View Full Version : First runs on F-Type 158 + 11.0
16th October 2006, 03:04 PM
Hi again Roger.
Sometime ago you helped me to build my big gear, I got a F-Type 158 + Gaastra Swift 11.0 with aluminium boom.
For some reasons, I just had my first runs last weekend, and I would like to give you my first impressions.
Up to know, my biggest sail was a 7.9, so I have a lot of things to learn, about the bigger sail and the board.
About the sail definetly I need to buy a on-board control system for the outhaul, for improving the range and not waste time going to the sore for adjusting manually. Big power.
The boom was at my forehead height, on non planning conditions I had to jump for hanging on the harness lines, however when planning I had to be carefull for not unhooking.. I did not feel very comfortable becouse of this. I felt quite too close to the water, I do not understand why, with the boom so high. The harness lines are about 22" long (Or it was 26", can not remember..). The harness is a "crossover", not a "sitting racing" one. Any remarks?
I put the footstraps on the most rear-out position, (as it has to be)
The board is definetly the easiest planning board ever tried. I put the front foot on the strap, just hang down from the boom and go! Later hook on the harness and put the rear foot in the strap.
For going upwind, I tried to lift the front foot and push with the back foot, but becouse of my stance too low/close to the water I was not comfortable to find the "sweet magic carpet" feeling that you say.
I feel I should have been planning faster than I was, there were about 10 knots.
I will apreciatte your remarks to improve my sailing with this kit.
I am 74kg
Thanks a lot!
16th October 2006, 06:13 PM
How are you?
With this sail i remember i used harness lines too far back, it helps to hang on.
Another tip is to pump, with hands and foots also, with front foot on strap... when board is really planning, then the sail move back, closing the gap, then, your harness lines must be close to your hook, then hang on it. next put your back foot. This is the key.
With a 28-30 long lines hang on is more easy.
It is normal you need long lines for downwinds and close ones for go upwind. some people uses 2 pair of lines (one short, one long). Some people uses adjustable onthefly harness lines.
Im actually trying with a "made_by_myself" adjustable lines, ussing clamcleats and good dyneema 6mm rope. It helpme to hang on, and when i start to go upwind, i short the lines.
A race (lower hook) harness should help you to carry a big sail too.
For going downwind, i like to use the chicken strap.
I hope this help... but if you need to know something more, i can tell you more... in Spanish ;-)
16th October 2006, 08:32 PM
Qu? pasa Paco!!
Its a little bit funny to get some piece of advice here from the old owner of the rig isn't it? :D
Thanks for it, I will check the issue of the 2 harness lines or an adjustable ones.
I am very happy with the sail, it seems to have even more range of use that it was supposed to, although I have to test more deeply on the downhaul&outhaul settings.
Anyway I would like to have more feedbacks from Roger, Rod, and other friends.
17th October 2006, 08:01 AM
Since you asked :-).......
I believe Roger often runs his boom at about chin height for general sailing and I do the same. Maybe forehead height is a little high?
I use 28" harness lines with a seat harness, ( hook relatively high for seat harness). You might find 22" lines too short in combination with such a high boom. I would also suggest a seat harness for 9m and larger sails.
Roger will probably suggest adjustables but I went for fixed to eliminate another thing I had to adjust :-).
I was given a simple one sided Sailworks adjustable outhaul and I could not sail without one now even though my largest sail is only 9m. I believe it is a must.
18th October 2006, 10:38 AM
The others here have given you some pretty good advice.
Is your stance different from what you've been doing (like does it feel weird to be hanging so close to the water) or are you actually dragging your butt in the water?
I agree with Rod, on the boom height. Unless you are on a true formula board and racing upwind downwind formula courses, placing the boom up much higher than your chin is probably not necessary and may be giving you some imbalance.
I thiink Rod and I went through a whole series of posts a couple of years back where he started out with the boom too low, then moved it too high and eventually he found that at about chin level (where I tend to run my booms on wider boards and larger sails) seemed to balance out the best.
Then you need to either use adjustable harness lines (I favor the Sailworks Quik-Tune lines) or get a set of lines in a length that makes you most comfortable where ever you set the boom height.
Double lines, for mostly back and forth reaching are probably not necessary as you will rarely go deep enough off the wind to need the really long lines and rarely go high enough upwind to need the super short lines. The adjustables are a nice feature as you can "tune" your harness line length for whatever the conditions need, at the moment and on the fly.
The adjustable outhaul (whether a simple single side version like Rod is using or a full on double side formula setup) is as you are finding, almost mandatory for sails larger than about 9.0 m2. Without the adjustable outhaul, you are going to find yourself overpowered and underpowered alot of the time. With the adjustment you can tune your rig for the conditions as they change.
You really need a bit more "time on the water" to sort out the differences between what you've been sailing and the super wide F-Type 158 with the big 11.0 m2 rig.
It's going to take some time for you to figure out how a large rig balances, how to tune it for different conditions, and how you need to change your stance to get the best speed and earliest planing from your setup.
Hope this helps,
18th October 2006, 01:48 PM
Definetly you are right, Roger, I need more TOW to find out the sweet spot of each part of the kit.
I will set the boom at the chin next time. I am happy to know that forehead height is too much.. it was not so nice to handle on non planning conditions.
Probably becouse of the unbalance coming from the overpower&too high boom I was not commiting my weight enough to the harness and I was using my arms too much. It could be the reason for the "easy-unhooking" feeling.
I will go for the adjustable harness lines and outhaul control system.
I will come back to keep you updated on my progress and looking for more tips.
Thanks a lot everyone !
Enjoy the wind!
18th October 2006, 09:01 PM
Remember, when adjusting your stance and boom height/harness line length, that the goal is to keep the rig as vertical (side to side here) as possible. The sail is most efficient when it's raked back all the way and standing nearly straight up.
You need to have your body (upper body weight here) "suspended" from the harness lines and your shoulders as far away from the boom as you can reach (even with your shoulders rolled forward a little).
It's simple leverage here. The farther away from the rig you get the weight, the more power you can comfortably handle.
When you get it right and everything balanced and adjusted, your arms will be doing virtually nothing (besides adjusting sheeting angle).
When at full speed, you should be able to "play the piano" with your fingers on the top of the boom. If you can "play the piano" you can't be holding the boom in a death grip and pulling hard with your arms.
As long as you butt doesn't drag in the water, you have enough clearance.
This is quite different than on smaller boards where you stand up quite a bit more toward the vertical and tend to "push down" a little with the back foot.
On the F-Type, your back foot takes about 90% or more of the load, and you may actually be pulling up a little with your front foot.
This rolls the board slightly to leeward, and gets it "up on the fin" where it's able to plane fast and free.
Hope this helps,
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