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darko
11th March 2008, 12:15 AM
I have SB HS 133 Dram and tushingham lightning 7.8.
I am buying sail for marginal condition but not sure witch sail fit best:
Lightning 9.4, Gaastra GTX 9.8 or Lightning 10.3.
I want early planning but afraid to exceed sail range.
I am 100kg and have 46cm racing fin (except two drakes).

Ken
11th March 2008, 01:16 AM
Darko,

I have a friend with an HS 133 wood and he uses a 10.0 quite often, but I don't know the sail brand. He is about 90 kg and sails quite fast with the 10.0 in 11+ knots. I have seen him duck jibe the the 10.

I don't think you will have a problem with any of the sails you mention.

Maximus
11th March 2008, 06:05 AM
I'm 85kg and use a Hyper111 with 8.4 RS racing and 55cm Select RS7 & 45cm RS7. I go in approx 10 knots. Its an excellent combo in light winds, and once planing the hyper scoots through the lulls leaving flat bottom boards behind. I have been sailing these boards for 3-4 years now. My advise is to go and get a good 55cm fin 1st off.

As for sail size, since you have a 7.8, go for a big race/free race slalom sail. The size I would estimate would be the 9.8 GTX. The 10.3 would work as well, but may limit your range (I use Np sail so cant really comment on how those brands go). Put downhaul on max, get adjustable outhaul and bag out for power. Hyper loves a fast sail. This should get you going in about 10 knots. To aim for going in less wind requires the formula stuff.

Jean-Marc
11th March 2008, 06:24 PM
Darko,

Kind of agree with Maximus above. The GTX 9.8 looks like a better sail for your weight because it might be more stable under heavy load : 3 cambers, 8 battens and a stiff IMCS 34 mast compared to 2 cambers/7 battens/IMCS 33 for the Lightning 10.3. Also agree a larger fin in the 50-52 cm size for a 9.8 sail or 52-55 for a 10.3 sail will help a lot for the lower range. BTW, old posts from Ian recommended a 48 cm fin with a 9.5 sail on HS as maximum size.

As for the light wind range for a 100 kg rider on HS133, I can't comment in detail. However, just to give you an idea, a 105 kg friend is using a Carve 162 with a North freerace 9.5 sail and he can start planing as of 12 knots of wind. For stuff lighter than that, he's using a Formula + 70 cm fin + Code Red 11.0 m2 sail combo with maximum efficiency in light wind.

Cheers !

JM

Screamer
13th March 2008, 01:30 AM
Darko
You've got good advice above, I'd like to add one thing: many people wanted to use hyper as a lightwind super early planer, which it is not. Don't get me wrong, I liked it quite a lot, but for heavyweights, loaded with 10m sails, it just can't compare to Freeformula/Formula.

darko
13th March 2008, 04:03 AM
First thank you all not only for those opinions, but also from your writing on older SB forums.

At the end I decide to go on 9.4 Tushingham Lighting with my 34 IMCS mast and racing 46cm fin.

It looks that is harder to get HS planning then to keep it going.
Correct me if I am wrong but pumping with 9.4 2 cam 7 battens should be easier than with 9.8/3/8. Also, thinking that it can work with my fin. At the end if I decide to change board this Q will fit some 10L smaller slalom board.

About GTX, I try it and love it, but shouldn’t be better to change my smaller sail for one of those?

Please tell me if I am on a wrong way.

Thx again,
Darko

Screamer
13th March 2008, 05:08 AM
You are right about this:
1. Yes, hyper is not the easiest board to get lit, but once there nothing will stop it. Through ridiculous lulls it's second to none (better than newer slaloms imho).
2. I think that twin cams such as Lightning have a better low end than 3- or more cams sails. I haven't tried the GTX, but I have compared Lightning and North Daytona. In this size you're considering, a twin cam is probably a better choice, with the minor penalty at the top end.

As for changing the board for "10 litres smaller slalom" you should double check that. It depends on a lot of things, and you should also consider width and try the board if possible. Because you weigh 100kg, I think you should look for 80-85cm wide slalom (don't overload it to the max of the quoted sail range).

Maximus
13th March 2008, 11:41 AM
Hey Darko

The 9.4 should be fine, infact even with the right gear, light wind sailing comes down to a good technique. I would still suggest getting a bigger fin to make the most out of this power combo. Sailing in 8-12 knots, I have seen a definate average speed increase by going from a 48cn to a 55cm. Infact the best 2 sec peak on my 55cm select is 29.5 knots and the 45cm is 30.7 knots using a RSR 8.4/H111. Give your weight and the larger sail size 55cm will be on the money for light winds. The 46cm will be perfect for slightly stringer and more consistant winds.

Your 7.8 will go nicely with the 46cm in under to moderatey powered conditions, and the 42cm be great in powered 7.8 weather. If you find there is too much backfoot pressure, just change down in fin size. Infact the 34cm will also work with your 7.8 in approx 20knots.

I run my Hyper with 6.7/34cm drake all the time, and 5.8/31cm, just to give you and idea.

As far as changing sails go, I like to sail with the same brand and model, in various sizes, to keep the feel consistant. It also makes your mast selection more flexible.

If you went for an Isonic It would be at least I133. However this will drop off the plane a lot quicker than the hyper.

Jean-Marc
18th March 2008, 05:13 PM
It looks that is harder to get HS planning then to keep it going.

Correct, but only when underpowered/lower wind range as compared to flat-bottomed trad hulls. If well- to over-powered, there is no difference IMHO.

The trick to start planing HS in the low wind range or underpowered is to get a good pumping technique together with a good footwork coordination. If too much heel pressure or wrong foot placement occurs while pumping the sail, the board will head upwind immediately, as shown twice in the first 9 seconds of this movie : http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=pbsdR59Ogcs.

Once fully lit, almost nothing will stop her in lulls, as evidenced in the last part of that movie.

Compared to iS122/133, HS105 has a much better upwind angle and better planing through lulls abilities, has more wind range with a large sail & fin quiver, is more comfy in chop, more technical to get on planing and to keep speed on jibe exit, and is more skills demanding overall (lower accessibility).

As for GTX vs Lightning, I can't comment as I never tested these sails. However, I better like the stability of a 4-5 multi-cambered sails as compared to a 0-2 cambered sail, especially in gusty wind, even with my 65 kg light weight. So for a 100 kg rider, I can figure out this is gonna be much more critical.

Cheers !

JM

Philip
20th March 2008, 04:32 AM
Yes I agree with Maximus re fin sizings. Spot on. At 70kg I am on the 34cm Drake fin for a 7.8 at the top end of its range. The smaller fin gybes better without the tram-lining tendency of the 42cm in stronger conditions - which is probably a reflection on my skill level (the issue raised by JM). A bit off topic (which was about larger sails for marginal conditions) HS is a great board but I think for 5.8m or even top end 6.5m weather a smaller profile modern board is the go. The iS86 is a popular choice although with a smaller sail range - but using multi camber race sails might claw back some of that lighter wind range?

Jean-Marc
20th March 2008, 08:13 AM
Philip,

Gotta agree HS jibes better with smaller fins, but, providing you have enough speed and power in the sail to keep momentum while exiting the jibe full speed. When underpowered, it's best to have a larger fin, not only to start planing early but to keep speed and power during the complete jibe turn as well : too small a fin at low speed makes the board spin out during the jibe.
The tricky part is to select the correct fin size for your sail according to your weight and wind range. Smaller than usual fins with big sails can work great with 65-70 kg light weight riders, but with 100 kg rider, I guess larger fins are required. Two examples below:

i) I'm (65 kg) using on HS105 either a 32 cm fin under- to well-powered or a 26 cm fin overpowered with a NP 6.6 racing sail in the 15-20 knots wind range.
ii) Roger van Thongeren (±100 kg) was also using a 26 cm fin as well on HS111 with a NP 6.7 racing sail, but only for speed sailing on flat water at ±40 knots Vmax in 30-35 knots wind range. For general use, he was using a much larger fin.

As for lighter wind range with multi-cambered racing sails, again, tuning is key : a bit more deep draft while easing on the downhaul and outhaul helps a lot to get more grunt and power in the low wind range. Try experimenting triming your racing sails with slight variation value, each one at a time, you'll be surprised.

Cheers !

JM

Philip
21st March 2008, 05:50 AM
JM,

Good tips! Plenty for the HS pilot to work on. For straight line speed the smaller fin sizes certainly deliver a smooth fast ride. However, refecting on yesterday's sailing in conditions gusting to 18kts the tendency was to wash-out the gybes. So I am going play around with larger fin sizes and the set of the sail to keep things powering along.