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Screamer
7th June 2009, 11:08 PM
Excuse my ignorance

What's happening on July 1st 2009? (this site homepage)
New models coming earlier this year or .....?

steveC
7th June 2009, 11:52 PM
I've wondering the same thing. It's actually my birthday, but I know it can't be about me. Maybe it's Starboard's release of the quad wave board.

kvda
9th June 2009, 12:48 AM
Or the release of another board...

Unregistered
9th June 2009, 01:11 AM
It is probably the launch of the new quad fin waveboard.

nonopr
9th June 2009, 01:48 AM
Is the day they will announce that they are no longer going to built boards at Cobra. :)

Unregistered
9th June 2009, 02:49 AM
then next year its a 5 fin waveboard,
year after 1 fin.
do i sound jaded??

P@t
9th June 2009, 03:50 AM
I would like to see new iSoncs :)

Katapult
9th June 2009, 03:53 AM
Perhaps the 2010 Formula board?

nonopr
9th June 2009, 04:15 AM
Free boards to everyone!!!!

think
9th June 2009, 04:54 PM
Everyone should know that 1 July is a W E D N E S D A Y !!!!!!!! Yes

crazychemical
9th June 2009, 10:15 PM
Free boards to everyone!!!!

OMG LOL!! Genious quote Nonopr!!


@ Think: WTF?


In my opinion it'll be the release date of a new board, most likely the quadfin because of all the commotion there's been around these boards ever since Kauli and Quattro got crackin' on 'em. ALthough free boards sound better ...

Unregistered
24th June 2009, 07:12 AM
July 1st is Canada day!!

Maybe starboards making us canucks a special board!!

yeah beer holders, a moose caller built in and a beaver design logo on the deck!

this board can be used on snow or add on steel skegs, will make it great on ice.

its does float for the 2 days of open water we get.

Hey a board for the Canadians so we can:

take off in the great white north.

take off...its a beauty way to go!!.

shredulato



P.S. moosefest regatta this weekend check it out!!!

http://windsurfwoody.ca/

Hot Ice
25th June 2009, 02:34 AM
Nice picture of a new Starboard Quad in the July issue of Boards.

I was wondering when windsurfers would catch up with the surfers.

I feel the twinzers short life is over.

Unregistered
25th June 2009, 02:48 AM
Beware with the "hype", the "trend".
Josh Angulo still winning with a single fin.

nonopr
26th June 2009, 12:43 AM
Here it is July 1, 2009 for Starboard Ad.
http://www.quadwindsurfing.com

http://www.nonopr.com/sitebuilder/images/Quad_Fin-463x600.jpg

nonopr
26th June 2009, 01:11 AM
http://www.nonopr.com/sitebuilder/images/Quad_Fin-463x600.jpg

Hot Ice
1st July 2009, 03:37 AM
Beware with the "hype", the "trend".
Josh Angulo still winning with a single fin.

Surely the quad is not about wining competitions though no doubt that will happen but having fun in typical every day surf conditions for mere mortals not windsurfing legends?

I canít see Quads being better than a single fin just a different kind of fun.

Why restrict quads to only the surfers and kiters?

Think quad think fast and skatey think fun.

mark h
1st July 2009, 06:27 AM
Surely the quad is not about wining competitions though no doubt that will happen but having fun in typical every day surf conditions for mere mortals not windsurfing legends?

I can’t see Quads being better than a single fin just a different kind of fun.

Why restrict quads to only the surfers and kiters?

Think quad think fast and skatey think fun.

Agreed. If manufactures stuck with the "same old" we'd all still be sailing long-boards (soz long board fans). A decent example is the weird but wonderfull Hypersonic, it was loved by those that could figure out how to exploit it as a "one board solution", but hated by those that prefered "plug in and play" boards. So the HS was not for every one, but it did go some way to re-introducing slalom fun and basic speed sailing.

Yep, some time designers get it well wrong. But good on them for loosing the blinkers, climbing out the box and trying something new.

innovate, not imitate. Keeps it fun for all of us:)

My 2cents worth

Philip
1st July 2009, 06:47 AM
And the first day of the new financial year.

basher
1st July 2009, 07:07 AM
Well, it's July 1st here.
And... ?
Haha, nothing on this site so far.

Philip
1st July 2009, 07:27 AM
What time zone are you on?

Remi
1st July 2009, 11:31 AM
Hi All,

It's on the Star-Board web site already and also a test form Wind Magasine here : http://www.windmag.com/News/3013-exclu-mondiale-le-test-de-la-premiere-waveboard-de-serie-quad-starboard-evo-2010-dans-wind-juillet-video-et-photos.html

All the best

basher
1st July 2009, 04:12 PM
Yes, it's live now;
www.quadwindsurfing.com

And the Quad 71 is already pulling on the purse strings.

Screamer
1st July 2009, 06:12 PM
And the Quad 71 is already pulling on the purse strings.

Nah, better to wait for a few months - when they're discounted ;-)))

Unregistered
2nd July 2009, 01:33 AM
or get the real thing and buy a quattro....

Unregistered
2nd July 2009, 08:05 AM
well quad,
at 1st sceptical but after seeing the technical video makes sense, but it only serves maybe 5% of the market where you have big waves...wait do only 5% see big waves, i dunno but whatever that % where a good wave is.
its not me.
However thats not the point i guess
it will work for someone.

Unregistered
2nd July 2009, 02:28 PM
The Hype works on everyone ! well nearly

Bit of a disappointment !!!!

Tiesda You
2nd July 2009, 06:21 PM
Is it really? I guess you haven't tried it yet.

Unregistered
2nd July 2009, 07:03 PM
How many fins next year? 6 (+2) or 8 (*2) ?

How much does it cost when you have to change your set of fins? The price of 4 fins?

Anowan
2nd July 2009, 08:30 PM
I think it's a pretty exciting concept really, especially since we can get them as "convertibles", that's a huge plus.
What I wonder though about the convertible ones, is if Starboard is going to supply them with some kind of plastic parts or whatever to fill in the empty unused finboxes, whether you are sailing with the Quad fins and want to "close" the us box, or as a single fin and need to close the miniTuttle boxes ?
I don't know if I'm making myself clear ?

Also when will we get pictures of the convertible Quads ?
And when are they available ?

Hot Ice
3rd July 2009, 01:53 AM
Itís understandable that some people will take time to be convinced and may be initially disappointed in the promotion. Thatís natural.

For me I am already sold on quads simply because of the performance surfers have been getting from their quads over the last couple of years.

Two thing I donít understand though. Why did Starboard not go to quads sooner. Secondly why didnít they show their quads performing in small onshore waves where they also probably excel.

sergio_k
3rd July 2009, 09:45 PM
Itís understandable that some people will take time to be convinced and may be initially disappointed in the promotion. Thatís natural.

For me I am already sold on quads simply because of the performance surfers have been getting from their quads over the last couple of years.

Two thing I donít understand though. Why did Starboard not go to quads sooner. Secondly why didnít they show their quads performing in small onshore waves where they also probably excel.

that would be my Q too, how does quad perform on less than perfect, small onshore waves of the real world outside of few 'magic' destinations and why convertable option if quad is that good??

Unregistered
4th July 2009, 12:26 AM
Perhaps if starboard didnt hype all their new products up then sailors couldn`t be disappointed.

Over years there`s been loads of boards hyped as being best thing to ever hit the water. Some have been good some OK and some neither. Carve;S Type; Futura; Kode and now the Quad (?) have all been "eagerly" awaited because of rumours; website etc etc. some to die a death not that long after . (S Stype ???)

Think its a case of crying wolf once too often;and starboard as usual making optimistic claims about their products; new old and as yet unseen.

Unregistered
4th July 2009, 01:17 AM
"Crying wolf once to often" I dont really see what your point is???? Are you saying that you always go with what you read in the brochure and buy purely on that basis?? I always thought that it was a case of research, research, research. Check what suits you. Try before you buy, etc.

Carve: one of the longest running & sucessesfull boards of all time (Bic techno 283 I think was just ahead).

S-type: Cancelled because the PWA dropped super X. The ST104 is still one of KP's favourit boards. Every one I know that has had one, loved them.

Futura: Usually comes out on top, or as a real contender in group tests. Most who try, like.

Kode: Dont know about this one.

Quad: Jury still out:

I dont really get why people get wound up about the "hype". If a company invests in a new line and they have conviction in its products abilities, then why not big them up. I dont thinked I'd buy a board if the brochure read: This board is OK, not the fastest or earliest planning, a bitch to turn etc. Its up to us to read between the lines and figure things out.

Unregistered
4th July 2009, 03:21 AM
Innovation is a good thing. without we'd still be using canvas square rigger sails.
A new design may not be the best for all, or have a universal application.
Like this quad board, would not be on my wish list here sailing lake superior, a formula board does, but a starboard formula has limited application in maui.
Each to their own.


This has little relevance , but someone else brought it up, i have an stype 104 which i love .
The board a rocket ship and sharp gyber, fast especially off the wind broad reach. I wouldnt trade it for a similar sized futura which i HAVE sailed NOPE. Doesnt mean the futuras a bad board.
The s type more like a kode.
i was sailing it last week with a severne blade 6.2 in 20 to 30 plus knots , WOW really performs.

shredulato

Unregistered
4th July 2009, 03:58 AM
Well I know little or nothing about twins or quads but what I do know is that SB are streets ahead on innovation.
The Hypersonic imho is the best example.
To cover everything with only one board and 2 sails.......nothing comes close.

mark h
4th July 2009, 07:22 AM
couldnt sign in for post 34, laptops crapping out. Need a new one, but also need a couple of new fins so laptop can wait!!!

Stev-0
4th July 2009, 07:55 AM
Innovation is a good thing. without we'd still be using canvas square rigger sails.

Yeah! - some ideas work out and when they do it pushes the sport and the performance you can access as a Weekend Warrior.

For me the Evos transformed the performance that can be scored in mushy waves. I've gone twin fin - different brand - but the twin fin concept works for me! Now I'm interested in multi-fin concepts again as the modern board shapes seem to be really suiting a new approach in terms of fins and riding style...

Unregistered
4th July 2009, 08:33 PM
Boards not working out long term and Hype SB generate are 2 completly different things.
My old Style (F2) still works a treat for me in certain conditions but it wasn`t released in a blaze of glory like S type was. (And kode and Futura and Quad and ....

Starboard always have built up (hyped up) release dates (like 1st July) for their boards.Its barmy. They hype up their contribuion to sport and their claims on here are hyped up !

Unregistered
4th July 2009, 08:37 PM
"How long can we expect to maintain the performance advantage in all categories of windsurfing from exciting Evil Twin developments to Serenity sailing?"

Quote from this site. Think its a touch pretentious at best ???

Anowan
4th July 2009, 09:18 PM
yeah well...

On a note relative to this thread, the Evo Quad wood carbon 81 has just been tested in the July issue of French Wind mag, and the result is surprisingly excellent.
With the tester comparing its planning and upwind potential being as good as on a Freewave board, the board excelled in both good DTL conditions and strong winds in Morocco, as well as shitty mushy waves and Onshore winds in the south of France .
They even said the planning and upwind potential is better than both a similar shaped Twin or Single fin board !

And they can't be accused of being biased since they already tested some Quatro Quad prototypes last month and said they didn't like them for regular weekend sailors, as they being too "radical" to use in European conditions.
Can't wait to try a *board Quad myself.

WARDOG
4th July 2009, 10:11 PM
Surely the quad is not about wining competitions though no doubt that will happen but having fun in typical every day surf conditions for mere mortals not windsurfing legends?

I can’t see Quads being better than a single fin just a different kind of fun.

Why restrict quads to only the surfers and kiters?

Think quad think fast and skatey think fun.

Zackly...it's about time!!!...;-)

"The Quad wave concept was born 2 years ago when Svein Rasmussen and Scott McKercher first started working with Quad fin setups on wave SUP boards, initially with single fin setups to thrusters and finally Quad fins."

I've been riding quadfin surfboards for over 10 years...was also on custom trifin waveboards 10 years ago, as well...so, it was a natural for me to want a quadfin waveboard...these posts were over 4 years ago...#3 & #10...

Date : 4/26/2005 3:44:39 PM Author : WARDOG

"If you want a fast , loose, board...quadfins (twinzers) are the way to go...
Way looser and faster than thrusters...this is where the future lies..."

http://www.surfingsports.com/images/wardog_twinzers.jpg
http://www.surfingsports.com/images/wardog_twinzer_mex.jpg

http://www.exocet-original.com/forum/read.asp?ID=1325

Working with Joe Blair we built this quad (+1) (Convertible) sailing SUP over 3 years ago...

http://surfingsports.com/blair_sup/blair_sup9.jpg
http://surfingsports.com/blair_sup/blair_sup1.jpg

In light air, it could pinch to weather much higher than the kiters could...many people were surprised by it's upwind ability...

Now Starboard has the SUPable/windsurfable 9' Stinger quad (+1) for light air...

http://surfingsports.com/secros_sup/slides/secros_sup11.html

It is definitely gonna be exciting to get on a higher wind version of a quadfin...

Warm winds ,good waves, & strong strokes...{;~)

WARDOG
http://surfingsports.com
http://standuppaddlesports.com
http://supsports.com
http://longboardwindsurfing.com
http://longboardwavesailing.com
http://longboardsurfsailing.com
http://paddlesurfing.com
http://standuppaddlesurf.com
http://standuppaddleboards.com
http://supboards.com
http://supwindsurfing.com

Iglaou
5th July 2009, 11:18 AM
On a note relative to this thread, the Evo Quad wood carbon 81 has just been tested in the July issue of French Wind mag, and the result is surprisingly excellent.
With the tester comparing its planning and upwind potential being as good as on a Freewave board, the board excelled in both good DTL conditions and strong winds in Morocco, as well as shitty mushy waves and Onshore winds in the south of France .
They even said the planning and upwind potential is better than both a similar shaped Twin or Single fin board !



I like "surprisingly excellent" ! LOL!!! I read Wind magazine for 20 years, I have never seen them testing a board which is not "excellent". Test by Wind magazine are a joke. Boards magazine is much more serious.

I understand by this test that the quad turn like a quattro and goes upwind like a formula, cannot wait to see the starboard team to trust the podium in Pozo (but why Boujma is riding single in Pozo?). Competition is the true verdict.

The fact is that the agressive marketing from Starboard starts really to bother many people. Arrogant statement like "Antoine Albeau has never won a slalom event before joigning Starboard" just 2 weeks before A2 (and many other guys) properly trashed Starboard team in 3 events in a row was something beyond any kind of pretentiousness.

We cannot count the so-called "revolutions" that disappeared from the catalog quicker than a 10 beaufort wind:

- hypersonic
- hybrid carve (you remember this one - LOL)
- compact 126
- aero
- appolo

Maybe some other ones?

Tiesda You
5th July 2009, 01:22 PM
Hi all,

Thanks for all the communication on the Quads and more. To answer questions on the Convertible: the board does come with bases that allow you to close off the fin boxes that are not in use and reduce some of the turbulence.

Why haven’t we done Quads before? There’s no direct answer. Single fins, thrusters, twin fins, Quads, five fins: is it evolution, revolution or fashion? For us, if it weren’t for our SUP R&D, who first tried Quad setups because of their surfing influence, we (the windsurfing team) probably wouldn’t have a Quad windsurf wave board today. We simply tried it and it brought some outstanding promise at an early stage. So we developed it some more and launched it this week. To be honest, we haven’t done much hype other than making it available and promoting it on our website. So I feel that some of the unregistered users commenting on the hype are somewhat misplaced. We can take it off our website and keep the board as an underground cult too, but where's the fun in that?

To be honest, when we have a new idea, we get excited and we want to move windsurfing forwards through the development of products. That’s our character. We like to innovate, question convention and grow our sport through new dimensions of windsurfing, even revisiting old ones. If by trying a new idea or revisiting an old one, we can take windsurfing to new levels, then let’s go for it. This defines our brand and there is no exact science on innovation. The Hypersonic did re-ignite the interest in slalom, Antoine really didn’t win on the PWA until he started to use the iSonics, the Evo really did push the limits of wave sailing for many sailors and the new Quads are truly what we believe is the next evolution. We live in a free market which is the best thing about innovation: you can be the judges and decide what you like, and we Starboard simply make what we believe in. Some ideas and inventions succeed; some fail and some don’t even leave the drawing board.

We’re very much excited about the Quads, we’ve all ridden the boards and we love them. As the boards hit the market, we know many will love them too. Others won’t like it because maybe it doesn’t fit their needs, their taste. Maybe a few won’t like it out of simple pre-conception. Perhaps some more Quad wave boards from other brands will follow too and maybe there will indeed be 8 fin boards in the future called the Octo. Who knows? What we know today is that we love the Quad boards and they have both replaced our Evos in the allround wave category and knocked out the Evil Twins in one fell swoop – that’s how much we love them. What will the wave market, the slalom market, the lightwind market and the windsurfing market itself be like in the much longer future? Well let’s keep innovating, and we’ll see.

Unregistered
5th July 2009, 06:53 PM
Any trend thats different starboard will exploit.
There`s a difference in novelty and (true) development which hype manages to confuse the edges of.

Buying public are very gullable.Hence starboard do well. Its a sad reflection on modern sailors.

How many times do you hear on here "My futura (or whatever) is a fantastic board" when chances are sailor has sailed almost nothing else.(except SB)

IMO whover buys a Futura hasn`t sailed a Hawk Ltd or a Synchro RD but thats my opinion ;but at least got by trying lots of boards not just been pulled along by website;adverts; sponsored sailors; hype and claims. In the history of WS has any firm ever spent as much on brochures;websites;sponsored sailors;adverts launches and websites.? I doubt it. But it works !!! Starboard will be only manufacturer left one day !!!! Will be a sad day but its a fact !!!

When are sailors going to realise ??? There are lots of good boards out there. Starboard did NOT invent the sport; they are NOT responsible for all its developments.(Are they really responsible for any ???) They do NOT make best boards in every catagory ! Yes they make some good boards but so do all the others !!!

Starboard ; Legends on their own website !!!

matyix
6th July 2009, 12:47 AM
Tiesda,

If I understand this correct, Quad will replace ET and EVO in 2010? This means the wave quiver will be the Kode and Quad?

I appreciate the wave riding capabilities of a twinzer/quad - tried and they are great, however jumping/speed the ET wasn't really convincing.

I am particularly interested how do you compare the capabilities of a Quad to an EVO regards jumping.

Thanks.

Anowan
6th July 2009, 06:01 AM
Thanks for the answer Tiesda.

As for this :
I like "surprisingly excellent" ! LOL!!! I read Wind magazine for 20 years, I have never seen them testing a board which is not "excellent". Test by Wind magazine are a joke. Boards magazine is much more serious.

I understand by this test that the quad turn like a quattro and goes upwind like a formula, cannot wait to see the starboard team to trust the podium in Pozo (but why Boujma is riding single in Pozo?). Competition is the true verdict.

The fact is that the agressive marketing from Starboard starts really to bother many people. Arrogant statement like "Antoine Albeau has never won a slalom event before joigning Starboard" just 2 weeks before A2 (and many other guys) properly trashed Starboard team in 3 events in a row was something beyond any kind of pretentiousness.

We cannot count the so-called "revolutions" that disappeared from the catalog quicker than a 10 beaufort wind:

- hypersonic
- hybrid carve (you remember this one - LOL)
- compact 126
- aero
- appolo

Maybe some other ones?

could we know what's the source of your frustration, anger, and aggressivity ?

1/ For someone who pretend to have read Wind for 20 years you must stop just staring at pictures and start actually reading it. Wind will never 100% bash any equipment for sure, but if there are negative sides to it they will say it. Their new test team is quite critical actually. But you do have to read it to realize it. My suggestion : if you still think they are a joke after 20 years of reading every single issue of Wind mag, do yourself a favor, stop reading them and save some money.
2/ The majority of riders will be on single fins in Pozo, even Kauli. So what's your point ? Wait, Fernandez and Koster (the 2 best jumpers) will actually be on twinzers, so if competition is the true verdict, too bad for you because last year's winner was on a multifin board.
3/ Where did I write it turns like a quatro and goes upwind like a formula ? Learn to read English, I talked about a freewave board.
4/ So stating FACTS as promotion is being arrogant now ? the fact Albeau never
won a world championship before is a fact Starboard can be proud of, why not claiming it ?
Neil Pryde has slogans like "the wind makes the difference" , JP says they are "the right stuff for radical action". But the only facts they can rely on are the fact they go buy established world champions like Antoine or Kauli, and then claim they win because of their equipment. Funny that Kauli still rides Quatro boards with JP stickers on it , and that Antoine's new slalom shapes copied the low nose rocker of the Isonics.
5/ Nowhere in the Quad boards description is there written that they are a "revolution". Starboard team talks about a true "innovation". But once again you need to learn how to read .
6/ As for boards that don't stay more than two years in the catalog, I would take an innovative company that tries out NEW things, and sometimes find new concept that are stollen the year after by every other brands (the compact wave shapes, the low nose rocker , the wide board concept, etc...), over a company that puts more money on team riders than on true research and development.

I prefer a company like Starboard that invest in S.U.P right from the start because they beleive in it, rather than a company like JP who waits until they see every other brand make money, to jump the bandwagon and quick launch a new S.U.P brand, like they'll do this Autumn just to pick marketshares. Just like they did with kitesurfing.They are no risk takers. Did you know Mister Neil Pryde never put a foot on a sailboard in his life ?
Starboard started they R&D on Quads two years ago. Just this winter JP claimed that to have a Kauli quad board for 2010 was out of the question. And now all of a sudden they changed their mind and will have a quad in next year's catalog ?
I prefer innovators to copiers.

BTW I do like all brands really, JP, Fanatic, Mistral, Exocet & Kona (two of my fave because of their "innovations", just like *board), and yes, Pryde, Gaastra, North, Severne and Simmer... all have decent equipment. But when I dislike some of their marketing tactics I will not go on their own forum to troll around and bash them.
I guess most people (most) come here because they either are owners of Starboard equipment , or are thinking to purchase some. I wonder what's the point in bashing the brand because of their slogans or catalogs (very well done btw, congrats to the *board graphists, keep it up !). Are you Trolls aware of the marketing tactics in the computer world for instance ? Have you seen Apple's Mac&PC adds ? That should get your blood boiling

viking
6th July 2009, 12:16 PM
the fact Albeau never
won a world championship before is a fact Starboard can be proud of, why not claiming it ?


??????
PWA: world champion in freestyle in 2001, world champion in race in 2004

Many other titles outside PWA (production boards, formula...)

Unregistered
6th July 2009, 03:22 PM
Why do sailors forget starboard build boards to make money !!!
They promoted SUP to sell the things.No other reason ;full stop. When the bubble bursts they will be forgotten about; just like Hypersonics.

There`s a sentiment on here that starboard are building/promoting boards for esoteric intrinsic moral principles for the good of us all. BS. They build boards for PROFIT ! More boards ; more profit.Any boards. Quads;SUP`s. Anything.They`ll reinvent Div 2 boards soon.(or perhaps the invented tghose too ?)

There`s nothing new in WS.Starboard profit from re- volution and novelty. (and they promote this to many newcomers as "innovation" with psuedo science to back it all up.)
Read this site !!!

Unregistered
6th July 2009, 03:43 PM
all the gear, no idea

Anowan
6th July 2009, 05:10 PM
Viking you are right and my intention was not to put down an exceptionnal sailor like Albeau, I was just talking about the Isonics' promotion, and the Slalom world title, I should have been more specific, my bad.

Why do sailors forget starboard build boards to make money !!!
...
There`s a sentiment on here that starboard are building/promoting boards for esoteric intrinsic moral principles for the good of us all. BS. They build boards for PROFIT ! More boards ; more profit.Any boards. Quads;SUP`s. Anything.They`ll reinvent Div 2 boards soon.(or perhaps the invented tghose too ?)
...
There`s nothing new in WS.Starboard profit from re- volution and novelty. (and they promote this to many newcomers as "innovation" with psuedo science to back it all up.)
Read this site !!!

I couldn't agree more with you that they are promoting in order for selling and being profitable. It would be stupid otherwise. I was just answering to the "concerns" that they would be launching a four fins wave board purely as a marketing gimmick, with no R&D to back it up, solely for the fact of throwing pseudo innovations in our face, and creating impulse buy.
The fact of the matter is the windsurfing market is too tiny to even be thinking of doing that, launching new products that are not an improvement over what was done before. If *board or any brand would keep lauching products that were not improving, even very slightly, the market would just die. Boards and sails keep getting better and that's a fact.
So the fact that they do take risks on this market is a rather admirable thing in my views;
I can understand that the terms used for promoting some items may sound over the top for some, I personnally have no problem with that as they are far from being the only ones to do that. Plus I see them talking about innovating and re-inventing quite often (and rightly so in my opinion, and with 30 years of windsurfing behind me I am no newcomer), but it never came across as being artificial to me contrary to you...
but fair enough, I can see what you mean, and to each his own.

And again ,I'm a fan of many other brands as well , not just Starboard. I just appreciate the effort they put in "stirring things up" in their own way, and looking for new directions to try to keep things exciting. I appreciate that in every brand capable of doing it.
I doubt the Serenity is a best seller , but it's a good exemple that they would still launch a unique product, for the sake of looking in a new fresh direction that hasn't been explored by anyone else lately, superlight wind sailing. So in a way you're right, they re-invented Div.2 ;) . That they take a lot of pride in that through their adds don't bother me . That would bother me if they were putting some shitty products on the market. As far as I know, they do not.

Unregistered
6th July 2009, 06:32 PM
Agree with most of what you say.
Starboard invest in new products; websites;adverts;brochures sponsored silors and R+D. I feel sometimes rather than catering for a market they try and"produce" one. (ie SUP`s)
Sailors pay for all this NOT starboard.

Go in any retailer probably throughout the world and there will be a vey expensive brochure (SB) and chances are both a demo board and a sponsored sailor nearby. Look on here and estimate the number of sponsored sailors; there`s literally hundreds of thm !!!
All paid for on price of boards !!

viking
6th July 2009, 07:12 PM
Long debate about the marketing! As said, the principal goal for Starboard and any other brand is to sell the maximum of boards. But it is true that the excess of marketing - the speciality of *board and NP in the windsurf market - can be counter productive to achieve that, to make the "total revolution" board every year leads the consumer to logicaly feel frustrated:

- he is disapointed with his new board that is not really better the previous one
or
-he is disgusted because the board he bought a fortune a few months ago (a twinzer for example) is already totally hasbeen and retired from the market with a 0 value on the second hand market

Unregistered
6th July 2009, 11:14 PM
Viking
Exactly right; but boards should sell on merit.If this were always case even if your board had been "outmoded" it would be part of the sports development.In reality (IMO) this is rarely the case and boards sell on Hype/advertising/strong marketing and use by sponsored sailors. Boards (and rigs) just cant improve at the rate claimed.Its an impossibility !!

We`ve reached the point where boards aren`t better (or worse!) they just offer different characteristics. We feel these "different" characteristics and assume development; which is in fact novelty..Read the BS; believe the hype and before you know it sailors are raving all over place about their "new" kit. (until next year that is) Its why industry is afraid of objective testing.

I`ve got a mate raving over his new kode. Nobody wants to tell him he actually sailed his Skate better. (I`m actually glad he`s got rid of skate; I can catch him now !!! but he insists kode is better/faster/gybes better etc etc. (He`s semi sponsored BTW)

Trouble is in WS we have no acid test. I used to be involved in car racing. There`s a geat racing adage. When the flag drops the BS stops.

Ola_H
7th July 2009, 05:25 AM
Unregistered:

I'm not really sure what problem you are trying to adress here. One one hand you want development and on the other you don't. Or rather, you only want it to happen in small steps a incremental changes to given boards. For sure, this is a very effective way of getting (small steps) forwards. But in the long run you will inevitably end up going in circles and do just what you bring up - change the character of a board forwards and back without really improving because you've ran out of ideas. Big changes - like mutations - are also needed. Not only will such development bring along new ideas and sometimes totally new types of boards. It will also make us look at old boards differently which will help us develop these boards too.

Something that I think is very fun with Starboard and the reason I like the brand is the willingness to innovate, something that is not often associated with big business firms. Innovation always mean taking risks. But it's not like Starboard is not also refining. Look at the EVO. If was one of those "mutations", a new and "hyped" typ of wave board. But since 2003 when it came out, there has been very careful incremental development of the different sizes. If you ride any of the EVOs now and compare with the 2004 model you will clearly feel you're on the same type of board but also clearly feel the 2009 model is just plain better. It's been a slow search forwards since that one big first step. The same goes for the small Kodes that has "genes" dating back from the Acid 74 and 94 2004, I think it was. And some of the heritage goes back even further. And that's not even mentioning how the construction of the boards are slowly evolving.

As Tiesda writes, of course there will be people liking and people disliking any boards. And luckily there and many successful brand on the market, producing big variety of boards. So the customers can chose. And each brand has their way of marketing. If it is important to you how a brand markets its product, pick one that has marketing in your taste. Personally I rather like to chose boards on how they work on the water though. And I think most people do. With the internet and all forums. it's not hard to get relevant information from sponsored but also unsponsored sailors. True, often people tend to hype the product they just bought - it seems to be some basic human psychology behind that - but even so the true essence of a given board will sort of shine through. And since, as you say, most boards are good nowadays, only different, it's never been easier to get a hold of a good board that suits your needs. So just go out and sail the board that makes you the most happy.

Aloha,

Unregistered
7th July 2009, 04:39 PM
Good points well put.

jasmin
7th July 2009, 09:20 PM
Hi everybody,
watching your dicsusion for last couple of days about quad. Personaly, i dont't
have waves in my country, so my experienece is pure, we do ride wave borads but there is just no big waves. I think quad is very interesting, idea to solve problem with 4 fins on this position is completely fresh. Is it that good? We'll see. Is it effort worth trying? Apsolutely, that's what R&D about.
MArketing....yes, ST is big on advertising, but why not? Compare this name with some other names in sport, anywhere, behind every major crown there is
advertising, even bigger then here. Do they state facts? As everybody else.
Do they win? Check ratings in PWA or elsewhere. Do we all ride easyier, faster,
in lower winds....yes, we do.
I'm in windsurf since 1986 and my first D2 raceboard. I worked as importer for Fanatic for more then 10 years, as from this spring I ride on Futura 111 for the first time and I am completely satisfied. Is it best? I really do not know.
Is it good? More than that. And that is it, i made my decision as my friend with other brand. No harm in diferent options, just oposite, i respect ST for searching into new concepts, sometimes recognised as totaly success and somtetimes not. Imagine windsurf without this principle.........

Keep on good work and surprise us again,

Jasmin
Croatia

Unregistered
7th July 2009, 09:21 PM
Its seems starboard is damned if they do, and damned if they dont.
i think destructive criticism is just that, and worth nothing.
I think their are some stoopid ( yes i spelt that wrong) statements here.
I havent heard of many companies that didnt have a business model, part of that being to make money!!
How do you expect to get your ideas out if you cant pay your staff?
More specifically to pay the designer so he /she can eat and have a roof over his /her head.
Then to try new ideas and in the end ..............yes sell product.
Hype? yeah it exists, but trying to eake/separate out the hype from the performance is well.... impossible.
Starboard has had some great ideas and have more then made up for any "percieved misteps.
Buy what you like!
You dont like the quad? dont buy it.

Shut up with the whining and destructive comments and ...., go away.


Be constructive not destructive.

shredulato.

Unregistered
8th July 2009, 12:30 AM
I gree with some of unregistereds comments.
Yes Starboard have developed the sport and made some good boards in process. I also think us sailors are a pretty gullable lot aswell.
Short wide;long thin; short harness lines; long. Big single fin;Twinzers ;Quads ; What next ???
If boards/rigs had developed at rate claimed we`d only need one board and a couple of sails ??
In 1987 I went to Canaries for first time. Took one board 3 sails and sailed everyday.(3 weeks)
Going again soon ; taking MORE kit !!!! (2 boards ; 5 sails !!!) Progress ??? Marketing ??? Business ???

Starboard do sponsor loads and loads of sailors.In one sense great but the more cynical might see it for something different ?? Who`s right ????

Starboard DO spend more on brochures/advertising but it works ??? Again 2 ways of looking at it . If they didn`t; probably no Starboard. ??!!

In an ideal world all things would sell purely on merit. Its not an ideal world.
Having said that I dont believe Ferrari or Rolls Royce (cars) spend a jot on advertising . (Ferrari spend a few quid on sponsorship though)
Ford on the other hand plough back vast chunks of their profit into "marketing".

Some things can sell on merit; but they tend to be the very very expensive end of spectrum.

There`s a balance somewhere between naive and cynical.

Its healthy to view any big corporation with a degree of sceptcism.

Farlo
8th July 2009, 03:33 PM
When I started windsurfing I used to change board every year, not so much because of advertising but for the excitement of trying new things, to my desillusion sometimes. Boards were cheaper at the time and easy to resell. I was always sceptical about the 20% improvement promised every year (mostly for sails) but I learned to read test reports between lines and managed to find out what works for me, so I could keep my gear longer. Some years ago I started buying new boards again and got a S-Type, not because of hype but program and dimensions and advices from my shop (I did'nt know Starboard then). And yes!! it was much more fun. I've tried other boards since but kept a S-type for you get so much fun. Starboard does a lot to promote our sport and yes, they make money. So what? They have not killed anybody so far. Fanatic and others keep doing excellent boards and there is more choice than ever. If you can't afford the latest thing or dislike the hype, just wait until it is over and buy second hand. Or maybe you feel frustrated because hype works on you? Then blame yourself, not Starboard.

Unregistered
9th July 2009, 05:53 AM
You know the s type comes up quite a bit in these forums !
And its not because people dislike it!!
I bought an s type 104 early last year and it is by far the most exciting board i have sailed for awhile. I primarily sail lake conditions not ocean, so its chop, and wind driven swell and gusty wind.
I prefer the ride of the s type over the new futuras, 93 and 101 ,which while nice have a locked in feel, and arent as loose.
They also seem to have a big front entry as opposed to the soft rounded s type.
The kode was nice as well reminded me of the s type, howver the one i rode was 83 litres.
It tough to compare apples to apples.
Among many , (some wave boards, so i cannot compare the intent of the s-type to them ), i tried and disliked the jp freestyle wave boards , they felt sticky.

.The chamfered double rail and the subtle rounded nose just gives it a very loose "skittish" ride, kevin pritchard implied the rails were there to make the board loosen up for supercross.( i say implied as i can quote him right now..other thread)
shredulato

Farlo
9th July 2009, 02:19 PM
Great boards for sure. Amazingly fast and controllable with their narrow/thick shapes. I've got the 115, 126 and finally a second hand 2005 ST104 Wood, which one I kept. It's my do-it-all board from 15 to 25 Knts now. Haven't tried the Futura yet, but not in a hurry. Maybe waiting for some more hype?

Unregistered
9th July 2009, 03:43 PM
Perhaps you should both try a Fanatic Hawk ? Or a Mistral Syncro RD ?
There ARE other brands !!!

Unregistered
9th July 2009, 04:49 PM
I tried Hawk and syncro. s-type much better, thats for sure

Unregistered
9th July 2009, 05:11 PM
Was that good Starboard dropped it !!!

mark h
9th July 2009, 06:52 PM
ST was dropped because superX was cancelled by the PWA. I think efforts then went into the second generation Carve. Im not sure of the figures, but I think SB did very well out of the ST as it seems to have been (and still is) a popular board. I tried an ST104, 115 and 126. Wasnt to keen on the st126 but loved the st104 and 115. My mates got a Hawk 114, I really dont like it, I tried the F2 Eliminator, hated it. Not tried the Syncro.

Farlo
9th July 2009, 07:58 PM
S-types are excellent at many things (freeride, freerace, B&J...) outside SuperX. I don't thing it was a good reason to drop them. But maybe Futura are better at anything but SuperX.

Floyd
9th July 2009, 08:33 PM
I replaced my carve(130) with S type 126. It wasnt what I was expecting. Sure it was fast when bordering on overpowered; handled chop better than carve but was no match for it in early planing. Dont think it went upwind that terrific either. (definitely not with original fin)
I also found it small (?) for its quoted 126 litres. All in all I dont think S type was one of #B`s success stories. Even with rule changes it would not have been dropped if it had been selling.
I think S type showed up the problem of hyping up a boards launch. (If you remember S type was eagerly awaited because of publicity it generated; I bought on strenght of it ;Doh !!!)
Board (IMO) just didnt live up to its billing.
Big launch for a board is fine; if it can live upto it. In a way starboard are victims of their own success.The carve really was so extradinarily good for its time. Its always been a hard act to follow !!!

Farlo
10th July 2009, 12:13 AM
Different people, different opinions. The stock fin was crap for sure but with a good fin the 126 goes upwind like hell. S-types were kind of UFO's with their narrow/thick shapes when everything was going flat and wide. Maybe not the best from Starboard but definitely amazing. Now the hype is long over and the myth starts building up.

Unregistered
12th July 2009, 01:57 AM
Its official then.
Starboard dont hype boards up too much or spend too much on sponsorship or advertising.They invented sport and are responsible for all its developments; produce best boards in all catagories and build boards for the benefit of mankind (especially sailors) All claims on site are absolutely true and their justifications are perfectly in line with current scientific principles.And they definitely dont grab all best sailors.
Posters shouldn`t give their opinions if they are in any way critical of #B (or Shredulato)
Oh and S Type was a fantastic board and it wasn`t the subject of biggest board launch ever. (Definitely not)
Oh and manufacturers (especially #B) dont have to tell us real figures on any meaurements of boards; their marketing departments can play around with them now and then so they float/ dont float/ plane earlier / suit market better.
Oh and cut outs do reduce drag !!
There`s no BS on this site except from non-registered.

mmmmm !!!!

Unregistered
13th July 2009, 08:54 PM
I agree that the s-type 104 is not so good upwind.
As one poster stated and the stock fin was just not up to the task.
too small IMHO.
A bigger fin would help but IMHO woul not completely cure that issue as the rail design probably does not help either as its too soft.
Front to mid board the rail is tucked under great for gybes and manuever but releases water the wrong way.
but the board is blistering fast with that fin as it is small and carves gybes like going thru liquid butter.
also due to rail design,
but you cant have one thing without losing another.
would love to be able to try the 115 or 126.
shredulato

Unregistered
13th July 2009, 09:25 PM
Just to state where i am coming from here , i dont not think starboards the best line up, not at all.
I am not sure who is.
I know what ive ridden and what works for me.
Are they a major player yes, do they innovate? yes, innovate alot yes , do they market the hell out of there gear YES YES YES big time.
I just think a comments that really lend nothing to a conversation and are negative are just not worth it for the reader or the poster.
Multi fins are nothing new. Starboard did not invent them IMHO.
6 years back or so I rode "realwind" boards in cabarete ( a tri fin) they werent new on the scene . Eleven years ago , i saw in use a gorge born multi fin board in use at lake arenal. The name escapes me, ( help??) designed in the gorge where nuclear winds are common, ( rented at arenal by "tico winds").
these were high wind boards , more chop crossover wave designs .
I think starboard just pushed the quattro fin in a pure wave design.


BUT I am critical of starboard!!

IE: price increase across the board this last year.
I am not happy with it , Its a big jump.
The Phantom was up big time!!
I am not sure why this increase happened.
we have some theories ie: sales are down , so is bottom line, so therefore prices must increase .
if this is true starboards business office is not innovating that for sure!!
As a sailor that would like to see more people enjoying windsurfing i am still hoping for the 1,000 dollar windsurfer.
Probably a dollar limit that undo able.
but i wonder where the intro buyer psychology put the bottom line at?
Any knowlegable marketing people out there?

shedulato

Unregistered
14th July 2009, 03:34 PM
Shred
Glad we`ve cleared that up then !!! Your last post was first in any way critical of #B; others were critical of those that were ! (and telling them to "shut up and go away" !!!

Its somewhat ironic and contradictory to be critical of #B`s pricing but not of the very things which cause that pricing . (Eg brochures;sponsored sailors and marketing)

Starboard learnt a long time ago your average sailor is very influenced by the big names and what they say/sail. Read on here and the constant reference to what Scot or Antoine or Bjorn say/sail/do. When in reality this has almost nothing to do with the sailing going on !!
(look at number of slalom boards sold and then the actual number of events)

Starboad do and always have (IMO) relied far too much on the "hype"; and the hype costs and doesn`t progress the sport as much as "real" innovation.(Which to be fair starboard have also played a part in) Just lose the hype. (look at the Kode "launch on here !!! I think its actually damaging their image now !!!)

Farlo
14th July 2009, 03:41 PM
Hi Schredulato, I wonder if the market is large enough to bring much more quantities, would the price drop below 1000 $. BIC always had a product range around 1000 € and yes, you see some on the water but not as much as you would expect. Many manufacturers seem to follow the "high sophistication - high price" strategy, some with an entry range which they promote mostly for schools. Maybe also us windsurfers don't like cheap products anymore. Once well powered and with a decent fin (e.g. Select SX) the ST104 is not bad either upwind, of course not like the 126 with its extreme rear straps position but fair emough. It's a good board, I wish you a lot of fun.

Unregistered
14th July 2009, 11:12 PM
I will try a bigger fin , I am having issues trying to get a good one up here in Canada.


unregistered.

ughhhhh am i feeding a troll here?? folks tell me and i will not post again.


unregistered , what is you approach to Starboard.

I know you dont like the level of hype. But as you post with no name i cannot know what you DO like, and do not . As reading through the posts i dont know who is you and who is another.

But after reading through ones i think are yours , ( a cursory glance at best as this is getting LOOOONG) it seems you like nothing .




So , do you like anything about starboard?

Is there one thing ?



If do can name one, just one, by your own logic; you are as ironic and opinionated as me.

Can I like starboards approach to some aspects of their whole ie: the stype , many of the other boards I have ridden and enjoyed

...sure i can.
Can i dislike some other aspects of the whole ie : the pricing , some of the hype yes.

there are two sides to any coin , a blade has two edges. I am human i AM opinionated and i can be IRONIC.

Now dont get me wrong i am not trying to "one up you" or beat you in any way shape or form, I dont know you and I have no personal gain form posting here in the real world

BUT ...I cannot figure out what you are other then a pure naysayer, or you have an all or nothing approach. see below***



***Sometimes disputants will refuse to consider any type of mutually beneficial agreement or relationship until the core intractable issues have been resolved. Usually, they hope that withholding normal relations will pressure an opponent into making concessions. While this strategy may be effective, it also blocks the relationship-building activities which can provide a basis for constructively addressing the core issues.

A similar problem is that disputants may be unwilling to pursue a short-term agreement and partial victory, because they fear that such an approach would undermine their long-term prospects of achieving their goals. Thus they take an all-or-nothing approach. They insist that the opponent be willing to make major concessions before they are even willing to open negotiations.


shredulato

Unregistered
15th July 2009, 05:37 AM
Shred
You should be writing #B`s press releases !! BS Baffles Brains.
PS
I like their pretty colours !
Love Evo ; Carve was great; Futura OK but too wide for volume. (for me).Kombat could have been a classic had it had PB. Isonic/Sonic is damned fast.

Dont like hype and BS.


Web site used to be fantastic; not sure now.(Too many folk with reactions like yours ! (ie tow the line or go to Boards Forum !!! (ie shut up and go away)

Bet you`ve just read a psychology book !!!


Yours Trolly

Good winds.

Unregistered
15th July 2009, 08:36 PM
Any firm that sells anything sits on a spectrum between all hype and no hype.(Hype meaning promotion/advertising etc etc)

Starboard are nearer the "all hype" end (IMO) but this can be productive /beneficial for end product.More advertising/hype/launches can (must to continue) produce high volume sales;possible lower profit margins and more R+D for customer/end product.

On other hand I dont think its good form to knock any opinions that dont agree with the "hype" model.They are expressing valid opinions and original question was about "hype". Obviuosly if you dont agree with the hype comments will be negative !!!
Shred remove your blinkers. There is a world outside WS and starboard !!!
Starboard do/have built some good boards.The have innovated but the do play the "hype" game and they are good at it !!! (Hypersonic ???? ; I hated it; didn`t agree with "science" behind it but lots love it ???)

Unregistered
15th July 2009, 09:11 PM
yeah, i didnt need a psychology book all i needed was to read this thread and look at my own reactions.
LOL
shred
I will however maintain that i am a fence sitter although i prolly act like a mindless drone of starboard .
You have to be a sinner to be saved.

Farlo
15th July 2009, 10:05 PM
Hi Schredulato, I won't comment any further on hype as/or marketing strategy. Don't hesitate to put a relatively large fin on your ST104. Yesterday I sailed it with a Naish Sprint 6.6 and a Select SX 36 in a solid 5 Bft. Very smooth upwind against shops and damn fast downwind, without any spinout or tail ride. Surprisingly it wasn't worse upwind (not to say better) than many other boards on the spot. Moreover you always feel easy going donwnwind in moderate chops, despite the frightening speed. This is no hype but true sensations.

Svein Rasmussen
16th July 2009, 01:15 PM
Dear all.

Great to see the debate around the Quad and our other development programs.
I appreciate Mr. unregisters comments, as he is actually creating more traffic to this forum than anyone else at the moment, very cool.

Itís a fact that we work quite hard to develop gear, and yes we have had certain ďsalesĒ disappointments concerning some product lines over the last 15 years,
maybe one every 3-4 years in average. ďSalesĒ disappointments do however not need to relate to the products.
I do not know if Mr. Unregistered is a friend of mine or someone we have met on the beach over the last 30 years,
but I really would like to take this opportunity to lead him and the others behind our development scene for a moment:

Now coming to the 5 board designs that Mr. Unregistered feels have let Starboard down.
Aero, this board range development continued under the name Kode, as we wanted to have one range of boards going from wave to cross over to lighter winds,
it now lives on very successfully as the larger sized Kodeís.
Hypersonic, when it was launched it had an outline which was extreme for its time.
Our development continued based on that outline and if you look at the Worlds best selling slalom board ,the Isonic 122,
you will see where the base of outline development came from.
At the time we launched the Hypersonic, Slalom hardly existed anymore and the Hypersonic created renewed interest in Slalom and was sitting alongside the at that time current Sonic program.
To simplify we wanted to offer only one Slalom range, thus the Isonics . The huge advantages of the Hypersonics concaveís for upwind tracking were sacrificed for the better jibing of the Sonics. The Hypersonic was voted board of the year by Boards mag( which normally is quite critical to Starboard) and in our campaigns we used slogans that were simply taken from magazine tests. We still today have people who ask if we could re launch the Hypersonic range.

The Hybrid Carve was a really exciting development, we basically put a duck tail on a Carve freeride board and added a dagger board. We saw this concept in an Exocet Kona the year after. I loved both the Kona and the Hybrid Carve, but the problem was that the board did become a bit heavy with the box and and the daggerboard, the concept was very different from what people were used to, and we did a lousy marketing campaign, I think we did not have magazine adds and also I did not see any tests.I am the first to admit that our marketing is quite slack , between Tiesda and me running the brand and doing the development, we often have lost out on doing proper product launches, thus often did not do a strong enough sell.
The Apollo was our earliest planing light wind board ever. The downfall was that the FW class did not want to increase the fin size limit from 70 to 75 cm, and this board would need to carry that extra fin length to take advantage of its wider tail. Also the following year the FW class did not want to consider changing to a deeper fin and in the third year we gave up, as the class still did not want to consider allowing earlier planing fin combinations. This still bugs me a little, and hopefully we can change for 012.
As you may know , windsurfing is my passion, I started on the water when I was 14, sailed all the winters in Norway, dragged my board to the end of the ice, I never took time off for an education. I ended up with some US$ 10,000 after my 15 years travelling the world. Then I thought, the only thing I have an interest in is windsurfing, so I started to make boards, probably one the of least lucrative industries in the World, but who cares, if one likes what one does, one might succeed.
I was spending a lot of time trying to figure out how we could make windsurfing more attractive and and easier for everyone , and still do.
One concept ( my brain child) was to make a board that could fit inside a bus or even a sedan car. With a board this size one would not need a drivers license or the cash to purchase a car. I used to bring my Windsurfer One designs on the train, and had learned a few things about transport problems.
We made an enormous amount of prototypes and in the end we had the Compact. My mistake was that I did not let taller and heavier people test it, something I have learned from. We during later development have found that there is a direct relation between the height of a person and the board length. When the board becomes too short for a tall person, it does not settle into comfortable ride. Also I realized that most people do not use the rig so actively for getting planing as I do myself, so I practically made a board that fit myself and smaller people. This was a mistake , and I now put on weight jackets to check how heavier sailors might feel.

Then when we look at the overall picture of our designs , tests and results , we have not been lagging behind any other board maker and we have outsold them all 8 years in a row based on good products , and keeping in mind that we advertise less than our closers competitors. Please also be aware that when we started our business we had no distribution network or financial support, which the other current leading brands had from the day they were taken under the umbrella of their current parent companies. I believe only RRD share this lonely road with us, building a brand on products and service.

Concerning the Quad,, well, you just have to try one to better understand the way it changes wavesailing.
After we got onto that program, my perception of wavesailing totally changed and I am more fired up about getting into the waves than ever.
The very fact that the Quad also is pointing well and gets going early, is the unexpeted additional bonus to what is the most incredible wave board I have ever tried.

Happy days ahead.
Svein

Unregistered
16th July 2009, 08:23 PM
Think it speaks volumes about a company when Svein is willing to come in and offer his views.I applaud his commitment and achievements with the company.
There is obviously an openess not evident in most other maufacterers.

For my part I have not criticised #B products.When so many boards have been built there are bound to be some better than others. Some great; some not so. Its bound to be the case.I have said a some dont suit me ; which is different.

The only issue I find "negative" is #B`s willingness to make quite rash claims/statements about their products and their effects on the market.

For instance (Quote)
"Slalom hardly existed anymore and the Hypersonic created renewed interest"
Is that really the case ???? I agree Slalom (competition; especially at grass roots level) had almost disappeared but
a) I cant remember that situation actually changing.(Admittedly that opinion is based on where one actually lives/ sails but I have yet to witness any slalom events in almost 20 years. (approx 100 sailing days per year) outside PWA events in Canaries. Back in 80`s there were loads of adhok race meetings/local race events/slaloms.That situation is exactly same post and pre Hypersonic.Is it different in other countries ???? Perhaps; I dont know.

b) And if slalom had become more popular how can it be assumed a particular board had caused the added interest ??? It just happened to coincide ?? With all due respect Svein that is exactly what "Hype" is. (IMO) Exaggerating the effects the board will have or has had.
Is there really any evidence to suggest that slalom was all of a sudden more popular and that Hypersonic had caused it ??? Based on sales of slalom boards ??? Number of events ??? Number of participants in events ???
It seems strange to me that such claims can be made about a board I have only ever seen 3 of ; one in a shop and 2 being sailed ? Perhaps I`m sailing/sailed at wrong venues???

Good winds. I`ll demo a Quad .(Wont be selling Evo though)

Ken
16th July 2009, 11:31 PM
Unregistered,

Slalom racing in many parts of the world died for one reason - lack of consistent winds, strong enough to support fair competiton with the old slalom gear that was available at the time.

Slalom has had a resurgance for two reasons, one of which is the development of the light wind slalom board that can handle large sails and plane in 8-10 knots. And yes, the hypersonic played a role in this new development, but so did a number of other boards. I race a Bic Techno 283 with a 9.2 sail for a few years around the time the hypersonic showed up.

The other reason is marketing and sponsorships. Course and Formula racing had and still have a tough time finding sponsors because they are not spectator friendly. On the other hand, freestyle, wave and slalom events (PWA) have great spectator appeal, which correlates with sponsorships and money.

Locally (Texas), slalom racing is still essentially dead because of the lack of wind at events, as well as the logistics of running a slalom event (downwind). Actually, this spring we had winds to 30 knots at three of our four major events, and did race slalom at two of them, but this was pretty unusual (one figure 8 and one downwind).

I do applaud Starboard for their innovativeness and broad line up of boards. Good things do happen often of you push the limits of development. Dogs will be produced from time to time, but witout risk taking, progress is limited.

Just my thoughts.........

Unregistered
17th July 2009, 02:20 AM
But Ken where/when was the re-surgence ?
I`ve not seen evidence of any slalom (outside PWA) let alone sub-10 knot slalom ?
Do board sales support the argument ?In which countries ? Where ???
Where are the events ? How many participants ? Did Hypersonic have anything at all to do with it?

Starboard are the No 1 manufacturer.No doubt. They ARE the leading light with innovation/development/+technically. I dont think that is in dispute and I`m pretty sure the stats are there to demonstrate this opinion. But Starboard should not make "claims". They should state facts in the position they are now in. Imagine what we would think of Ferrari as a leading technological player in the car world if they regularly made both technical claims and marketing ones which were clearly at best in dispute. Its just not good for the brand image. Fair enough lots of sailors just accept the "claims" but the older and probably more cynical delve deeper and think " hang on a minute thats not exactly how things are"
Over years there have been quite a few. Look back on forum; examine site. ???
If Starboard make a technical statement it should be beyond reproach or backed up by evidence and not heresay/opinion.

I accept it sounds pedantic but its just how things should be.If starboard make a statement like
"promotes early planing" or " cut outs reduce drag " that should be be fact with some scientific reasoning and not some testers/designers opinion. (IMO ???)
Lets face it even the volume of boards still seems to be difficult to measure which is plain crazy !!!

We`ve had it for years in WS.
Sails with wider wind range ? Boards that plane earlier year on year ; boards that go upwind better year on year ? Boards that gybe better/easier? Its at the point now where many sailors are thinking "here we go again".

Seems to me manufacturers need high volume sales but haven`t got high volume market; consequently current sailors are encouraged to chop and change chasing progress and possbly getting novelty ? Sorry Svein its how I see it .
And that is not accusing Starboard in any way of not producing a good product. They do !!!

Unregistered
17th July 2009, 07:33 AM
Frankly I don't care what Bjorn or whoever is doing. And windsurfing magazines always leave me feeling like I am participating in a different sport.

What I like about SB is that they build boards for light wind conditions. I first planed in the straps with a GO. My son is learning to sail with me alongside him on a Gemini. I spun my first carve Jibe on a FreeSex.

Point is: ws is a hard sport to learn. And SB seems like the only firm trying to make it easier for the masses. For that very reason alone I'm sure SB has lots of fans. And I am one.

Plus they do better graphics for ws demographics. How many 30-40 yo want to show up at the beach with graffiti painted on their boards?

Farlo
17th July 2009, 01:30 PM
Well I'm certainly amongst the "older and probably more cynical" sailors referred in post #83, but I see nothing wrong in the way Starboard is doing business. It's difficult to deliver always good products worldwide. There can be poor designs and quality issues from time to time, and there can be illegitimate claims or at least not backed-up with scientific data. This is part of the game. Being number one brings a lot more attention to you, but such things happen to others brands. Having used boards from various vendors, I think that Starboard's position is deserved. Of course, there are other excellent products. Ultimately customers will vote with their money.

Ken
17th July 2009, 09:44 PM
Unregistered,

Resurgence may be an overstatement, but since the PWA has moved in that direction for the reasons I mentioned above, slalom is appearing more often at local regattas when conditons allow. I can't back this up except for what I am observing in Texas.

I am not a big slalom advocate, especially for downwind events with large numbers and elimination brackets, basically because the average racer doesn't get much time on the water. I have always been big on course and formula racing simply because everyone gets to be on the race course for a lot more time.

Claims regarding what a new product will do or offer is just sales and marketing, and we as consumers must be skeptical about all claims regardless of who is making them.

Starboard like almost all retail companies must come up with new models every year to keep moving product. I personally think that they take steps backward occasionally in an effort to produce something new. I think the F 162 is one of those hiccups, but the upside is that overall progress for better products is probably enhanced with the pressure to produce new models every year.

I for one would like to see a successful product either stay the same or just change the color scheme for the new year (this does happen). I have a F 160 and know that it is a great formula board, so I am not compelled to replace it until it wears out, regardless of the hype for the newest model.

Your statement - "We`ve had it for years in WS. Sails with wider wind range ? Boards that plane earlier year on year; boards that go upwind better year on year? Boards that gybe better/easier? Its at the point now where many sailors are thinking "here we go again"."

Acutally, over the long haul, all of your statements are true. I started windsurfing in 1984 and can attest to the amazing progress over the last 25 years. On the other hand, things have leveled off over the last 5 years, with significant advancements at a minimum.