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Unregistered
29th September 2008, 03:45 PM
Seems that AA just lost his speed sailing record to a kitesurfer:
http://www.cabrinhakites.com/news//169-new-speed-record-set-with-crossbow-ids

toddewoell
29th September 2008, 05:56 PM
since this happened on the 19th of september,
thats not real news...

that place is fast, but like elsewhere you have to hit the right conditions.

see www.luderitz-speed.com for additional info.

Unregistered
29th September 2008, 06:14 PM
Might not be news for you, but for the ones that don't check all possible websites on a daily basis it might be.........

Anyway, thanks for the additional info! Seems to be a great spot for speed surfing! Didn't really know it. Let's hope AA, BD or any other windsurfer can bring that record back to windsurfing!!

crazychemical
30th September 2008, 03:05 AM
there still is the 50 knot barrier! we can still make it. have faith in the speedseakers, AA, Martin Van Meurs, Dunckerbeck, we just need to hit he right conditions at the right time! Let's show those kiteguys windsurfers are still kings of the wind!

Per
30th September 2008, 04:42 PM
News to me too, but not a surprise. The engineering of a kite and the additional board just screams on downwind speed. In our local races the kites have begun to beat the formula guys on a race course. Kitesurfing is seriousely innovative these days, whereas windsurfing seems a little on the conservative side. I've never tried kitesurfing and I love windsurfing, so no offence. Anyway the 50 knot barrier is THE task and WS is still in the game..

Unregistered
1st October 2008, 08:49 AM
hi per
I didn't know kites went upwind !!
well kite go upwind a little bit not very well.

But If they are beating formula boards I guess im wrong

Per
1st October 2008, 05:58 PM
Neither did I, until I saw the boards the local kiters are working with. They make their own shapes and fins and experiment a lot. I'm an amateur formula sailor and on a good day I only point something like 5 degrees higher than the kiters (course race kiters). Downwind I'm dead meat. The serious formula sailors do point noticeable higher, but speed is equal and downwind definetely in favour of the kiters.
Funny developement. Five years ago I outblasted any kiter anywhere by just being on a plane on my windsurfer ;-)

Ken
2nd October 2008, 01:26 AM
At the US Wind and water Open last May in Corpus Christi, the kiters raced the same Formula course as the Formula class with an upwind leg of 1200 to 1500 meters. We alternated racing on the course, so while the Formula racers were on shore, we timed the kiters around the course. There were two or three of them that were significanty faster than the rest and got around the course in about the same time as the top half of the formula fleet.

No doubt that they can do very well next to Formual boards. Winds as I recall were in the 15 to 20 knot range. The best Formula sailors against the best kiters? Who knows.

Their boards were shaped more like small surf boards with much larger fins than the standard kite boards. My recollection is that the fins were around 10cm and there were at least two, sometimes three.

Unregistered
2nd October 2008, 02:16 AM
I always thought it would be great to get the very best together to find the fastest single hander around a course across the condition range. Figured on A cats, hydro moths & formula. So now it seems kites would have to join the party too.

Unregistered
2nd October 2008, 01:48 PM
With the hydro moths they were design to lift up and start foiling at slow speeds sacrificing its top speed. It doesn't go much faster than 20 knots.

A bit like the formula philosphy except the formula boards drag maxes out at about 30knots.

The moths are very impressive and a massive leap from the old design now called sea huggers.

I sail a sea hugger it was regarded a the hardest boat to sail but I hear the foiling boats are easier.

toddewoell
2nd October 2008, 11:33 PM
When interested,
keep your Eyes on Luderitz this Weekend. There are epic conditions on the way...
Maybe the 50 will be blown.

Unregistered
3rd October 2008, 03:46 AM
Moth to FW cross over is around 12 knots
http://www.kasail.com/windsurfing/news/12june07.html
would have been intesting to use an Apollo

and good luck for th weekend winds.....

Tim Fast
4th October 2008, 05:59 AM
seems that the Kiters (actually french S. Cattelan) have borken the 'Magic 50' !!!

so the windsurfer have to go for 55 now ...

http://www.luderitz-speed.com/ContentPages/News/News.aspx?pageid=1

Hang loose

crazychemical
4th October 2008, 05:42 PM
damn ... i was counting on AA for that one to fall ... well, there goed my bet i guess.

Unregistered
4th October 2008, 10:56 PM
Maybe the windsurfers drop in again at Luderitz,
when the Sylt cup is over...

Unregistered
4th October 2008, 10:58 PM
Maybe the windsurfers drop in again at Luderitz,
when the Sylt cup is over...
They are pushing the limits again, new record today

Unregistered
6th October 2008, 02:13 PM
In my opinion a kiter is a aircraft, not a sailing vessel. German law says the same (for insurance)

Aco
6th October 2008, 10:59 PM
In my opinion a kiter is a aircraft, not a sailing vessel. German law says the same (for insurance)
Interesting point: by using the
(+) water as an "anchor point" (= trough the board) and
(+) a "flying craft" (= kite) for the sail

they are a sort of marriage between a
(+) sailing craft (= windsurfer?) and a
(+) flying craft (= paraglider).

I believe that Kites have good chances to be faster than windsurfers in speed runs because in comparison with WS they are catching the wind
(+) higher above the ground and
(+) faaaar leeward of the board.

As a consequence they can afford
(+) catching stronger, less turbulent winds in the heights and at the same time
(+) have virtually NO wind on the water surface (imagine a 1 meter tall wall immediately windward of the speed-streep...) which translates into "ultra-omni-glassy-flat-water" and thus....speeeeeed!

Moreover I believe that the currently used kites are FAR from optimal sailing kites:
they do not hold their shape very well (inflated...) and have a lot of unnecessary surface that creates more drag than propulsion (the tips of the kite's U-shape).

A rigid structure Kite (imagine a Hang-Glider with lines ;)) would probably make the "Rigid Kites" by far faster than the current "Floppy Kites".

In conclusion I see a hard time for WS to be the fastest sailing craft on the long run if somebody doesn't ban kites because of being "flying craft" as pointed out by poster #17 ;)

Just my opinion - comments Welcome.
Regards, Aco

Per
6th October 2008, 11:35 PM
Interesting points...
Couldn't an F16 jet plane act as the fastest car in the world if it kept the wheels touching the ground for a short moment (at 2000 km/h)?
Anyway, take the board away from the kiters and they will stop immediately. They are SAILING.. That said I agree (with all respect to their fantastic results) that their construction will meet the wall at a certain speed. The windage and drag from the kite itself and especially all the lines will be a limiting factor. A windsurf sail can be a lot more aerodynamically efficient but suffers from the mentioned drawbacks from being close to the water surface with all its disturbance and turbulence.
Anyway, the difference between kites and WS is very small (less than a knot or 2%), and a lot of factors influence when doing speed runs.

Right now the kiters lead ;-)

Per

Papounet
7th October 2008, 03:31 PM
Just wait for a few weeks...

http://www.hydroptere.com/images_data/base_image2_596.jpg

She as just done 52.86 Knots VMAX open sea on saturday.
http://www.hydroptere.com/loader_video2.swf?video_dir=./images_data/videos/52,86%20noeuds.flv


The wind was gusty and light residual swell prevent sailing at the speed spot....

crazychemical
7th October 2008, 04:02 PM
Interesting points...
That said I agree (with all respect to their fantastic results) that their construction will meet the wall at a certain speed. The windage and drag from the kite itself and especially all the lines will be a limiting factor. A windsurf sail can be a lot more aerodynamically efficient but suffers from the mentioned drawbacks from being close to the water surface with all its disturbance and turbulence.

Per

wouldn't they simply meet their limit by actually going airborne all the time ... i mean, if they wanne go faster and faster the boards will only get them so far so they'll have to take up bigger kites which means that at a certain point they'll simply fly off ....

Papounet
7th October 2008, 04:42 PM
70/80 Knots wind + an old "parachute" + a Bibendum costum for safety

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e6/USMC_Paratrooper.jpg/250px-USMC_Paratrooper.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/fr/b/b3/Bibendum.jpg
You will be able to go at 60 Knots

toddewoell
7th October 2008, 05:59 PM
to #17 and #18: kiters are a official division for the outright record. (see wssrc rules)
so there will be no ban.
just imagine what will happen when kitedesigners start working on efficency of gear.
there were so many discussions about windsurfers being the first ones to break the 50kts, maybe the hydroptere will be the next one? or the maquarie? or something else?
The Kiters did it first, on the official course ,kudos to them.