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View Full Version : which wave board ?


Juju
20th February 2008, 01:55 AM
Hi all,

I am looking for a wave board to cover a wide range of waveriding conditions.

I am currently using an old classic 72L wave board (a side shore wave board which is about 9 years old !). As I am not student anymore, I can afford a new wave board ;-) !
I am 68 kg and I use 3.7 / 4.5 / 5.3 sail sizes.
I sail sideshore to sideonshore conditions, usually with strong winds and small waves. But I sometimes travel to places with big and fast waves which require down the line waveriding.

I am interested in the Acid 74L and the Evo 70L... and have a lot of questions !

- what about the behaviour of the Evo 70L with high wind conditions ? Would the width of the Evo be a drawback for high wind conditions with chop ? and for fast and big waves (big means from head high to overhead for me :-) ) ?

- on the other hand, what about the Acid 74L with low winds (5.3m2) and small waves ? Is it easy to keep speed in slow waves with the Acid as compared with the Evo ?

- which board is the best for jumping (front and back loops) ?

- for occasional flat water conditions, which board would be the most suitable to have fun doing some freestyle tricks ?

Thank you very much

Julien

Ola_H
21st February 2008, 03:09 PM
Hi Julien

The easy answer (and the true one) is that both EVO 70 and Pure Acid 74 will handle everything you describe beautifully.

But there are difference of course. An EVO will make it easier to hit the lip in slower waves and in side-onshore winds. Conversely, the PA 74 will feel more secure in down the line big wave conditions. But with the right techique, the EVO 70 will make really fast bottom turns and work very well in big waves. And the PA74 will turn quick and work well in slower conditions when you know how to work it.

I think both bords are kind of equal when it comes to jumping and freestyle. The PA is a nicer blasting board, but ince we're talking a wave board here, if blasting is not a major issue, I wouldn't choose boards judged on that. In high wind, I also think the b oards are kind of equal. The PA has more straightline stability and more control in that way. But the EVO is more damped and take hits better. Its a bit of a style issue what board that for a particular sailor will feel the most controllable. In 4.0 or 3.5 sailing, I personally prefer the E70, but others might think the PA74 is better.

So, in the end I think there are two ways thinking about this choice.

1. Choose by which board that will help you the most. If you rip big time in onshore and slow waves but have troubles holding a line in big wave, choose Acid. If you have an easy time in bigger waves but don't get the "flair" you want in on the more normal days, choose the EVO.

2. Choose by style. If you feel you don't have any specific areas where you need "extra help" you can choose more by how you like to wave ride. Both boards can pretty much be ridden any style, but "naturally" the EVO 70 has a more vertical style, wanting to come in under the lip etc. The Acid has a more fast carving style, prefering to go for a more drawn out bottom turn and follow up with a fast carving top turn. For example, I like to mix it upp with different kind of turns in my riding, but "at heart" I prefer when I can go vert. That is probably why I like my EVO 70 over all other boards, both for small slow waves at home in Sweden and for the cleaner bigger stuff on Maui where I am now (with my E70...)

I hope this helps. Otherwise, just ask again.

Ray Timm
22nd February 2008, 12:04 AM
I have both boards and agree with Ola's assessment of their merits. I'm quite a bit heavier at 85 kg and also prefer the E70 over the PA74 when the wind really picks up and the water gets rough. The E70 handles the big gusts by flowing with them never getting squirrelly.

Juju
22nd February 2008, 02:19 AM
Thank you very much Ola for your response. That makes things clearer to me.
Ray, do you use the E70 or PA74 for light wind conditions ?

Ray Timm
22nd February 2008, 11:15 PM
I tend to sail smaller boards than most people my size so I end up using both boards when most people would be on a the next size bigger. I find either board can carry my 5.3 Legend even though the E70 is rated for a maximum of a 5.0. Actually I think my the 70 planes up quicker than the 74, but this may be due to lots more time for me on the E70. I would guess that I start sailing either board when the wind is 18-20 knots.

Screamer
24th February 2008, 10:07 AM
Hey Ray
I expect a delivery of Acid74 any day now, and would like to hear your opinion on the other end of the range: I intend to use it mostly with sails 4.0-4.5, maybe 3.5 on mental days. No waveriding, but howling winds and lots of swell & psycho chop. I'm 85-88kg.

Thanks

Ray Timm
24th February 2008, 03:12 PM
I've sailed the 74 a couple of times with a 4.2 in extremely overpowered conditions in just the conditions you've described. It works , but you have to pay attention because the board is so reactive to one's input and extremely fast. And it has more of a locked in feeling than the E70. Since I'm an Evo convert from the beginning and much more used to sailing the E70 in overpowered conditions, I would always pick it when I'm on 4.2 or smaller. Last Thursday I used both boards for the entire day switching between them to see how they reacted in extremely windy conditions varying between 28-38 knots. The PA74 has the more exciting ride and has a razor like feel in the gybes and accelerates with each gust. The more I sailed it the better it got or maybe the better I sailed it, but for me when the wind was the strongest my E70 handled the sail and conditions better. It seems to flow with the gusts.

davide
27th February 2008, 02:55 PM
Hey Ray
I expect a delivery of Acid74 any day now, and would like to hear your opinion on the other end of the range: I intend to use it mostly with sails 4.0-4.5, maybe 3.5 on mental days. No waveriding, but howling winds and lots of swell & psycho chop. I'm 85-88kg.

Thanks
I am 68Kg and the Acid 74 sails big for me. It is "big": 54.5 with a large tail and a volume that seems underestimated by a good few liters judging by its floatation. I was not comfortable at all in sub 4.2 conditions, nor I found it particularly good in heavy chop, it has a "big nose" that tend to catch on irregular/vertical chop. I ended up buying an Angulo Chango 65 (51 wide, 32 tail, nice!) that works much better in "psycho conditions". I am keeping the Acid 74 for moderate high-wind conditions 4.5-5.5 where I think it belongs for an expert level sailor (hei! a pro can sail anything anywhere). At your weight (almost 20Kg more) it should work better, but in my opinion it is just too big for being am almost-nuke-day board.

Ola_H
28th February 2008, 03:22 AM
Screamer,

At your weight, the PA74 will be a great high wind blaster. Of course, an even smaller board might be even better for when you're truly overpowered with a 3.5, but as you know, these wind strengths often come in gusty flavor, so to little volume is not so often the best way overall. I'm rather sure the PA74 will work great for you. Its a fast board. The more you lock in and let it fly, the better it will go.

Screamer
28th February 2008, 07:20 PM
Thanks for your thoughts guys
Davide, I remember we discussed this before, and that PA74 wasn't small enough for you. There are a few factors I believe will make it a good board for me:
1. Riding my Kombat86 (59 wide, 39 tail) with a 4.0 in stupid conditions isn't very fun. I guess it will be a good step down.
2. For a lard arse ;-) it should be small enough.
3. Fresh water (a river) and gusty wind.

Fair winds

Edit: I've found an interesting discussion on the similar subject:
http://www.gaastra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=395

davide
28th February 2008, 10:03 PM
Thanks for your thoughts guys
Davide, I remember we discussed this before, and that PA74 wasn't small enough for you. There are a few factors I believe will make it a good board for me:
1. Riding my Kombat86 (59 wide, 39 tail) with a 4.0 in stupid conditions isn't very fun. I guess it will be a good step down.
2. For a lard arse ;-) it should be small enough.
3. Fresh water (a river) and gusty wind.

Fair winds

Edit: I've found an interesting discussion on the similar subject:
http://www.gaastra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=395
Ops, I think I was replying mostly to Juju who is 68Kg. He is wandering about high-wind performance in chop and I would go for sure with something not so much smaller, but with a less wide outline.

For you I agree ;) 20Kg of lard do add a lot of control!!! (and you'll need the floatation) still ... maybe something with same volume but thinner is worth considering (for example http://www.windance.com/default.asp?windance~shownewitem~R-Chango75 $499).

Screamer
29th February 2008, 01:38 AM
I see you like Changos a lot ;-) I'm sure they're great, and killer graphics!
I've already ordered an Acid a while ago, expecting a delivery.

davide
29th February 2008, 05:00 AM
I see you like Changos a lot ;-) I'm sure they're great, and killer graphics!
I've already ordered an Acid a while ago, expecting a delivery.
sounded a little insistent, didn't I? I am sure you'll love the A74

Jean-Marc
29th February 2008, 05:35 AM
Screamer,

PA74 2008 has been voted best board tested by the french Wind magazine in winds from 20 up to 60 knots and sail size 3.7 up to 5.3 m2.

Check this out as well : http://www.star-board.com/2008/pages/news/testresults.php?readmore=293

Go for it for what you want to do with that fast & radical beast...

Cheers!

JM

davide
29th February 2008, 08:15 AM
Screamer,

PA74 2008 has been voted best board tested by the french Wind magazine in winds from 20 up to 60 knots and sail size 3.7 up to 5.3 m2.

Check this out as well : http://www.star-board.com/2008/pages/news/testresults.php?readmore=293

Go for it for what you want to do with that fast & radical beast...

Cheers!

JM
hum ... just to chat: few (with the exception of a few desperados in the Gorge) go out in 60 knots (dears: that is Force 11 Beufort, more then 110 Km/h). And you'd die if you go out with a 3.7 and 54-55 wide 70-80 liters board!!!!! 20-60 is just plain silly: go above just 30-35 and you'd love something ... smaller! They must be smoking something good in France (Moroccan hash used to be good).

bigfish
5th March 2008, 03:22 AM
hum ... just to chat: few (with the exception of a few desperados in the Gorge) go out in 60 knots (dears: that is Force 11 Beufort, more then 110 Km/h). And you'd die if you go out with a 3.7 and 54-55 wide 70-80 liters board!!!!! 20-60 is just plain silly: go above just 30-35 and you'd love something ... smaller! They must be smoking something good in France (Moroccan hash used to be good).

Recently here in Scotland we have been getting one or more 50Kt+ days each week.

I'm heavier (95kg) than most of you. I have the acid 74 (and 86) and the 74 is nice and quick with a 4.5 and 5.0 in 27 - 35kts but its almost too quick once the wind goes 40kts+ I get a better ride from a Proof 81 even in the 60kts we had last friday. Size isn't everything the proof has loads more rocker and V in the tail so while being a bit more dull for every day riding it comes into its own once the wind goes mental.

utthita
7th March 2008, 09:08 PM
At 78 kg, have had some comfort with the '06 Evo '74 in high wind, even overpowered with a flat 4.2 sail in Cape Town, on fast waves rarely over 3 meters. At some point my '06 Evo '83 gets too big and I switch over. Having two boards is a WONDERFUL way to sail more while rigging less!

Can you describe how one compensates for the following, all sideoff, left or right:

Turning the Acid sharply in small waves--e.g., banking the board more and more quickly?

Turning the Evo down the line in big fast waves with lots of wind.

Handling in outrageously high wind on a big fast wave--on my weak side, I force myself to initiate early pointed somewhat upwind and begin the carve facing a bit away from the wave. As the rig, board (and me) bank over, the sail power moderates and I can stay sheeted in (even when jibing gets near impossible on the outside) and the board rocker brings me around. For some reason, once in motion, sail control gets reasonable. Once one learns to trust that board speed in the turn will keep you from being pulled over and down, it is heaven. Otherwise the board takes off down the wave so fast, that it almost leaves the water, and the wave, behind.

Finally, why is it so difficult for shapers to make a light wind wave board for sideoff that brings me around more quickly? Right now, the solution is to use only a small board, or, give up radical turning.

(No need to do all of this, as it may be a bit much to address, sorry)

Ola_H
8th March 2008, 03:37 PM
Can you describe how one compensates for the following, all sideoff, left or right:

Turning the Acid sharply in small waves--e.g., banking the board more and more quickly?

Acids are fast rockered but have comparatively curvy outlines so you have two options. Of its slow riding speeds, you can let the board pivot on the outline. The trick is then to have kind of a high level of finesse to not stall the board. Work in from forward to the rear when carving. Think surfing. Let the front leg kind of pivot the board up the wave to go vertical. this works best with not to much sail power on.

The second option if for more powered up conditions, ie when you go faster. Then the trick (for me at least) is to enter with a lot of front rail and pretty much power the board through the turn while gradually moving for more back foot pressure.

Hmm, when I write this down I se that the key thing on both cases are similar. You need to enter with some front rail commitment and then work with the rig handling and front foot to kind of pivot the board up the wave. Moving the rear hand backwards on the boom will help.


Turning the Evo down the line in big fast waves with lots of wind.

Handling in outrageously high wind on a big fast wave--on my weak side, I force myself to initiate early pointed somewhat upwind and begin the carve facing a bit away from the wave. As the rig, board (and me) bank over, the sail power moderates and I can stay sheeted in (even when jibing gets near impossible on the outside) and the board rocker brings me around. For some reason, once in motion, sail control gets reasonable. Once one learns to trust that board speed in the turn will keep you from being pulled over and down, it is heaven. Otherwise the board takes off down the wave so fast, that it almost leaves the water, and the wave, behind.


A good description of sound EVO high wind sailing technique


Finally, why is it so difficult for shapers to make a light wind wave board for sideoff that brings me around more quickly? Right now, the solution is to use only a small board, or, give up radical turning.


Do you mean "bring around" like in going vertical up the face? If so I think the EVOs, particularly the 80 does a great job (its a bit looser than the 83 you have). If it is not SUPER light and very big I prefer the EVO 70 (I'm 70 kilos). Ideally, you could maybe imagne an 80 with a slightly narrower tail and E70 rocker, but from my experience, when you widen a board and keep a curvy rocker, it can get a bit sticky so in the end the compromise that we have on the 80 is probably a good thing. The bottom on the 07 and 08
have a v flow that makes it looser in the tail and it also have very thin rails to give it some extra bite.

utthita
11th March 2008, 01:58 PM
Thank you for this insight. Carve AND pivot.

davide
14th March 2008, 02:06 AM
Size isn't everything the proof has loads more rocker and V in the tail so while being a bit more dull for every day riding it comes into its own once the wind goes mental.
Well, of course it goes without saying. At my weight the absolutely best high-wind board I owned was a tiny Blair Wave that was both tiny AND with a lot of rocker. The little beast could handle almost anything with no problems (the limit was I, not the board!). All I am saying is actually rather obvious: to claim that the Acid 74. that is BOTH large AND with volume AND with a relatively fast rocker, is an allaround board for a lightweight in B&J 30+ Knots conditions is just ... I don't know ... a bit of advertising?

and again ... there is a big difference between 50 and 60Knots of wind, for a lightweight to go out in 50 is a major, major ordeal. I am not so sure but I would like to count how many light weights (or otherwise) on the planet can go out in real open ocean 60 Knots and come back!