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crazychemical
16th January 2009, 09:27 PM
See title ... i've been looking at formula-ish boards for a while; and mainly at their sailrange which in all brands is very limited compared to slalom and freeride boards. But then i came onto the F-type which has a much larger sailrange and a much more user friendly shape then formula boards. But after 06 it's gone from the range. Now the Formula experience looks like fun too but has that same sailrange limitation as the other normal formulas ... was the F-type integrated in the IS range??? or simply dismissed from the SB range all in all?

Phill104
17th January 2009, 12:42 AM
The large Isonics will do the trick for you. I have a 133 but have sailed the larger ones. Great sail range and similar in many ways to the F-type.

prpa
17th January 2009, 05:11 AM
Look for iSonic150, even if you compare dimensions you will see that
there are very small diferences between F-Type and iSonic150.

James
17th January 2009, 05:50 AM
Ditto prpa. The iS 150 isn't class legal for slalom 4-2, so it's more aimed for recreational sailors like the F-types.

One of the big futuras would probably work really well for what you want, too.

crazychemical
17th January 2009, 03:24 PM
still doesn't seem like a good replacement. The IS150 is less wide and has a smaller sailrange compared to the F-type 148 (5.5-10.5, it being a formla-ish board you could probably pull off 11.5 vs 7.5-11.5). furthermore it's less wide (93 vs 96) and less wide at tail (67 vs 65). So i don't think it'll be such a comparable replacement...
too bad cuz the F-type seemed like a fun lightwind board..

Screamer
18th January 2009, 01:05 PM
Crazy

Have you tried both boards you're comparing, with different sail combos? I don't think you can evaluate performance based on 2cm width difference.
Also I'm not sure what do you mean with these sail ranges. Imho, quoted ranges are always too optimistic anyway.

Yes sometimes we really like a certain board and then it goes out of production. But then again maybe we are spoilt by overwhelming choice nowadays. You have a Formula, FormulaExperience, Go, iS150, F155. I'd say that's enough for large rigs/lightwind fun.
Take your pick.

Jean-Marc
18th January 2009, 05:13 PM
Haiko,

Width per se is not the sole criterion to categorize a hull. The new iSonic 150 is a XXL slalom board whereas the old F-Types were more like freeformula. This program difference can be seen with tail and rail thickness, as sorted in the following decreasing order : Formula = FE > F-Type >iSonic 150.
Check out some pictures here : http://www.star-board.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5186

What sails size are you gonna use on such a big board ? Wind/water conditions for your 95 kg?

Cheers !

JM

crazychemical
18th January 2009, 06:01 PM
it's not really for me, it's for my dad that i'm doing some exploring. He's 10 K less then me and he's a stubborn man. He doesn't want to change boards when the wind picks up. i've seen him use 4.7 on his mistral NTrance board which he loves becose of it's early planning (W: 90 L :300) but it's a beginner board and he's not progressing anymore (big railwidth so the board is like impossible to waterstart and because of it's lenth and volume it's hard to jibe). Also we often sail low wind, so my most used sail, untill i moved to a Holland close to a spot, was my 7.6 which i used for cruising, untill i bought a 8.8 which is when i'm with dad, my most used sail (and his). But still he gets half the planning days i do and i was thinking that in sight of the current range the next sail should be something around 11 m or 11.5. But neighter my GO nor his NTrance can rig that so i started looking at other boards. I found the risk of putting him on an IS too big because of his skill level and i was afraid we'd have the same problem with a Rio or a GO as we did with the NTrance (too big, too thick, too long). Further more, like i sail, dad likes a one board fits all. He's a good sailor and can controle his boards for impressive periods of time mainly cuz he never sails too overpowered unlike me who likes to push his limits and go to smal manouvrable speedy boards whenever opportunity shows).
Then came that dad never like the GO, because of it's lesser width it's harder to get into plane so i thought, fine, we'll go wide. Looknig at formulas i thout he'd hate them cuz of the footstrapsettings. Also they have sailranges that he's dislike beucause he sails every sail on that board (from 5.5 to 11.5 ... omg recommended sailrange for F-type). So i found the F-type but it was abolished after 06 ... and i coudldn't find the propper replacement ... the IS150 is closed in line so i guess we'll have to take a closer look at that board ...
thx for the reply's dudes.

James
19th January 2009, 12:06 AM
With more time on the water, and perhaps sailing with some other old guys, your dad may get the self-motivation to improve. Until then, you should just be thankful he is cool enough to sail with you, and not bug him about riding the Ntrance all the time. :)

Whenever I try to push my stubborn, 64-year-old dad onto a board or windsurfing situation that he's not comfortable with, it backfires. It's the exact parallel of the situation 20 years ago when he was trying to get me interested in windsurfing!

steveC
19th January 2009, 12:21 AM
crazychemical,

You might want to look into the Futura 155, given its multiple footstrap positions. Although the sail range is a little smaller than you're looking for, it still seems like an interesting candidate to consider. Also, its durability would be an extra plus over the iS150.

Jean-Marc
19th January 2009, 02:45 AM
Haiko,

OK, your dad wants more planing TOW. Fair enough. What's the wind range he's aiming at with his 85 kg weight ?

SteveC made a very good point. How would you describe the skills of your father : expert, advanced, intermediate or beginner? Harness, footstraps, jibing and waterstart 100% proficient or still working on some problems? Be honnest with your assessment, especially when you said "but it's a beginner board and he's not progressing anymore (big railwidth so the board is like impossible to waterstart and because of it's lenth and volume it's hard to jibe)."

I fear the iSonic is a true race-slalom machine whereas the Futura might be more freeride user-friendly and easier to make progress on, so a bit of caution about going after an iSonic wouldn't hurt if your dad still appreciates the gentle manners of the NTrance entry-level board ( similar to the Rio L entry-level).

WRT sail size, I'm sorry but it's a bit unclear tome. What are his own sail size range he's currently using ? Types of sails (racing/freerace/freeride)?
Has he tried your 8.8m2 sail yet ? Happy or not happy with that sizing and handling ?
Has he tried a jumbo 10+ sqm sail yet ? Is he skilled enough to pump such a big sail in low wind and be happy about the handling?

Cheers !

JM

crazychemical
20th January 2009, 12:47 AM
level: beginner intermediate
current TOW: 14 days a year max (cuz of the crap winds he tends to catch when he's out)
sailrange: my sails so 4.2-8.8 but considering that he's never caught a 4.7 day i'd say more like 5.5-8.8
most used sail is a 6.2 but thats mainly my fault cuz i claim the bigger sails.
he tried the 8.8 which is full cambered and liked it a lot except the bottom camber doesn't flip. He hasn't tried bigger but he's a quick study and in great shape.
My recommendations to him would be to go 6.2-11 to maximise his TOW.
In the end, it's up to him and i won't bug him too much about it seeing as he lives far from a spot and investing is really a thing of break and replace for him. But he talked about moving closer to a low wind spot so i was looking around a bit.
my curiosity simply snapped when i saw this Ftype for sale and couldn't find it in later boardranges anymore.

thx for the tips dudes

i'm going to heat myself up now, the water was freezing today (4C) and i spend a lot of time in it cuz the wind fell.

Jean-Marc
20th January 2009, 10:42 PM
Haiko,

As a "beginner intermediate with current TOW of only 14 days a year max", I frankly don't see your dad making huge waterstarting and jibing progress on an iSonic 155 with an 11m2 sail. This is really too big a step IMvvvHO.

I would look more into the GO 175 kind of board that are specifically designed for beginner/intermediate wanting to make easy progresses and improve their skills on a user-friendly board, but that is yet not ridiculous at all for an advanced skilled rider to go chasing light/medium wind puffs with a freerace 2-3 cambered 10.x sail as skills further and further improve on the same gear.

Forget the racing-slalom gear for a while IMvvvHO. I will ask for Roger to churn in his invaluable opinion here. Please, stay tuned.

Cheers !

JM

Roger
21st January 2009, 06:49 AM
Hi CC and JM,
I pretty much agree with Jean-Marc here.
The big Isonic has the float, and with a skilled rider, it goes in very light winds, but
one of the larger GO boards or the larger Futura's (they are the same shape I think, just
different constructions and weight....i.e. Toughskin (very heavy and durable) vs Technora (lighter with good durability) or Wood (lightest, with similar durability to the Technora.
If your beginner/intermediate dad is not progressing on the NTrance (very heavy and fairly narrow) the Go or Futura 155 (similar rockerline with the Isonics) would make alot more sense to me.
Just because it's an Isonic is not really the problem, but durability issues may be.
I'd vote for the lightest Futura 155 you can afford, or the Go 175 (which he will "outgrow" sooner).
At his skill level, I'd invest in a nose guard for sure as moving to larger sails normally means more "trips over the front" and damage to the nose of the board.
As far as rig size, if he's most comfortable on a 6.2 m2 I wouldn't saddle him with larger than a 7.5 m2 (especially if he's wanting to learn to waterstart and jibe) until he has a few more skills mastered with the smaller rig.
85 Kg. is not that heavy, and if you invest in a 7.5-8.5 m2 free race (3 cams or less or better still a no cam) rig with really good low end characteristics, the difference in early planing (vs 10.0 + m2) won't be much, but he'll be much more likely to pick up water starts, beach starts, and elementary flare jibes.
Sails I would suggest are the Sailworks Retro or the Severne NCX.
Or if you want a super powerful 7.5-8.5 with a cam or 2 look at the Severne Glide.
Low wind power (grunt) is what your dad needs in a light weight easy to handle rig, on a
significantly wider board than the NTrance, and without the added weight of the centerboard.
Oh, is he still using the centerboard to stay upwind?
He needs to get beyond "centerboard dependency" before working on waterstarts and flare jibes.
In any case, for a sailor at your dad's level, in not very windy conditions, wider is better, but the lighter weight is better also.
155 liters is more than enough vollume.
Hope this helps,