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View Full Version : Why Starboard is keeping mum on Bjorn winning on Starboard ?


Polis
21st August 2008, 02:40 PM
when Steve Allen won the Formula World in 2006 although he is not from Starboard team, Starboard was gladly telling the whole world about its board (160) powress.

Now that Bjorn (not team rider too) won the latest PWA slalom event on Starboard, Starboard is keeping mum......

Not to upset AA or T1 ?

geo
21st August 2008, 04:59 PM
My guess is Bjorn's intentions are still unclear.
It seems he wanted to test whether he was not winning because of the boards, or because of himself. Indeed he won in Alacati, but AA made quite a few unusual mistakes, so one could guess any of the following:
- Bjorn still can't tell;
- Bjorn understood how to make the next round of T1 boards race winning, and he will be loyal to his historical board designer;
- Bjorn understood T1 boards are well worth what AA is riding and will stay with T1;
- of course, Bjorn will decide to change board supplier, and probably that will be Starboard;
- else;
- any mix of the above.

In any case, it seems clear he didn't sign with Starboard yet. We will see, and will be fun to see.

geo
21st August 2008, 08:36 PM
Well from the T1 site it is clear that Bjorn Dunkerbeck and Peter Thommen aren't going to work together in the future. End of an age. It will be interesting to see what Bjorn will choose. My bet is on Starboard.

nonopr
21st August 2008, 10:25 PM
Well from the T1 site it is clear that Bjorn Dunkerbeck and Peter Thommen aren't going to work together in the future. End of an age. It will be interesting to see what Bjorn will choose. My bet is on Starboard.

Are you kidding me. Starboard is the Company who chooses his team members, not Bjorn. He used to be the 11 time world champion but that does not mean he can go to Svein or who ever is the team manager and force them to hire him. Will be a great addition to the team, but there is younger team members that can be greatfull of the extra love.
Just my One cent.
Cheers

geo
22nd August 2008, 12:57 AM
May be. It would still be possible for Bjorn to ride iSonics if he likes to. He already did. By the way, the same reasoning of yours could apply as well to any of the big brands, leaving Bjorn "free to choose".
We will see, and it will be interesting.

crazychemical
22nd August 2008, 01:12 AM
he may not be able to force them, but just the fact that he's The Dukerbeck, the man, the legend, is good enough for probably any boardbrand. If you can get a legend in your team you don't say NO to the name. The PR and R&D allone make it worth while for any company. It's like saying no to a top footsie player just cuz he isn't 23 anymore.

Unregistered
22nd August 2008, 01:42 AM
Well,
I think He has the money to buy sone ISonics if He wants to. So this is another useless discussion.

Taty Frans
22nd August 2008, 04:00 AM
Hi All,

In my opinion I would rather have Antoine as the top racers for Starboard and Bjorn on either Jp or Tabou or Fanatic as this will be a better competition for both of these guys.

Years and Years go Bjorn and Antoine always did compete against each other and watching them back again fighting for the top to me is like watching the old videos again.

Bjorn is a legend and respect is what we have to give to him.

Antoine, prove that he can beat anyone in any conditions Formula, Speed, slalom. He's a cool guy and to have him on Starboard and winning these last two slalom titles means alot for him and I feel that he deserves these titles.

So whatever desision starboard takes I'll respect.

But to me Antoine and Kevin can do the job as a to keep STARBOARD on top of the racing.

Taty Frans NB-9

Svein Rasmussen
22nd August 2008, 10:00 AM
Hi all.

Bjoern is the most winning athlete in the history of sports, 12 world championship titles in a row. When discussing potential opportunities to work with the best windsurfer ever to put his foot on planet earth until date, Starboard certainly is flattered.
What does the future hold? time will most certainly tell!

Svein

Unregistered
22nd August 2008, 01:08 PM
Bjorn may be the most successful in racing but - you cant buy style.

Both KP and AA run circles around him when you look at overall sailing talent - ie ability to wave sail (with style) AND race really well.

Bjorn is a racing (and was a jumping) machine

His wave sailing was always really ugly to watch - apart from some pretty cool wave 360s occasionally.

In my opinion this makes him less than the greatest windsurfer ever...

At this point in time someone like taty who can race, throw double forwards and has an INCREDIBLE freestyle repertoire has way more all round abilities than Bjorn. Taty is a far more complete athlete...

namreh
22nd August 2008, 02:59 PM
At this point in time someone like taty who can race, throw double forwards and has an INCREDIBLE freestyle repertoire has way more all round abilities than Bjorn. Taty is a far more complete athlete...

Check his pwaprofile (yep wave champion AND first freestyle champion)... Next year he will become 40 years old! I think it's normal that he can't get up anymore with the 18 years old freestyle guys... Or could you when you are 39? ;-)


pwa profile:
"He is twelve-fold PWA Overall World Champion (1988-1999), twelve-fold PWA Race World Champion (1988-1999) and seven-fold PWA Wave World Champion (1990, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1999, 2001). In addition, he won the PWA Freestyle World Championships in 1998 as well as the PWA Speed World Championships in 1994 and has scored more than 100 single PWA World Cup victories."

viking
22nd August 2008, 03:42 PM
If he had no "style", how could he won 7 wave titles - including a victory at the Aloha Classic - in front of people like Naish and Polakow? Not easy to have the "style" when you weight 100kg...

In the case of Bjorn, his titles speak for him, and nobody can argue that he is not one of the 2 best windsurfers ever - it can be discussed if the greatest is Bjorn or Robby, Bjorn has more titles but Robby did not have too much titles available to win at the beginning, both of them dominated 11 years (1976-1987 and 1988-1999)

Unregistered
22nd August 2008, 06:17 PM
Robby has way more style today than Bjorn ever had.

Style is undefinable and will always be a matter of opinion - sure Bjorn can race and looks good doing it.

Comparing across eras - for my Money Bjorn's wave sailing style was never close to your Ciscos, Naish's, Polakows , Kalamas, both Angulos, Pat Redmans, Dave Sheens, Boujmaas , Jaeger Stones, and many more.

Sure - give credit for squeeezing an extra .003% speed out of the back leg on the last slalom leg reach - and being able to handle the pressure of fleet starts and finishes. For wavesailing - bjorn was winning by being mobile and making the moves consistently. It was never done with style - hence the name - the machine.

but For me - style is the essence of the sailor - and where greatness can be found. Josh Stone has it, Kauli's got it - Bjorn doesnt.

ugly
22nd August 2008, 06:36 PM
Bjorn's style is winning. What's your style?

Unregistered
22nd August 2008, 08:32 PM
I am not here to discuss my style. I dont think anyone would be interested.

Back on topic:

As a racer - Today - for sure he is the best or close.

As a legend - no argument there - although you have to ask yourself the deeper question- which direction did the sport go as that legend was being written ? - and why?

As an all round sailor that can sail freestyle , waves AND Race - today there are far more complete sailors. Back in the 90s he was the all round best sailor - although its no secret his wavesailing was never pretty to watch.

AS a sailor with style that crew would seek to emulate -that have influenced how the next generation rides - look to Polakows , Naishes abd Ciscos - you rarely (or never) hear Dunkerbeck mentioned as an influence to the next wave of amazing talent coming through.

As a board developer - well recent events have proven there are better out there too. And they are already riding with SB. Probably within their rights to be a bit sore to see their hard work and loyalty sold on to DB. But igues DB has as much right as anyone to buy an Isonic..Great publicity for the SB though - you just cant buy that sort of exposure!

And dont Thommen look silly right now ! -especially when Thommen is all about DB - they have egg on their face - what does that say about the style in which you treat your board sponsor of many years?

steveC
23rd August 2008, 02:29 AM
From Thommen's most recent comments at his website, it appears that the close relationship that they shared for many years is now over. Understandably, Thommen is a bit stung, but no doubt that Barry Spanier felt similarly when Bjorn chose a different sail designer while at NP, as I'm sure that strong fruitful relationships over time often include a personal dimension too. I don't know if Bjorn's change from NP to North included a similar kind of abandonment for the folks at NP, but seemingly Bjorn isn't bashful about making major changes when it might be in his interest. Really, it must be remembered that windsurfing is Bjorn's job and career, and he's much like many folks out there that make changes in their careers or the companies they work for good reasons.

From Svein's comments, it's my impression that he could certainly find some lift and leverage with Bjorn teaming up with Starboard. I don't know what kind of ripple affect might occur amoung other top team members, but that's a different issue because there is always going to be change in the mix over time. Without question, Svein's decision to bring Antoine into the fold has proven to be quite valuable, and from what all us normal folks can see, Kevin is still strongly behind the brand.

Time will likely tell us a lot more. The thing I really wonder about, if Bjorn does team up with Starboard, is what role(s) would he play overall for the brand? Really, there's much more to it than just the competition and racing side of the picture. Just looking at the situation with Diaz's recent signing with Starboard, there's a lot of complexity and purpose involved. From Diaz's interview (a very good one I might add) he going to be offering some real core strength to the brand that it's tough to duplicate.

viking
23rd August 2008, 10:56 AM
Barry Spanier left NP long time before Bjorn did!

"you rarely (or never) hear Dunkerbeck mentioned as an influence to the next wave of amazing talent coming through"

Fernandez, Ceballos, all the pozo crew, it is not neglectable...

The guy who has the right style is the guy who wins!

Unregistered
23rd August 2008, 11:18 AM
If on SB -i could see value in Bjorn match testing with Antoine on similar shapes - that way you have 2 similar riders (power gorillas) to make some interesting board speed conclusions from. But then again that approach to development has been done to death - perhaps with only marginal gains.

But remember - these guys are very different from the normal sailor in size and strength.


Right now you have AA and KP who are both different style and scale riders - one 80 kg the other 105 kg plus.

Unregistered
23rd August 2008, 12:13 PM
what boards is Bjorn riding at Karpathos?

steveC
23rd August 2008, 02:56 PM
viking,

I don't know how long that you been around windsurfing, but Spanier was sort of cast off by Bjorn when he suddenly chose to go with a different sail designer (NP's current sail designer). Not that long after, Spanier left NP and moved to Gaastra along with the other key sailors on "The Team" (Phil McGain, Kevin and Matt Pritchard, to include Scott Fenton). As things proved out, Kevin riding Barry's sails and Mike Zajicek's boards (badged as Bics) won the World Cup in 2000, ultimately beating Bjorn and ending his domination of Slalom Racing. Truly, an interesting turn of events overall. But unfortunately for Kevin, the PWA bailed from Slalom after his 2000 win.

viking
23rd August 2008, 05:37 PM
You forgot there was Rosenblad between Spanier and the actual designer. NR did the RX1 and RX2, no?

geo
23rd August 2008, 07:23 PM
I think that NR designed the VX series and Barry Spanier the RX's.

In my view it could be worth to have BD in any manufacturer's team, was it just to seize him from the competition. Not sure how possible team mates would like to be in BD's same team, anyhow. Probably the new "production materials" rules would make that a bit easier.
As for Thommen, now it shows clearly it was a mistake to rely that much on one single man.

nonopr
23rd August 2008, 07:35 PM
In reference to Post #20.
Mike Zajicek, Still doing his thing and producing very, very fast boards but do to the rules on the slalom 42, he has taken a back seat in all these. I wonder if he is colaborating with any board company these days. By far the fastest board I still have in my arsenal is a 56cm wide and 246cm long slalom board. He made for me about a 1 1/2 years ago.

steveC
24th August 2008, 01:51 AM
viking,

You know, you could be quite right about NP designers after Spanier. I've never been a real fan of NPs, so I have to admit to being a bit sketchy on some of the details. I have to say, just off the top, that I can't even recollect the name of NP's current sail designer. That's why I kind of skated the issue in my earlier post.

Nonopr,

Prior to the demise of PWA Slalom after the 2000 year, many pros were riding customs badged as some of the big production brands. One of the more interesting ones that I've seen was back in 1995 at the Maui NP shop. It was one of Matt Pritchard's used F2 boards with Thommen's name over it, but ironically, the board was made and signed by Zajicek.

However, with the PWAs decision to limit racing to only the actual production brands approved by the ISAF, its my understanding that Mike's effort to pursue ISAF approvals has been limited to his formula boards. Although I don't know for sure, I don't think that Mike is working directly with any board company now. I think his earlier collaboration with Bic was the last occasion.

I have to agree with you about Mike's ability to make incredibly fast designs. Actually my most recent Mike's Lab is from the same timeframe as yours (made in late Fall 2006). It's just a tad wider and longer though, at about 57cm x 249cm.

Unregistered
24th August 2008, 02:38 PM
what boards is "dork on boad" riding in karpathos"?

viking
24th August 2008, 05:30 PM
For speed, I think he is riding a custom, from who, I do not know

Unregistered
25th August 2008, 12:17 AM
Barry Spanier designed the VX series and at least the Z1 for NP. The RX I believe started with Niels Rosenbad.

Thorsten
26th August 2008, 11:43 PM
For speed, I think he is riding a custom, from who, I do not know

Proof normally, but he had some small iSonics in his quiver too. ;)

He won Karpathos and is the new european champion!

Rave On
27th August 2008, 12:04 AM
And finally, Robert Stroj The RS1 thru RS6 and RS Racing - Success? I'd say so!

Unregistered
29th August 2008, 07:40 PM
dunker bunker is on the front page well behind A2 int the 1st picture then clearly advertised as number 2 in front of KP in the second picture.
dunkerbeck aka :"d-bunker"
is he perhaps d bunking the starboard myth???
hmmm time will tell,
starboards getting so big these days , i can see them as becoming the new mistral.the way
mistral was years back.
but there is always backlash when your the big kid on the block. Then your seen as the "McDonalds" of windsurf boards .
and then only kooks will ride them at kanaha.
careful starboard.

Unregistered
30th August 2008, 10:46 AM
i think it's only a matter of "when" the Press release will be released regarding Bjorn joining *board

viking
30th August 2008, 11:05 AM
Bjorn won in Karpathos too, and without Starboard this time, and without mistake from AA. He looks in good shape by those times, and surely he regained a lot of confidence which is so important at this level.

mim
3rd September 2008, 05:11 AM
I watched the speed wolrd cup on karpathos live and it was really good. He had his Thommen Speed special.

This year the karpathos event was not that good since there was not such a strong all the time...one day there was 8-10 bft but that was exception.

Btw the discussion about the style of Dunkerbeck...it has no sense, you have to think about that the guys you are comparing him with are much younger and siling modern boards and sails...and actually in his time he brought a lot of innovation in windsurfing, and he is a legend and allways will be.

No doubt there is a lot of other peaple with a huge versatility, but that is not the question. they might become a legend too, but now they just good riders (some of them are very good).

I also have to say that he is a bit strange...every PWA rider is usually rigging himself but Dunki has always two guy with him to help...but it is fairly OK from my point of view.

What I wanted to say is that he brought a big popularity to this sport, and everywhere he is there is a action. I would never say that having a BD in Starboard is not a good thing...it is a perfect thing. The same as in Formula, let all have te same tools and show their ability (too extreme I know...but I would be interested whatching the fight of these two AA x BD).

Cheers Michal.

Thorsten
4th September 2008, 12:44 AM
I watched the speed wolrd cup on karpathos live and it was really good. He had his Thommen Speed special.



Hi Michal,

Bjørn had no Thommen Board on Karpathos! Only Proof Custom Mades (by Carlos Sosa) and Starboard Production Boards up to 111, nothing more.
In turkey he only had Starboards iSonic 111, 122 and 133. Absolute no plan b, no T1 in the quiver.

BR

Th.

mim
4th September 2008, 02:51 AM
Hi Thorsten,

karpathos is not turkey. And I was not exactly close to the board, but I really think he also had a Thommen there. Definetely there was no SB under his feet.
But of course I can be wrong.

The point is that it was really good and scary just watching.

ciao Michal.

Thorsten
4th September 2008, 12:05 PM
Hi Thorsten,

karpathos is not turkey. And I was not exactly close to the board, but I really think he also had a Thommen there. Definetely there was no SB under his feet.
But of course I can be wrong.

The point is that it was really good and scary just watching.

ciao Michal.

Hi Michal,

I packed his bags at the airport (turkey and karpathos), so I def. know what he has in his quiver... ;)

Cheers

Thorsten

mim
4th September 2008, 03:21 PM
OK,

I surrender, you were closer!
But it didn't look like starboard on the days I was watching...maybe the custom one.

Sorry for mis-info.

Ciao Michal.

superidis
4th September 2008, 04:26 PM
Hi to everybody,

Since yesterday, it's official that Bjorn is no longer sponsored by Thommen T1 boards, it remains to be seen what his next move will be for the upcoming PWA Super Grand Slam in Sylt, from 26 September – 5 October.
Personally I believe that with Dunckerbeck in it's roster Starboard will devastate the slalom - speed podium apart from the marketing and R&D advantage, still I have some doubts about his plans as I think that he must had come to an agreement with his upcoming sponsor before Alcati and if Starboard is the one then I see no reason for keeping it away from the press.
I wouldn't be surprised if we see him with a brand from the past.......

Cheers

Unregistered
4th September 2008, 06:24 PM
Hi to everybody,

I wouldn't be surprised if we see him with a brand from the past.......

Cheers

Windglider?

Anowan
5th September 2008, 05:30 AM
Windsurfer !!!

geo
5th September 2008, 12:41 PM
Of course F2 just lost Finian Maynard, but it seems it was in financial troubles and I don't think hiring BD would be at no financial effort. On the other hand, BD sailing with the old badge would probably have a strong marketing impact, at least for people that mind about such things. We will see...

superidis
5th September 2008, 03:14 PM
F2 had a recent Distributor meeting in Austria showing a new face after the recent financial problems and the will to reclaim their past reputation and success. I bet that they are in need of a big name so that they can promote their 2009 range and the future of the company.
We will see soon...

nonopr
9th September 2008, 11:29 PM
Dunkerbeck Leaves Thommen
03.09.08 -
Shock news as Bjorn Dunkerbeck leaves Thommen T1 Boards.

Cruising to the event win in Alacati
One of windsurfing’s most enduring partnerships has come to an end with the announcement that Bjorn Dunkerbeck has split from his long-time friend and shaper, Peter Thommen.

The move comes after Dunkerbeck sailed to victory on Starboard’s isonic boards at the 2008 PWA Alacati World Cup. Peter Thommen commented:

“ I am stunned by his sudden choice to switch gear mid season. I cannot but close a chapter – not only in my professional life, but in windsurfing’s history books as well. Yet there is always a new beginning; change is good. I am not one clinging onto times and memories past…”

At present, the Dunkerbeck camp has not announced a new board sponsor for the upcoming PWA Super Grand Slam in Sylt, from 26 September – 5 October.

PWA / Andrew Buchanan

Unregistered
10th September 2008, 12:27 AM
dunkerbeck "camp"??
camp, ( tents and people lounging around the fire) is that the one behind cassanovas on wednesday nights , with big ole dunker cutting a rug inside!!??
starboards already has a big dream team , no need for dunker bunker
i like starboard but they are becoming the big guy on the block, too many dream team memebers too many riders , getting homogenous .
what i mean is although their products are very innovative they risk becoming the mcdonalds of boards..
so far IMHO as they are so innovative they are avoiding that risk.
but alot of people are looking for the alternative just as they are seen as alternatives , RRDs, tabous,etc etc
just my humble opinion of course,. and i am sure to some hogwash!

Unregistered
11th September 2008, 10:29 PM
Style is undefinable and will always be a matter of opinion ...........
.....................but For me - style is the essence of the sailor - and where greatness can be found. Josh Stone has it, Kauli's got it - Bjorn doesnt.


So greatness in your opinion can't be defined and only exists in the opinion of the observer. It seems the majority of windsurfers in the world have the opinion that Bjorn is the Greatest Competative sailor ever. Sorry that your opinion is different.

come contest time in wavesailing when the heat starts, style doesn't count for much, scoring points on the wave does. In big surf, with big wind, I've seen Bjorn carve deep, come vertical up the face and launch some of the hugest ariels I've ever seen. His physical size gives him some advantage in racing, but is a handicap for lighter wind wavesailing. Even so he never complains when in heats with guys 30kg lighter. He has shown that we is a superb all-around sailor and not just a wave specialist. Bjorn, Robbie, and Kevin have proved that they can win no matter the discipline, while Jason, Josh and Kauli never moved beyond their specialty of wavesailing. To me watching Bjorn jibe at 30 knts in confused seas with 30 sailors on his tail has as much style as executing a perfect huge backloop or high stalled forward.

Svein Rasmussen
16th September 2008, 11:52 AM
Hi all.

Great thread.

Style is always a fun and subjective matter .
Certainly lots of riders are good at maybe Starboard tack wave riding at Hookipa and other nice similar waves. But how many of those riders have enough style to get through the first round in onshore Sylt conditions. How many of the currently best wave riders have any style in slalom, can they get over the start line in style? Can they get around the jibing mark in style? Can they show any style in speed sailing ? Did they compete with 80 other sailors in triangle events and show any style there? Did they ever win a race in style? Did they actually even compete ever in anything else than one single discipline , or possible 2 ? If they had competed in more disciplines , they would have realized how hard it is to spend time not only training for waves , but also be the best in racing.
Overall style is an interesting subject and to be the overall best Windsurfer ever, I can not see many choices looking back the last 25 years.

Thanks

nonopr
16th September 2008, 05:30 PM
Bjorn D. For President. Thanks to SR.
BY the way the Surf Expo Booth looked great but in my opinion was missing how big Starboard is around the world.
Still, got to see in person the new 133 Isonic and the Kode, No speed boards in the show range also no Apollo.

WILDWINDSCA
19th September 2008, 02:56 PM
Well not to look like i am pandering to you Svein but you point is very good. But away from bjorn and back to the average joe in regards to all around style. And i think a point of view that many can learn from especially the striving amateur thats hit a plateau.
And i might add arent all of us NON pros amatuers??, and i am sure we all strive to get better!
The trap however is this.
For good or ill, the glamourous aspects of the sport , attract me and most I am sure like
a magnet.
The pictures of pros hitting the lip, doing flakas, and speed trials at 40 knots , sell magazines and hype the sport . BUT just might depress the average to advanced windsurfer trying to get better.
Take a guy like me, a 40 year old something,windsurfing
since 1982.
My 1st board was a windsurfer rocket.
Now years later its Maui "the mecca" big wind waves , rental gear all set up to kick ass and chew bubble gum .
....................aaaand the place has left me sore tired and depressed on the beach after a week of solid wind and wave, and i am hammered.
Thinking as i watch guys effortlessly pull a bottom turn and hit the lip that, well i just suck at windsurfing.
I am no good.
Much later i am at camp on my old formula 155 and an 9.0 and cant plane. I stay on the water , i enjoy sailing backwards, noseriding . Dropping the boom and sailing with my legs over the side of the board. Or just watching the cool water curl around my toes
Doing my best or worst at a impropt bit of freestyle, with a slowly forming smile.
I then realized in Maui i was trying to be a specialist, and at that time i
was concentrating on too narrow a windsurf focus.

I think of the times i sailed on old mistral comp SST, in a regattas in 7 knots.
Centreboard down railing the board for all the height you could get, feet in the beating strap, the downwind glide working angles then pivot gybing around the leeward mark.
totally tactical in 7 knots of wind, who needs 30!!
Or like many here funboarded it across the lake to the beach. Me with with a cooler strapped to the back.
Now I think of the all around things i have done windsurfing and say well i am accomplished, no i am not in the top 10 percent but i have some style.

All around style, most windsurfers out there have it and its damn Ok.

shredulato

Taka
19th September 2008, 09:08 PM
Hi all,

PWA Sylt will be coming from Sep 26th. What does everybody think what's board Bjorn will use there?? Will he use STARBOARD again????? It's exciting matter !!!
Someone has information??

Unregistered
20th September 2008, 07:15 PM
He will be riding iSonics at Sylt.

Screamer
20th September 2008, 10:10 PM
Posters #45 and Svein

Spot on

PS I bet Svein is grinning right now, with Bjorn among team riders ;)

Polis
21st September 2008, 03:13 PM
Since BD has finally won a slalom title in AA's peak era, he will be likely on the same Isonics...


Why fix it, if it ain't broke ??

nonopr
21st September 2008, 09:37 PM
Rumors are: he sign with Starboard already. Let see if he has Tiki Man stickers in his sails..........Sylt

viking
22nd September 2008, 03:39 PM
I hope for Starboard that Bjorn does not have any tiki in his sail in Luderitz...

Unregistered
27th September 2008, 02:19 AM
I saw BD at Karpathos, hes a legend, no doubt about that! But I would never sponsered him if I were Starboards CEO. Why? Because he had absolute no carisma!!!!!! Looked like he was in someones funeral!

mark h
27th September 2008, 03:27 AM
I saw BD at Karpathos, hes a legend, no doubt about that! But I would never sponsered him if I were Starboards CEO. Why? Because he had absolute no carisma!!!!!! Looked like he was in someones funeral!

WHAT A STUPID STATEMENT!!!!

Like you said, "you saw him". Had you taken the time to "speak" to him you would have found him to be a highly approachable, regular guy, despite being one of the worlds most sucsessfully sportsman.

When on a mission and all is at stake, the top flight athelets (regardless of which sport) are "mentally" some where else. There not going to be walking around grinning like a Cheshire cat. I did'nt see to many competitors at the recent olympic showing "carisma" prior to events, as they where consentrating on the events ahead.

I'm always amazes how the disrespectfull comments are from people reluctant to sign in, why? Its only words!!!

Unregistered
27th September 2008, 03:49 AM
Maybe the word "saw" wasnt right to use. I was there all week and he had absolute no carisma. If that has nothing to do, you have no insight in the world of sport/buisiness!
David Beckham is the most saughtafter footballer in the world and an icon for many. Do you really think that is just because of his football skills??????????? Wake up!!!!

Unregistered
27th September 2008, 04:29 AM
David Beckham is the most saughtafter footballer in the world and an icon for many. Do you really think that is just because of his football skills??????????? Wake up!!!!

David Beckman ?????? You have chosen the world´s greatest dickhead !!!

Tim Fast
27th September 2008, 05:08 AM
I was in Karpathos too , this year and the years before.

Dunki was there to win the event and he did !! This is due to his absolutely (110%) professional attitude to his sport. No one should blame him for this ....

On the other it is very easy to get in direct contact with him (during some breaks, of course only) and I can assure you can have really nice, open and friendly chats with him.

I think any team can be very grateful and proud to have him as a team member.

I am curious to see his influence on the Starboard prodcuts next year.

Cheers

Tim

Unregistered
27th September 2008, 05:24 AM
He won, but as Antonie said, he was faster than Bjorn(with a smile on his face).

Unregistered
27th September 2008, 05:30 AM
He is right, Antonie Albeau was the fastet man on Karpathos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

mark h
27th September 2008, 05:59 AM
Maybe the word "saw" wasnt right to use. I was there all week and he had absolute no carisma. If that has nothing to do, you have no insight in the world of sport/buisiness!
David Beckham is the most saughtafter footballer in the world and an icon for many. Do you really think that is just because of his football skills??????????? Wake up!!!!


Right!! so out of all the worlds top sportsmans you could have chosen from, you'v chosen David Beckam, great example NOT (sorry David), you think he got where he is due to his charisma and football skills, RUBISH. Football skills and Victoria Beckham are what got him where he is "full stop". Beckham is one of the great footballers of our time, nothing else certainly not carasmatic as you say, you MUST be very easily impressed.

I know hundreds of loosers with carisma oozing out of there skin, carisma does not make you "top of your game" or an instant sucsess.

"Insite into the world of sport/business"??? I'm not claiming I do (and cares any way).

I could write a long list of top sportsman/business people/celeberities/products etc that lack carisma.


RESULTS SELL, NOT CARISMA. Dunkerbeck (and A2, KP etc) do not have to charm or impress you, there results are what count.

Get over it!!!

Unregistered
27th September 2008, 06:29 AM
Good results sell boards. Good results and AA sell even more. And that is not in disrespect to Bjorn, he is a legend. I mean, that alone, is not enough to give him a Starboard contract. Let us put it in another perspective. What if Bjørn used boards from Fanatic. I am not sure they would give him a contract either. Its just about branding and what Starboard want to be in the future.

Unregistered
27th September 2008, 08:18 AM
I think Starboard alredy got carisma and results. The name is Antonie Albeau. There is no windsurfers in the world who claims BD is a bad boardrider. He has shown several times he is the best/greatest etc...... That is not the case we are discussing. Its way out of topic!

I used David Becham as an example because it shows that you dont have to be the best football player in the world to be the most talked about. In one week Real Madrid sold so many jerseys it covered the transfer fee.Thats a fact and is just buisiness.

Again, AA was the fastest man on Karpathos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not Duncerbeck.
Speed is about beeing the fastest you know.

It was quite funny looking at AA, grinning, knowing he was the man. Thats a "starboarder"...........................................

Unregistered
27th September 2008, 08:31 AM
ISWC Speed Windsurfing European Championship 2008
Karpathos, Greece, 20.08.-26.08.2008


Final Ranking for Division 1

First SUI-11 DUNKERBECK, Bjorn 42,92

Second FRA-192 ALBEAU, Antoine 43,68


Can you read the the knots Mark??????????

Thorsten
27th September 2008, 01:35 PM
Hi Tim and Mark,

best for anonym flames is to ignore them... ;) :D

BTT: Good to see Bjorn again on Starboard on Sylt... :)

Cheers

Thorsten

Taka
28th September 2008, 08:06 PM
Hi all !!

BD registered STARBOAD iSonic 111 & 133 , Sylt World Cup!! Does he win again??

Anyway it was a great he won by STARBOARD in Turky W-Cup after a long time.
His wining will be more exicting for PWA Slalom race.

He will be the STARBOARD team rider or test rider or user in 2009 ?????

namreh
6th October 2008, 01:22 AM
It's now official (i heared already some days before)

http://pwaworldtour.com/typo3temp/pics/3f4eab1c18.jpg


top 3 slalom 42 2008: starboard on 1-2-3.... Impressive one-design class!

LK
6th October 2008, 01:23 AM
http://pwaworldtour.com/index.php?id=193&tx_pwaevent_pi1[showUid]=145&cHash=de1413c4cf

http://pwaworldtour.com/index.php?eID=tx_cms_showpic&file=uploads%2Fpics%2FS08_ls_It_s_official...Bjorn _goes_Starboard...Bjorn_and_Svein_Rasmussen.jpg&width=800m&height=500&bodyTag=%3Cbody%20style%3D%22background%3A%2300000 0%3Bpadding%3A0%3Bmargin%3A0%3B%3E&wrap=%3Ca%20href%3D%22javascript%3Aclose%28%29%3B% 22%3E%20%7C%20%3C%2Fa%3E&md5=499690b3d1dd3f899d5afc72ca4ab50f

LK
6th October 2008, 01:25 AM
Ha just a few seconds late :-)

nonopr
6th October 2008, 01:39 AM
Great News for SB.

geo
8th October 2008, 03:59 PM
Bjorn's ex-sailmaker, Barry Spanier, described his setup wants this way: boards asking for lots of physical strength by means of rear foot and sail power, complemented by powerful sails. It seems to me Isonics and Warps do provide exactly that, in today's production materials panorama. Seems a perfect choice and a perfect fit. Also seems competitions will be (even) less interesting in the future: no more about who will hold 2nd place, but about who will hold 3rd from now on...

nonopr
8th October 2008, 06:27 PM
I think, not only who will hold Third, but if that person that holds that third will continue to ride for Starboard????

geo
8th October 2008, 10:50 PM
I have the same idea. Think he would be much better with Tabou, and for many reasons.

nonopr
9th October 2008, 07:38 AM
Yep. Lets see.

Papounet
9th October 2008, 04:07 PM
Dont forget that "Mr Pryde" is very insistant !
He really want to have Pryde sails on Pryde Boards...

nonopr
10th October 2008, 07:08 AM
Papounet, are you saying Neilpryde will force Bjorn into JP boards? jajajaja, no way he would do that.

steveC
10th October 2008, 08:11 AM
Isn't Bjorn on North Sails? Neil Pryde?

viking
10th October 2008, 11:13 AM
No, Papounet speaks about Antoine Albeau

nonopr
10th October 2008, 06:43 PM
oh, I dont think he will go to JP any time soon. He did not won a race for 15 years until he sign with starboard.

viking
10th October 2008, 07:36 PM
??? Really? He won so many races before he joined Starboard, including a world title in Formula with a 3 years old AHD 98 NT...

Unregistered
21st October 2008, 12:03 AM
try again, the NP team has plenty of riders on other boards its the JP team that is all NP sails.

Unregistered
21st October 2008, 09:49 PM
oh, I dont think he will go to JP any time soon. He did not won a race for 15 years until he sign with starboard.

???

A.A. won MANY races before his Starboard era...

Waiting4wind
22nd October 2008, 07:16 PM
I sense a bit of 'tall poppy' syndrome here. There is nothing wrong with Starboard becoming the biggest most successful player in the market, it means that they're delivering the goods for their customers and managing the business well. As long as they don't let their quality slip there is a benefit for all of us in big R&D budgets.

As far as BD is concerned, he's a leader in his discipline, a great athlete so there is no issue in him joining a market leading company. I'm sure that we will benefit from his input in Starboard product design.

geo
23rd October 2008, 06:54 PM
Well since we are here... and appreciating how open this forum really is to dissidents...
Waiting4wind, I can't agree with you completely.
A lot in Starboards becoming the biggest palyer derives from marketing policies, including hiring a large team of top riders. Cost of this is on customers, as always; even if Starboard is able to spread this over a very large number of boards.
I agree, they are evidently managing the business the most effective way.
As for quality, in my view Cobra built boards, and Starboard most of all, already declined well under acceptability threshold, considering prices.
I think Starboard should better save some R&D money and spend some more in construction quality.
We will hardly benefit any from BD's design input: it seems evident that even Thommen did not. Also to be considered, BD's requirements probably are the farthest away from those of ordinary customers.

Unregistered
23rd October 2008, 07:38 PM
and with the list price of a 162 at $2800 in the us, those riders must be costing them plenty............

nonopr
23rd October 2008, 07:55 PM
you are right GEO, The prices we are paying at retail for any given Starboard Board should be much lower than what they are right now. You can buy a custom board for the same price, better quality and less weight, limited production you ca buy for less money and better quality than starboard and a Full production board you should be paying significantly less than what you are paying for a SB board in retail. Their boards are made in indo if not mistaken and we are paying these prices?????? If you go there and take $1800.00 in cash to Indo, you can have yourself almost your entire 2000 square feet house furnish.
BUT: and I say BUT:
When you take in consideration that margins are good with them for sure more than 60% and you add a great team, great marketing efforts, great R&D and a lot of talented people to the equation, your margins go down to no more than 40%. Then they have to sell wholesale at 20-30% off to be able to get dealers to buy their product and they the dealer wants to make 40% on the board out the door. Well then this boards are at a Fair price and seems that everyone is liking that. I dont have final number in boards sold and manufactured by Starboard: BUT I can tell you it must be rounding the corner of at least 20,000 all model included.
I would imagine that their sales every your most be around 5-10 million if that. Team Riders dont cost that much at the end, I dont think any of them including BD can get more than $10-20,000 in a contract. The money comes from winning events and that is when BD come along and AA plus a few others, the contest or race money they can get is a huge factor when you are riding for one of the best board building compaies that has ever sat on the planet up to today. They have keep all programs firering in all cylinders. There is no money in Slslom for these companies, no money on Formula or Waves, the money comes from the regular joe who rides a freeride board and he thinks that he is a top gun because he might be the fastest guy out in his spot.
IF you want to learn more. Just tease me more I can open the books and find out all i can in regard this business. It is the same formula as a Surf company from where my back ground is.
What Starboard needs to do is: Built the best windsurfing boards, built quality products that complement their board and start building on they successfull name and get clothing side running, because that is where the money is.
Look at Quiksilver 2 billion dollar company and they dont sell board or own a board company. Look at Billabong 900 million dollar company and they dont owen a Board company. Look at RipCurl a 650 million privately held company and they have mange to license their name to a board company because of their phylosophy and real roots. But the Big boy of all of those is Burton who ownes now Channel Island the biggest board manufacturer in the world witht the best team riders and the most exposure out there, not only they own a surfbosrd company they grew first on Hardgoods.
Starboard if you read this reply: You should be adding clothing in the mix too.

Waiting4wind
24th October 2008, 06:39 AM
The great thing about a free market is that you the consumer gets to set the price. If people think a price is too high they won't buy and along with competitive pressure the company will adjust the price or go out of business.

To get to a certain scale in business takes money, sweat, tears and commitment. Once you get there your can be more profitable, you experience and size allows you to reduce costs and you can attract a premium for your brand. But even then there's no guarantee you'll keep that position in the market if you let things slip.

As far as prices are concerned I think we are paying less now then we were 10 years ago. Currencies and markets aside, in my country I can buy a Sb Futura for < $1800, same price or less then 10 years ago, and those dollars in real terms are worth a lot less now.. Also I am 100% certain I will getting a superior and higher performing product. Keep in mind R&D relates to all aspects of the product, this includes improving quality and ways to reduce cost.

If we are looking at a high performance slalom or formula board then I'm happy to have the best input on it's design. And given the lower volume of the product it will cost more.

BTW, not sure if you've noticed but the 'mini skirt is back'. Even the average sailor is now very interested in speed and slalom, with the advent of the cheap GPS half of the crew I sail with is into it and enjoying the fun of informal GPS based competitions. The great things about the slalom boards of today is that they are easy to ride, unlike 10 to 15 years ago when it was very specialist. This is the result of listening to customers and RD.

I don't think we can make the statement that BD didn't do anything for Thommen boards, there are always a number of factors and inputs at play in this process and the outcome is usually the result of a team effort be it good or bad.

OK I'll stop ranting....but lastly to me it appears that SB has a passion for windsurfing (or it's good marketing) and this drives the core values for their business. So yes they can diversify into other products, but if you can make money out of something that you are passionate about then that's go to be the best result. Besides many a company has gone off the rails through lack of focus on what they're really good at and passionate about.

So SB & BD get's my vote, my new Isonic should be arriving today....yipee..

jessk
25th October 2008, 12:44 PM
Guys like Bjorn, Antoine, KP only getting max 10-20k per contract? Come on, that seems very conservative. Are they making enough in prize money to even cover travel expenses? Just curious. Thoughts?

Unregistered
25th October 2008, 05:17 PM
Bjorn will not be very helpful for R&D contrary to popular view. He struggles to tie his shoelaces since someone has always done it for him.

SB and Bjorn both made a wise choice. Both want to win. Bjorn has been racing on junk for years but got fed up with being beaten. So he tried what the winner (AA) was using and realised what he was missing. And now he's back at the top of the podium. For Bjorn, he knows he can win on SB. No need to look further. Had Bjorn opted for another competitive brand, SB would have seriously risked the 09 title. So obviously its important for SB to have bjorn "on board".

geo
25th October 2008, 09:14 PM
As far as I know, BD's contract with Starboard is worth more or less 10x the sum reported in post #87.
Waiting4wind, "I am 100% certain I will getting a superior and higher performing product": my old RRD 281 and 278 slalom boards built by Cobra in '97 and '99 were much much much better made than my '06 Sonic95: lighter stiffer and with real sharp rails. I used the 278 from '99 to '05 with no problems at all. I imagine that a Sonic95 or other modern design with THAT build quality would be really super.

Unregistered
27th October 2008, 02:00 AM
a few points
1. 20 gs no way, much more , theses pros cant live the way they do and operate on 20 gs euro even.
Many live in expensive places ie : the mecca maui, its not cheap. Some ( not all) driving pretty new vehicles, plus they have to travel to events quite a bit, transport kit .

Starboard Bjorn and Co.
Svein is an innovator he doesnt stop, he wants sucess on all points be it windsurfing or SUP. He is now aiming at the Formula Olympic. If they suceeed they will have a bigger market share then ever. Its even better to have a big company with lots of pros onboard to push windsurfing all over the world, even the Formula in the Olympics.

4 if the Olympics bid succeeds, Starboard for all intents and purpose will be the biggest player ever bar none!!! One bad thing : back to Bjorn , if one had all the "best" pros signed under one flag ,the flags at the "arena" are the same color there is no "percieved " competition.

BUT can this be bad!!?? i dont know.


But you run the risk of killing the competition. And I do believe diversity in damn good in all things.
Think of it this way . Diversity with many things in our lives are now is gone . Replaced with purely products that are the best "marketable".
Look at what we eat , the easiest to grow fruits and veggies and grains . The fastest growing , biggest and easiest transport fresh to get to market.
But, tomatoes for example , lack taste and flavour, of the hundreds of species we only ever eat a few kinds. We dont even know what we are missing we buy into the homogenitiy if it all.
Same goes for grains butter meats etc etc.
One bad virus BOOOM massive crop failure, ( irsh potatoe blight ) people starve because of: NO diversity ...they wanted it cheap .
In windsurfing circles , take board makers. With F2 reeling i hope the makers in europe hang on. If not there will only be cobra.
cobra has a fire .....
ahh i have gone on long enough.
sorry for the rant.
oner thing is there will always be the people who want somethign different , a tabou or windobsession board. ( A Canadian custom)
kuod to them and yes to svein.
Look what happened to clark foam ( that a specialty markey niche read).

Shredulato

Unregistered
27th October 2008, 05:56 AM
ok that was a pretty bad rant ...
i havent windsurfed in two weeks, cold no wind,
thats fall in north america,

shredulato

Unregistered
27th October 2008, 06:28 AM
Today I heard rumours/changes for the top guys for changes in sponsors. When its official, it will really light up this thread!! For now, I'm keeping very stealth to avoid it comming back and bitting my arse.

mark

Happy
27th October 2008, 09:14 PM
Did that rumour involve a bunch of North sails riders?

LK
27th October 2008, 09:20 PM
BD on Severne ? :-)

Unregistered
28th October 2008, 02:24 AM
why go stealth,
noone knows who the heck you are.
so light up this thread!!!
PLEASE....

Unregistered
28th October 2008, 05:01 AM
would love too, but I was told in confidence and it would pretty obvious to the others that it came from me

nonopr
28th October 2008, 05:24 AM
lies, lies, lies.......lies, lies, lies........

Unregistered
2nd October 2010, 12:01 PM
After 2 years, it's very interesting to see Bjorn dominate like this at 42 years !!!!!

Deja Vu
3rd October 2010, 05:49 AM
What's really interesting is that some knew what they were talking about two years ago while others didn't have a clue. Interesting thread from a historical perspective.

viking
5th October 2010, 03:33 PM
Bjorn dominates?? I thought A2 was champion again this year, I must have had some bad informations :)

mark h
5th October 2010, 05:36 PM
The thread was about Sylt only, and BD did dominate this event, 1st position for him at this event:)

Second overall and only 33 points behind AA. If his equipment had turned up at Alacati on time, I think the gap might have been even smaller, or maybe even won overall??

Congrats to Cyril for finishing the year on the podium.

PWA crew did a great job this year and all in tough times. The live streaming at Sylt was wicked:)

Unregistered
5th October 2010, 05:43 PM
Starboard is already way more dominant in market than Mistral ever was !!!

waveyspacer
15th December 2010, 04:25 PM
the PWA bailed from Slalom after his 2000 win.

is there a logic to this? Current slalom is rather untactical, it doesn;t even look like there are priority rules.. FW has at least something of sailing rules left but PWA has nothing but "display art"

SeanAUS120
30th December 2010, 01:06 PM
No tactics in slalom?

Nothing has changed in the tactics. There's still plenty of things going on during the race to get the best start, best position on the line, where you want to be coming in to the turns for clear air, good lines out of the gybe. Same as it was in 2000 or whenever.

The difference now is we have NO RULES during the race. Basically all that changes is that you don't have buoy room or normal ISAF rules when boats meet at the mark. Essentially that just opens the door for a newer set of applied tactics; that of which meaning you either want to keep clear of people, or squeeze in to impossible gaps at the turn and smack others with your boom and hope you can hang on to the rig. I think it's fun and exciting for slalom. Most of the guys love the no rules!

davide
30th December 2010, 02:49 PM
... The prices we are paying at retail for any given Starboard Board should be much lower than what they are right now. You can buy a custom board for the same price, better quality and less weight, limited production you ca buy for less money and better quality than starboard and a Full production board you should be paying significantly less than what you are paying for a SB board in retail.


I own 3 Starboards, 2 RRD and 2 non-cobra (I won't name the non-cobra, but they are well known in some circles). After a couple of years of use the non-cobra are a horror to look at: peeling paint, dents because of too little reinforcement on the rails, discolorations on the bottom, and the top was rough from day one (the builder, sigh, claimed that he skipped the fairing step to "save weight"). The Starboards and RRD by comparisons are beauties, with stunning construction and finish. One of the starboard had a little problem that was fixed immediately under warranty. One of the non-cobra came with a dent, and that was it! .... no warranty, no way to send it back

Personally, unless a custom builder lives 30 miles from me (and he is somebody of the caliper of Mike Zajicek) I would rather go with a production board any day.

Deja Vu
1st January 2011, 01:22 AM
I own 3 Starboards, 2 RRD and 2 non-cobra (I won't name the non-cobra, but they are well known in some circles). After a couple of years of use the non-cobra are a horror to look at: peeling paint, dents because of too little reinforcement on the rails, discolorations on the bottom, and the top was rough from day one (the builder, sigh, claimed that he skipped the fairing step to "save weight"). The Starboards and RRD by comparisons are beauties, with stunning construction and finish. One of the starboard had a little problem that was fixed immediately under warranty. One of the non-cobra came with a dent, and that was it! .... no warranty, no way to send it back

Personally, unless a custom builder lives 30 miles from me (and he is somebody of the caliper of Mike Zajicek) I would rather go with a production board any day.

Were those boards you won't talk about from NZ?

davide
1st January 2011, 01:41 AM
Were those boards you won't talk about from NZ? About 39°04'S 174°05'E

geo
1st January 2011, 05:34 PM
Bah.
I personally own or owned 5 of those 'non Cobra' boards. Finish on my '08 sample is very light, but never gave any problem. '09 and '10 samples are superbly finished, but at the cost of some more weight. Each of them costed me more or less as much as what could have been for any Cobra built board. Rockerlines are still perfectly smooth, flat panels are still flat, as it has always been from day 1.
Past Summer I happened to sail a few times with an athlete sponsored by a 'Cobra' make, racing at national and PWA level; we swapped boards and sails a few times, his board was performing, well, let's say "comparably" to my 'non-Cobra' NZ board; but the bottom of his board was showing clear signs of careful fairing, and in some spots was faired so deep that one could have easily poked a finger through. My board was/is finished just as carefully, but right from the factory, outer laminate is integer and fully strong, no need for a pro shaper to fair it.
Never experienced any strap plug popping off the deck, and that seems to be saying a lot in these days. I have small barely visible dents on the nose of two of my boards, from mast hits that probably would have split in two most more usual boards.
In my view, either Davide had a quarrel with the boss of that 'non-Cobra' make, or must be a very unlucky guy.

To sum it up, my personal view about the boards from that weird NZ make is that they are, to say the least, seriously built. I am planning to order 3 new boards from that weird NZ builder as soon as the new shapes will be released.