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agrelon
18th April 2009, 05:06 PM
What's the lightest wind you've water started in and what sail size were you using?

carlosgp5
18th April 2009, 09:43 PM
7 knots on 11sqm

crazychemical
19th April 2009, 03:17 AM
12-13 knts with 7.6 spm but it was hard work!

Unregistered
19th April 2009, 05:49 AM
yep .. i reckon about 11 - 12 knts with a 7.5m is around the mark.

HotIce
19th April 2009, 06:09 AM
What's the lightest wind you've water started in and what sail size were you using?

Does a cold rainy day in a large swell and a light weight sailor with a super light rig and mega early planing sail count or are your referring to horrible small choppy water on a very hot dry day with a gutless sail and a heavy weight sailor?

Kato
19th April 2009, 06:16 AM
8-10 Bagged out 7.0. I really should run an uphaul rope on my gear

agrelon
19th April 2009, 11:34 AM
8-10 Bagged out 7.0. I really should run an uphaul rope on my gear

No uphaul? That's impressive, I mean I've just got waterstarts yesterday, but my ultimate training session sometime in the future will be going out without an up haul, hehe.

agrelon
19th April 2009, 11:38 AM
7 knots on 11sqm

That's terrific man, Im only equipped with 6m as my large sail so that's 7 knots is not gonna happen for me.

carlosgp5
19th April 2009, 08:14 PM
I sail FW and my smaller sail is 10sqm. Maybe its not a waterstart that Iam talking about, but for many times I fall of the board, with the whole body in the water, not touching the seabed, but without losing the grip on the boom. Even with very light winds, a small gust can take me up to the board again.... Iam only 70kg.

steveC
20th April 2009, 12:41 AM
I stopped using an uphaul probably over 18 years ago for all my planing style boards. My largest sail is an 8.3, but it's still relatively easy to waterstart in planing type conditions (winds averaging 11-12 mph). If the wind drops too much, things get a lot more sketchy and difficult. When the wind tends to be up and down in nature, I will often relax and wait for a puff to fill in to waterstart.

Jean-Marc
20th April 2009, 02:31 AM
As long as sail tip and double luff pannel does not fill in with water: 6-7 knots wind with Code Red 11.0m2 sail and Serenity (65 kg + PFD). Not enough lift/weight ratio in 5 knots or lesser wind.

Cheers !

JM

Ken
22nd April 2009, 07:54 AM
Here's a solution if you get stuck in wind too light to water start. This happened to me many years ago during a long downwind race on a longboard.

Moderate swells, dying wind and a 10 m sail which I grabbed at the last second (without an uphaul). I discovered my error just after the start, but decided to keep going since I was in the lead. Eventually in less than 5 knots of wind, I fell off in the swells and tried to water start with no luck. I then tried to uphaul with the mast, but simply couldn't do it. After a few minutes of frustration, I thought of taking off the harness lines (tied on with knots in the old days), tying them together and making an uphaul. It worked great and I still finished the race in the lead.

Just pray you have harness lines that velcro or tie on and you don't have to slip them over the end of the boom arm.

In my early days, I thought it was "cool" to sail without an uphaul. Now that I am older and wiser, I see that for those of us that sail inland lakes with rapidly changing winds, it is a bit stupid to go without one.

Screamer
22nd April 2009, 06:46 PM
In my early days, I thought it was "cool" to sail without an uphaul. Now that I am older and wiser, I see that for those of us that sail inland lakes with rapidly changing winds, it is a bit stupid to go without one.

It's only when you want to sail rapidly changing, but howling winds on inland waters, when you have a problem (uphaul not very useful on small volume eh). Just last week I've had a mile swim when 7-8bf gale switched off.

Wrt waterstarting, I remember a magazine article a few years ago where a guy explained how to do it in stupidly light winds - a few knots. You'll need the stretch/skill of a gymnast though, he CLIMBED on the board while holding the rig upright, rather than being lifted by the rig (I think it was Simon Bornhoft).

michelb
22nd April 2009, 08:20 PM
Re study Peter Hart videos...... Turn for the better. He do a waterstart in a long board with less than 5 knots taking the rig from near the mast foot.

Peter is member of this dream team and maybe can do any tip.....

Michel

Ken
22nd April 2009, 10:22 PM
Screamer,

I agree that an uphaul isn't really needed on a Very Low volume board, unless you have the skill to uphaul with the water level mid calf or at the knees. I am not that good, so I will only go out on my 85 liter board if the wind is howling with no wind shadows.

Michael,

I have done water starts holding on to the mast and sail foot in very light winds. It does work but takes some practice. However, I didn't have the skills at the time (20+ yrs ago) when I was stuck with my 10.0 m in little to no wind and used the harness lines for an uphaul.

agrelon
23rd April 2009, 03:16 PM
Here's a solution if you get stuck in wind too light to water start. This happened to me many years ago during a long downwind race on a longboard.

Moderate swells, dying wind and a 10 m sail which I grabbed at the last second (without an uphaul). I discovered my error just after the start, but decided to keep going since I was in the lead. Eventually in less than 5 knots of wind, I fell off in the swells and tried to water start with no luck. I then tried to uphaul with the mast, but simply couldn't do it. After a few minutes of frustration, I thought of taking off the harness lines (tied on with knots in the old days), tying them together and making an uphaul. It worked great and I still finished the race in the lead.

Just pray you have harness lines that velcro or tie on and you don't have to slip them over the end of the boom arm.

In my early days, I thought it was "cool" to sail without an uphaul. Now that I am older and wiser, I see that for those of us that sail inland lakes with rapidly changing winds, it is a bit stupid to go without one.

That's human ingenuity at it's best! I'll remember that when I sail uphaulless.

mondy
24th April 2009, 02:11 PM
dear friend,
check out what royn says: http://www.roynbartholdi.com/ws_move_starts_lightwind.htm
it's tough but can be done, try it , but it's VERY frustrating as you're probably swearing anyway coz the wind dropped....
he has all kinds of starts on the site, check them out!
cheers
mondy

Jean-Marc
29th April 2009, 06:35 AM
On a longboard like the Serenity, it's a lot faster to grab the double luff mast pannel full of water and rest the boom either on the tail or on the nose of the board rather than uphauling the large 11.0 m2 sail with brute force. Water pours out of the boom's cutout and sail tip by itself. Once empty, lift off the mast up, grab the boom, clear off the clew and off you go. On a short board, forget it: nose or tail are usually too short to rest the boom on it.

Cheers !

JM

steveC
30th April 2009, 12:42 AM
Ken,

Although I stopped using an uphaul, like I noted a bit earlier, I should point out that I do carry a spare piece of downhaul line in the small pocket of my seat harness that I can tie on to the boom, if needed. So I guess I'm not totally stupid. I have to say, in the last 18 years of using no uphaul, I think I've only tied on the line twice.

agrelon
30th April 2009, 11:58 AM
On a longboard like the Serenity, it's a lot faster to grab the double luff mast pannel full of water and rest the boom either on the tail or on the nose of the board rather than uphauling the large 11.0 m2 sail with brute force. Water pours out of the boom's cutout and sail tip by itself. Once empty, lift off the mast up, grab the boom, clear off the clew and off you go. On a short board, forget it: nose or tail are usually too short to rest the boom on it.

Cheers !

JM

This is how I water start and continue to do so, I've never tried simply clearing the rig from the water without using the boards floatation as leverage. With the short board I use, a 2005 AHD limited edition, the tail is just long enough to be used.

I think a lot of people struggle with rig recovery and knowing this is a big, big tip.

Ken
2nd May 2009, 01:33 AM
Another technique to clear a sail from the water if you are on a short board (not long enough to rest the boom on the nose or tail). I hold on to the rear foot strap and use my extended arm as an extension of the board. I pull the boom over my arm and leverage my arm up until the mast / sail clear the water. Works best with small to medium size sails.

mim
2nd May 2009, 03:30 PM
For me this works even with 8.5 3-cam sail. That is a good techinque.
Ciao Michal.

agrelon
3rd May 2009, 11:18 AM
Another technique to clear a sail from the water if you are on a short board (not long enough to rest the boom on the nose or tail). I hold on to the rear foot strap and use my extended arm as an extension of the board. I pull the boom over my arm and leverage my arm up until the mast / sail clear the water. Works best with small to medium size sails.

Yeah,this is a great technique as you don't have to tread water. I used this also when clearing the clew if my sail doesn't fall in a practical position.

mim
4th May 2009, 03:12 PM
works with 10.0 in 14 knots for a 100 kg guy as well!

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5th May 2009, 07:38 AM
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