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View Full Version : Latest news on Phantom 380?


James
25th June 2008, 08:39 AM
It sure is a good-looking board... but what's up with its availability and the "revisions" it was rumored to be undergoing several months ago? Does anyone have one of these "new" phantom 380s yet? The fact that it's been so long since we've heard about it makes me worry that there's a problem with its manufacture or something. Especially after reading this...

http://www.lbwindsurfing.com/opinion/ensuring-supply-of-longboards/

Unregistered
25th June 2008, 08:10 PM
I have been following the longboard race board issues for a litle bit . I am thinking of buying one ( used or new ...?? i dont know) and starting to race like i did years ago with a Mistral Comp SST ( complete for $1300 ex VAT here in Canada 15 years ago... i gave it away).

I know of of a guy who has ordered one here in central canada other then that i havent heard anything other then the high sticker price(even at cost) .

As you know the only long boards available to race " competitively" are old F2s lightnings ( rare) equipes, mistral ODs, at least from what i have seen on the net. Konas while nice, cant compete with this old crop of racers so i dont count them in, and it is unlikley it will get a following with the hardcore racers in central US where i am located.
The whole issue here for me is will the new 380 out class the older raceboards?
While some look for the best performance money can buy, i am looking for better competition without being outclassed by the newest gear.
GO O.D. you say? well when there no fleet locally theres no use.
Ramping up production on the assembly line for a product like this is surely to cost the manufacturer quite a bit of moola straight up without any guarantee of sales.
Simply put sales are important and a company needs them.
Starboard like other companies like exocet seem to be feeling ther way slowly and methodically before they release a tried and true product.
The last few years have seen boards like the shorter phantom come and go, along with the hybrids ...a very confusing mix it seesm to me and evidence of some confusion at the manufactueres level as well.
Maybe it a if you build it they ( the buyers)will come.
they didnt seem to come out for the boards ive just mentioned so.... IMHO they are being carefull now.
shredulato

James
25th June 2008, 10:29 PM
"The last few years have seen boards like the shorter phantom come and go, along with the hybrids ...a very confusing mix it seems to me and evidence of some confusion at the manufacturers level as well."

Good thoughts, Shredulato. It looks to me like the Phantom 380 is a winner, but I guess after expensive experiments with white elephants like the hybrids, Starboard are taking the path of caution.

I sail a Kona now. It's a fun board and probably a great one-design, but it can't keep up with older raceboards and sailboats around a course, so opportunities for good competition are limited. That's where I think a Phantom 380 would shine. Just for once I'd like to spank the local sailboat fleet in their Wednesday night races. I came close a couple times when I used to sail formula, but the wind would always drop before the race was over.

Joe
26th June 2008, 02:58 AM
James - get a Serenity.
I raced mine against a local fleet and came 3rd (out of 20 mixed fleet - hobie's to 25' day boats). If I had used my 10.4 instead of my 8.5 and didn't wipe out on half of my jibes I think I would have won easily.
More practice jibing and downwind ...

Screamer
26th June 2008, 09:10 AM
Just for once I'd like to spank the local sailboat fleet in their Wednesday night races. I came close a couple times when I used to sail formula, but the wind would always drop before the race was over.

Joe is right.
Or, find an old Olympic Lechner or another Div2 board, forgotten in some garage. You will destroy them sailboats >:) (where's that mean gleeful smiley?)

James
26th June 2008, 10:45 PM
Now the products page for the Phantom doesn't load. Seems this board is very aptly named!

Joe & Screamer- I might just take your suggestion; I demoed the Serenity once and was very impressed. Although with limited budget and storage space I'm more inclined to invest in a flat-bottomed raceboard with more all-around performance. I remember sailing a friend's Mistral Superlight II with a 10.9 and chasing down sailboats easily in 5 knots of wind.

Remi
26th June 2008, 11:16 PM
Hi All,

The Phantom Race is available now, and just win the German Championship. The construction is completely new since the World Title 07. The board is in Wood/Carbon and have some change like the dagger board of 78cm with a new profil, position of the dagger board, position for the track mast, position of the phootstraps insert, deep tuttle, new fin R19 48cm.

All the best

rod_r
27th June 2008, 03:18 AM
James, you can load the Phamtom page via the "my board" tab in products, but it's the old information.

Unregistered
28th June 2008, 10:09 AM
you will have a hard time smashing just any sailboat fleet IMHO . I say that as i have sailed boards and boat for many years . Yeah theres the "dog" sailboats, but there are performance ones too. Without getting into the countless myriad factors , your best bet as one poster stated is a formula setup with barely planing winds.
I say that as I sail on a big OD class called a melges 24 and they rip downind when the wind gets over 15 knots. And they aint slow when its light either, 3 -7 knots even downwind in light airs the assymetrical spinnaker is something a board does not (yet..any ideas??) have.
Even symetrical spin boat can go deep to the downwind to the gybe gate/ mark while a board must play angles for best VMG.
you either need nuclear winds when they cant cope, or just barely planing winds when the dogs are still slow and perfomance sailboats cant get up and go.
again IMHO....

Unregistered
9th October 2008, 12:01 PM
Bump!

I have it on good authority that ALL Phantom 380s are being recalled. Please can an official source tell us what is going on. What's happening?

BTW I think a recall - if indeed there is one - is the responsible way to deal with problems and Starboard should be aplauded for admitting to problems and offering solutions. I'd just like to know what's going on.

Unregistered
9th October 2008, 04:36 PM
In our recently started racing season in Australia there are a number of Phantoms racing. So far the board has proved competitive but not to competitive. There is an interesting review of the board at http://www.lbwindsurfing.com/

tonymatta
10th October 2008, 01:49 AM
I would like to put in a good word for the hybrids since there is some criticism of them above, and thanks to Starboard for the effort in developing them.

I sail an RSX and Starboard Z-class against a boat fleet and the advantage they offer is that they are easier to sail in all directions because of the stability. They can be sailed with a smaller sail than a formula because they still works in light winds without plaining. This means that it makes racing more accessible to more people with less skill.

They are slower than most boats in very light winds but they pass more and more boats as the wind gets stronger. They allow you to carry larger sails than most longboards (for a given skill level). Like every different boat or board, they require their own techniques which are not well known because they haven't been so popular.

There is no perfect board for all conditions nor a perfect boat for all conditions. I am sure that the phantom and formula are faster in most conditions but I know my hybrids are easier to sail. I race against the next vessel in front of me so there is always a challenge and an opportunity to improve.

My advice to any one who wants to race is just pick one board and have fun learning how to sail it. There is no right answer. Hybrids may have not have won over a big market but the idea did and still does have merit.

Unregistered
10th October 2008, 03:54 AM
Tony. One other advantage, they are faster to tack so encourage tactical racing. And yet another one. They have more variety of sailing modes. But most do feel pretty sluggish sub planning. In France there has been more racing and there the Pacer and , especially, the Bic 310 have proven top dogs. The Pacer is available in a lightweight construction too, which would be interesting to try. The Bic isn't although most seem to rate the shape most highly. Apparently a guy in France has had a custom copy built at 12kgs, might really show the concepts potential. The Prodigy is in a slightly different class, but the rest have disappeared. As would the RSX if it lost the O status.

Also in response to "the assymetrical spinnaker is something a board does not (yet..any ideas??) have." I've thought about this and came up with the idea of uisng leading edge slots http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leading_edge_slot These allow a greater angle of attack, which should mean going deeper. Of course the sail would have to have structural integrity with some 'cut out' near the leading edge - not easy. Another problem is a slight loss of windward point due to lesser performance at small angles of attack. But theory and practice suggest the gain could be significantly larger than the loss (not that I'm an expert in the ield - just interested). However in course racing yourer bascially lost if near the back at the windward mark, so proabably wouldn't be worth the effort. Would be great to see it tried out for 'downwind dash' racing though...

Actually the longboards are pretty fast compared to most boats in many situations- the IMCO was rated the third fastest class behind the Tornado and 49'er. Never had the chance to go on a Melges but I know they are a pretty full on race kit too.

Unregistered
10th October 2008, 09:58 AM
I'm curious to know from LBboarder what rigs are being used with the new longboards; is it mostly 10m rigs with lots of draft and adjustments, or are people actually still using little 7.5m rigs?

Somewhere on that site, it says something about lack of deep draft rigs for longboards....all I can say is check out the glide from severne; that sail has grunt like you would not believe; it feels (in power) like a 10m but is significantly smaller than that.

I don't really follow longboarding that much; but AFAIK the Phantom was pretty competitive at a world level with the right guy sailing it. I've tried not many longboards (Kona, IMCO, Mahola, Phantom 380, 320, some other old one) and the Phantom definitely (to me) felt very very nice and planed up surprisingly early; if there was any where to race one here I'd even consider buying one; good fun.

As for kites; given the windsurf hot angles downwind scenario option and the difficulties of supporting a kite without a backstay, I'd suggest just run more area and sail windward leewards or learn to control a big rig on a reach.....would be cool to see though ;-)

The whole philosophy of sportboats like a M24 is to suffer upwind and then make it all back downwind and so you just need to paste them upwind is the best idea :-) The M24 is going to really struggle (like most sporties) in about 6-12 knots, when the apparent requires sailing angles but you can't plane to make up the extra distance..... the M24 is miles slower than a tornado or a 49er as it only does 6.7 knots (at a guess) upwind; and even for a spotrboat it is fairly mild by today's standards; this is my idea of a more extreme sportboat:
www.shawyachtdesign.com

interesting to learn the prodigy is dying; doesn't surprise me; at the end of the day a lot of those boards are being superceded by newer models; Kona presumably has stuck it to the prodigy - C249 is this what your numbers suggest?

Unregistered
11th October 2008, 02:47 PM
Good grief Trapeze's on a sportsboat - looks like as skiff!

Most Racboarders seem to have gone over to the offical 9.5m class - think Germany maybe an exception numers wise. To me a 9.5M balances the longboard better, but naturally does take away from the windrange without a change down.

Unregistered
11th October 2008, 06:59 PM
longboard windsurfing website has more user info on the 380.
A few guys "up the road" who ranted and raved about them bought them and are racing . However a friend of mine raced against 2 them on his equipe II in primarily light airs and found he traled them by small margins , sometimes seconds. This seems to confirm what the longboard website said the 380 is competitive but not overwhelmingly so.
However that being said , the 380 still beat him, and to some that is all that matters for a podium finish.


Yeah after sailing a melges all summer the dreaded 6 to 12 knots killed us. In these winds we managed to get ahead upwind on boats slower then us that we had to correct over at the finish but downwind those same boats made up the time.
As to a windsurf rig leading edge slots, well they increase light but also increase drag.
Aircraft using them use them primarily for takeoff and landing , at these time engine power is on full and angle of attack is also high, very ineffecient but it allows aircraft apparent speed to slow while still flying, wheels hit the groudn power off viola short takeoof and landings. Planes that have these leading edge lift devices deployed continually suffer from lack of speed while cruising , due to drag from these appendages.

unregistered
12th October 2008, 04:44 PM
No arguing that drag will increase with slots, which is why I've only really imagined them in the downwind dash scenario. There we are operating at as high as angle of attack as we can , proabaly well past most efficent. I wonder whether by running deeper, if a little slower, with slots (ie closer to the spin equipped boats) it would be possible to make more VMG. For general aviation take off/ landing, drag is probably pretty irrelevent to the designer. However if the goal is different then the placement and sizing of the slots would differ to meet the changed target. The only windtunnel work I know of in this area has been done for paragliders, and is shown on
http://www.skywalk.info/Content/103/?mnid=328
According to independant tests (in the table 2/3 the way down) they got virtually 20% decrease in stall speed (ie high angle of attack) for 2% increase in drag at minimum angle of attack (equivalent to upwind). Certainly those things sell well enough. I've spoken to owners and they say the only disadvantage is a narrow 'poor performance window' at medium angle of attack - might be a problem on a sail for beam reaching, but not up/downwind. Just makes me wonder - but we don't see so much experimentation nowdays with rigs, that all seems to be on the kites.

Regards the 380 the big plus for me would be the width. Once used to wider tails I found going back on a raceboard takes quite a readjustment of style.

Tiesda You
13th October 2008, 10:01 AM
To owners of the Phantom Race 380 serial numbers #040 and above,

Our manufacturer has advised us that a number of boards have been produced without the specified layer of PVC reinforcement around the critical area in the daggerboard box. This may result in cracks and water intake. We feel that it is the correct action for the World’s number one Windsurfing board brand to make a full recall on this model, to be replaced with the new 2009 version of the Phantom Race 380, scheduled for release this coming spring.

On a positive note, this new 2009 Phantom Race 380 shape has been tested to be quite a bit faster both upwind and on the reach compared to current, World Champion, Phantom 380 of 2007/2008. Racers will get even better kit, and Starboard will thus bring into the market a board that otherwise would not have seen the race scene before 2010.

We apologize for all the incident and we hope that by offering to replace the board with the new and faster model in spring, we would continue to keep all Starboard raceboarders happy and ahead of the game.

For those of you who are not currently on the Starboard Phantom Race 380 and considering to purchase one, production has been discontinued of the current model and the new 2009 model is available from Spring onwards.

Tiesda, on behalf of team Starboard

andretsin
14th October 2008, 12:19 AM
Hi, I recived my board last week and I think it has this problem. The serial number is ST8PR38008070166. I'm from Spain. What shall i do to change it? I understood i will have to wait until spring 2009, isn't it? Can I use my board until then? I don't have any tiquet from the shop where i bought it. Shall i get one?

Tiesda You
14th October 2008, 03:29 PM
Hi Andretsin,

Please do get a receipt for your board from the shop. It could be important once the new boards have arrived in Spain. You can use your board until then.

Tiesda

Unregistered
16th October 2008, 09:06 PM
very interesting data on those slots, thats the thing about life always something interesting or new to find out!
oh and sorry for the typos
jeff

Woody
17th October 2008, 01:18 AM
So Jeff, when are you going to get your Phantom? I have mine dialed now, so no more "just beat the Equipe by a second" anymore. haha!

I've shimmed the daggerboard and sanded the gasket, not because of the stiffness, but due to the non skid and paint left on the inside from the factory after painting (maybe someone can put a cover over the slot in the painting/deck grip process to prevent that in the future?).

By the way, I waited a very long time for my Phantom to arrive here in Canada. I hope the same will not be for the 2009 version. My serial number is above 40, so I'm in for the recall.

Unregistered
18th October 2008, 02:32 AM
I just might woody, but its phantom OR...
two weeks in maui....eqiuvalent of two summers of high wind days.

I am looking around for a used board, and maybe just maybe i will make it up to the moosefest, but until then I am happy to read on the net and hear from guys like tbay ray that the phantom is not totally dominating.
Close racing is the best racing. Two people racing the same course, same ability, playing the same shifts and one just ekes out the other as they tacked gybed or played a shift slightly better is good racing.
A guy jumps on a kick ass board and beat the same equal abillity guy by minutes is not good racing, in fact it will discourage people.

I raced my old mistral competition SST against guys with funboards (at the time smaller 160 to 190 small centerboard types,) slaughtered them and really didnt have fun doing it.
so we will see if i can find something that is close , i thoight about the prodigy but well we will see.


thunder bay jeff

Unregistered
18th October 2008, 02:40 PM
Ben Hall used a slotted wing at the 2007 A class cat champs

"I do know that my boat was the fastest boat downwind in heavy air. In one race I passed 35 boats after rounding the weather mark back in 80th. I passed some boats to leeward, some to weather. It felt like an Indy Race, passing right and left on the track."


Also interesting to see a typical 14m A cat sail weighs 5kg. No they're not made out of mononfilm.......

Buy a Phantom now and get two tyos to play with, the 08 and later the 09...tempting

Unregistered
18th October 2008, 07:05 PM
what do you mean buy one now and get two ?? are they selling two for one ??, that'd be nice to get longboard racing back in numbers.

Unregistered
19th October 2008, 04:48 PM
No you've got to give the first one back later (by then it's no longer a new toy). And soon I guess the dealers won't be allowed to sell remaning 08 boards - but if you wave money at them right now you might get 'two new toys to play with'

Woody
20th October 2008, 01:38 AM
Jeff, you can go to Maui any year dude! BUT, you may only be able to buy a Phantom and participate in the CMWC (which is only 4hrs away from you by the way), once in your lifetime....
TBay Ray did have a good regatta at Waconia, but I was spending alot of time adjusting my equipment during the first races (mast track/daggerboard, stance etc). It was the first time I had the Phantom on the water against another longboard. The Phantom is a much better board than his older equipe period. Especially for a guy like me at 210lbs. From my time I have put on the Phantom since the Waconia regatta, there will be no contest with the old boards anymore...I have it pretty dialed now!

Unregistered
20th October 2008, 10:25 AM
we will see woody, will will see,
BWAHHH HA HA ( bela lugosi style in the halloween spirit)
it will take me 4 years,to be able to make the time!!
life is dang busy...
jeff

Unregistered
20th October 2008, 10:29 AM
P.S. when theres no contest, theres no fun.
two sailors equally matched in equipment, only skill and daring will "win(d)" the day!!

IMHO
jeff

Remi
28th October 2008, 01:09 PM
Hi All,

Star-Board will introduce next year a complete new Phantom Race with a new construction. The new shape give you a better and more consistent speed up wind with the dagger board. The deck is totally new with something never see before to help you to get on the rail quickly but also to have power in super light wind when you are not on the rail. So up wind the new shape make great improvement in all condition.
Reaching & downwind the new one get a quicker planning and get a better top end speed with more control. Jibe is more smooth and you keep your speed during all the jibe.

All the best

Unregistered
29th October 2008, 05:18 AM
So will it make all the old boards uncompetitive.
If so will upset quite a few, but probably sell quite a few too.

Remi
29th October 2008, 09:55 AM
Hi Unregistered,

The really good stuff is that the Race-Board do a good come back with the Exocet, Mistral Equipe III 2009 and Star-Board Phantom Race 2009

All the best

WILDWINDSCA
29th October 2008, 10:45 PM
anon poster 31, yes it will probably do both,
i am wondering which group "I" will fall into or if in the end l will care. I was thinking of getting into the longboard thing again .
Years ago I raced and liked it , i say like as a good reagatta had everyone on similar gear .
i was and am still a heavy weight so some reagattas i just got killed by skinny doods.
But that didnt bother me as we bascially were on the same kit.
Sail tech was also changing in those years, i had supplied with my Comp SST a 6.4 semi soft sail, great for One Design racing but very underpowered.
So when i got blown by the next guy on a similar board but with a 7.5 ( one of the bigger sail sizes in its day) i wasnt too happy, and It did not make for good competition.
I ended getting a 7.5.
It ended up being an arms race after that. I see this happen in keelboat PHRF racing BUT at least there a rating handicapping system ( PHRF however is extremely simple.)

So here I have sat, sailed my gear havent raced but wondered if i just might buy a used prodigy comp, an old Mistral One design, or equipe 2.
Now I am not so sure, but I do commend the manufacterers for getting the racing longboard back.
But will these new boards by virtue of being so much longer waterline wise and with bigger daggerboard just blow older stuff away period??
The volume of the 380 will sure help heavir guys like me , but are we again back to an arms race, even before sailor proficiency get involved in the equation.
My buddy keeps trying to get me back into it , but i do not see much of a point going to reagattas (3 to 78 hours driving) and racing without the best kit.
So i may be forced to buy the 380 and get to it .

I would much rather have bought a used design, but these may just be dogs now.

I keep watching reports and we will see.
jeff

WILDWINDSCA
29th October 2008, 10:47 PM
sorry 3 to 7 hours driving , not 78 hours driving...eeeeek

Unregistered
30th October 2008, 03:49 AM
Same for me minimum 2,5 hours, regularly 4-5 hours, sometimes also 7-9 hours, one way! But I enjoy raceboard/longboard racing. You can race nearly at all wind conditions and have fun. And the longboard community is a great social folk.

Unregistered
30th October 2008, 05:24 AM
yes i agree, from what i have heard its always a blast at the regattas, the sailign is fun too, and what could be more fun then hanging with fellow sailors!