transport costs do mean a lot on such large fragile items. Also national distributors probably do add a lot. In '06 I asked KA sail to quote me a two Koncept quiver and they made me a nice price (delivered to my door, including shipping and taxes). I didn't decide immediately. After some time they agreed with Speeding for distribution in Italy, so when I asked them to confirm prices they told me to refer to Speeding instead. I expected to have a better deal, thanks to more efficient shipping (a lot of sails in a container, instead of just my two sails by plane)... but discounted price from importer were higher instead. This by the way convinced me that selling on the web and shipping to the customer is the way to go. And this also proves that importers do not add efficiency to the market (did they stock at least!)

Del Carpenter
9th January 2008, 11:44 AM
I think the fall in the US dollar is not yet reflected in the prices. I think the individual stores, distributors and the manufacturers establish their contracts months before the equipment gets in the stores. If the dollar value stays down all of us in USA may wish we had purchased a new board early in 2008.

AlexWind
9th January 2008, 05:45 PM
Hi geo, (ti scrivo in inglese così è per tutti! :D), I don't belive it's a matter of shipping..
I mean, excluding Thailand, the shipping charge to Europe or USA or Canada wouldn't be much different but the retail prices are!

And second, try to ask prices just outside our country: you could get a boad for -300€ from our discount price and that's not due to transport at all!

geo
9th January 2008, 11:18 PM
Ciao Alex,

you are right; after all express shipping is just EUR 180 on a single board from NZ (CA: 1,010.00 there and 1,190.00 shipped to airport here). So we are left with the other suspect: maybe importers do earn too much? My experience dealing with KA Sails says "yes".

Klint
11th January 2008, 06:55 PM
Brand new 2008 Wood iSonic in Sweden costs € 1.360 or $ 1.920 or £ 1.000.

pierrec45
12th January 2008, 09:50 PM
> problem every non-professional windsurfer...
> we all want (dream..) to have the newer stuff 'cause we've been told
> they're fastermuch easier to use, you won't miss a planning jibe, etc..

> Obviously there's a lot of marketing in that enthusiastic statements
> but that's another point.. But afterall why not: we're like children with
> toys sometimes!

Sorry, but you do bring it up... :)

Your introduction is as important as the topic itself: there's not a lot of marketing, it's ALL marketing hype. You know, the "200x board reviews" in magazines, "go a lot faster if you buy the new ...", etc.

I'm sure it makes a diff for pros for which we see the pics at the top of this (manufacturer) forum, but for the other 99.9% that sail on lakes and shores?? No it doesn't.

Furthermore, I don't want a board or pay for that is faster for them in races or speed world records, but on which I personally may or may not go .1 knot faster, for the very specific conditions for that very particular brand new gear. Next thing you know, one needs to buy a trailer to carry all that gear.

And I don't want yet a new sail or board that will make my jibes easier. (Knowing too that the year after will be a brand new gear that will make my jibes yet easier.) I've seen plenty of videos of pros that can jibe very well thank you with 2005 and 2002 and 2006 gear. Therefore it must be possible - after all, they make it look easy, and I want to work at it on my gear that is only 2-3 years old and improve at it. I've seen little improvment in the sail skills of those who renew the "quiver" year after year.

Sorry for the rant - again - and I know it's not the gist of this topic. But we're trying to promote our wonderful sport and fun sailing, as opposed to gear buying. That's me.

Cheers all and happy 2008.

PS: back to the thread, all brand new gear is expensive in them's parts, period. :(

honk
19th January 2008, 10:54 PM
In Singapore - 2008 iSonic USD 1550 /-

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Tosser
21st January 2008, 07:53 PM
Buy in South Africa :

New Starboards and Other boards between 800 & 900 euro