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JD111
8th February 2009, 10:23 PM
Hi All,

I am after some advice regarding a number of cracks in the fin box of my 2006 S-Type 126 (pics attached). There are about 7-8 hairline cracks in various places (in the fin box) which generally run from the bolt holes. Two of the cracks run up the front and back (one at the front and one at the back) of the fin box and both run about 3mm onto the hull. Another two cracks run the full distance between the bolt holes. It is hard to gauge how deep the cracks are, but they are not scratches...

Should I be concerned about these cracks? Do they need to be fixed? Is this a common problem?.. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

nonopr
9th February 2009, 12:52 AM
looks like you have put so much force in your fin screws that the under layer of glass and carbon has given up. Definitely is something that involve the force used to screw your fin.
It might be also that the alligment with the screw holes and the board holes are not spot on and the screws are rubbing against the side wal of the screw holes. Many stories have been circulating in the forum that the fin box holes in many boards are not lined up and people had to file a bit of material in the holes to line them up..
I have 3 isonic boards all different sizes and one of them I had to this to be able to line up the screw with the fin hole once the fin inside the box.

JD111
9th February 2009, 08:28 PM
Hi Nonopr,

Thank you for your response and suggestions. I actually just bought this board on an auction site. It was described as 'as new condition' with the exception of a small ding that was clearly photographed and described. Once I received the board I could see some damage around the fin box and the stress fractures within the fin box, which were not described in the correspondence with the previous owner.

As suggested, I checked the fin bolt alignment with the bolt holes and everything looks to be aligned correctly, the nuts in the fin are aligned dead center with a several mm gap between where the outer surface of the bolt would be and the surface of the bolt hole. I guess that the previous owner just applied too much force.....

In your experience are the stress fractures that are pictured in the previously attached images likely to cause any problems... is it ok to use the board as is or should this damage be fixed before I use the board....

Thank you

Mike T
9th February 2009, 11:11 PM
Hi JD
I have a couple of questions? How does the deck of the board look between the fin bolt holes? Also do you see any other cracks in the sides or the front or rear sections of the fin box? Here is a good check to see if you have a major problem or a minor one. Close off the vent screw and put the board in the sun. Let the board get hot and then put some Kids bubble blowing soap Or soapie water on the fin box If the fin box is leaking to the core then it will make more bubbles as the core is outgassing thru the cracks in the fin box. It's time for a new fin box. Clean out the fin box with Alcohol to get rid of the soap and water let it dry for a day or two. If it isn't then you could fix the cracks with penatrating epoxy ( very low viscosity epoxy) You need something that will flow into those small cracks. plug the holes with some soft foam (Foam Ear Plugs Work great) Leave a little space at the bottom of the holes so that some excess epoxy will flow into the holes this will seal the holes. Then lay a narrow strip of 4oz carbon and 4oz S glass layed into the bottom of the fin box to reinforce the bottom of the screw holes. Use only enought epoxy to saturate the carbon and then lay in the S glass and add only small amount of epoxy until the glass turns clear. Make sure it's pushed to the bottom of the fin box (a small brush works well for that and let it cure. Try to keep the epoxy of the sides of the fin box. Then once cured remove the foam plugs and using a small drill bit drill thru the carbon and S glass and then use a round file or some rolled up sand paper to get the hole to the original size. That way you don't enlarge the original holes. If your not comfortable with doing a repair then please take it to someone. Good luck hope this helps. Mike

nonopr
10th February 2009, 12:13 AM
Hi Nonopr,

Thank you for your response and suggestions. I actually just bought this board on an auction site. It was described as 'as new condition' with the exception of a small ding that was clearly photographed and described. Once I received the board I could see some damage around the fin box and the stress fractures within the fin box, which were not described in the correspondence with the previous owner.

As suggested, I checked the fin bolt alignment with the bolt holes and everything looks to be aligned correctly, the nuts in the fin are aligned dead center with a several mm gap between where the outer surface of the bolt would be and the surface of the bolt hole. I guess that the previous owner just applied too much force.....

In your experience are the stress fractures that are pictured in the previously attached images likely to cause any problems... is it ok to use the board as is or should this damage be fixed before I use the board....

Thank you

I am not sure if in the future there will be any problems related to this cracks, but you never know.
Usually the box is a separate part from the board and if there is some damage you can take it to a professional board repair guy and they can fix it no problem.
I just be worried if the cracks appear in top of your board in the area where the fin box is located, that would mean than the fin box is going to fail. But the way it looks this might just be superficial. I hope. I dont think that having the board in the sun for a while and then putting some water and soap in the fin box will reveal anything , but that test is not going to cost you any money, so I will try that just in case the fin box is allowing water to sip in the board. Make sure when you put water and soap there are not to many bubbles already in the mixture, that way you see the actual bubbles forming if the box.
Good luck.

JD111
11th February 2009, 08:58 AM
Hi Mike/Nonopr,

Thank you very much for your detailed responses.....

The deck of the board between the bolt holes looks fine, there are no cracks or other signs of damage. Inside the bolt holes (from the deck side) there also looks like there is no damage but the finish is kind of rough given the finish of the rest of the board.

There are no cracks (but lots of scratches) that I can see on the side walls of the fin box (looking from the bottom of the board). There is one crack the full distance of the front section of the fin box and one crack running the full distance of the back section of the fin box, the crack on the back section is worse than that at the front section and from the distance the back section crack runs onto the bottom of the board it looks to be about 3mm deep.


I will try the soap test and see how I go from there....

I appreciate the time you have taken to provide such detailed advice, thank you!

Mike T
11th February 2009, 08:30 PM
JD111
Can you post some pictures of the cracks in the leading edge and trailing edge of the fin box and of the crack in the bottom of the board. Thanks Mike

JD111
12th February 2009, 08:32 PM
Hi Mike,

I have attached some additional pics. CIMG3285.jpg shows the trailing edge of the fin box/bottom of the board, the crack is directly in the middle of the trailing edge to the left hand side of the gouge... this crack continues to run down the trailing edge of the fin box to the bottom (CIMG3290.jpg). The last pic (CIMG3294.jpg) shows the leading edge of the fin box and the crack is close to the center.

Thank you

nonopr
12th February 2009, 10:59 PM
You should have posted this photos before. This fin box is broken, cracked and need to be repair ASAP. I am sure you have water in you board as well.
This fin box broke when the fin hit a rock or entering the shore. I am sure about that. The guy who sold you the board is a scammer. He should give you the money back.
That is all I have to say.
In your first picture you can see the box is already disconnected from the board slightly and the third picture you can see a hole inside the box side wall.:(

Mike T
13th February 2009, 12:02 AM
JD111
Hi! thanks for the additional pictures, It not looking good my friend! Is that the crack in the bottom of the board First Pic left corner slightly out of focus? You have some damage that is for sure. I agree with nonpr you should try to get your money back. That board should not have been sold in that condition unless the guy was willing to pay for the repair and was up front about it. I'd get my money back if you can and if you can't get a new box put in. It's a shame some people in this world can't be honest! Good luck JD hope you can get it sorted out. PS Did you try the soap trick? Would love to hear what that outcome would be. I bet it will blow some nice bubbles! Another way to prove to the slacker (I'm being Nice) that he sold you a broken board!

JD111
14th February 2009, 08:02 AM
Hi Nonopr/Mike,

Thanks for your additional comments. The stress fracture on the trailing edge of the fin box is hairline in size and is almost exactly in the center of the trailing edge (1 pic of my previous post and is in focus). The damage that is on the far left hand side and is out of focus is different damage which is somewhat repaired..... and again which was not described in the item description..... I have attached pics of this damage below. The fin box does not look to be coming away from the board. I'm not at all happy that the damage to the fin box was not disclosed prior to purchase despite my specific questions regarding damage, and have asked for a refund. I'll buy a new Futura instead. Fingers crossed...

Thank you very much for your support!

Mike T
15th February 2009, 07:19 AM
JD111
I took a look at the pictures and the two latest ones of the side of the fin box that is amazing that some one would call that a repair? That looks like they tore out the side of the fin box and it took out two chunks out of the bottom and they probably glued it back down with superglue. What ever that board hit sure made a mess of it. I would definitly return it and get every bit of your money back, especialy since you questioned the repairs and they didn't disclose the fin box damage. I'd be hauling that board back ASAP! Give that board back! Good luck! Mike

wiindz
16th February 2009, 12:56 AM
wow,
somebody worked very hard to break that box, a turtle box smashed that badly, wow...ya, no questions asked you have three holes in your box, forget about the the cracks. looking at the conection between the box and the bottom of the board, there has deffinately been some major movement there, weather it be box to board or fin to box, the first is always bad, and the second from what i can seee if that was the case, was pronounced enough that it was very bad as well... i realy hope you can get your money back from this guy, ive got my fingures crossed for you, but with a lowlife like that who knows?...some people nowhere days...:(:(

kennatt
18th February 2009, 12:20 AM
hi JD haven't been on the forum for a long while for various reasons. I repair boards for a dealer local to me and others that are sent via word of mouth.YOur fin box is done for I'm afraid,try to get the guy to refund you, The fin box needs to be removed and a new one glassed back in.Typical damaged caused by hitting something at speed. Overtightening , normally ,dosent cause damage to the box or board,it simply strips the thread on the fin,There will be water inside the board,if it has been used like that but probably not much,I don't think you will get an effective repair with the box insitu,needs doing properly I'm afraid,You can do the job yourself if you are at all handy and have access to a router,boxes and epoxy resin can be bought and its not rocket science just simple DIY methods,the only skill is in getting a good cosmetic finish ,will the guy not help out with the cost of the repair,hate to see honest people ripped off,he obviously knew about it,can't realy miss it can you good luck with it ' ken

JD111
18th February 2009, 09:43 PM
Hi Wiindz/Ken,

Thanks for your comments. The goods news is that after some discussion with the previous owner it looks like he is willing to take the board back... fingers crossed!

carvesalot
18th February 2009, 10:58 PM
a host of information on this site...
http://boardlady.com/

JD111, I feel bad for you troubles.

wiindz
19th February 2009, 05:28 AM
great, i realy hope for you that he does man! if for some reason not however, and you have some basic knowlage of board repair, take a look at the site carvealot put up, its a great DYI site regardless of what the damage is on any board very helpfull and consetrvative on your wallet;p

JD111
22nd February 2009, 04:34 PM
Hi carvesalot,

Thanks for the link!

Erik Loots
26th February 2009, 11:08 PM
In my famliy we had 3 2006 starboards, together with my friends we used 5 starboards from 2006 with tuttlebox. models:

3 Isonics
2 s-type

On 4 starboardswe saw several cracks around the finbox. But we never did repair it. I only made it flat, so I wouldn't have any rough surface in scoop/rockerline. A very proffesional boardrepair shop in the Netherlands told us that the Hard-foam used around the finbox is waterproof, so repairs would be expensive & unnessecary.

On another board a JP freerace we experienced with a select fin RS7, which was like 10 times more powerful than the standardfin (eventhough the select was 5cm shorter!?! :) )that complete finbox including hardfoam seperated from the boardcore. After that we heard everytime when sailing that hit a gust a CRACK #!$3^&*(*&%^, That finbox was completely replaced by a new tuttlebox.

http://feeds2.feedburner.com/SpeedsurfingBlog.1.gif (http://www.speedsurfingblog.com/)

Mike T
2nd March 2009, 10:41 PM
Erik
Yes most fin boxes are surrounded by hard foam. But not all! So If you suspect that the fin box is cracked and the hard foam is not then you still have a water tight area but with a hard hit that this board took I would still do the bubble test and see if the box and surrounding foam is cracked. If the hard foam is intact then the repair would not be that expensive because you just router out the fin box and replace the box into the hard foam and then glass the top and bottom and paint. With the pictures that have been posted I would bet the hard foam is damaged. But the bigger issue is that the guy should'nt have sold the board to JD in that condition! So I hope he gets his money back.

wiindz
3rd March 2009, 12:53 AM
i wouldnt say shouldnt have sold it to him in that condition, rather shouldnt have sold it to him in that condition without JD knowing it.. if you buy the board for cheap knopwing that you are going to have to replace the box, thats fine. but if you buy it not knowing, for whatever price cheap or not, then the seller should either replace the board or give you a refund. at the very least if not that pay for the repairs! i realy hope he refund your money JD, let us know!

JD111
3rd March 2009, 10:55 AM
The previous owner was quite good about it all, considering that none of the fin box damage was disclosed in the product description or correspondence prior to purchase. He gave me a refund in full and then I bought the board back from him at a little over half my original purchase price and he also included a board bag and sail quiver bag for free - at this price I am happy to try to fix the damage, and if needed get the fin box replaced.

Previously I did the bubble test, which did not show anything, so over the weekend I followed Mike's earlier suggestions of earplugs, penetrating epoxy, and fiberglass.....and it turned out surprisingly good http://www.star-board.com/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif the coloured earplugs were great when it came to drilling / filing out the fin bolt holes as it gave me a guide on where to drill and when to stop filing. I also added some of the epoxy to the dodgy repairs on the corner of the fin box / bottom of the board and will fix these properly at a later stage as I am keen to get out and have a go as soon as possible.

Let's hope that I don't start hearing loud cracks when I eventually get out!

Thanks for all you suggestions and comments. http://www.star-board.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif

Mike T
3rd March 2009, 08:43 PM
JD111
JD, Well lets give the guy some kudo's for taking the board back and then giving you a good deal in return and glad to hear that you went and fixed the cracks. Those earplugs come in handy not only to save your hearing. Well good luck with the new ride and have fun warm winds. Mike