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mark h
29th April 2008, 01:52 AM
Just heard about this:

Due to its inability to pay and insolvency the F2 has internationally GmbH, FN Alpenstr. 99, 5020 Salzburg, 290347g, vertr. D AP Dipl. Ing. Gerald Pa with the national court Salzburg the request for opening of the bankruptcy posed. With today's judicial resolution one allowed to this request (23 S 21/08w).


Procedure data:
The report hearing takes place to 15.05.2008
Demands are, even if over it a law case is pending already to make valid to at the latest 20.06.2008
The test hearing was fixed for the 03.07.2008
Insolvency causes:
The F2 internationally GmbH is busy with the production and the selling of sports articles, it concerns Windsurfboards, Snowboards and soft connections in particular.

If one follows the data in the bankruptcy petition, the however partner bought the partial enterprise including mark "F2" from a company Boards & More GmbH with seat in Rabach 1, to 4591 Molln, in the year 2007. In order to secure the financing, a unbesichertes partner loan was put to the nunmehrigen common debtor company of € 1.925.000, - - at the disposal. By end of the first financial year - the common debtor company balances under-year old in each case in February - it was certain that with sales profits by approximately 5.2 Mio.€ a negative result was gained by approximately 2.2 Mio.€, with which of the Alleingesellschafterin invested capital was used up in only nine months.

Causally for it the high cost load is in particular for the care of mark and image; in the bankruptcy petition running runner staffs, are stated world-wide marketing meetings as well as substantial advertising expenditures which are confessed to attainable sales profits in no relation at planned and/or in foreseeable time. Beyond that are also enormous development costs for the product range of the enterprise for the insolvency responsible.

After plan calculations had resulted in from a tax consulting company the fact that also in the season 2008/09 a further loss of at least one further million euro was foreseeable was stated on the basis a scenario plan the fact that a reorganization out of court was to be excluded and saw itself the enterprise therefore compelled to the bankruptcy petition position.

Financial circumstances:
The statement of assets and liabilities after liabilities of € 5.814.000, - -, book values of € 5.647.000, - - opposite, with which the insolvency would amount to only round € 167,000, - -. The smashing values plan however - after consideration of the right to seperate settlements as well as "adaptation" of the enterprise - remaining liabilities of € 4.991.000, - - with total assets of only € 791,000, - - .

The aforementioned adaptation concerns the intended Redimensionierung of the ranges marketing, advertisement and product care, which would correspond to a substantial cancellation of the circulating capital. From the premises mentioned a "theoretical" ratio of 12 % for the creditors results.

To mark it is that it concerns with these scenarios mentioned only acceptance and must the actual situation in the bankruptcy proceedings naturally only develop.

Possible obligation reconciliation:
Positively for the glaeubigerschaft it is to be called anyhow that in the bankruptcy petition it is already stated that the F2 intends to place internationally GmbH the request for conclusion of an obligation reconciliation.

Are the creditors 20% - bar ratio, after acceptance and confirmation of an obligation reconciliation to be offered payable at short notice.
To mark it is that it concerns for the time being thereby a declaration of intent and was not brought in a concrete obligation balance request yet.

To be fulfilled obligation reconciliation is in all other respects by the fact that is intended to continue the enterprise also in the bankruptcy.

The Fortbetrieb is in all other respects to become secured by financing by borrowing third, as this credit should cover the liquidity gap from the Fortbetrieb for planned three months. This Fortbetrieb is to create among other things the condition for intended obligation reconciliation, whereby it is intended that the enterprise is away-operated also after conclusion of obligation reconciliation, however in a substantially redimensionierten extent - see above - whereby in the bankruptcy petition is aforementioned that with realization of

the scenario the common debtor company is confident, the warranty third for the fulfilment of obligation reconciliation to receive.

Firm book:
The F2 internationally GmbH was created with articles of association of 1.3.2007 and is logged in the firm book of the national court Salzburg to FN 290347g. Alleingesellschafterin with a fully installation-paid investment at a value of € 100,000, - - is the Sir Francis Heath private donation. As according to commercial law managing directors functions Dipl.Ing. Gerald Pa. Still in the firm book stated the managing director engineer likes pure hard yard farmer according to the data in the bankruptcy petition back stepped.

For further information:
AKV EUROPE
GST Salzburg

Unregistered
29th April 2008, 02:49 AM
Its a shame especially when you consider number of "Toys"; development; Fun and Function F2 have provided for years and years.(Loads more than #B ???)
Their demise (if it does happen) has certainly been helped by all the sheer BS peddled by manufacturers nowadays.
I`ve been involved in sport since late 70`s.There has never been a worse time for "dead" ends and BS.
F2 (in past ?) could always be relied on to provide fantastic quality;performance ;at a realistic price;ith realistic claims of that performanc.All their products have been excellent.Many have been classics.They have at many times led the pack.(Metaphorically and literally)To many they always will.
The WS world will be worse for their loss .!
I do hope poster 1 wasn`t gloating !

mark h
29th April 2008, 04:57 AM
Hi Unreg.
No gloating here, more shocked. I think its a sad day when a major playersinks. Not a good day for any of us. Hopefully a buyer will come forward with a salvage package.

Dr Doom
29th April 2008, 07:08 AM
Windsurfing companies that bit the dust:

1. Windsurfing Hawaii
2. Paia Sails
3. Gun Sails
4. Sailboard Masterclass
5. Bic
6. HiFly
7. Marlin
8. f2
9. Ampro
10. ???

Any others?

viking
29th April 2008, 11:18 AM
Gun Sails?
Bic?

They both look quite fine. Do you have an idea of how much Technos Bic solds?

ClusterFuk
29th April 2008, 11:47 AM
Wind Weapon

andreas
29th April 2008, 03:50 PM
* Klepper
* Alpha
* ART

have also disappeared...

cya on the water,
Andreas

Floyd
29th April 2008, 04:06 PM
Chapter
Limited Edition
New Waves
M+M
Dolphin
The Other Alpha (Sail builders)
There`s more gone than left !

Unregistered
29th April 2008, 08:43 PM
Rushwind
Fleetwood
Surf Engineering
Waddell Sails
Gorge Technology
Parton Boards
Hi-per-tech
Windsure

Unregistered
29th April 2008, 09:58 PM
You didntīmention Pro-Tech.

Unregistered
30th April 2008, 12:50 AM
effeminacy rules the market. male population emphasizes feminine part of their personalities, becomes more gently and stylish. market of "hard, powerfull and functional, performance oriented" brands as f2, north, mistral, most american brands shrinks. survives brands that has chinese, african, arabic or at the worst case italian look. the brands that talks to feminine part of man:)

Ola_H
30th April 2008, 01:57 AM
effeminacy rules the market. male population emphasizes feminine part of their personalities, becomes more gently and stylish. market of "hard, powerfull and functional, performance oriented" brands as f2, north, mistral, most american brands shrinks. survives brands that has chinese, african, arabic or at the worst case italian look. the brands that talks to feminine part of man:)

Wow, that's what I call an analysis.

Anowan
30th April 2008, 04:34 AM
ROTFL Ola :D

To Dr Doom : Bic, GunSails and Hifly are doing very very well, thanks for them :D

Peter R
30th April 2008, 06:00 AM
ROTFL Ola :D

To Dr Doom : Bic, GunSails and Hifly are doing very very well, thanks for them :D

As far as I remember: The first Hifly (which was one of the most succesfull board manufacturers in the eighties) did actually went bankrupt. The name Hifly was later bought by the present manufacturer.

Unregistered
30th April 2008, 07:28 AM
Yes if you liked sailing boards made of washing up bowls.
They were great if you wanted to drag kids about over shingle sand glass bricks etc etc.Think the term was variable rocker line.They bent quite a bit;especially in warm climes.
Sailed my mates (555; anybody else remember that !!!) and you could feel it flexing over chop/ripples.You could even look behind you and see boards vibration affecing wake ! (Really !)
They did fill a market at time though ! (Think they had first "fat head" sail too !;the 555 came with a 7.2 (unheard of those days;it was a 6.6 regatta with a "fat head" )
Couldn`t match Sailboard Sport or F2 Lightning though !
All gone now !!!????

Philip
30th April 2008, 07:59 AM
Ten Cate
De Vries (sails)
Bombora
Tyronsea (Australia - as a board maker)
Windrush (Australia)
Cobra (as a board brand)

Peter R
30th April 2008, 08:17 AM
Yes if you liked sailing boards made of washing up bowls.
They were great if you wanted to drag kids about over shingle sand glass bricks etc etc.Think the term was variable rocker line.They bent quite a bit;especially in warm climes.
Sailed my mates (555; anybody else remember that !!!) and you could feel it flexing over chop/ripples.You could even look behind you and see boards vibration affecing wake ! (Really !)
They did fill a market at time though ! (Think they had first "fat head" sail too !;the 555 came with a 7.2 (unheard of those days;it was a 6.6 regatta with a "fat head" )
Couldn`t match Sailboard Sport or F2 Lightning though !
All gone now !!!????

I actually meant succesfull in number of boards sold (exceeding 35.000 per year). I once had a 555 myself, but they also had a epoxy line, and they were at least as sophisticated as F2 at that time - and also very succesfull in racing. By the way, aren't we a little off topic now.

Unregistered
30th April 2008, 09:48 AM
Waddel Sails
Seatrend
JB Sails
Obrien
Dufour
Windsurfer
UP
Berky Composites
Northshore Maui

Unregistered
30th April 2008, 10:09 AM
Maui sails?

steveC
30th April 2008, 10:33 AM
I think that poster #19 must be smoking something caustic to brain cells. Although I'm not sailing MS sails, I think that some of their products (like their carbon booms and detail components) are the benchmark in the industry.

Frankly, even though I'm light on experience with Barry Spanier's sail designs, if I was going to experiment with a different sail brand, MS would be one of my prime picks.

Unregistered
30th April 2008, 11:04 AM
Some good sailboard brands aren't dead but they seem good as dead:

Jimmy Lewis
HiTech
Sailboards Maui

Unregistered
30th April 2008, 01:19 PM
Now come on steveC, just because you think they make the best carbon booms and that you would be willing to try their sails next does not mean that they cant go bust.

Many of the companies listed have also had or made claim to class leading equipment, but they still went bust. Some in the days when windsurfing was showing real growth.

I think what you are smoking is a bit stronger than mine

Unregistered
30th April 2008, 07:58 PM
Measure of a brands success is not just "number of boards" sold.
How much did company contribute to advancement in sport ;technically and in personal development.
F2have been at forefront all the time !
Were would Dunkerbeck be ? Dave White ? Production speed record ? Missiles ?
Comet ? Bullit ? Lightning ? Hire Centres ? Canaries ? Sunset Slalom ?? Strato ?? List is endless
The sport is really going to miss F2. No brand has contributed more !!!!(Including #B and Mistral)

Hifly sold vey limited numbers of Epoxy boards and not until well after 555. Which to be fair was a Dog compared with F2 (and Saiboard`s) offerings. of time.HiFly`s best board was HiFy wave which was at best only OK.No classics in HiFly range. Sorry

Look at it another way ?
Were Hifly missed ? Noway.
Will F2 be missed ? Without doubt.

steveC
1st May 2008, 12:33 AM
Well poster #22, it's my understanding that the thread focuses on windsurfing brands that didn't make it over time, at least in their original incarnation. As I see it, Maui Sails is still in business, so one has to view the specific post I responded to as a slight against the brand. You may not want to see MS succeed for one reason or another, but that's a different matter.

Regarding F2, they're seemingly in a tight corner right now, but it's quite possible that the brand could live on. I would certainly hope so, but circumstances must play out over the long haul.

Unregistered
2nd May 2008, 05:29 AM
What's left in current "F2" from the original?
(compare George Washington's axe)

Attrition rate of windsurf companies about par for any industry. No worse , no better!

Best

R

Unregistered
2nd May 2008, 05:59 AM
Attrition rate of windsurf companies about par for any industry. No worse , no better!

That's quite a sweeping generalization. Anything to back it up?

Floyd
2nd May 2008, 02:38 PM
Might just be my pathetic IT skills but seems to me Reni-Egli website has "vanished".
Anything to do with F2 going ??
Is centre still operating ? (It is for kites!)
Anybody know anything ?

Unregistered
2nd May 2008, 07:34 PM
Arrows Sails,
Kinetic (I think)
are both gone.

ken

Rick W
2nd May 2008, 08:36 PM
F2 will live to fight another day much stronger than before. Brands in any industry rise and fall on the strength of the passion management has for the marketplace. Testimony to this observation is a company like starboard who have true passion for windsurfing from top to bottom. MauiSails is another example.

Unregistered
2nd May 2008, 11:03 PM
Its a bit naive to think the only companies that go out of busiess are those without drive;commitment etc.
Biggest influence in our sport are trends and market forces.Being ble to steer those with strong advertising ; high profile competition participation seems to pay dividends today.
Loads of companies have gone who have offered fantastic products and run by people with drive and commitment.(in and out of WS)
Do you really think offerings from #B are any better than F2 !!!
Dont think so.
Best thing or our sport is healty competion between manufacturers.
Afraid windsurfers at moment dont seem to want that.They just shout about #B !!!

steveC
3rd May 2008, 01:59 AM
I'm going offer something here that some may not agree with, but I personally think that its quite meaningful overall. I think that F2 was really coming up short with the graphic designs on their boards.

Now, if you look at the graphic design concepts that Starboard is using on their boards, in my opinion they're fantasic. Arguably the best out there, and they keep hitting the bullseye year after year. While there's obviously more to a brand's products than just graphics, but if a board looks like a dog, its popularity is going to suffer.

Unregistered
5th May 2008, 07:47 AM
i personally feel jp has the best graphics. But starboards are very good too, and i agree graphics play a big part in buyer decision

Unregistered
6th May 2008, 12:42 PM
I like F2 graphics. Straight, hard, like steel. And dont like graphics about "flowers and something everything" like on glamour fashion posters.
I like the boards feeling and shaping style even more. Diethelm is that rare shaper who wins races on his own boards.

Unregistered
7th May 2008, 02:43 PM
No wonder best board manufacurer there`s ever been has gone bust when sailors choose a board by what picture is on it.
Should be a rule. No graphics.Plain white. (or pink with flowers for the girls;and I dont mean the females)
Can you imagine Robbie or Bjorn (Or Antione) ever caring what colour or pictures were on the board under their feet.
or even worse lowering themselves to discuss it.
"Oh Robbie ,I like the striped one with blue flashes;isnt it pretty.What about you Bjorn?"
We deserve it !!!
BS BS BS rules

Bill
7th May 2008, 03:50 PM
Can you imagine Robbie or Bjorn (Or Antione) ever caring what colour or pictures were on the board under their feet.
BS BS BS rules

I believe it is naive to think graphics are not important.

They are even more important for professional sailors.

Robby identifies himself with the pirates cross bone and skull and uses red heavily in his boards. He also uses the same pink coloured sails.

Bjornís boards are also very distinctive graphics with bold segments.

Jason uses yellow in his boards.

They want to identify themselves through their graphics as well as their sailing style.

Starboard graphics are the best in the business IMHO and I would hate to see plain old white boards, how boring.

Ellen Faller
8th May 2008, 01:31 AM
When did HiFly go out of business? and if they did, why are there 2008 HiFly boards for sale?

Unregistered
8th May 2008, 05:06 AM
He does that to sell boards to us idiots.He knows graphics help sell boards; he also knows they dont make a jot of difference to how board performs !!!

Bill
9th May 2008, 02:16 AM
He does that to sell boards to us idiots.He knows graphics help sell boards; he also knows they dont make a jot of difference to how board performs !!!

Don,t be hard on yourself I am sure they donít think you are an idiot. BTW no one said graphics help a board perform.

Unregistered
9th May 2008, 03:21 PM
When #board have eventually taken over the world to the expense of all other board manfacturers with their own brand of marketing;sponsorship etc etc it will be an even worse day for WS.
#B and their approach to the sport (read their claims on this site;look at thir approach to getting best sailors)must have some responsibility in demise of F2.
F2 didnt "play the game" o such an extent.They `ve paid the price.(or actually we have)

mark h
9th May 2008, 09:22 PM
Post 39, boy you sound bitter. I dont see how SB had any responsibility in the demise of F2, I'd say full responsibility lies at F2's chairman (just resigned).

Unless mental, SB & other industries will never play there products "down", why would they!! Hype, hype & more hype is why we keep buying. Luckly most of us are able to cut through the hype & PR and decide whats good and whats not good. Personally I'm a sucker for hype and always look forward to new boards/sails launch dates and I usually manage to find a reason to upgrade my kit.

I dont ride f2's but I was not pleased to hear about F2 hitting comercial problems. I'm confident that a buyer will turn up. Theres alot of good guys/girls under the F2 wing and my first thoughts are for them.

Unregistered
10th May 2008, 02:16 AM
Mark H
Look at it this way.
Which company spends most money on advertising ?
Which company has best website ?
Which company has best sailors ?
Which company has biggest sponsorship budget ?
Which company makes biggest claims ?(Read the site)
Which company has best/biggest/flashiest brochures?
Which company gets best results ??? (Sailor or board ???)
That company has got to have had loads to do with F2 going !

mark h
10th May 2008, 07:28 PM
Hi unreg, I kinda see where your comming from.

Probably SB to all the above (accept maybe advertising, F2 spent more on this, I think!!). All those things you'v listed are key ingredients for commercial sucess.

I still dont get how a sucessfully commercial company can be held responsible for the demise of a competing company. Its a bit like saying , General motors caused British leyland motors to go bankrupt.

During liquidation meeting, SB's name will not be qouted as one of the reasons for liquidating, but decisions made by senior management and ultimetly its directors will be questioned.

This isnt a "one horsed race" theres plenty of room for several thourough breds in this race.

Hopefully you can see where I'm comming from.

Unregistered
11th May 2008, 02:04 AM
Yes I do see exactly where you are coming from and in world as it is now where sales through any method are deemed fine then you are perfectly correct.
If boards were bought totally on merit then picture would be different.
#B sell lifestyle.They promote their products fantastically.They get the best sailors.Their brochures are incredible.etc etc.We pay for this.
Few years ago I owned an F2 powerglide CSE. Everyone was raving over Carve.Every magazine;on here; and on the beach by those that had bought one.Yes it was good but definitely no better than PG.Infact they felt virtually same ( IMO PG probably faster and in CSE lighter.)
Carve became a "classic" ;PG was forgotten about.(Became Hornet I suppose)
Carve outsold PG 3 or 4 to 1. Why ? Because sailors believe the adverts/hype/BS etc etc.
Cant blame #B its the buying public !!
Thats what #B are great at; not necessarily making best product but achieving best sales !

I do think F2 were partly to blame for their downfall.
a) They didnt play the game so well
b) They devalued their products through hire centres .(ie year old kit available under half price and much with little use)(#B beware)

Think it should be noted their boards are equal to any anywhere.That should be enough to keep company solvent.It wasn`t !!!???

mark h
11th May 2008, 05:03 AM
OK, fair enough, I guess you'v put your point of view accross well & high-lights how we all take different views on stuff. No disagreements, just different feelings.

With the PWA Ulsan slalom event kicking off in a few days, does any one know if Finian M, Patrik D, Jimmy D & Karen Y will still be on F2 boards? Will the money pot being held be the appointed reciever cover their travelling expenses etc? Or will this now come out of the riders own pockets or will sail sponsors make up the difference? Or will they be on another manufactures boards?

Philip
11th May 2008, 07:18 AM
Yep cosmetics are important as is the ability of companies to connect with their market. *Board is particularly adept at connecting, interacting and taking direct (public) feedback ; well this website and forum is a classic example. Then there is the question of innovation. I sailed F2 products and they were good and pace setting at times. *Board also has lots of innovation to its credit and the performance of its products and within its model line up is well understood by the market. All of this no doubt increases buyer confidence in their producet and is patently a successful business model for the times.

Bill Gates
11th May 2008, 10:37 PM
There's an implication in some of the posts that Starboard is winning the battle with an inferior product and unfair or exploitative business practices. Like Starboard is the Microsoft of windsurfing.

Interesting view.

mark h
12th May 2008, 01:53 AM
Mr Gates, with multi-million dollar empire taking up all of your time, its real cool that you have found 5 minutes to post your comments on this forum.

Unregistered
12th May 2008, 04:27 AM
Dont think anyone inferred inferior;just no better.

mark h
12th May 2008, 06:07 AM
Think I'd better drop out of this conversation as the likes of Bill Gates (microsoft) and Sir Alan Sugar (Amstrad) will run rings around me, Lol.

Unregistered
13th May 2008, 05:51 AM
Just heard all F2 riders have resigned contracts???

Are they expecting a new buyer, and therefore signing all the top names??

Rhatt Sew
13th May 2008, 02:10 PM
Just heard all F2 riders have resigned contracts???

They've resigned? Just for clarity, are you inferring they've re-signed, i.e. signed anew, or, that they've turned in their resignations?

I know what I would do... Jump the sinking ship. They don't call me "Ratso" for nothing.

Har de har har.

Unregistered
14th May 2008, 06:31 AM
Re-signed their contracts for the coming year.

Sail Quick
14th May 2008, 09:31 AM
I thought F2 made great boards, well made, very fast, durable and lots of fun to use in the hands of a skilled sailor. Sad to see them go under. Windsurfing has become a bit soft and boring with all this plug n play gear being turned out to try and hook the younger generation.