PDA

View Full Version : 1 board solution


Unregistered
26th December 2008, 09:26 PM
Hi,

what would you suggest for a 1 board + 2 sail solution (cannot buy more than that)? I'm 1,88m, 94kg and will windsurf in 10-20knots wind.

I was thinking about the Isonic 122 because it says it can handle sails up to 9,5. Would a isonic 122 + 9.0m be a sinker at my weight? Want to be sure I can windsurf back if wind drops.

Water conditions: usually flat but some chop if wind gets stronger (over 15 knots). Summer is there and I'm looking forward to start asap.

Chris Pressler
26th December 2008, 11:59 PM
Hi,
the iSonic 122 will cover an extremely wide windrange, also for you. You have some weight, but you will have fun with the 9,0. Just if the wind is very light you would have an advantage with one size bigger. You will not sink with the 9,0 and the 122. Th eboard is 75 cm wide and sits very stable in the water. Definitely you will enjoy the board more in 13 knots+.
Hope it helps,
Chris

crazychemical
27th December 2008, 12:33 AM
hmm Chris, be carefull with what you say. The IS are known to have a smaller volume then mentioned and I, with my 92 kilograms sink on boards <125 liters. So i do think he'll sink on the IS122. Though, if you can waterstart it, there should be no problem, you just have to learn to skate a bit so that you can at least stand on the board after a waterstart without it going strait to the ground (so you'll need a bit off pull from the sail none the less, but subplanning is good enough).
But as a one board solution the IS122 for a 94 K sailor is ideal. I use a 113 L board for 14-22 knots, so i do think a 122 could cover 10-20 with such a sailrange. Before i had the 113 i used my GO139 for 10-22 knots and that worked quite well, now i only use it for 12-17 knots because any harder and i start to feel more relaxed on a smaller board.

Chris Pressler
27th December 2008, 01:10 AM
Hi Crazychemical,
thanks for your post. The 122 has some liters less, 114 or 113, but would aestimate that you do not sink if there is some wind. I only have around 83-84 kg and with th ewetsuit more. My 101 for stance - the board measures around 96 l - does not sink.
Sure, a 9,0 has a lot of weight, too and also makes a difference if you sail on sweet or salty water and if you wear a wetsuit.

But itīs cool that you can recommed the 122 for 10 knots plus. So, would you recommend the 122 instead of a bigger sized board?
Thanks,
Chris

Unregistered
27th December 2008, 02:15 AM
Hi Chris, Crazychemical,

thanks for the comments. I consider myself experienced (but very very far from pro) and would say waterstart shouldn't be a problem. I just want to make sure that if wind drops I can sail back, even if it is not enough for a waterstart. Where I sail the wind sometimes drops quite fast. Had some not so "interesting" experiences with my previous 100l board. (though, I always managed to somehow sail back).

I was considering the 133l, but when the wind gets stronger I'm concerned it will not handle the chop very well. I'm sailing on salty water and it can get quite chopy when the wind picks up.

Floyd
27th December 2008, 05:09 AM
Sorry for being contradictory but there is no such thing as a one board solution.Its a one board compromise;and I wouldnt choose an all out speed/slalom board as that compromise. Might give most time on water but not the "best" time on water. Go for board which gives most enjoyable time in prevailing conditions.(Choppy sea) I`d forget Isonic; Futura 122 would be better " compromise". Difference in speeds (in real terms) is almost insignificant. (Dont forget in racing 2 feet over 200 metres can be significant but loads of other qualities have to be lost to gain what are actually very small (but real)performance advantages.
Try a few boards. All out slalom boards are not really "fun" in challenging conditions.

crazychemical
27th December 2008, 04:07 PM
i'm not saying you should be planning but i don't think a 90 K + sailor could uphaul a 9.0 sail on the IS122. You'll always need a bit of pull from the sail to compensate for a couple of kilo's. When i'm surfing my 113 and the wind drops and i lose the minimal pull from the sail it's over, i'm swimming, but over the years i've learned how to balance the board to it's max (minimum wind) so i can sail it back in like 10 knots with a 7.6 (if i fall in though, it's game over)
@ floyd: if the man wants an IS, let him get one. The futuras are a compromise on their own. Some sailors don't enjoy a much to comfortable ride and like a more technical one.
All in all i think the IS is his better choice, but if he can test a few boards first, by all means do. Though i have yet to find a dealer that lets me test a board before i buy it.

Waiting4wind
27th December 2008, 04:47 PM
Ok I'm curious now, what's the real volume of the IS111 ??, For my 90kg it seems to slog well with both my 7.8 and 9m, you just need to be careful not to bury the nose.

Unregistered
27th December 2008, 04:50 PM
Hi creazychemical,

I think your answer was exactly what I was looking for. I also have the feeling I won't be able to uphal a 9,0m (or at least it will needs lots of effort) if wind is not enough for waterstart. Guess the conclusion is that for 1 board solution (or compromise) the 122 is the best choice/windrange or I then go for 2 boards, 1 somewhat bigger (144 or formula) and 1 somewhat smaller (111). Main problem is that I don't have anywhere to store 2 boards and my wife woudn't be too happy to have a board in our living room. :-)

To floyd, I appreciate your comments but I have been sailing for over 10 years now and I don't really like the bigger freeride board feeling. For lower volumes (105l and less) it is quite ok since it also alllows me some jumps, but don't really like it for bigger volumes where you won't jump anyways, then I just want to go fast.

Also must say that I don't know any seller that would allow me to test the boards beforehand. Where I live there is no option to rent boards, so I unfortunately will have to buy and hope for the best.

Floyd
27th December 2008, 07:43 PM
Dont quite see the pooint in posing a question and then looking for response you want !!

Anyhow; I can see arguments for Isonic but I do think as a one board (compromise)you`d be missing out on a whole section of windsurfing.Your point re-jumping exactly true for Isonic; I wouldn`t want to jump one. (not saying its impossible though but at best not advised)
Bigger kodes; Futuras and others of similar ilk ;jump fantastic.(Biggest jump I`ve ever seen was on a Hawk 123 (it was sailed by French Wave champion at time though) .

Isonics etc thrive on committment and drive.You cant set one up to sail over centre line and "play" with an upright stance .(learning techniques you`ll need on a wave board) Futura /Hawk/Eagle/Rocket etc are at their best like this. And when it comes to blasting move straps outboard and have a go at that to ! I really dont think 99% of us would be any slower on this type of board than on such as FX`s and Isonics. ( extra comfort/control counts for a lot even in speed mode.)
Dont forget its 75cm wide and under 120 lires !!!Thats for a reason and has consequences.
If I were you I`d go for around 125 litres/68cm wide .It woulkd be far more versatile.

I think you will regret going for Isonic.I would and I enjoy going fast aswell.

Personally dont think Futura is a compromise.The Isonic would be a massive one.
But if you want one they are fantastic at doing what they were designed for.

Good luck whatever you do.

HotIce
28th December 2008, 12:46 AM
Reality is always a cruel master.

In the lower wind range every knot of wind is super critical.

Experienced Isonic sailors would be looking at 2 boards to cover your wind range.

You will be giving too much away at the bottom and top ends.

If speed was only down to a board then we could all be fast.

If you want to go fast and have fun then follow Floyds advice.

Chris Pressler
28th December 2008, 05:27 AM
In my opinion the iSONIC 122 is a great choice. We are looking for a board which works in 10 to 20 knots and carries a 9,0. Out of my experience the iSonic 122 is very easy to sail. 75 cm is a moderate width. Itīs definitely one of the iSonics, which covers the biggest windrange. Sure, the Futura would be a great alternative, but would suggest the 133.

Chris

Floyd
28th December 2008, 04:21 PM
Perhaps original poster should give a bit more info about his experience.

Chris is a sponsored sailor and I imagine weighs a good deal less than poster ? (???)
I do know he uses 3 Isonics (I believe 86;101 and 122 ) If he was packing one board on his travels I wonder what he`d take ???

10 to 20 knts doesn`t seem such a big range. In relative terms its massive.(Double windspeed) A specialised board (such as Isonic) will have a very specific range where it works fantastic. Out of that range it would be totally inappropriate. A more generalised design might not compete with Isonic in its ideal spot but would be more appropriate out of "its range".

IMHO the Isonics are not good boards to have solely.

Unregistered
28th December 2008, 06:23 PM
Hi guys,

all very interesting comments. Following Floyd's suggestion, here is a bit more of my experience:

- sailing for 16 years
- I have been sailing in lakes and sea (50x50)
- For the last 4 years I used mainly 147 and 162 Starboard formula boards and when the wind picked up I borrowed a small freeride board from a lighter friend (around 100l) which I used with my 7,5 and 6,2 sails. Participated in some local formula competitions but just for fun.
- before that I had a Maui Custom Course Race Board 150l - 70cm wide , a small F2 Ride and a 120l Mistral Explosion (I guess the boards before that don't really matter, but I also sailed the F2 lightning race board and a F2 slalom board from the 90's).
- Sails have been 6,2; 7,5; 9, and 10 (always race or freerace sails like North IQ, Neilpryde V8 and Severne Overdrive)

I do see the point from Floyd about the freeride and freemove boards and would definetely go for something like that if I have the chance to have 2 boards (big slalom or formula + 1 freemove like Mistral Syncro or *board Kombat would be great), but I have my doubts if I go for only 1 board that this is the best choice.

About my expectations:
- 1 board and 2 sails
- get going in winds from 13-20knots (eventually even up to 25knots), but being able to sail back if wind drops to something between 6-12knots.
- want to go fast and be able to get somewhat (no need for formula angles) upwind and downwind (so that I can sail to where the wind is best)
- I have tried some older and bigger freeride boards from Bic, F2 and Mistral (130-150l) but didn't like them. Found those really borring because the boards were so "stable" that you didn't feel any thrill when the wind picked up. I always had the impression the board was kind of "glued" to the water.
I have never tried the new freeride boards, but I guess one can understand why I'm a bit hesitant with the idea of having a freeride board as the only board. I have been reading that those new freeride boards can be really fast (eventually even fast enough for my skills), but what about the feeling? I like lively boards.

Hope this is enough info about my experience and expectations.
All suggestions are welcome - even if it is not a slalom board suggestion Floyd :-)

Unregistered
28th December 2008, 06:27 PM
btw, got kind of tired of formula, want something different

Chris Pressler
29th December 2008, 01:03 AM
Hi Floyd,
for 10 to 20 knots I definitely would take the 122. My weight is 84 kg.
The described profile and expectations are clear and my answer is clear, too:
iSONIC 122

This board is fast, exciting and versatile. It gets great lift, can carry bigger sails, but also works with 7,0 m. You can tune it with different finlenghts.

A good option would be the FUTURA 133, which is very fast in 2009.

Chris

Waiting4wind
29th December 2008, 08:00 PM
About my expectations:
- 1 board and 2 sails
- get going in winds from 13-20knots (eventually even up to 25knots), but being able to sail back if wind drops to something between 6-12knots.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm 89 kg so lighter, but the above requirement for recreational sailing I achieve with an IS 111 and RSS 7.8m & 6.7m, flat to choppy sea. Quite often I'll go out with the 7.8m in 10-12 knots (my planing threshold) and stay with the 7.8m in up to 20 knts sometime gusting 25. If it's above 18 knts I'l go with the 6.7m. I can't see a problem in slogging in 6-12 knots.
I also have a FU 133 which I bought for my partner to learn on. I haven't had much time on it but it doesn't seem to plane that much earlier than the IS111.

pierrec45
3rd January 2009, 11:08 PM
Sorry for being contradictory but there is no such thing as a one board solution.Its a one board (...)
I agree Floyd, but people with 3 boards say that 2 boards is a compromise, people with 4 boards... you get the scoop. So even though I agree with you, it's a mindset it seems.

I think there's is nothing wrong with going for one board that will 'catch' as many pleasurable outings as possible, be it for money reasons, storage, etc.

Mr. Unregistered Guest, have a good time with your purchase. Do stretch your outings on both ends of the wind spectrum.

Have fun on the Iso !

Unregistered
4th January 2009, 05:12 AM
WTF ?

Isn't the starting point working out what kind of board characteristics he is looking for?

Does he want a flexible wave board?, or
Does he want a flexible blasting slalom board?

How can the first post recommend an iSonic without knowing what sort of board the guy is looking for?

The answer might be something like the large Fanatic Freewave or iSonic - completely different boards.

You need to know the answer to step one first.

Screamer
4th January 2009, 06:50 AM
Guest poster #1

I also use iS122 as my all-around blasting board in 10-20 knots (86kg). I think it's the best compromise for what you want. Yes it's volume is smaller than quoted, and yes you'll have problems in 2-3 knots with a 9.0 (you'll sink), other than that you'll be fine.

However, I can see where Floyd is coming from and I respect his opinion. I'm not racing seriously, and still I prefer a full-on slalom board to a freeride (at least in this windrange - 7.5-9m sails). I have mates who hate slalom boards in that same wind range, and prefer something less locked in and more playful. I also believe that I'm faster if I keep the hammer down properly, not some minor gps 1% faster, but real-life tested, obviously faster (not to mention up- and down-wind angles). Oh and let me add that (at least with a 7.5) iSonic122 gybes WAY tighter, faster and more exciting than anyone expected from such a wide, square plank ;-)
Having said all that, I prefer to jump to a Kombat as soon as I have something resembling steady 18-20, but in described wind range I wouldn't trade iS122 for anything. But I digress.

It's really up to every single one of us to decide what type of board we want for a given wind range and water state.

fullmoon
4th January 2009, 02:48 PM
I am no expert,in fact far from it but!,,,I have a 133&111 Futura,two very different boards.I weigh 88-92 kilos and can uphaul an 8.5 Overdrive on that board if required.It is still possible to uphaul if required on the 111,just.(using a 6.5)The 133 becomes quite a handfull over 20 knots,and the 111 seems wanting below 15 (AT MY SKILL LEVEL) but I love them both.
It seems to me that a competent person at around my weight should be able to use a 122 as an all rounder.They are not a slow board,in fact far from it and I can honestly say that is were I would head if I had to choose as it will cover your sail sizes and float in light winds.(actually in no wind)
In higher winds waterstarting is the go and I would think there would only be a 2 knot max speed difference between the isonic 122 and the futura 122 with the same rider.
Regards,Fullmoon

Floyd
4th January 2009, 05:28 PM
Totally agree Fullmoon.
Futura 122 is intself already quite a dedicated speed/slalom choice.(read Boardseeker 120 litre tests)
Isonic as a oneboard solution IMO would be sverely limiting for little (if any ) gain.
Good sailor on a Futura more than a match for a poorer one on Isonic. Even more so rougher it gets.
IMO you would be selling Isonic after a season. ????

Screamer
5th January 2009, 01:12 AM
Some additional points:

1. Two knots speed difference, if you are travelling at 30, is MASSIVE (about 7%)
2. Good sailor on a Futura will most certainly beat a poorer one on an iSonic. That's not the question here, it's about the same sailor. If I would have to race myself, I would most certainly win on an iS. But even more important (to me) than top speed, is how the ride feels. With relatively big sails (8-9m) on relatively big boards, I don't see the advantages of a freeride. Imho of course.
3. About selling his iS after a season, you can't possibly know that. As I've said, some recreational sailors choose slalom boards (while others hate them), not based on marketing, but based on testing and experience.

Fair winds

steveC
5th January 2009, 02:35 AM
Given the comments back and forth about an iSonic versus a Futura, it's my impression that original poster would be most happy with the iSonic. In light of the fact that he has more recently been sailing a Formula 162, I'm sure that he's very comfortable with very outboard placed footstraps, which is arguably one of the primary features of a dedicated slalom board. While a Futura very likely have outboard settings in addition to more inboard settings, I'm thinking that the iSonic's settings are still probably more outboard overall. Also, the iSonic is going to be a lighter board which will handle a bit more lively in the wind range targeted.

Lastly, another real plus for the iSonic would be fins. Although a Futura can be setup with dedicated slalom fins, I tend to doubt that the it would offer the same kind of performance overall.

Ultimately, I guess it comes down to whether the iS122 or iS133 would be best. To discern which one would be better depends on the consistency and strength of the wind. If it averages more often in 10-13 knots range, the iS133 seems more the best choice. On the other hand, if it averages more often in the 15-20 knot range, the iS122 stand out as the better choice.