Phantom 320 Daggerboard Stiff

[Philsurf]

Hello Team, Starboard Philippines here trying to help out a customer who just received his 2009 Phantom 320. The Daggerboard is extremely hard to deploy and retract using the foot. Had to drop the sail in the water and actuate by hand and even that was stiff. Any suggestions? Does the daggerboard box have some kind of friction adjustment. Another problem is when fully retracted the knob depresses the pedal unlocking the mast track mechanism!!! Any help is much appreciated.

[andretsin]

Hello,
I'm not from the team, but i'm here already 2 months and the team seem to be disapeared so i'm going to try to help you. I have phantom race 380 from 2008. My daggerboard is also very hard to put down and up. I think one solution would be to brush the rubbers. I didn't do it, but i read it somewere. I just got used to the stiffness and the lips became also a little bit softer, so nowadays i'm able to do it with my feet, or sometimes helping with one hand while i hold the sail with the other out of the watter. But this is not good method for a competition, is takes too much time. So i guess the best is to brush a little bit the lips or maybe to put vaseline there.
I don't have the problem you said with the knob and track. Can you try to act in the pedal pressing the knob (wich would press the pedal) and not directly the pedal?
I hope this helps. Bye

[Philsurf]

Thanks for sharing your experience on the subject Andretsin! What kind of brush did you use? Anyone else out there that can help? Remi? Roger??

[Remi]

Hi Philsurf,

I didn't recomand to brush it.

The better way is to use tephlon, silicone, this give you good results.

All the best

[Ken]

As Remi says, use silicone.

When I raced an Equipe II XR in the old days, I used a silicone jell to spread on the gasket to facilitate easy movement of the dagger board (stays on longer than a spray). However, it looks like the Phantom may have a more serious problem. I could always move the daggerboard on the Equipe with my foot even without the silicone. The silicone just made it easier.

[jnassr2000]

I have a 2009 Phantom 320 and am having great difficulty in deploying and retracting the dagger board. In a race, using the dagger board would be more trouble than it should. I will try silicone as suggested by Remi though I fear it will wash off at a critical time when I need it most.

I however feel that a better solution is for Starboard to consider retrofitting the Phantom with dagger board gasket made of a more slippery material. The present gasket is not quite as compatible with the dagger board material, as say, the slippery compatibility of my easy to use 2009 Rio's dagger board with its supplied gasket.

John

[Ken]

I am sure that everyone that races longboards knows that when pointing high in strong winds with the daggerboard loaded, adjusting the dagger is very hard, even if it moves easily when un-loaded. The dagger must be easy to move or you will have a bunch of very unhappy racers.

Is this a gasket problem or is there too much friction between the dagger and the well?

[Mike T]

Phil
This might be a silly question but have you tried to remove the dagger board and the cassette (clipperbox) to see if the pivot point is okay. I have not seen a Phantom 320 but after having messed with Equipe and superlight dagger boards it sounds like the daggerboard isn't in the cassette correctly. Especially since you said the knob on the end of the dagger board is hitting the mast track pedal. I would see if you or the dealer can remove the centerboard cassette and dagerboard and make sure it is installed correctly and that it isnt damaged. On the Mistral dagger boards if one of the pivot pins got cracked the board wouldnt go down or come back up due to it be out of the grove that is molded into the cassette. I would probably take the cassette out and see if everything is okay with it. Good luck! Mike

[Roger]

Hi Philsurf,
I'd try a couple of things to make the daggerboard? (retractable centerboard actually)
more easy to deploy and retract.
First, as suggested, take the screws out of the deck plate and examine the pivot points,
the bushings/bearing areas where the pivot points seat, and the "stopper" that prevents the CB from retracting too far.
The fact that the handle hits the deck when the CB is fully retracted is a good clue that the "stopper" is not adjusted or installed correctly.
I have a Rio M with pretty much the same CB cassette (I think) and I needed to take the deck plate off and make sure that the CB had enough clearance to move up and down in the cassette freely.
Perhaps a few strokes with a file on the "tight spots" would free it up.
Also, for a "lubricant" (that does not attract and hold sand and other foreign particles)
use a bar of soap.
When you have the cassette opened up, rub a bar of bath tub soap over everything!
Then before you go out each tme, rub the areas of the CB that contact the lips of the gaskets with the bar of soap. Also "lube" the lips of the CB gasket in the bottom of the board with the bar of soap.
Also, with the stiff gaskets that they've decided to use on these boards, it's necessary to make sure the CB comes all the way up through the gasket for it's entire length.
If the CB sticks through the gasket at all, it's nearly impossible to move it either up or down.
Stepping down on the back of the handle, with the CB nearly all the way up, so it comes
completely inside the cassette and isn't "trapped" by extending partially through the gasket is a pretty necessary thing to do.
Also, if this CB cassette has the plastic "guides" on the sides, and the plastic "lock mechanism" (either all the way up or all the way down in 2 "detents") make sure the plastic parts are fully seated in the sides of the cassette and they are "retained" from
moving inward and interfering with the free operation of the CB.
Hope this helps,

[andretsin]

Hello, as i said, i have phantom 380 from 2008. I'm almost sure is a problem of the rubbers, not the box itself. Maybe is because the gasket was tested in Thailand, where the water i guess is arround 20-25ºC, but i sail in athlantic north were the water is 10ºC, so maybe this is hardening the rubbers. (I can perfectly feel how more difficult is to put on my ski boots on specially cold days, because the plastic gets less flexible.) I don't thing to brush them is such a bad idea. But only the necesary, because the harder they are, better surface you have for planning. If they are too soft you would have too much water intake.

[tonymatta]

I Just received my phantom 320 (09 model) two days ago. The dagger was hard to deploy and retract.

Re Rogers comments: the dager casing doesn't have the clipperbox plastic components and stopers that are advertised in the catalogue. The side plates are two flat aluminium plates. The instalation guide that came with the board showed the cliperbox also but that is not what is on the board. The dager does come up until hits the deck or at least the pedal that actuates the mast track. The fully deployed stoper consists of a pin through the top of the dager that hits the deck surface. It is very similar to the RSX system.

The clipperbox worked very well on my Zclass board. I wonder why it was changed?
I found the RSX system worked well on my RSX board also. It would have been nice to receive the board with the dager movement functioning corectly. It does spoil the exitment of geting the new toy.

I found that the friction was in fact between the plates and the dager. I sanded down dager surface where it comes in contact with the side plates to give it a bit more clearance and it now works quite well, only stiking ocasionaly.(perhaps needs a little more sanding.)

I tried the soap sugestion before sanding but it didn't help much. I could see from the scratches on the dager surface that these was too much contact and it always stuck part way down, not when there was maximum contact with the rubber.

The dager hiting the mast track release pedal is a bit of a problem causing inadvertant moving of the mast position when I retract the dager. It is advertised in the catalogue as an advantage but I have found it more of a problem. The pedal is wide enough to operate without having to push on the dager.

After my first days racing on the phantom 320, I am very pleased with board (exept the above complaints). While I am not an expert racer, I was able to go much faster upwind and downwind on it than on either my RSX or Zclass. the wind was 12 to 20knots at different times of the day and I was using an old 8.5m r-type sail.

One other problem is the footstraps. I had heard comments about it in the forum before with the straps constantly shrinking back down after setting them to a large size. I like them looser since I sail with rubber boots on. Do I need to reeplace them or will they stretch out fairly quickly?

[jnassr2000]

Hi,

I finally found and tested a cheap and totally effective way to solve the stiff daggerboard articulation that I have been bedeviled with since I got my new Phantom 320!!

I applied three coats of carnuba wax (used to polish cars) on both the daggerboard and gasket seal. I applied one coat first and let it harden full before polishing it with a soft cloth. Then I applied two more successive coats in an identical manner and buffed the final coat to a deep luster.

I have taken my board out to sea all day for three full days and the daggerboard still works smoothly and effortlessly as it should. Before the waxing it used to be nearly impossible to deploy and retract.

John