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pfaffi
14th April 2008, 07:04 PM
Hi Remi!
We are not to much happy with the trim of the F162. At the recommended masttrack position he board is sticky and did not accelerate in gusts and keeps the load all time at the font leg. In the free forum people solved that issue by going back with the masttrack moreless all the way. Thats causing new issues. Seems the board is designed for +100kg? I am 92kg/184cm. Thanks for reply! peter

Remi
17th April 2008, 08:43 PM
Hi pfaffi,

The board was test with riders of 85kgs and 75 kgs. But this board is more sensitive to fins. The best one we found until now are the R19, R20 and R17 from light wind to strong wind.

All the best

G
18th April 2008, 05:41 AM
hallo Remi,
what can you say about mast base position?Where's the best starting point?Is it affected by fin model?

I own both r19 and r17 but it seems that the r20 is not on the market yet because too fragile.Is it true?

thank you

Remi
19th April 2008, 12:29 AM
Hi G,

I still have my R20 since january and have no problems with.
I play with the recommand position and more in the back depending of size sails and water conditions.

All the best

Remi
19th April 2008, 10:37 PM
Hi G,

Their is no R20 on the market right now, so rumors make absolute no sense. The first delivry will be in next 7 days. Before to put in production a fin the R&D need to test everyting before and now is done.

All the best

G
20th April 2008, 01:56 AM
Hey Remi,
the rumors I talk about come from a good provenance,Can't say more but if now all is ok that's cool.
Today sailed first time 162 with r17.
The board rocks....
More feedback later.

pfaffi
20th April 2008, 01:00 PM
Will have first Formula competition on Lake Garda on long weekend of 1st May (Formula Super Cup and Trentino Cup). After first test trials I will use my F161 instead of my new F162. I will report about impressions of the F162 from other competitors and results. pfaffi

G
20th April 2008, 01:50 PM
Hey Pfaffi,
I'll be there with all my new stuff!!
Yesterday I tested first time the board but my first goal was try to right trim the new sail instead the board.It appeared easy as usual and same opinion had other people.Just push hard!

pfaffi
21st April 2008, 11:13 AM
Hi G! I will be in Torbole Wednesday, April 30th, app. 13:00 Camping Europa and start training. Lets meet on the water, AUT-84

Hank
24th April 2008, 02:35 AM
Hi G,

Their is no R20 on the market right now, so rumors make absolute no sense. The first delivry will be in next 7 days. Before to put in production a fin the R&D need to test everyting before and now is done.

All the best


Remi, read somehwere the below info about the production version of the R20:


"Consider that the stiffness is 1 / recommended rake +6 cm"


Can you help explaining, cause your recommendations here on the SB site is a bit different (rake +7 but no stiffness mentioned).

Also please consider that the recommendation is for the R20 to be used on the 161 and 162 boards.

Thanks

Hank
28th April 2008, 03:55 AM
No Remi or anyone else who has any info on this ?

pfaffi
28th April 2008, 01:33 PM
Next weekend (May 1st-4th) will be first big Formula competition, Formula Super Cup, on Lake Garda/Italy. I expect more than 50 starters. I am sure there will be used all new fins and boards. Find my report asap.
Cheers peter

Remi
2nd May 2008, 07:24 PM
Hi Hank,

I am in the Defi Wind right now with an extremely low connection, but since my last recomendation we continue to progress and the R20 rake + 6cm seems to be the best one and the R17 soft rake + 6cm.

Their is only on stifness for the R20.

All the best

Hank
4th May 2008, 05:18 AM
Hi Remi.

Thanks for clarifying, good luck at the race, hope it turns out well for you.

Dave K
5th May 2008, 05:17 PM
Next weekend (May 1st-4th) will be first big Formula competition, Formula Super Cup, on Lake Garda/Italy. I expect more than 50 starters. I am sure there will be used all new fins and boards. Find my report asap.
Cheers peter

Please report

G
5th May 2008, 06:11 PM
ok Dave,
I put my report but,please,drop my name into your (long) waiting list for one of your famous weapon!

3 days comp.

1 -wind came,as usual,in early afternoon but we were a bit slow to get ready for starting and while second (opss,don't remember if first or second!) upwind the race director decided to cancel that leg.

2 -weather was much more better and with sun came a steady wind too.The most part of the fleet was in 11,0 as the wind was 16-23 knt. 2+2 0,8 miles legs .
Beverino took the first 2 bullets.He had a nice lead followed by Begalli and Fauster who took the other 2 bulet of the day.So in the end of the day first Beverino,second Fauster and third Begalli.Please don't ask me more because I was a step behind of the top 8 to right follow the whole race and too committed for not giving up in my personal battles!

3 -still very nice weather and good wind.Once again the king size was 11,0. Today the favourite side for starting was on port.Everything went smooth (just some loud crossing...).There was so much people hanging around with their 5/6 mq sails in the middle of our downwind that was really thrilling make it right! Do I have speaking about the ships??
Anyway.Still 3 full bullets from Beverino who showed a higher speed over the course while Begalli took 3 second and won the last leg and,in the and,overtook Fauster for final seond place.

1 Beverino Gaastra-Gaastra
2 Begalli Starboard-Severne
3 Fauster F2-North
4 Reucher Starboard-Challenger
5 Marchegger Gaastra-Gaastra

Just say say sorry for all the others I haven't reported but,as said,not able to follow every aspect of the race.

Great fun,as usual,in and out of the water.Organization was fantastic.Truly appreciated the 2 dinners offered by Circolo Vela Arco who cooperated with Circolo Surf Torbole for the big success of the event.

fin66
15th May 2008, 12:54 AM
Have had problems with 162 to go upwind, can't get angle.
Used to be on 161 and warp2007
Now on 162 and Neilpryde

What to do, I've tried R17, R13, Hurricane 4a. Mast track recommended to -2cm.
10.7 RRS overtensioned and undertensioned.

Nothing seems to work...

Help !!!, one week to first competition.

176cm / 82kg

G
15th May 2008, 02:53 AM
I can keep at least the same angle upwind than 161 (last season had same stuff than you) but I'm surely faster downwind.T
If I have to sign some weak point is that my back leg burns a bit (like 159 time!) while downwind.

Remi
15th May 2008, 10:36 AM
Hi Fin66,

You must try the R20 rake + 6cm, this fin will help you up wind and will deliver and excellent confort and speed down wind with less effort.

All the best

G
15th May 2008, 02:16 PM
Hallo Remi,
want you please let us know the effect of the R20+6 on the board while 12-20 kt ?
If I right understand the R19 should be the weapon in 6-12 and the R17 or R13 in +17/18 (depends about water state).Am I right?
What's the reason at the moment the Kashy's seem to have an edge?

Thank you

Airtime77
15th May 2008, 02:40 PM
Hi Remi,

My very first post here so thank you for your patience. I have just ordered the 162 and I am contemplating which fin I should use with it. I am 1.7m male weighing 64kg sailing in light winds ranging from 8 knots to 15 knots. I currently use the Deboichet R16 S on my 159. Will this do on the 162? What is the ideal fin for my height and weight?

Thanks so much!

Airtime77

Remi
15th May 2008, 02:50 PM
Hi Airtime77,

The best fin we found from 55 kgs to 90 kgs is the R20 rake + 6cm. This fin is the softer fin that ever made Deboichet and glide really well with the 162.

All the best

Airtime77
15th May 2008, 03:00 PM
Thanks for the super prompt reply!

I assume this would be the 70cm size? I forgot to mention that I am sailing on 9.8m2 NP RS racing.

Just out of curiosity, what would happen if I used the R16 fin?

Thanks again!

Remi
15th May 2008, 04:56 PM
Hi Airtime77,

Yes 70 cm.

Never try this one, but I know that is less powerfull but a have an excellent glide. The R20 will give both world.

All the best

fin66
29th May 2008, 01:56 AM
Pfafi and G

Did you give a report on the competition?
I'm really confused with the board. Today I jumped on a Vapor, wtih my own sail 10.7, and the board rised high in the water and went really well compared to my 162 that felt like a submarine with R13 M +7. The fin didn't feel powerfull enough, couldn't get angle upwind, downwind is no problem. Same thing with R19 S- +8 and 11.8m2.

I'm just wondering that even if the board is recommended with R19 in light and R13 in heavy, is that really the case in competition, could it be that this board ONLY works with Kachy style fins ( R20 is it kachy style ?). At least in portugal the 4 first used kachy.

And how far do you have to go from the recommended position I've been using like -2cm, but perhaps it should be even further back.
Someone help me fast or I will buy a Dinghy.....

fin66
29th May 2008, 01:58 AM
Remi
Whats up with deboichet, no answers from Oriana, Is the Fin (R20) avaiable or not?

Has any "Normal" person got a R20 or is the fin only for team and testriders.

Has anyone actually bought one and got one ?

G
29th May 2008, 02:41 AM
hallo Fin66,
when I came back from Garda Lake Supercup I was pretty happy of the whole package performance but after having done 3 more sailing session I have to say that your feeling is not so wrong.
I did those in marginal wind and 11.Used a very fast fin which is perfect in medium wind.But I've wrong with trim and sail choice alle the 3 times.
But I felt my upwind angle wasn't as good as usual.Downwind I have no problem both for speed and angle.Maybe is a new vapor attitude.. ...maybe!
I feel that to keep a good angle upwind it does need a powerfull sail with a big draft below the boom.The fin needs to be soft and too thick.
From what I know the r20 hasn't satisfied all the testers.That's why there's not so much around.
Hope to get back to the water in couple of days and have new datas to report here.

pfaffi
30th May 2008, 02:00 PM
Hello Fin 66!
I found for my F162 as best mast base position with CR08 11,0 AND 11,7 "-2CM" measured back from the middle of the mast track not counting the insert hole (184cm 90kg). Additional I rised my boom 3 cm up from my normal position. All straps back. The fin thing is most important. You have to find a fin which gives you enough power riding the board nearly plane and not on the leeward edge. The R13 only works using the leeward edge. So forget it. Try something powerful and big. Use a cutted one with a wide powerful tip, soft flex and nearly no twist ( thats the only secret os Kashy).

fin66
30th May 2008, 04:17 PM
Pfafi and G ( and other gurus :)

Actually I had an ok session with new settings yesterday.
Mast base was -4,5cm from the recommended position printed on the board. 2cm more back than I have tried before. My boom was perhaps 1cm higher than normal (160 from middle of the boom to end of mastfoot + a neilpryde base).
And then I changed to a powerful fin. First the normal drake, but even better was hurricane 4a S 621. It’s really a soft fin but definitely faster than R19 Drake.
As you said, the board goes better if it is trimmed flat. However on the downwind I tried to “fly the fin” and then the board is on the leeward edge, is that wrong? At least it felt ok
The wind was 6-8m/s and I was on 10.7 . 11.8 could have been possible as well, since the water was really flat.

I tested against “the soon to be Finish champion” on 162 + severne 11.0 + kachy
Now I could almost keep up with him, but when we hit a lull he seemed to be able to keep the angle and his own stance, when I had to head down and adjust my stance. I don’t know if it’s the Kachy which does it or what.

The R13 really felt weird, perhaps it’s should be soft or s- to become powerful enough or then wind should be over 10m/s


After this ok session I at least decided not to quit the sport  There is still hope.

But what about light wind 3-5m/s , Do you use the same settings then, really far back with everthing or do you have more secrets….

Ps What’s CR08 ?

Hank
1st June 2008, 05:30 AM
What Pfaffi means by CR08 is: Severne Code Red 2008 version.

pfaffi
1st June 2008, 11:55 AM
CR08 = Severne Code Red model 2008
Yesterday I raked my G1 fin much more forward than using it before on F161. App. +3deg or +3,7cm. To speak in Jaques words its now a +9 or +10 S-
With this setup the F162 was much better in all. You can ride it flat and you can keep the stance and angle in lulls. Even in fast deep downwinds the board was easier to ride.

fin66
2nd June 2008, 12:29 AM
Arghhh CR08, me stupid and too tired :)

fin66
2nd June 2008, 12:34 AM
Pfafi

Whats G1 fin? Or am i too tired again :rolleyes:

Did you have to move to mast base more back when you raked it to 3deg? must push the nose down a lot.

Has anyone tried to rake drake R19, the fin that came with the board, even more upright to get enough power in light winds?

pfaffi
6th June 2008, 03:26 PM
Hi fin66
no change in mast base position with a more foreward raked fin. I found the point as described before with -2cm as best position. With my more raked fin the F162 is more stable and has a fixed trim.
If your board nose is pushed down your fin has not enough twist stability and by this the tip turns to a more powerfull angle of attack if you rake it foreward. Thats why the Kashy is doubble twist stiff as a Debo. Thats the secret.
br, peter

pfaffi
11th June 2008, 08:13 PM
Hi G!
For your F162 you need a much more powerful fin compared to the F161. Additional the fin must be raked more foreward. That is needed because of the different "Lateral Plan" of the new one. So the different rake is not only increasing (+)/decreasing(-) the finpower also it is influenzing the Lateral plan.
Deboichet has only two different outlines:
R13 and R14:
The R19 is a R13 76cm cutted to 70cm
R16-17-18 are cutted out of a longer R14, R18=R14-77cm cutted

As the R13 was Deboichets best fin it makes sence to follow the R19 which is made out of the R13. To reach the best lateral plan take a +9 or +10 for the F162.

Hope it helps!

peter

Paolo ITA138
11th June 2008, 10:25 PM
Hi Pfaffi,
sorry for the stupid question: how can you rake yourself a fin as you wrote in a previous post? What exactly is a G1 fin?

Thanks a lot!

Ciao

Paolo

G
12th June 2008, 12:17 AM
Thank you Pfaffi,
have you used this set up in Torbole Supercup?Which sail size?
I think that a so powerfull fin should be good for a 12 mq.

pfaffi
15th June 2008, 05:57 PM
Hi Paolo!
To rake a fin by yourself: first change the angle of the front end of the tuttle box head of your fin. Than you must add some epoxy material on the back end to fill the missing gap. By this setup the tuttle box head of your fin will go on the front end deeper into the box. The back end should be on correct level. E.g. 10mm deeper at front end is app. 3,7deg. or 4,5cm at the tip for a 70cm fin.
cheers peter

Paolo ITA138
20th June 2008, 07:43 PM
Thank you!

Ciao

Paolo

Papounet
20th June 2008, 08:06 PM
An old and heavily used 70 cm Deboichet R12 has been raked 4 cm forward (the fin can now be labeled a R12 Rake +4). The red arrows show places on the fin head with new material put on (epoxy putty is most often OK), and the blue arrows show places, where some original material has been removed.

The yellow arrow indicates the rotation point for the raking forward - and with a little imagination it's easy to understand that this particular fin shall violate the formula rule saying that the max. length of a fin is 70 cm - unless, of course, a little material shall be removed from the tip of the fin.
http://www.peterman.dk/finne-debo02-390-260.jpg

From : http://www.peterman.dk/start-windsurfing-gb01.htm