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View Full Version : q f remi or ian heavy isonic wood/carbon???


erik
3rd September 2009, 03:56 AM
Hi,

I bought a isonic wood carbon 121 today, board looks great.
When i picked it up it didn't feel very light, so i picked up my 2009 wood 133 and it was lighter????
I put the 121 on the scale and it weight (without footstrap) 7.1 kg. On the site the weight of a wood states 6.9 kg.
So my 122 carbon ways to much. i thougt that a carbon suposed to way at least 0.6 kg lighter to have an advantage over wood in light conditions?
Good there be a production error?

greetings from holland,

erik

Vando
3rd September 2009, 07:42 PM
Hi,

I bought a isonic wood carbon 121 today, board looks great.
When i picked it up it didn't feel very light, so i picked up my 2009 wood 133 and it was lighter????
I put the 121 on the scale and it weight (without footstrap) 7.1 kg. On the site the weight of a wood states 6.9 kg.
So my 122 carbon ways to much. i thougt that a carbon suposed to way at least 0.6 kg lighter to have an advantage over wood in light conditions?
Good there be a production error?

greetings from holland,

erik

Hi Erik I had the IS122 wood last year and I now have the Carbon 121 it defiantly feels lighter than my old 122.

Ian Fox
5th September 2009, 05:49 AM
Hi Erik,

It would seem unlikely that a 2009 Wood 133 would weigh under 7.1Kg - and if it did (does) then it certainly is well UNDER the weight tolerance range of the 133.

Regarding the weight difference with Wood+Carbon (in 121 size) the saving is typically about 400-500grams - and the performance difference is achieved not only by weight reduction but also by the more direct structure of the carbon board (in the lighter wind/flatter water conditions range).

As you will be aware, there is a certain weight tolerance range on all boards that are produced, (typically +/- 5% ) and usually in turn based on an average weight (which is often determined only after a certain qty of each size/type has been produced in order to confirm a true "average".

The Wood+Carbon is a premium product ; should you be unsatisfied with any asect of your purchase, please refer (in the first instance) thru your supplying dealer (or importer) for their check/investigation and resolution.

Cheers ~ Ian

erik
6th September 2009, 01:31 AM
Hi ian,

thank you for your, as usual , very analistic answer.

I went to importeur holland and they had another board 121 carbon that was 6.4 kg instead of the 7.1 kg. I can switch the boards so i am satisfied.

what can be the cause of such (big ?) weight diffrences??

Greetings from holland,

erik

Floyd
6th September 2009, 06:18 AM
Not on team but I read somewhere that biggest variation in weight of boards is in foam ;the foam can be more/less dense according to temp/pressure on day its produced. Obviously manufacturer can control temperature but cant control ambient (air) pressure.
(ie I believe high pressure days cause a more dense foam; since size is constant (relatively) the change in foam density produces the slight variation in weight. (Lay up resin/carbon/kevlar/wood etc will be very tightly controlled)

??????????????

Screamer
6th September 2009, 07:37 PM
Hi ian,

thank you for your, as usual , very analistic answer.

I went to importeur holland and they had another board 121 carbon that was 6.4 kg instead of the 7.1 kg. I can switch the boards so i am satisfied.

what can be the cause of such (big ?) weight diffrences??

Greetings from holland,

erik

Most mfg's allow for 5-6% difference (from what I've measured in the past it was always less than that), but in your case it's more like 10% for a 7kg board. Way too much.

Good you've exchanged it.

ThierryP
3rd January 2010, 10:19 PM
On the French Forum, Christine has measured the 2010 iSonic 121 woodcarbon at 150 grams heavier than the 2009 wood. Not a lot more, but then there is the small matter of the extra $$$ we pay for the exotic and supposedly lighter material.

davide
4th January 2010, 12:10 AM
On the French Forum, Christine has measured the 2010 iSonic 121 woodcarbon at 150 grams heavier than the 2009 wood. Not a lot more, but then there is the small matter of the extra $$$ we pay for the exotic and supposedly lighter material.

I suppose that what matters is not so much the weight (a 6oz fabric is a 6oz fabric, no matter if glass or carbon, and there are just so many ways to layer a sandwich board, go 4.4oz carbon vs 6.0z glass and you save what ... 80 grams?) but the ride characteristics that a material might produce.

Besides, I really believe that plus minus one Kg is irrelevant when the total package (board, sail, rig) is anywhere between 90 and 150 Kg. Try, put a 1Kg weight in front of your straps and try to spot a difference!

nonopr
4th January 2010, 01:12 AM
No matter what material is used. This are production boards and they tend to be overbuilt a little to sustain abuse for years, when the contratry on a custom carbon board.
If you want a board that is super light weight then go to a custom board.

Remi
6th January 2010, 05:49 PM
Hi All,

The production have a tolerance of 5% but also the volume of the iSonic 121 increase compare to last year, so more material = more weight. Anyway the average weight is 6,56 and last year was 6,85 with 5 liters less, so can be max 6,88 or min 6,23.

iSonic 94 2009 : 92 l / 2010 : 91 l
iSonic 101 2009 : 97 l / 2010 : 100 l
iSonic 111 2009 : 110 l / 2010 : 111 l
iSonic 122 2009 : 113 l / 2010 : 118 l
iSonic 133 2009 : 127 l / 2010 : 129 l
iSonic 144 2009 : 137 l / 2010 : 137 l

All the best

Ken
6th January 2010, 10:20 PM
Remi and the rest of the Team,

If the stated volumes of the iSonics listed above by Remi are true, then all of the published volumes in the products section of the web page are incorrect (except for the 111).

Why do you continue to do this? Just publish the true volumes so the consumer doesn't have to guess, wonder or research the correct answer. I thought you had gotten past the "virtual volume" phase of your marketing.

Many of us around the world have to deal with highly variable winds or big lulls or wind shadows. Knowing what your board will do when the wind drops below 5 knots is important information. The difference of up to 9 liters ('09 122) between actual and real volumes makes a difference to many of us.

Model numbers and volumes don't have to match. Either list the actual volumes or change the model numbers, but don't keep misleading us.

I love your products, but I fail to understand why this issue continues to persist.

Nicci
6th January 2010, 11:11 PM
iSonic 94 2009 : 92 l / 2010 : 91 l
iSonic 101 2009 : 97 l / 2010 : 100 l
iSonic 111 2009 : 110 l / 2010 : 111 l
iSonic 122 2009 : 113 l / 2010 : 118 l
iSonic 133 2009 : 127 l / 2010 : 129 l
iSonic 144 2009 : 137 l / 2010 : 137 l


Hi Remi.
Could you be so kind and publish the same table for the Futura, i.e 09 and 10 true volumes.
Regards,
Nicci

Remi
7th January 2010, 09:56 AM
Hi Ken,

I understand your point we plan for 2011 boards to make as close as possible, you have to understand that we have the real volume from Cobra after we name the boards with the estimate volume, but this will be correct.
Anyway the volume is definitely not the more important information to choose the board, you can have a very fat board who carry only small sails and the contrary. The information below will help you more to choose your boards.

iSonic 86 Slim : Sl4 30/5mē / 32/5,4 / 32/5,8 / 34/6,2 / 34/6,5 / 34/6,8
iSonic 86 : Sl4 30/5mē / 32/5,4 / 34/5,8 / 34/6,2 / 34/6,5 / 34/6,8 / 36/7,2
iSonic 94 : Sl4 32/5,4mē / 34/5,8 / 34/6,2 / 34/6,5 / 34/6,8 / 36/7,2 / 36/7,5
iSonic 101 : Sl4 34/5,8mē / 36/6,2 / 36/6,5 / 36/6,8 / 38/7,2 / 38/7,5 / 38/7,8 / 40/8,3 / 42/8,5
iSonic 111 : Sl4 36/6,2mē / 36/6,5 / 36/6,8 / 38/7,2 / 40/7,5 / 40/7,8 / 42/8,3 / 44/8,5 / 44/8,8
iSonic 121 : Sl4 38/6,5mē / 40/6,8 / 42/7,2 / 42/7,5 / 42/7,8 / 44/8,3 / 46/8,5 / 46/8,8 / 46/9
iSonic 131 : R16 42/6,8mē / 44/7,2 / 44/7,5 / 46/7,8 / 48/8,3 / 48/8,5 / 50/8,8 / 50/9 / 52/9,8
iSonic 144 : R16 44/7,2mē / 44/7,5 / 46/7,8 / 48/8,3 / 48/8,5 / 50/8,8 / 50/9 / 52/9,8 / 54/10,7
iSonic 150 : R13 48/7,5mē / 50/7,8 / 52/8,3 / 52/8,5 / 54/8,8 / 54/9 / 56/9,8 / 56/10,7 / 58/11

Hope this help

All the best

Remi
7th January 2010, 10:16 AM
Hi Nicci,

Please found below the volume for the Futura 2009 and 2010 :

Futura 93 : 2009 94 ; 2010 94
Futura 101 : 2009 101 ; 2010 101
Futura 111 : 2009 111 ; 2010 111
Futura 122 : 2009 116 ; 2010 114
Futura 133 : 2009 130 ; 2010 131
Futura 141 : 2009 137 ; 2010 134
Futura 155 : 2009 161 ; 2010 161

Futura 93 with Overdrive 6 & 6,5 with C3 Venon 36
Futura 101 with Overdrive 6,5 & 7 with C3 Venon 38
Futura 111 with Overdrive 7 & 7,5 with C3 Venon 40
Futura 122 with Overdrive 7,5 & 8 with C3 Venon 42
Futura 133 with Overdrive 8 & 8,5 with C3 Venon 48
Futura 141 with the Overdrive 8,5 with C3 Venon 50
Futura 155 with the Overdrive 8,5 & 10 with C3 Venon 50

This kind of package will be very efficient for long distance race or
with similar sails.

For those who prefer to get more maneuverability and something light
in your hands but still want speed :

Futura 93 with NCX 6 & 6,5 with the production fin
Futura 101 with NCX 6,5 & 7 with production fin
Futura 111 with NCX 7 & 7,5 with the production fin
Futura 122 with NCX 7,5 & 8 with the production fin
Futura 133 with NCX 8 & 8,5 with the production fin
Futura 141 with NCX 8,5 & 9 with the production fin
Futura 155 with the NCX 9 with the production fin

Of course this is just recommendation, you can use what you want but
stay in the wind range for each board that you can found here :
http://www.star-board.com/2010/products/board_futura.php

All the best

Ken
7th January 2010, 10:28 PM
Remi,

I understand naming the boards with estimated volumes early in the development phase. I also understand that the actual volumes may vary from the early estimates. All we are asking for is for Starboard to update their web site so that the ACTUAL volume are published when they are known.

Please don't tell me -

"Anyway the volume is definitely not the more important information to choose the board"

When the board is not moving, volume, weight and width are the only important things to know. This doesn't apply to all windsurfers, but for some of us, we want to know the ACTUAL VOLUMES. If there is some logical reason Starboard can't supply the correct information other than on the forum, I am willing to listen to the explanation.

Thanks for your understanding.

Nicci
8th January 2010, 03:22 AM
Hi Nicci,

Please found below the volume for the Futura 2009 and 2010 :

Futura 93 : 2009 94 ; 2010 94
Futura 101 : 2009 101 ; 2010 101
Futura 111 : 2009 111 ; 2010 111
Futura 122 : 2009 116 ; 2010 114
Futura 133 : 2009 130 ; 2010 131
Futura 141 : 2009 137 ; 2010 134
Futura 155 : 2009 161 ; 2010 161

Futura 93 with Overdrive 6 & 6,5 with C3 Venon 36
Futura 101 with Overdrive 6,5 & 7 with C3 Venon 38
Futura 111 with Overdrive 7 & 7,5 with C3 Venon 40
Futura 122 with Overdrive 7,5 & 8 with C3 Venon 42
Futura 133 with Overdrive 8 & 8,5 with C3 Venon 48
Futura 141 with the Overdrive 8,5 with C3 Venon 50
Futura 155 with the Overdrive 8,5 & 10 with C3 Venon 50

This kind of package will be very efficient for long distance race or
with similar sails.

For those who prefer to get more maneuverability and something light
in your hands but still want speed :

Futura 93 with NCX 6 & 6,5 with the production fin
Futura 101 with NCX 6,5 & 7 with production fin
Futura 111 with NCX 7 & 7,5 with the production fin
Futura 122 with NCX 7,5 & 8 with the production fin
Futura 133 with NCX 8 & 8,5 with the production fin
Futura 141 with NCX 8,5 & 9 with the production fin
Futura 155 with the NCX 9 with the production fin

Of course this is just recommendation, you can use what you want but
stay in the wind range for each board that you can found here :
http://www.star-board.com/2010/products/board_futura.php

All the best

Thx Remi! :)

Remi
8th January 2010, 01:07 PM
Hi Ken,

Understand your point and agree, I forward your request to the Marketing Team but can you explain me why you need the weight for non planning?

All the best

Ken
8th January 2010, 11:35 PM
Remi,

Board volume allows me to compare buoyancy against:

The combined weight of the board, rig and sailor.

This gives me a precise idea of how the board floats in light winds. Granted, a kilo difference in boards won't make much difference in the overall floatation, but we all want to know exact board weights as well as volumes when shopping for a new board.

Thanks for your response and hopefully the marketing team will get the message.