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coolny29
10th March 2009, 04:00 AM
I started windsurfing 9 months ago, and have windsurfed over 15 times in this period.

I have a Starboard Rio M and a Severne Focus 6.0 sail. In light winds I cannot get into plane do to the smaller size of the sail. Due to this I want to buy a larger sail in the 7.0 o 7.5 range.

I weigh 78kgs (172 pounds). I can tack well and am learning to gybe and get in the foot straps. I will try out my new harness this weekend with the 6.0.

My friendly dealer has recomended a Severne Element 7.5 which has 2 cams or the NCX which has no cams.

In advance thanks.:cool:

mim
10th March 2009, 05:46 AM
Hi,

I need some extra info...at what windspeed, are you not able to plane any more (I'm a different weigth class - 6sqm is for me up to 25 knots).

But I can tell you this...

NCX (I have 7.0) is not bad, when fully powered it is stable and fast enough, when it gets really overpowered it is like a wild mustang (a lot of pressure on the back hand), manouvers are easy, not so simple to rigg, but still it is a no-cam sail.

Element (in my case 8.5)...very nice sail, good in low-end...I get planning with it and my 100kg in something like 11+ knots. It comfotable, stable even in high winds altough it is not a race sail...when it gets really overpowered it is not that nice anymore. Jiing and tacking is not a problem, cambers are only two...rigging is a bit more complicated but still easy compared to a full racing sails. On the water it gives me a very nice feeling.

In both of them mast plays a significant role, I used it at the beginning with a low carbon content mast (<35%) and it was not perfect in oth of them...but element wasa little less sensitive to the mast...at least due to my opinion.

I would go for elemet (early plannig, lots of low-end power)...NCX is too technical for beginers I think (but it works even when overpowered).

The other option would be a Gator (I haven't tried any by myself, but it is supposed to be a freemove sail...it means lot of low-end power, earli planninh, and easy handling)...about the size...I gues 7.5 would be ok, but I am not sure since I am different weight class :).

Have fun, whatever you pick...
Ciao Michal.

wiindz
10th March 2009, 06:08 AM
how much wind you looking to get planning in?? at 72kg im planning around 13-15knts with my 6.6, id say a 7.0, especialy for a begginer should do the trick but learn how to use your harness first, it will quickly become your best friend, especialy if your buying a bigger sail!!

Roger
10th March 2009, 07:24 AM
Hi coolny29,
What mast do you use in your Severne Focus 6.0 m2 rig.
It would seem to me that you perhaps are not getting enough windspeed to get the Rio M (what year is your board as there is quite a difference between the earlier Start M based Rio and the newer '08/'09 Rio M which is a great board, but not like the Start or GO) going.
I would think at you weight, with about 13-15 knots of wind you would be planing fairly easily with the Focus 6.0 on the 08/09 Rio M with the CB retracted.
Moving up to a 7.5 is a very good way to bring your planing threshold down by about 3-4 knots.
Are you moving back on your board so it can plane freely?
Are you trying to plane with the center board down/deployed?
I really like the 7.5 NCX (I had a 2008 NCX 7.5, and it was easy to rig, very powerful,
and really easy to handle rigged on a 100% Redline 460 mast) , but I'm sure the Element 7.5 would work equally as well.
Also, as wiindz has asked, are you using a harness yet, and are you back to the footstraps.
Perhaps you aren't getting far enough back on the board to really free it up so it can
plane.
Hope this helps,

coolny29
10th March 2009, 07:57 AM
Hi coolny29,
What mast do you use in your Severne Focus 6.0 m2 rig.
It would seem to me that you perhaps are not getting enough windspeed to get the Rio M (what year is your board as there is quite a difference between the earlier Start M based Rio and the newer '08/'09 Rio M which is a great board, but not like the Start or GO) going.
I would think at you weight, with about 13-15 knots of wind you would be planing fairly easily with the Focus 6.0 on the 08/09 Rio M with the CB retracted.
Moving up to a 7.5 is a very good way to bring your planing threshold down by about 3-4 knots.
Are you moving back on your board so it can plane freely?
Are you trying to plane with the center board down/deployed?
I really like the 7.5 NCX (I had a 2008 NCX 7.5, and it was easy to rig, very powerful,
and really easy to handle rigged on a 100% Redline 460 mast) , but I'm sure the Element 7.5 would work equally as well.
Also, as wiindz has asked, are you using a harness yet, and are you back to the footstraps.
Perhaps you aren't getting far enough back on the board to really free it up so it can
plane.
Hope this helps,

Your right I get to plane on days with 15 knot wind, easily. On days with less wind 10-12knots I cannot plane. I have a Rio M 2008 and a Neil Pryde 30% Carbon Content mast. I try to move back to get it to plane, but on low day winds I canīt plane. I Windsurf in lakes which have 10 to 16 knot winds in the afternoon. As I said I am just staring out, but want a sail for the lower wind days. I will start using my harness staring this weekend.

Thanks

Roger
10th March 2009, 09:30 AM
Hi again coolny29,
OK, sounds good.
Using your harness may help a bit, with early planing, but with the wind speeds you suggest, a 7.5 m2 rig is going to get you far more planing time.
Don't move back too far, or too fast.
Remember, it's a "progression".As your speed builds, you can sheet in a little more (better to keep the sail a bit more "open" at your skill level as it will have better power.
Sheeted in heavily is good for the highest speeds, by you probably aren't quite there yet so remember the old adage "When in doubt, let it out".
I think the 7.5 NCX would be an excellent addition to your quiver.
Go for it!

coolny29
10th March 2009, 11:56 PM
So based on this you would recomend the NCX instead of the Element? I was told the Element should be better for me since it has a softer feel and is more forgiving.

mim
11th March 2009, 01:36 AM
I am for the element...
Ciao M.

PS: But it is a camber sail, harder to waterstart, harder to uphaul...

Roger
11th March 2009, 10:40 AM
Hi coolny29 and mim,
I cannot give you a direct comparison as I've never personally sailed an Element, but I know that the NCX is a really sweet sail.
I would have said the NCX has a softer feel and could be more forgivig, but I can't make that comparison.
Mim likes the Element for about the same reasons it seems.
The cambers may or may not make the Element more difficult to waterstart or uphaul.
There are +'s and -'s on either side of these issues in the camber vs no-cam debate.
I like no cams for entry level sailors because the normally are simpler, and a little easier to rig correctly, and there are no cambers to break or malfunction.
Hope this helps,

mim
12th March 2009, 03:15 AM
Hi again,

well to say also something for NCX...It was my first sail, I did not use a higher carbon content (15%) and the condition are not always perfect here.

After I did the experience with element I have to say I like it more the NCX, but I do not mean NCX is not good. Have to repeat again, for comfort (not top speed) and ease of use and/or learning I would try Gator.

Personally, I did not try it yet...but I plan to buy some mid size Gator for low wind waves (6.5 or 7.0)...big I know, but I am not small either.

Ciao Michal.

LK
12th March 2009, 08:50 AM
Hi
Just a few comments
Mim : when using a 15% carbon mast you loose half of the performance no matter you use Element, NCX or Gator

I have most experience with Gators up to 6,5 ( get a 7,5 (09) in a few days), huge trim range, from light wind wave to slalom performance.
I can highly recommend the Gator sails, but I have tested some NCX sails and they are very good to.
BUT I use normally Red Line masts in my sails.

So I strongly recommend using a high performance mast in these sails.
Blue Line masts work fine to; they are a bit softer than Red Lines, so some prefer Blue Line Masts, even in Code Red sails (up to 460 cm). Depends on rider weight and style.

mim
12th March 2009, 07:49 PM
I know it is not perfect...but the element works better on this low carbon content mast than ncx...

This is not an issue anymore, since I ordered Blue line mast for this season...
Ciao M.

LK
12th March 2009, 10:09 PM
You are probably right, makes sense, the cams support the built in shape better than a no cam sail when the mast is not optimal.

Here I think people can get a good idea of the different characteristics of Element/NCX/Gator

http://severnesails.com/2009/products/sail_ncx.php

and then click the Compare button, and then click on Element and Gator model

There are pretty new test results of these sails online too (NCX test winner)

Regarding the Element I think there is a big difference between the 09 model and the first versions of the Sail .

Cheers

mim
12th March 2009, 11:33 PM
As soon as I get on the water i will try both sails with same mast type and then I can post my subjective opinion again...for coolny is probably too late by then (sorry).

I have element 2008 version and to me the specs look very much the same compared to 2009, but there always is the invisible part of shaping...but can't report on that since I only know the 2008.

Ciao Michal.