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dkeith
13th July 2008, 09:01 PM
Just sold my Go 180 and am looking for something that planes early, goes fast and turns in that order. Not looking for a Formula board. Would love some advice from fellow riders.

My stats:
150 lbs,
advanced to expert sailor
90% of sailing is on a lake
10% ocean

other boards:
12'6" SUP 0-10 knots ( I love it!! forgot how much fun sailing was without foot straps)
94 ltr Trance 15-20 knots
74 ltr acid 20 knots plus

I am looking for a board to fill that all important 10-20 knot hole in my quiver. I am hoping to match this with either a freerace sail such as a GTX or a fast freeride such as a Matrix.

I would therefore appreciate some advice on which board will get me out on the water early but yet keep me there while I am out. Because money is a factor I am considering older boards but might hold on and save up for a new one if the performance difference is that large. The following is a list of the boards I am looking at. If somone could please comment on their suitability for my conditions and weight, relative performance and ideal 2 sail combo I would greatly appreciate it.

Boards I am looking at In chronological order

2005 Compact
2006 138 FType wood
2008 122/133 Futura
2008 122 iSonic (would have to save up for this one)

crazychemical
14th July 2008, 12:34 AM
my home spot is a lake, windconditions there are usually between 10-20 knots and most of us sail 135-150 L boards (the light guys take 120). I have no idea what the compact is and i couldn't go for the Ftype seeing as you said you didn't want a formula. but as a freeride the futura 122, i think, will fill your gap (40+L of floating volume should do the trick). The IS is a great idea if you really want to and it might even be better for your gap seeing as it carries larger sails. but like you say, thats an expensive move to make (you could always look for second hand IS, loads of slalom guys use their IS only one year, sell and buy new stuff).

hope this helps

dkeith
14th July 2008, 12:56 AM
Yup the Futura seems like an amazing board, planes early, top end. I would like to hear from anyone who has ridden one and anybody who has ridden the ftype. My guess is the Ftype will get going earlier but the Futura will be faster, but it would be interesting to hear from someone who has experince with both boards and can provide some idea as to the relative difference between the two.

Out of interest what are you riding, and how would you describe your sailing style?

crazychemical
14th July 2008, 05:01 AM
I Freeride. Depends what winds. I ride a GO139 in 12-17 knots(so my 8.8 and 7.6) (depending the conditions .. flatwater, chop etc) and a flow 284 in 15-26(7.6 and smaller)(or more, i have no smaller board and i want to get to a good level before i invest in a wave board), preferably with chop and a good selection of fins. I tend to go for most top end speed thats why i prefere freeride/slalom boards to formulas.
I also have no funds to get a more speed directed low wind board (if i would, i'd probably go for a futura seeing as slalom boards are more technical and more expensive/fragile), so i stick with my 2 boards for now.

Unregistered
14th July 2008, 06:10 AM
I'm a little heavier than you but found it much easier to pump the 133 onto the plane in marginal winds than the 122 - even with the same size sail.

Unregistered
17th July 2008, 07:23 PM
I had a FT138 and now have a FU133 (but not as a replacement for the FT138!)
I weigh ~ 85Kg

The FU 133 is a nice manouverable board but more like for 14 kts++, below that I prefer (unless close to 14 and very choppy) using my iS133 W85 with a 10.4 /9.5 or 8.7. The iS133 is my replacement for the FT138 and really does a good job.

if you want to go fast, plane early in 8-15 kts -> FT138
towards the lower range of 10-15 kts you will not really have that much fun an a FU133, sure its turny but if you aren't or just barely planing turny just isnt fun anymore...

christophe
18th July 2008, 08:30 PM
which fin do you use with your IS133 W85 and 10.4 ?

It tried a RS6 10.7 with this board, it worked fine in the very light wind

Unregistered
19th July 2008, 01:40 AM
Select RS7 57cm Deep Tuttle

Roger
19th July 2008, 09:52 AM
Hi dkeith,
This is quite a discussion!
Having "loved" the F-Type 138 (and it's predecessor the Free Formula 138) this would be a pretty good option for up to about 15 knots.
Not as good as a formula in < 10 knots, but comes alive in around 10 knots with a
9.5 m2 + rig.
Since you are looking for 10-20 knots, there probably isn't a "one board" solution, but you are on the right track.
Since you are a lightweight at 150 lbs. (68 Kg.) you can probably get a bit better early planing from most of the boards discussed.
I would leave the Compact off your list. It was an attempt to make a one board does everything solution to the "traveling problems" but in my opinion there were too many compromises.
The F-Types are great (wish I still had the FT 138 Wood) but as the others suggest, it's a bit too much like a formula board, and while quite fast in very light winds, it does not have the overall range of the Futura 122/133 or the Isonic 122/133.
I was sorry to have to let my 2007 Isonic 122 go, so a 2007 Is 122 might be a more cost effective possiblility than the 2008 IS 122.
If you think you can wait through another couple of months, there may be some 2008 closeout possibilities, but the Isonic 122 is a very popular board so you may be disappointed.
Hope this helps,

Unregistered
19th July 2008, 06:29 PM
"Since you are looking for 10-20 knots, there probably isn't a "one board" solution, but you are on the right track."

If you 'need' more than one board for 10-20 knots, how many boards and sails does the average sailor 'need' to sail in all conditions?

Roger
19th July 2008, 11:35 PM
Hi Unregistered,
There are boards that do well in 12-18 knots (IS 122, Futura 122, and several others boards in the 115-130 liter range.
There are several boards that do well in 8-12 knots.
So, the answer to your question is most likely 2 boards.
One that does well in 8-14 knots and one that does well in 14-20 knots.
All of this depends also on sailor weight, surface conditions (voodoo chop
etc.)
I am certainly not saying that you cannot sail in 10-20 knots with one board, but
as suggested by the other posters, you are either going to be slogging (not planing)
in the under 13 knots (even with big sails) if your board is on the small side, or you are going to be limiting your performance in 17-20 knots if you have a board that's too large/wide.
There are exceptions (Formula boards being the most notable) but you need to be able to handle a seemingly huge sail (9.0 m2- 11 or 12 m2) to get the full performance from these specialty racing type boards.
If you want to expand this to cover 8 knots to say 30 knots, then probably 3 boards are needed to be comfortably planing throughout this range of windspeeds.
You would also need sails from about 4.0 m2 to 10.0 m2 so probably a minimum of 4 sails to cover 8-30 knots.
It's often better to have a bit of "overlap" in your board/sail/fin quivers as having great conditions, but no gear that really suits those conditions isn't going to be much fun.
The 3 boards/4 rigs for 8-30 knots is the minimum you will need to be reasonably comfortable in all conditions you are likely to find in that wind range.
Of course many of us sail in places that have relatively stable windspeeds and surface conditions, so we can get by with one board that suits those conditions and a couple of sails.
Hope this helps,

Farlo
20th July 2008, 01:41 AM
Hello dkeith,
With your 68 Kgs you don't need much more than a FU 122 or 133 to have fun in the 10-20 Knts range. I'm about the same weight and I've been using a ST-126 for years as my light wind board in similar conditions: 80% lake - 20% sea, wind from 12 to 18 knts most of the tilme, with a 7,3 mē sail and 2 fins. I was not sailing below 12 Knts, but the ST would have taken a larger sail, and moreover the FU's which are much wider. Of course it won't be the most exciting in 8-12 Knts but these conditions are rarely exciting on a lake anyway.

Unregistered
21st July 2008, 01:37 AM
I have a related question if you don't mind me adding on to this thread. Roger, I see you have a Futura 133 and would appreciate your (or others) opinions as I am trying to decide between a Futura 133 or Futura 144.

I am an advanced sailor, 77kg, sail on freshwater lakes and am looking for a board to use with my 8.3 and 7.0 sails.

Thanks,

RC

Roger
21st July 2008, 03:00 AM
Hi RC,
I'd go for the Futura 133.
With your sail sizes (8.3/7.0) and at 77 Kg. (170 Lbs.) I don't think you would find significantly more early planing on the Futura 144.
If you had a 9.0-10.0 m2 rig, then I think the additional width (77.5 vs 76.0 or 1.5 cm) would get you planing earlier, but with the 8.3 as your "big rig" the Futura 133 should get you going within about half a knot of the 144.
Sailing on fresh water is a consideration, for sure, but the additional volume would not help very much without the bigger rig to power it.
You will find that the additional top end range of the 133 is more significant than a minor gain on the bottom end/early planing.
Hope this helps,

Unregistered
21st July 2008, 03:17 AM
Roger,

Thanks a lot for your insightful and quick reply!

Best regards,

RC

Unregistered
21st July 2008, 05:41 PM
Thanks Roger.

A quick check of retail prices means that I'm up for about $13,300, not including board bags, wetsuit, harness, harness lines, roofracks. Ouch. That takes me out of the 'performance' windsurfing game.

pierrec45
21st July 2008, 08:19 PM
> $13k+

Well, there you go. Of course the more gear, the better. Two would be nice for that range, but then twice the costs, twice the stuff to carry, plus wasting time de-rigging and re-rigging as winds change. (The more gear, the more of that.)

Seriously, take up freestyle and aim for about 16-17 knots with new, single gear. Esp. that you already own light- and high-wind gear. This way, when it's only 10-12 knots, for the same new gear, you're underpowered somewhat but you get to practice moves that you will use in the 15-20 knot range. Fun and sport at all times.

> how many boards and sails does the average sailor 'need'
> to sail in all conditions?

You are an expert, so don't go by this criteria. Most guys at the local spot here (a 90% lake-river like you) have multiple gear, but I find that gear gets used mostly to make sailing easier at various conditions (underpowered, easier to gybe, etc.).

Have fun mate,
P.

Roger
21st July 2008, 10:09 PM
Hi Unregistered,
I've said all the way through this that you don't "have to have" 3 boards and 4 rigs!
If you select your boards carefully, and if you sail in one area most of the time, you can easily get by with one or 2 boards and 2 or 3 rigs.
Around 12 knots is the real decision point.
If you want to sail in 12-18 knots, one board and maybe 2 sails will do nicely.
If you want to plane in < 12 knots, that takes specialized and expensive larger gear.
You can choose to not sail in < 12 knots and then you don't need the larger gear.
Same at about 20 knots.
A 100-120 liter board (depends a bit on the sailor's weight) and a 7.5/6.0 m2 sail quiver
and you can have a good time. Might be a little over powered and the board may be a little big at 20 knots, but you can do it.
The posters here have been asking hypothetical questions like "how much gear does it take to cover 10-30 knots".
I've been providing real world answers.
You could go out with a board and sail that is designed for 10 knots of wind.
In 20 knots you might be able to sail sheeted out, and bounding over the chop (I've experienced this many times when the wind speed jumped up) but it would not be fun.
I took a ride in the St. Francis Yacht club RIB safety boat a few years back at Crissy Field.
I was on an appropriately sized rig, but my friend was on gear that was too big when the wind suddenly increased from around 15 knots to well over 20 knots.
I took the big gear and gave my smaller gear to the friend so they could sail back in comfortably.
I spent a good 15-20 min. trying to waterstart and sail back in but the gear and the conditions were just too much.
So, the safety boat came by, I rolled up the gear and took the ride.
So, the bottom line here is that at some point, your big gear becomes too big for you sail it, and at some point your small gear becomes too small for you to effectively sail it.
In either case you need gear more appropriate for the conditions to have any fun.
Hope this helps,

steveC
22nd July 2008, 02:40 AM
No doubt, new windsurfing gear can be an expensive investment. What I've found is that time and patience can be your friend. Each year, I try to target important investments that I need to consider. Over time, you can build an awesome quiver of stuff that doesn't break the bank all at once. Another thing that helps greatly is to keep the stuff you do buy for a long time, and avoid the strong temptation to keep up with the latest fashion.

Lastly, although it doesn't fit with everyone's way of doing things, there's always the credit card or line of credit method of buying things. While one does pay an interest penalty to buy on credit, it does allow one to spread out the payments over time. I bought my first complete windsurfing kit, to include racks, by refinancing my car. Overall, despite the added cost, I never regreted that decision, not for one second.

Unregistered
22nd July 2008, 05:13 AM
Good points Steve. Thanks

dkeith
22nd July 2008, 09:14 AM
Well just when I thought this discussion was not going to happen it suddenly comes alive! Thanks everyone for your feedback.

To Roger in particular since you have used all of the boards that I am talking about. Everyone else is welcome to provide feedback as well.

It seems that my choice now is FT138, FU122, IS122 roughly in order of price. Roger can you please describe the perfect 2 sail combo in terms of sizes for each of these boards and the relative differences i.e planing threshold, max speed, liveliness etc. Considering that I have the 12-6 SUP for non-planing conditions which of these boards will fill that 10 - 20 knot hole. Again keep in mind that when it is a solid 15 I am on my Trance but truth be told it is rarely a solid 15 in the summer here and is usually quite gusty, which is why I refer to the 10-20 knot region. In terms of sailing ability I would rate myself high advanced. Again money is afactor and I can get a FT138 plus two sails for the same price as an IS122 whcih is why I want to get a better idea as to relative performance levels i.e. twice as fast?

Thanks

Duncan

Farlo
22nd July 2008, 03:28 PM
Hi Duncan, I would go for the FU122 with 8~8.5 and 6.5~7 sqm sails. You will have close to IS122 performance with more fun for a reasonable price. At your weight, it will be more comfortable than the FT138 in choppy water or when wind picks up.

Unregistered
23rd July 2008, 04:46 AM
Spend a bit of time sourcing second hand gear and due to the fashion factor you can enjoy yourself for a third of the cost. And less environmental impact. If you want to follow fashion great, enjoy unwrapping it all, but don't complain about the cost.

Roger
23rd July 2008, 10:30 AM
Hi Duncan,
OK, here's the "big" issue here.
The 2005/2006 F-Type 138's are 88 cm wide.
The 2004 Free Formula 138 was 96 cm wide.
These are all very early planing designs.
They will work really well in sub planing to about 14 knots.
You can sail them in alot more wind, but the chop vs the width does not make for a real good combination.
The Futura 122 (71.5 cm wide) and the Isonic 122 (75.0 cm wide) are not going to be much fun and give much planing performance in the < 12 knots range.
How much sailing do you do in the 8-12 knot range?
Below 8 knots is the domain of your 12'6" SUP, right?
So, if you choose the F-Type (I'd look for an F-Type 148 or 2004 Free Formula 138 (wish I'd kept the one I had) due to the extra width) you get early planing performance down below 10 knots.
If you get the Isonic or Futura 122 you have a pretty big hole between 8 knots and about 12 knots.
For early planing performance in light winds (8-12 knots) requires either width; great skills; or both.
I sailed the 2008 Futura 155 (85.0 cm wide) this afternoon with the 2008 7.5 m2 Sailworks Retro and Lessacher Design 36 cm Duo Weed in about 10 knots and was planing most of the time.
Maybe the Futura 155 would be a better choice to fill the gap between 8-10 knots and a solid 15 knots when you can use your Trance.
As to specifics, for the F-Type 138 (88 cm) you could get going very early with a 9.5 m2 rig. The board works pretty well all the way down to about 6.5 m2 but that's a little beyond it's best range. 7.5-9.5 m2 is a more realistic range for this board.
The Isonic 122 works great with an 8.5m2. I was often the only one out planing last year in Bonaire on the Isonic 122 and an 8.5 Sailworks NX4 slm. I could get going in about 11-12 knots.
The 2008 IS 122 may be better but I do not have one to sail this year.
The Futura 122 probably works the best with 6.5-8.5 m2 rigs but again, like the Isonic 122, it's not going to be much fun (unless you have superb pumping skills and super light in weight) in < 12 knots.
Hope this helps,

Unregistered
23rd July 2008, 05:10 PM
Unregistered Post 23, I hear ya, but I was just interested in getting an opinion.

dkeith
24th July 2008, 09:07 AM
Post 25 I agree with you on Post 23. Not sure what the point of that post was except some sort of therapy session for all of us to witness. The point was valid that there is sometimes a lot of hype around new product and that there is good value to be found in buying used gear however there are better ways to express that thought in a public forum. That being said sometimes there are profound differences between new and old gear. Having sailed 27 years myself and having purchased a lot of gear I have experienced this first hand. I think of when I bought the first Go board on spec before it was even fully available. That board was a major change in the industry and for a few hundred dollars less I could have bought a used F2 Xantos Not! My current quiver includes boards that I have bought new and old, depending on where the technology curve was in that discipline at that time.

My current post reflects this issue. For many years wide and short was the vogue but I have been noticing that freeride boards seem to bet getting a little narrower and longer again. I suspect this has to do with adavancements in other areas such as rocker etc. The three boards that I am considering are the FT138, FU 122 and the IS 122 represent possibly a three year difference which is why I am seeking Roger's sage advice on the differences between all them so I can decide where I want to spend my money. He has actually ridden all of them! If post 23 has experience in all these boards then I welcome their advice as well, if not they can hijack another discussion.

To Roger your advice has been great as always. I have a few further questions though. The FT138 seems like it could still get me planing pretty early as I am 150 lbs and have no problems sailing a large rig. My concern with the FT138 is when it is up and planing what is the top end like compared to the other boards. A lot faster, somewhat slower etc. If you could quantify this in anyway it would be helpful. How does this compare to the FU 155? If you were planing in 10 knots on a 7.5 how could I be planing with a 9.0 or 9.5 in 8 knots? Should I be considering this or a FU144? The sail range I was thinking was 9.8 and 8.0 or a 9.0 and a 7.5. Both of these would allow me to jump to my 6.0 after I am overpowered because the larger sails will be freerace sails with lots of range. The IS seems like it probably planes the earliest and is undoubtedly the fastest but like post 23 tried to express in their failed post can you please try and quantify how much of a differencce there actually is between new and old.

Thanks

Duncan

Roger
24th July 2008, 11:18 AM
Hi Duncan,
I knew you were going to "pin me down" on this.
I try to stay objective, and I think board speed is a little more in the
"subjective" realm.
I will try to answer your questions a clearly as I can without speculating.
The Isonic 122 (once there's enough wind to get it planing) is for sure the fastest board on your short list, and at 150 lbs. with good skills and a 9.0 m2 rig you might get it planing at around 10 knots.
The 8.5 m2 NXslm I mentioned is the largest sail I ever put on the 2007 Isonic 122, and I was planing in around 11-12 knots and I'm about 20 lbs. heavier.
The F-Type 138 I had I didn't sail that much because the F-Type 148 was a bit earlier planing. That's why I suggested the FT 148 if you can find one.
The Futura 122/144/155 won't be quite as fast as similar Isonics, but they are alot easier to sail, and very nearly as quick because they are so easy to sail.
I made the issue about the width because to me anyway, getting on to a plane in marginal conditions is made a whole lot easier if you have a wider board.
If you want a speed rating here I'll try.
In < 12 knots, regardless of sail size the F-Type will plane the earliest, making it the fastest in 10 knots unless you can really light up the Is 122.
The wider Is 122 would be the next earliest
The Futura 122 probably won't be much fun in < 12.
Once the wind goes over 12 knots, the speed ratings would be Isonic 122 significantly faster than the F-Type 138, and a little faster than the Futura 122.
At 16-18 knots, the F-Type won't be much fun as it's getting a little too wide for the chop.
The Futura 122 would be best in these windspeeds. Maybe not faster than a well sailed Is 122, but more comfortable for sure.
Hope this helps,

Mike T
24th July 2008, 09:54 PM
Hi Duncan
I see you have a 12-6 SUP board what size sail do you use with that in sup planing winds? I Sup paddle on a 12-6 board when the wind is below 5 knts and then when the wind picks up I put a 7.o wave sail or a 6.6 twin cam on the longboardand freestyle, practice sail transitions and just cruis with no footstraps. When the wind hits 15knts I switch to a 9'6" custom carbon slalom board with the same sails. It's not a modern wide board but it's extreamly fast in the 15 to 25knt range. So with a standup board you have the light wind covered from 5 to 15knts. You can have alot of fun and keep the balance and transitoins skills tuned up in light winds and then focus on gear for 15 plus knots. Just my two cents Good luck and Warm winds. Mike

dkeith
26th July 2008, 08:50 AM
Mike I presently use a 6.0 on my SUP when I am flatwater sailing and in the one or two times I have tried it in waves I have used a 5.2 or 4.7. I find the board glides so easily that it does not need a large sail. That combined with the fact that it does not really plane makes me question the use of larger sail. That being said I presently jump from my 6.0 wave sail to a 9.0 freerace sail in my quiver and the 9.0 on the SUP seems all wrong. Although I could ride my SUP all the way to 15 knots and probably more there is way too much rocker to give this board the speed I am looking for. Instead this board covers the < 8 - 10 knot range and I enjoy it very much. Kudos to Starboard on another excellent product.

To Roger thanks for your patience. Your last post makes me think that maybe I should be considering between an IS122 and a FU144 or FU155 your thoughts please

Roger
26th July 2008, 09:15 AM
Hi Duncan,
If what your really want is a board that's good in 10-15 knots, then yes, the Is 122;
Futura 144/155 make sense.
If you want a board for < 10 knots, then look at the wider FT 138/148.
The F-Types were fairly fast in the light winds because they light up early and the width helps carry them through lulls.
The narrower the board, the more the lulls are likely to affect it.
Once you get to 12 knots then of course the IS 122 is going to be the fastest.
How much faster....... maybe 2-3 knots on the top end vs the Futura 122, maybe
4-6 knots faster than the F-Types, but not at the lower end of the wind spectrum.
It's a tough decision I know, and I almost don't want to make such subjective comments because your sails/skills/conditions could easily "skew" what I suggest either for better or for worse.
Hope this helps,

Mike T
31st July 2008, 02:38 AM
Hi Duncan,
I agree with you on putting a 9.0sqm on a stand-up board, that would not be good match that is for sure. But something to think about is trying a 7.5 or 8.0 on a Futura 155. A buddy of mine sails a Futura 155 with a 7.5 and gets it planing in about 10 to 12knts of wind. He has been sailing the SB 155 Formula so he has the whole wide board thing dialed in. He pumps up on a plane in nothing and just keeps going. I would probably fill the sail gap between the 6.0 and the 9.0 and see if you could demo a couple of boards. I was amazed when I tried my friend Futura 155 with his 7.5sqm sail. It took me a few trys to get use to the wide board but once I figured out how to get it to plane off the wind with a few pumps and then drive it back up wind it was a blast. I've been riding narrow boards for a long time so the transition to the modern wide shapes takes some getting use too. My Slalom board is 9'6" x 22" wide, I've been playing around with a Hypersonic 133 218X77cm Wide with a 7.0sqm sail but I've only had a couple of brief runs on it. I wish I could tell you what wind speed I got it planing at but just haven't had enough time out on it to figure that out. The weather here hasn't been to good for sailing to much rain and lightning. Well good luck in your quest. Mike

Post 23
31st July 2008, 04:37 AM
Duncan , I thought it was pretty clear our little side discussion sparked by Rogers (quite correct) comments weren't directed at you. Therapy I love that, like "am I mad to spend this much on gear ?". Yeah I've certainly wondered that at times, but still tell would be w/surfers it's only as expensive as you want to make it.

Anyway F122 is great 13-20 but I found it frustrating under that. I've spent an afternoon thinking this is a nice summer breeze I should be blasting, and I've got to work like crazy to get up for the occasional run. Unless you're happy for plenty of stop/start I wouldn't go under 75cm (F133).

prpa
2nd August 2008, 04:32 AM
(sorry for jumping in Your topic, but .... )

Hi Rogger & others

Can you suggest me board for light wind ~8-12 knots, because I would like
to get 1 board to cover this gap. Because during my vacation this spot more
less every day have conditions like that.

My specs: - 95 kg heavy / 190 cm hight
My Skil: - planing in footstraps and carve gibe
My goald: - freride planing

Board: - Futura 133
Sails: - 6.0 Gaastra Swift / 7.5 Neil Pride V6 / 9.0 Simmer 3-XC
Fins: - 48 cm / 52 cm

What will be good sugestion for Me Futura 155? Is there some board like F-type
in production or in plans for next year?

What will be size of the sail necessary to get planing according to my weight (95kg)?

Roger
2nd August 2008, 08:38 AM
Hi prpa,
I would suggest you look for an Apollo, or an Isonic 150.
The Apollo is 160 liters and 100 cm wide.
The Isonic 150 is 150 liters and 93 cm wide.
I would also suggest a 10.0-11.0 m2 free race rig (Sailworks Retro, Gaastra GTX, NP V8, Severne Overdrive/Gator.
Without the wide board and big sail, at your weight, I'm afraid you'll be in the "sub planing" realm under 10 knots.
Hope this helps,

prpa
5th August 2008, 05:12 AM
Hi Rogger
thanks a lot for your quick replay. I was planing to buy 2nd hand sail from Formula
guys in my region (they change sails every 1-2 years, so I can get 11-12m2 for
not so much big money).
I plan to keep my Futura 133, and get this bigger board for my holidays location.

Do you think that SB should introduce this option in freerace kind of board, like before?
(Before SB had Carve & S-type & F-type) now >> only Futura

Thanks again
Alen

Roger
5th August 2008, 08:18 AM
Hi Alen,
Ummmm.... you want to buy a formula racing sail, but do you want to get the really expensive mast, use an adjustable outhaul, have alot of cams, or....... do you just want to get planing soonest?
Big difference between a full on Formula Race sail...550 100% carbon mast, best to have a 100% carbon wide rear boom, best to have an adjustable outhaul system........
and a 9.5-11.0 m2 Free Race sail like the ones I suggested before.
Probably a shorter, less expensive mast, no requirement for full carbon wide back end boom, adjustable outhaul if you like, OK if you don't like, and a lot less pumping to get planing early.
Why..... the free race designs are about low end power and early planing....
The top level formula race sails are about extending the range of the sail to 20 knots
+.
So, 2 completely different design philosophies.
I do not know if Starboard needs to bring back a "free race" type board.
I do not believe the S-Types or the F-Types were really big in sales, and the company
cannot keep making all sorts of models to suit all sorts of sailors, if they do not sell well enough to recover the cost to develop and tool up to make them.
Hope this helps,

pierrec45
5th August 2008, 04:29 PM
"Since you are looking for 10-20 knots, there probably isn't a "one board" solution, but you are on the right track."

If you 'need' more than one board for 10-20 knots, how many boards and sails does the average sailor 'need' to sail in all conditions?

Bingo! Where does it stop really?

prpa
6th August 2008, 04:46 AM
Hi Roger
thanks a lot for your point of view on Free race/Formula sails, I think I learned
something new.
Idea from my side was simply financial, in my region I can find 2nd hand 2 years old
Sail11-12m2+100%CMast+Boom+Extension for arround 900 Euro, which is maybe
price of new only the carbon boom, and Freerace sails so big are realy reare to find.

Thanks, Alen

Unregistered
7th August 2008, 03:45 AM
Hi Alen,
..... the free race designs are about low end power and early planing....
The top level formula race sails are about extending the range of the sail to 20 knots
+.
,

Now that matches what I thought I knew, but with FOD it's been stated the use of overdrive was for a winder wind range. When I've had a chance to go out on such big gear in those winds I must admit I've opted for something more manageable so I have no direct experience of 11M freerace v race at 20knots plus,

Unregistered
7th August 2008, 03:58 AM
Bingo! Where does it stop really?

You might say 80/72/68/66/64/62/60 - so make that seven.

Or you could say with one long board.

Grant
7th August 2008, 07:44 PM
Here's my top speeds (GPS) on some of the boards under consideration. Free Formula 138 (96 cm. wide) with a 20.5 inch True Ames weed skeg - 35.1 m.p.h. iSonic 122 with a 17 inch True Ames weed skeg, 33.9 m.p.h. - both with a Retro 8.5. The FF138 is a true early planer and is quite fast for a board of this width.

Of the twelve boards I presently own the Free Formula 138 and iSonic 101 are two of my favourites. My fastest board to date is the iSonic 87, but I don't get to sail it very often.

Cheers,

Grant