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View Full Version : severne codered vs. NP RS:Racing


DEN-137
26th April 2008, 04:00 PM
hi, what of this sails is best? speed, control ?

Patrick Simiglai
thanks

geo
26th April 2008, 04:17 PM
Easy... CodeReds won't perform, NP will break masts... so it depends on what you prefer...

Unregistered
27th April 2008, 08:54 AM
I will translate that for you. Geo means get a Maui sails Tr-4

Oh, you wont be able to carry it as its so heavy unless you buy the special order version.

And to save the next reply, better get a carbon art as well why you are at it

roark
27th April 2008, 12:37 PM
hmmm.. what about V8 vs MS-2 vs Overdrive vs S-type?

Which is the best in a 10m size on a formula for a lightweight sailor?

things to compare are low end power / stability when the wind picks up / weight / handling on the water / durability?

So many choices for free-race sails on the market! Appreciate it if the windsurfers who have had experience blasting on these sails would chip in if their advice and opinions!

Unregistered
27th April 2008, 05:59 PM
I've used recent S-Type and GTX in large sizes. My impressions are not scientific but the GTX 10.5m was beautiful to use, and my favourite. Tushingham Lighting is very nice too. My V8 is an earlier edition so perhaps not fair to say it doesn't quite match up, feeling 'heavier' in use. It's actually pretty heavy on the scales too, and the static weight is something you certainly notice trying any of the full race sails after the best freeracers. Interesting Maui do a special light version, didn't know that, at least they own up to the 8.4kg weight of their standard 12.- Many brands don't quote a weight, which when you think for example of the emphasis placed on mast weight, is crazy. I do know Aerotech can do a Pentex version of their VMG, and user feedback is that it makes a real difference.

Seems like most riders don't want to bother with this big kit, and I've gotta admit theres a case sticking to freestyle practice when it's light. But skimming effortless over the flat water at a windspeed multiple, and making the use of every little puff to work upwind is absorbing and satisfying to me.

geo
28th April 2008, 03:17 PM
Unregistered (post #3),
I didn't say that... but if you do... only believe me, I wouldn't have commented if the choice was, say, between North Sails Warp and Gaastra Vapor; even if, as you say, I have strong preferences. Point is that, to my eyes at least, Neil Pryde looses any credibility by giving a 6 months warranty on race masts (in EC 24 months is the law), and Severne by spraying the film. Meaning NP can't solve their technical issues and Severne tries to appeal buyers with means other than performances.

Anyhow: it doesn't seem to me that TR-4 sails are that much heavier than competitors to make any difference. Fact is, usually TR-4 are rigged on heavish Maui Sails booms that add some to rig weight. Recently I rigged a 7.0 TR-3 on an old Fiberspar 180-226 carbon boom and it felt featherweight; but since when I am using the Maui Sails boom, I am addicted to it and easily swap some weight saving for the hyper stiffness and sturdy build.
From a more technical point of view, 9 battens are heavy indeed, but this way you can have stability beyond reproach AND a soft feeling, easy to use sail. Other makes as an instance seeks stability using extreme mast bends, with obvious consequences... again, it's a matter of preferences...

Unregistered
28th April 2008, 06:00 PM
I've had lot of doubts this winter before choosing the sails for the new season.I've talked a lot with GEO about it.I came from NP and North experience.During that period I've had some chance to test tr-4's.Plus I've competed in a national slalom comp where many of my beliefs have been resetted.But,if I have to report what I've seen,Severne was second in a strong fleet (where Point 7 won).
Does it mean they're fast or slow??
In my opinion,as GEO says,there's not a noticieable fastest sail and there's no way to really achieve that point.In a comp there are so many variables that influence your speed that you really can't say what's best.And if you look at a "freeride" sailing MS has shown how fast they really could be (50+ !).
I didn't liked so much MS (just because my background is far way different) but I coudn't ever say they're slow.
As always it's a matter of preference,confidence in what you sail and how much you're willed to right trim the stuff.

geo
28th April 2008, 08:19 PM
In fact. In the end, many many things matter. I am sure a top notch sailor can be fast on almost any proper race sail. BUT. Still there are differences. Sails can be easy to sail, or not; can drain your energy out just to keep them in control, while on others your sailing sessions are just bliss 100% of the time; it can be easy to rig them properly, or it can be a nightmare that takes the fun out of the first few sessions in the season (and this can mean a lot for a recreational sailor!). Rig components may be well assorted, or not: think about the mast issue, there are people using NP sails that would never buy a NP mast for the obvious reasons we all know, and devote lots of time to find the "right" alternative mast.
In the end: if one can rely on large resources both in time and money, like a pro sailor or a very wealthy individual, I am sure he will be able to make the best of just any sail brand he picks. But if one is a recreational sailor, or even a competitive racer on a budget, I think he should better choose totally dependable stuff in order to get the most fun out of his TOW and the most performance out of his budget. This to me means quite a few sail makes are not an option, because of different reasons. In the end, my "reasoned" personal short list is very very short.

Unregistered
28th April 2008, 11:15 PM
In fact. In the end, many many things matter. I am sure a top notch sailor can be fast on almost any proper race sail. BUT. Still there are differences. Sails can be easy to sail, or not; can drain your energy out just to keep them in control, while on others your sailing sessions are just bliss 100% of the time; it can be easy to rig them properly, or it can be a nightmare that takes the fun out of the first few sessions in the season (and this can mean a lot for a recreational sailor!). Rig components may be well assorted, or not: think about the mast issue, there are people using NP sails that would never buy a NP mast for the obvious reasons we all know, and devote lots of time to find the "right" alternative mast.
In the end: if one can rely on large resources both in time and money, like a pro sailor or a very wealthy individual, I am sure he will be able to make the best of just any sail brand he picks. But if one is a recreational sailor, or even a competitive racer on a budget, I think he should better choose totally dependable stuff in order to get the most fun out of his TOW and the most performance out of his budget. This to me means quite a few sail makes are not an option, because of different reasons. In the end, my "reasoned" personal short list is very very short.

are geo and LeeD the same person?

geo
28th April 2008, 11:53 PM
No. Sorry.

Unregistered
29th April 2008, 03:42 AM
No. Sorry.

Alter ego?

Unregistered
29th April 2008, 11:49 AM
Having read Geo's wonderful reports about the Tr-4, i can only guess he is a shareholder in Maui sails or hopes to replace KP

Now ok, some people dont like the spray painting on the film of the Code Red, but his comment that the code red won't perform, has to make you laugh.

geo
29th April 2008, 10:10 PM
Frankly: I wish I could, any of the two.

The meaning of my comment about the CodeRed is: I am 100% convinced that CodeReds (like any such sails) can be sailed to perfectly competitive levels; but how easily this can be done by an average sailor with average time for his sailing, is a different matter.

As for Maui Sails (that others brought in here, not me), well, I am pretty much confident they can be a great choice.

Jean-Marc
29th April 2008, 11:18 PM
Neil Pryde looses any credibility by giving a 6 months warranty on race masts. Meaning NP can't solve their technical issues

Agree. That's one of the reasons I went away after nearly 2 decades of enjoyment.

Severne looses any credibility by spray-painting their sails and tries to appeal buyers with means other than performances. Whats is the credibility of the black-colored AC7 or the white-colored North Warp sails ? You must be joking my dear...

Except from a slight difference in thermal dissipation kinetics between black (quicker) and white (slower; see black body physical principle), color doesn't matter to perform better in a sail.

As for surface spray-painting per se, it may matter for a fin but I strongly doubt it for a sail where air is 1000x less dense than water.

Finally, on a personal note, the difference for a lightweight between a NP RS6 10.7 and a CodeRed2 11.0 sail is pretty much obvious : just ask the lactic acid content of my sore muscles at the end of the day. Nothing to do with the color, believe me...

Cheers !

JM

Jean-Marc
29th April 2008, 11:50 PM
...well, on a second thought, color may matter security wise. If sailing in rain, mist or fog, at least in my opinion after 1 year of use, the Code Red is more visible far away than transluscent, black or white sails and may help you to avoid collision with your buddies or other sailing crafts as well. Another point is whether you better like to be in safe or in stealth mode and how to deal with the unexpected odds on some instances (e.g., search & rescue in bad weather). Your call...

Cheers !

JM

geo
30th April 2008, 12:10 AM
Whats is the credibility of the black-colored AC7 or the white-colored North Warp sails ? You must be joking my dear...
Agree. But at least North Sails have unquestioned performance. One may not like the feel, but performance is there.
Except from a slight difference in thermal dissipation kinetics between black (quicker) and white (slower; see black body physical principle), color doesn't matter to perform better in a sail.
...
Black will also absorb more light energy. In the end it will be hotter.
...well, on a second thought, color may matter security wise.
...

Cheers !

JM
Well maybe... but I don't think CodeReds' colours are optimized for this purpose. Anyhow this can be a good reason, althought not mine.

Jean-Marc
30th April 2008, 12:46 AM
Black will also absorb more light energy. In the end it will be hotter.

Hotter on the beach, yes. Colder while sailing. Black is a better thermal conductor in air (e.g., black-painted air-cooling engines of motorcycles).

Whether a colder sail is faster while sailing, that is the question...

Cheers !

JM

geo
30th April 2008, 04:50 AM
JM,
???
As far as I know, black coloured objects will have better radiating thermal exchange properties, and this will make them get cool or hot faster depending to the temperature of the other radiating objects (in the case of a sail in Sunlight: the Sun surface is about5,800 K or 5,500 C) and relative angle of view; but it makes no difference as to conduction and convection. My air cooled bike's engine is not black, just light metal.
Don't think this makes any difference as to speed.

Unregistered
30th April 2008, 03:40 PM
i have code red 2 sail and it is perfect-easy to rig, well built, very easy and stable on the water ,exellent and soft rotation in the gybes.
i dont' care if it is translucent or red painted if it performs well. but if i was to choose between ordinary looking sail and a red painted one , if they both had same performance, i would take the second one.

anyhow,geo, have you sailed severne's,north's or pryde's current slalom sails to be spilling such rubbish around? or you just don't have anyone to talk to on the beach or outside cyberspace?
or maybe you always wanted to be part of some team and the anly way for you could do it is to buy spanier's sails and make yourself beleive you are now "team rider"?

geo
30th April 2008, 06:02 PM
i have code red 2 sail and it is perfect-
...
anyhow,geo, ...
1) Glad to see someone likes painted film; tastes are tastes, I expressed mine earlier.
2) What rubbish? I blame NP because their warranty on race mast is 6 mo. (and for this reason I wouldn't buy any even if they were the undisputed best performers); is this true or not? I said I don't like coloured film as it looks (to me) a cheap way to offer something "special" other than performance: can you say Severnes perform on a par with the best? And, did I say anything about North sails?

No I am definitely no team rider. Should I?

Unregistered
2nd May 2008, 10:26 AM
I like the red code paint job as to me it is attractive.
Is it a cheap way to attract attention? Yes it is. How else do you make a sail in pure film visible without spending big dollars on pure visuals. Does it hide a lack of performance? - no way. It does address the often talked about factor of sail visibility on the water - the so called death of windsurfing imagery due to clear monofilm. The red sails catch the eye of anyone looking that way very well - job done don't you think? The north white sails do the same thing up close.

The paint may come off in 2 years or so but everyone who buys race sails keeps saying they constantly update their sails anyway, so what does it matter!

The performance is generally spot on in most brands race sails. Some try to catch attention through graphics and some don't bother, but for me good looking visible sails are a benefit for the sport, not just a sales gimmick.