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crazychemical
6th September 2008, 02:15 PM
I wrecked my prolimit freemove boom 162-222 thursday and now i'm looking for a replacement. But guys have been telling me that the freemove simply broke because it isn't a very powerfull boom. that may very well be, and with my weight (95 k) i wouldn't be surpriced but since i don't have tons of money to spend and i do'nt want to buy second hand (you simply can't tell what the guy has done with the boom), i'm looking at a few other options and i was wondering if any of you have experience with the following:
mystic venom slalom boom?
Mystic Crossfire slalom boom?
(again) prolimit freemove (i liked the boom, it was light and i never had any stabilety problems with it and i simply broke by bad luck my guess)
Prolimit pro boom?

it really sucks that only a few brands chose to make 160-220 booms ... most only extend by 50 cm rather then 60 ...

Unregistered
6th September 2008, 04:31 PM
No such thing.
Most economical boom is a decent Carbon one.I`m 95 k also. Alloy booms never lasted more than couple of seasons for.Got an Amex Carbon (160 -220) now on its fifth !

steveC
7th September 2008, 12:23 AM
Really, you get what you pay for. The importance in that thought comes even more meaningful if you're a true heavyweight. So rather than look to the bargain side of the spectrum, I would step up to the premium side. I would recommend looking at the Maui Sails Carbon Wave 170-230. It is a 100% monocoque design with arguably the best front end design on the market. This boom is pricey, but in my opinion worth every penny (I own one).

If you are light on cash, think about using some credit to make up for the difference. Sure, using credit does cost you a bit extra, but building an excellent credit history is a good investment over the long haul, especially when it comes time to buy truly expensive items like a car, property, or even a good education.

crazychemical
7th September 2008, 01:42 AM
all good and well guys, but i'm a student, NO TENGO DINERO! I have no steady job (read, my yearly income is around 2000 €!) with which i need to pay parties, windsurfrepairstuff, new equipment, gas etc etc. I seriously can't afford carbon booms. And if i can avoid credit i will do so, i can think of better stuff to credit on.
I found the Nautix NX-TREM Slalom 1,65-2,15 interesting enough .. it's RDM boom it says on the nautix site and the price is reasonable (about 150, i was planning on going for 100 but k ... ). Some guys in Holland recommended Nautix for heavy guys but i think they refer to the Nautix Jumbo and they don't come in the right size (i need about 160-220 because i like to sail a maximum of my sails on the same boom, thats why the Freemove probably gave in, it was all i ever used (nearly) and i nearly always sail overpowered).
furthermore, if u do the maths and i spend 150 on a boom, i sail it for 3 years, that boom costs me 50 per annum .. if it lives, like the freemove, which costs less, 4 years i spend even less ... now how many years would i have to sail a Carbon boom to get the same costs epr annum? lets say they cost about 450 ... so at least 9 years, how many of you made your slalom booms live for that long?

Unregistered
7th September 2008, 10:45 AM
maui sails aluminum boom, a bit heavier than carbon, but quite stiff and a great value

Unregistered
7th September 2008, 04:03 PM
If I was in your position I`d definitely go second hand carbon.
Any alloy boom will bend/break in 95K crashes.They also corrode from inside after 3/4 seasons.
Look at Amex.(A nearly new Amex 100% went for £120 on Ebay;looked mint)
Price/performance Amex best on Market.

crazychemical
7th September 2008, 04:47 PM
the problem with 2nd hand i have is that you can never really tell how good the guy is. If this guy can't surf overpowered properly and crashes every so often even the his carbon boom will be damaged on a fibral level and i might end up with a boom that cracks in half after a season because i too tend to crash quite a few times when there's a strong wind blowing (thats why i was already surprised i hadn't cracked the boom before). So u may end up buying an expensive second hand boom that'll crack just as fast as a cheaper alloy rdm boom.

Ola_H
7th September 2008, 07:16 PM
Is that really true, Haiko? I'm not sure carbon fails in that way, ie slowly getting worse crash by crash (aluminum do though, it has no fatigue level so each and every little strain add up to a failure sooner or later).

Of course there might be structural damages that is not easy to spot on a used carbon boom, but personally I think that a boom (or mast for that matter) that has seen some hard use and still seems to be intact is usually a good buy. I have not really heard of people breaking old carbon boom more than new ones.

But in the end it depends on price too and even a good used carbon boom is more expensive than a god new alu boom. An alu boom I've tried that seems strong and stiff is the non tapered version of the Aeron boom.

crazychemical
7th September 2008, 07:43 PM
from what i understand from any fiber construction is that it is shock sensitive. The more you shake it around and the harder you do, the more you damage the fibres inside the structure. Booms and masts are made to absorb shocks from transport (small vibrations etc) but for larger crashes it can't always do so which internally shakes up the fibres making it more sensitive. Thats why masts break. In my experience, 100 % masts, the larger ones, seem to break even more easily then the less carbon content ones.
Look at it this way: take a carbon boom and a hammer and start knocking on it. At first you won't see anything happening, but you know you've weakened a certain area. Then you go sailing, hook in the cords and crash before you have the chance to unhook, you fly forward and the boom breakes. Now, where do you think the boom will most likely break? now leave aside the hammer and just crash your boom in the water at a nice fierce speed a few times, do you see where i'm getting at?
Alu booms break because a combination of internal damage and fatigue. Do the same thing with them, they'll break. Their extra dissadvantage is that metal gets fatigued and corroded which makes boom breakage of alu booms more frequent then boom breakage of C-booms.
I've been looking at the Amex booms, their freestyle boom seems interesting: 160-220 with a 32-26-29 diameter construction. But i cant seem to find them in mainland Europe (mainly Belgium, Holland or Germany, perhaps North of France).
Aeron only has one boom that fits the measurement i want, the T6 165-215 and i find that a bit too marginal. The sail i used most with the old one has a 212-214 boom size and i used a 162-222 boom on it so i always had a few spare cm's.

Ola_H
7th September 2008, 09:19 PM
But I never had a mast break from lots of use. In fact, when I have a mast that has survived lots of wave punishment, I prefer to take that mast the next time I go out in big wave instead of a new, unproven one. Hence I have masts that has survived quite a lot of punishment for years. On the other hand I've often broken almost new masts quite a few times. Maybe just a matter of coincidence, but it is not _that_ unlikely that there are slight variations in built between individual samples.

In any case, I never had a old well used carbon mast or boom fail in a "surprising" manner (ie in a way that lead me to believe it was weakened from use). I've had issues were a bond has failed over time, but that is not really the carbon structure itself and it's not relevant on monocoque booms.

Boards are a different thing, but then there is almost always the core or sw foam that weakens and breaks up eventually.

Anyone else have that have experience failures of carbon masts or boom that they think has to do with wear? (Exclude 100% carbon race masts. They are built so close to the limit that the slightest little damage will weaken the mast.)

crazychemical
7th September 2008, 09:57 PM
i'm not saying all gear will break from overusage. Just that in second hand cases you can't be sure how used they really are because you can't possibly see the internal structure. Furthermore, the theory says it only increases the risk. The hight of this risk is dependant on the type of crashes, the way one treats his/her equipment etc. This is true for all gear, from windsurfing to tennis.
i do'nt mind buying second hand gear. if i can get myself a good deal i'll go for it. But i always get gear i can properly inspect. you can check masts for useage, you can check boards for cracks, splinters and repairs, but you can't check booms because of the EVA around it and even if you could the ALU booms tend to show the usual scratches from day one and C-booms are even harder to inspect.
I try to buy my gear new if i can, but i rarely have the funds to and seeing as i'm not a prorider who gets new gear every so often i have to really outway what 'ill buy new and what i'll buy used. Thats why i started this thread in the first place.
Ok, no such thing as a good budget boom but amidst the cr*p there should be a few decent buggers. The guys from my windsurffrat told me not to buy the prolimit freemove anymore because with my increasing slalom and speed addiction i'll just end up breaking it after less then 2 years or so. The question wether i'll break another boom one day is irrelevant, i know i probably will, as i will break masts, tare sails and break and damage boards. The biggest question i have is: untill i finish my education and can finally start making money so i can buy myself propper carbon and whatnot gear, what is most resistant.
So far my preferance has gone to Amex or Nautix as a replacement. But i can't find good dealers and i seem to have struck a good deal on a new prolimit freemove again (like 70€). If i wreck it within 3 years it still barely cost me anything. But if someone here says: hey, i bought this boom, i'm a heavyweight too, and it didn't cost me too much and it still lived to see 4 years without the least of problems i'll look into it.

HotIce
8th September 2008, 01:43 AM
You have been given excellent advice on this thread.

A second carbon boom is definitely your best option.

I decided to try a new modern alloy boom last year. Plenty of hype around it. You know , modern shape, continuous head, tapered arms, top pro sailor saying it was strong, etc, etc.... Just one little problem it broke after about only 15 sessions.

Ola_H is spot on regarding carbon. If it is going to fail it will normally be within the first few sessions.

Check out the pros web sites. They are always selling top gear, some of it with little use.


Happy hunting.

geo
8th September 2008, 02:05 PM
Look for an used carbon boom. No way to save money with aluminum booms if you're 95 kg.
If I was in your shoes, I'd look for a boom with its original grip: this way it wil show all possible damages from sharp objects, which is the only thing that could possibly harm a carbon boom durability. If there are no dings/scratches on the carbon tubes (that obviously have to cut through the grip to happen), then in my view you can go safe. Old grip will also lower price, leaving up to you the decision to regrip or not.

Floyd
8th September 2008, 05:45 PM
I`m with Ola on this one. I`ve heavy (100k+) and over years have broken (and bent beyond use) loads of aluminium booms.Broke one carbon (tube!) and was still able to sail in on other tack.(Boom still felt usable on non-broken side)
Alloy (Aluminium) undergoes metal fatigue even when used within its design limits.Carbon fibre does not.(Fatigue) Dings on the beach destroy carbon.(point loading braking fibres)You can look for dings.(Even if it means removing grip)You will never find the fatigue in an alloy.(You see the corrosion though)To my mind you are at least 4 times as likely to break an alloy boom.
I remember days of aluminium masts. (Serfiac pro etc). I would simply not use them at sea ! (They were fantstic for performance /weight but I could break one sheeting in !)
Aluminium development has not moved on in last 10 years; on the other hand Carbon/kevlar/dyneema usage has made fantastic leaps.(Pardon the pun!)

My advice to anyone would be dump the alloy boom;if you are heavy its almost essential !!

Personally would rather take my odds with a 3 season old second hand Carbon. (Amex/HPL even MK or dare I say it NP (x9) than any brand new alloy.(Aluminium)
MK sell reconditioned (regripped) carbon.(Dont like clamp though)They must have faith in them !

Unregistered
8th September 2008, 05:52 PM
Will i be super happy with the Chinook carbon big wave, or should i await the MS booms to get back into stock (2009 version perhaps)?

Sorry for slightly hijacking the thread,
Northy

NORTHY
8th September 2008, 05:53 PM
Will i be super happy with the Chinook carbon big wave, or should i await the MS booms to get back into stock (2009 version perhaps)?

Sorry for slightly hijacking the thread,
Northy

Whoops - forgot to login hence the double post...

uk3
8th September 2008, 06:17 PM
it seems pretty unanimous that carbon booms are the way forward but does rider weight make a difference? it would be silly for me at 60kg to give advice to a 95kg but i snapped 2 aluminium Hawian proline booms in quick succession and i think its just because they weren’t very good not just because they were alloy. I then bought a north silver series alloy boom and never looked back, its still great after a season and a half of hard wipe outs in big waves, if the build quality is good would body weight be more of an important factor as to whether you buy carbon or alloy?

Floyd
8th September 2008, 10:12 PM
Bigger sailor will generally (always?) have bigger sail on.Hence longer boom hence more chance of breaking.Bigger sail collects more water inshorebreak hence better chance of breaking.
105 k falling onto boom against 60k falling on boom? bit obvious really ?
Generally bigger sailor (especially in my case) more likely to wipeout (clumsy???) in first place.
Bigger sailors (always) sail faster(????) faster wipeout ? better chance of breakage !
(Last comment is said in jest) But ask Dave White what he uses ?
Its not a competition really. We gave up on aluminium masts years ago but persist with booms ??? Not sure why ???

Unregistered
10th September 2008, 05:01 PM
. We gave up on aluminium masts years ago but persist with booms ??? Not sure why ???

IMHO I feel it is:-

Because some people think alloy is cheaper, but in the long run its not.

Because some people have been misled into believing that using carbon is somehow being elitist.

Because some people miss the most important point that carbon is far stronger than alloy.

steveC
11th September 2008, 12:53 AM
While I stopped using aluminum boom in 1992 after I broke 6 of them in one year (and I'm surprisingly on the lightweight side of the spectrum), there are many other folks that seem to get pretty good use out of them. I don't know what it is, but I think one's sailing style and not necessarily one's weight that has a lot to do with whether aluminum will work overall. Aluminum booms are significantly cheaper overall, so that lures many, but I guess whether you stick with the bargain game is ultimately determined by the frustration factor and how many time you get let down. I wouldn't use aluminum booms even if they were free. From my perspective, carbon booms are the only way to go, despite their premium price.

Duracell
11th September 2008, 01:39 AM
Get yourself a new carbon boom at decathlon. Cheap, good and a fantastic 2 year warranty. Alu booms suck (I've gone through quite a few of them and have given up on them).

crazychemical
11th September 2008, 02:34 AM
euhm ... by my knowledge Decathlon only sells alu booms by their brand... where did u buy ur C-boom by decathlon?

Phill104
11th September 2008, 03:49 AM
I've found the monocoque Aeron Alu booms to be superb. You can buy 4 of them for the same price as a cheap carbon boom. They are just as stiff, light and have a very good clamp. If alu booms were really as bad as Duracell seems to think I doubt the hire centres use them but they do. By the end of each seson the grip always looks knackered but so would any carbon boom.

I think the problem with Alu is the joins but as there are none in the current generation of Alu booms doing the rounds we seem to have the best of both worlds in a low price.

HotIce
11th September 2008, 03:22 PM
I've found the monocoque Aeron Alu booms to be superb. You can buy 4 of them for the same price as a cheap carbon boom. They are just as stiff, light and have a very good clamp. If alu booms were really as bad as Duracell seems to think I doubt the hire centres use them but they do. By the end of each seson the grip always looks knackered but so would any carbon boom.

I think the problem with Alu is the joins but as there are none in the current generation of Alu booms doing the rounds we seem to have the best of both worlds in a low price.


I broke my monocoque Aeron Alu boom after about only 15 sessions.

Carbon is the only way to go.

Ola_H
11th September 2008, 03:53 PM
I broke my monocoque Aeron Alu boom after about only 15 sessions.

Carbon is the only way to go.

Was it the tapered, narrow grip version?

Phill104
11th September 2008, 10:12 PM
I broke my monocoque Aeron Alu boom after about only 15 sessions.

Carbon is the only way to go.

I broke someone elses Carbon boom after it had been used for about the same length of time.

You Irish sailors all sail like nutters anyway. It must be down to you getting propper waves instead of the ripples we get down our way.

HotIce
11th September 2008, 11:55 PM
Was it the tapered, narrow grip version?

Yes it was the tapered narrow grip version.

Why do you ask?

Ola_H
12th September 2008, 01:42 AM
Yes it was the tapered narrow grip version.

Why do you ask?

Its just that I have a feeling the narrow diameter version is not so strong. The regular (which is not exactly "fat" either) is a better and stronger design.

In fact, anyone wanting very narrow diameter should definitely go for a carbon boom (for example the Aeron).

NORTHY
12th September 2008, 01:53 AM
Update - well after deliberating for an age (MS V Chinook etc - but both LOTS of money), i got offered a 6mth old Tecnolimits XTR carbon boom at the beach yesterday at a great price - my first carboon boom - cant wait to try it out on the water!

Phill104
12th September 2008, 03:37 AM
Its just that I have a feeling the narrow diameter version is not so strong. The regular (which is not exactly "fat" either) is a better and stronger design.

In fact, anyone wanting very narrow diameter should definitely go for a carbon boom (for example the Aeron).

Do you think the taper could be a weak point?

Surely the thinner diameter must have a thicker wall to compensate in the same way skinny masts do?

I am glad booms have become narrower. I used to get wrist cramp with my old jumbo.

Duracell
12th September 2008, 07:13 PM
Decathlon sold them, I still think they do but quite often don't have them everywhere on stock. Seems like they don't offer them online (Spain). If I were you I'd just call a shop if you just can't go and visit.