PDA

View Full Version : f160


Unregistered
26th January 2009, 07:45 PM
hallo people,
I used sail and compete in FW since 2002.Owned 158,159,161,162.This season changed usual sail brand (still using a top one) and had less training on fw/162.Plus haven't bought one of that $$ Kashy's.
In the end I wasn't happy of my stuff and sold the 162.Now I'm complainting to have sold my trusy and beloved 161...
Just found a good shape 160.It's still able to win so guess that buying it should be a good idea.Isn't it?
As I've never owned it can you tell me what's the difference with the 161?
I own the "classic" R 19-17-13 and couple of Birdi's.Do you think they're going to work on 160?Just to know,what was the fin used lately by Wilhem in Miami?

sergio k
27th January 2009, 02:29 AM
hallo people,
I used sail and compete in FW since 2002.Owned 158,159,161,162.This season changed usual sail brand (still using a top one) and had less training on fw/162.Plus haven't bought one of that $$ Kashy's.
In the end I wasn't happy of my stuff and sold the 162.Now I'm complainting to have sold my trusy and beloved 161...
Just found a good shape 160.It's still able to win so guess that buying it should be a good idea.Isn't it?
As I've never owned it can you tell me what's the difference with the 161?
I own the "classic" R 19-17-13 and couple of Birdi's.Do you think they're going to work on 160?Just to know,what was the fin used lately by Wilhem in Miami?

from what I know Kashy, check www.formulawindsurfing.org /miamiwindsurfing.com
etc. for more details, I think, what Kashy fins will give you is a better overall
range, if $$ is a real issue you can buy a used Kashy fins or go for Ifju or Finworks, all very popular in Miami and used with success

gre-969
27th January 2009, 03:16 PM
I have both boards 160 & 162,
the ideal fin for the SB 160 is the DB R13 soft rake 8 & 6 ,
and if your weight is under 80 kg. a soft (-) fin is working good as well untill 15 knots .
In strong winds over 20 knots a medium R13 70 rake 4-6 is perfect with a 10 m sail.
The SB160 is still competitive compare to the new boards in medium to high winds and very easy to use .

www.formula-windsurfing-association.gr:)

Unregistered
27th January 2009, 04:20 PM
what's the difference between 160 and 161?
When one is better then other?
Weight 80 kg....

SeanAUS120
29th January 2009, 07:02 AM
Not sure if you can say one is "better" than the other; they are just very different boards.

The 160, is smaller in the tail compared to the 161 (77.9cm vs 80.7cm at 1ft off). The nose is much thicker and more blunt/rounded whereas on the 161 they thinned the nose a lot more and made the corners a lot more pronounced. I haven't measured this but from sailing them both I think the 160 has slightly more scoop rocker and sits a little higher in the water.

What that all means is...

In super strong winds, a lot more people prefer the 161 going upwind, because a wider tail means you have more leverage and can push harder against the fin - keeping you in control and also allows you to run a bigger fin with better control (maybe the difference between hanging on to a 70cm or changing down to a 68cm fin). Downwind however, a smaller tail is arguably better at it gives you more control and loads the fin less - having less load on the fin makes downwind sailing more comfortable (just like having a fin with a lot of twist does that same thing).

It was widely considered that the 160 was a better choice overall in med/high winds in choppy conditions because of the tail width and also with a little more scoop in the nose, the 160 used to catch the chop a little less than the 161 downwind. In lightwinds, I personally believe the 161 is a far better choice; a wider tail means you can power the fin more, use a bigger fin, and use a bigger sail. Which is why the 162 (and all other brands' boards for that matter) have got wider tails again this year.

80kg is bang on 'middle weight', so one board wouldn't be better than the other based on the weight. I would just ask myself, do I want to have better lightwind abilities at the expense of slight speed differences downwind in +25 knots? -- then get the 161. Or do you want a better 'all round' board that is arguably not as quick in certain niche condtions like lightwinds and then 'upwind' in strongwinds -- then get the 160.

To be honest. I believe there is the same potential with both of them are if you have the right settings and tuning.

Unregistered
29th January 2009, 04:07 PM
thanks Sean,
I totally agree with your statements.

Do you think that a "good" fin could help the 160 to reach the same performance of the 161 in light air?If I think at Wilhem Miami race I'd say yes!

If you have to compare your Vapor board with both 161 and 160 what would you say?Is it a board "only for Kashy's"?

I'm going to compete mostly in light wind this coming season and that's why I was thinking at the F2 Z... how about it?

SeanAUS120
3rd February 2009, 11:00 AM
I couldn't really say 'any' board is a board 'only' for Kashy's; because I don't have Kashy fins!

I can say that the Vapor, 160 and 161 (as well as the F2 Z) will all benefit from one of these newer, super-soft and more torsionally-stiff fins, whether they be a Kashy, VMG Blade, Deb R20 or Hurricane or whatever ... the trick is in finding the right fin to trim the board how you like it, taking in mind your body size and technique and the conditions you are sailing in.

I would argue that with the best fin for all boards being used, the 161 would still have a tiny advantage over the 160 in lightwinds and then the Vapor board would have a little more advantage again over both. This is all to do with the tail width. The Vapor is the widest, then the 161, then 160 and that extra width allows you to put more leverage against the fin and create more lift in lighter winds. The actual performance differences would be small, but it’s enough. That shouldn’t be your only concern when deciding on a board however, because a lot of boards require a really specific fin and others don’t. For example, I believe the F162 is one of the best boards this season, but if you don’t have a fin that takes advantage of its shape then the performance appears to be compromised; whereas the 160 seems to go quite well no matter what fin you put in it. The Vapor works with any fin as well, and to a lesser extent, the 161. Certainly, the 160 is still capable of winning races in lightwinds against the 161/Vapor, so Wilhelm is probably right in saying the 160 can still do well against the 161 in light air, but if you wanted to compare actual performance ‘potential', you have to look at the shapes of the boards and I think the tail width alone is enough to say the 161 could be better, without getting more into details about the subtle differences of the bottom shapes.

Now, the F2-Z is a whole new story. I haven't got the specs but from memory I think the OFO tail-width is about 8cm wider than any other board on the planet! Dennis Littel was using an 83cm cutdown Kashy in Europe last season on this board. With that width and the ability to harness such massive fins, there's really no board (in my opinion) that comes close to the F2's performance in lightwinds. The only way to beat one around the course is that they're not as fast/comfortable downwind from what I've seen and they become more difficult to manage as the wind gets up.

I believe the Starboards/Vapor to be better ‘all-round’ boards than the F2’s, which are far superior in their niche winds (<15 knots).

That being said, just buy whichever one you can get the best price on and don’t read too much in to the ‘tiny’ differences between the boards. In the past 3 seasons of FW the boards (and sails for that matter) have become so user-friendly with similar performance that it really doesn’t matter what gear you are riding; all that’s left is your tuning and your tactics. Take that one-design! :-P

misterwednesday
3rd February 2009, 01:40 PM
what about the exocet black machine formula. how does it compared to the *boards?

gre-969
3rd February 2009, 07:25 PM
what about the exocet black machine formula. how does it compared to the *boards?

I think this question you should do to Gonzalo at the
http://www.exocet-original.com/forum/default.asp

He is a specialist on Exo board, so he can tell you the difference 100 %.

sergio k
4th February 2009, 01:42 AM
He looked real good on exo formula, on first day of practice in Miami, he was outplaining/
outpointing in light winds everyone, and there was a mix of F2/F2-Z/ML/SB/Gaastra

I think this question you should do to Gonzalo at the
http://www.exocet-original.com/forum/default.asp

He is a specialist on Exo board, so he can tell you the difference 100 %.

Ken
4th February 2009, 04:55 AM
It was the sails he was using - Maui Sails TR-5's, not Gaastra.

JayBeeJB
4th February 2009, 06:42 AM
I think this question you should do to Gonzalo at the
http://www.exocet-original.com/forum/default.asp

He is a specialist on Exo board, so he can tell you the difference 100 %.

The fact that Gonzo is sponsored by Exocet means you will NOT get an unbiased opinion. Every Pro will tell you that their sponsors equipment is the best, that is what they are paid to do.

I know that Sean (AUS120) has sailed the Exocet, and he will give an unbiased opinion of its performance (if he decides to take the time to write a review), as he did for the Starboard (whom he is not sponsored by either).

JB

carlosgp5
4th February 2009, 07:43 PM
Not my plan to change the topic, but... Any of you guys have an opinion about the 160 tuffskin (FE) ?
I am thinking on joining the FE class, but donīt like very much that heavy board and the very weak aluminum boom...
Just let me know if I should create a new topic...

Unregistered
4th February 2009, 09:15 PM
If you want to race in a fair level fun class, with stable rules, and have a lot of fun, go to FE.
Severne released a very good alloy boom, the only thing I didn't like is the maximum size (270cm), so you can only use it almost with their sail (nothing wrong with that) in the 11.0 sail size.
If you don't want to pay thousands in some expensive fins just to be ALMOST at top level, you should buy a FE board right now.
HELP to promote FE in your country, the class can SAVE the racing part of windsurfing for the amateur , weekend, non-sponsored sailors.
I race FE and have a lot of fun.
The board is very very good (160) and bullet proof, plane almost as early as the wood version and is CHEAPPER, you can use the same board until 2014 when the board shape might change, rules are freeze for 4 years.
So, GO TO FE!!! LONG LIFE TO FE!!

carlosgp5
5th February 2009, 12:28 AM
Eae unregistered,
Is anybody selling this new long-lasting boom? There are some good FE sailors down here in SC, but every time that I get out with my old board/sail/carbon boom I see somebody coming out with 1 piece of boom on each hand. Doesnīt matter wich brand, chinook, maui, the alloy HPL doesnīt fit I think. I ve never seen one of those severne...
Is the one that should be de FOD ? Do you have any links of somebody selling it?

Remi
5th February 2009, 04:48 AM
Hi Carlosgp5,

The Star-Board FOD boom is not on the market but you have the same on Severne web site : http://www.severnesails.com/2009/products/boom_alurace.php

For sure is the key to grow the FE Class en enjoy it!!!

All the best

carlosgp5
5th February 2009, 07:13 PM
Hi Remi,
As soon as I find a second hand FE somewhere I will join the class...
The prices down here, to a class that should be cheap, are still expensive. For example a used 161, is cheaper then a brand new FE. Not only cheaper, its 500 US cheaper. That makes me think a lot, as I just love to ride these wood boards.
But thanks for the tip about the boom anyway. I hope it gets here sometime.
Cheers

Unregistered
5th February 2009, 11:36 PM
Dear Carlos,
Keep in mind that this cheap 161 can be in poor conditions, you can't just think: Well, the used 161 is cheppaer than a new FE board, depends on the conditions it's a fair price, did yo look at that 161? it's a 2 year old board at mimimum.
You live in SC, go to www.camboriuwind.com.br, talk to Neves and he can find you an used FE in good condition, they have one right now for sale.
You can order that boom from Marcelo Morrone at www.katanka.com.br, I think he's already taking orders for that boom.
Go to FE!!

carlosgp5
6th February 2009, 12:06 AM
Who are you? You sound pretty superb, if you know what I mean.
I am after a second hand board with neves, who is helping me to find it out.
Even though I am just a begginer with a couple years of windsurfing, I am not a retarded, of course that depends on the conditions of the 161 my dear unregistered. Dontītry to teach the priest how to pray.
Just to let you know that, to some people, 4000 U$ for all the FE gear might not be too much. As the world is not that fair, me, an avid racer wasnīt born in a golden bed with diamonds around, and equipment is really a limit because of its cost.
Thats why I use these forums, and try to learn and understand before I do something that represents a lot in my pocket.
Maybe I should just keep riding my old hobie...

Unregistered
6th February 2009, 01:35 AM
Well, that's what you get when you try to help an idiot.
Good winds, be happy.

carlosgp5
6th February 2009, 02:36 AM
Talk to a mirror then you get an idiot.
Easy to call somebody an idiot being anonym.

Crash
6th February 2009, 03:28 AM
Remi is the R20 +6 a good fin for the 160? I weigh 75 kilos using Point 7 AC-2 9.7 meter or Tushingham Spitfire 12.5 meter. I just couldnt get the FE version here in the UK though it was my first choice.
My other fins area 40cm weed fin or a DEb R17 +6 soft.

Crash

Remi
6th February 2009, 04:43 PM
Hi Crash,

I never try this fin ont the 160, but it's the plan soon, must be good. 12,5 make no sense for your weight, the 9,7 or max a 11mē is enough.

I never try weed fins on Formula, but sure the R17 is a good choice.

All the best

Unregistered
6th February 2009, 05:02 PM
[QUOTE=Remi;29700]

I never try this fin ont the 160, but it's the plan soon, must be good.

Hi Remi,

I have 160 too,and want to purchase new fin.My question is R13 S-- or R20.
So please try R20 on *bord 160 ASAP.

Thank you

gre-969
7th February 2009, 12:48 AM
R13 S-- only if you are max. 75 kg, if you are heavier, than the R20 is your Fin.

SeanAUS120
11th February 2009, 08:45 AM
Back to the earlier question re the Exocet FW board ...

I've sailed it a few times; general differences between the *boards and Exo is that the Exo is wider in the tail (more than the 162 I think? and definitely wider than 161/16), flatter in its rocker-line (its insanely flat) and its super-light (pretty sure the one I sailed was around 8.5kg WITH STRAPS.

Upwind it was a rocket ship. With the right settings (straps/track way in the back) and a good, upright, powerful fin, the flatter rocker line gives you a lot of power upwind and speed. I find sometimes boards with large kick in the nose can be somewhat slow upwind as they aren't always at the optimal trim angle to the water. The 162, which (isn't flat, but "sails" flat) also sails flat feels very nice upwind for the same reason. The Exo has a wider tail and as a result you can keep the track back even in strong winds with no worries about control which is great for speed and the fact that it is so light means the early planing ability is fantastic!

Only downside was its volume. It feels small, cause it is. I struggled with a 12m on it. I think Gonzo is using a 12m, but it seems to sink the board a little and felt slower to get on the plane than the *boards/Gaastra etc. The other thing is downwind this board is a lot more technical to sail. Because it is so flat it really catches every wave and slows down on the downwinds. So to counteract that you need a lot of power in your sail, a fin that is raked back more to lift the nose, and to keep the track all the way in the back to help lift the nose.

Gonz has mentioned on the Exo forums he's using Kashy's with 5 deg rake. That's quite swept back compared to most of us using 3-4 degrees on most Deb/Hurricane/VMG whatever fins (3 degrees is close to +8cm on Deb's scale). The extra rake (fin is less upright) allows the nose of the board to lift.

My conclusion. Exo is one of the fastest boards upwind and planes super early, however its at the expense of being more difficult to sail downwind and probably might be more fin-specific in that sense to get the performance downwind.

Never tried an FE board? Don't have them in Australia.

honk
11th February 2009, 11:46 AM
We had a local event last weekend with 15 -20knots wind. Glad to see most guys were on 162 . Some interesting observation on the fins. It seems that R13 RF8 S-- seems to be climbing higher compare to the R20 at the expenses of poor downwind.

It seems that for all Formulas out there, The performance can be altered by the FIN. For the same board if you put a fin that helps to climb high , it will have problem going deep. If the board design by itself is more user friendly , it will help in the overall wind range or performance if you choose the right fin to suit yr sailing stance.

raffig
11th February 2009, 06:39 PM
Hello,
Anybody has the contact details / e-mail for VMG Blades fins in Australia?
Thanks!

Chris Ting
11th February 2009, 09:44 PM
Thanks for enquiring about VMG Blades. Right now we don't have a website as we are in the early stages of setting up.

To contact us please use vmgblades@gmail.com

Thanks

Chris Ting

Unregistered
11th February 2009, 11:46 PM
Don't you guys at VMG have an web-site?

SeanAUS120
21st February 2009, 08:00 AM
No website I think.

But I've recently done an interview with Chris on the new www.CarbonSugar.com (http://www.CarbonSugar.com).