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joe_windsurfer
25th October 2009, 03:41 AM
newbie to the SB Formula world here...

boards seem to have been around since 1999 and tails are getting wider and boards getting shorter

for someone with about 100 kg/220 lbs I imagine the Formula board I could look at would be 158 to 162 ??
no way i could purchase new and even one to 2 year olds are close to $1200

most of these have some dings, but no issue to me

any suggestions ?

est-ce que je devrais poser la même question dans la section francais ?

Remi
25th October 2009, 04:59 AM
Hi Joe,

At 100 kg in second hand, better to try to found a 161 or 162.

hope this help

All the best

joe_windsurfer
27th October 2009, 04:24 AM
merci Rémi !!

if one puts the same race sail - fully cammed 10.0 on both a FW 160 about 80 cm wide and compare it to a Formula 162 , what would be the benefits of one over the other ?

i already have the FW160 and am looking at a race 10.0, but also wonder about Formula - yes, can handle BIG sails, but what about the same sail ??

merci en avance ...
joachim

Remi
27th October 2009, 08:20 AM
Hi Joachim,

The F 160 is 100cm wide as the F 161 & 162, you just plane earlier on the F 161 & 162 for the same 10m² due to the wide at 30cm who is bigger.

All the best

joe_windsurfer
27th October 2009, 05:16 PM
thx again ...
my FW 160 is an AHD FF 79 cm wide board
the SB F162 will plane how much sooner than the AHD ?
just wondering if i am going to spend $1000+ for little benefit ?
someone on another forum says i could gain about 4 knots ie plane in about 8 knots rather than 12 !!

merci en avance
joachim

michelb
28th October 2009, 01:14 AM
A lot earlier............. I'm 100 kg, I have the F161 + 10m sail I'm planning at 7 -8 knots with good pumping ( and gaastra sail), for sure other sails plane earlier than my gaastra.
Then I can hold the same sail up to 22 steady knots, over this..... chicken strap to the beach.

Saludos,

Michel

Remi
28th October 2009, 03:39 PM
Hi Joachim,

Comapare to 80cm wide board, of course big difference, Michel is fully right.

Have fun

All the best

joe_windsurfer
28th October 2009, 05:22 PM
sounds GREAT !!

one more question, if you permit ...
if U use a F161 with a 10+ sail in 20+ knots don't chop and front lift create issues ?

i have seen vids on U-tube where the F board lifts dramatically !!

thx again
u guys r a real help !!!

Ken
28th October 2009, 09:41 PM
Joe,

At 100 kg, you should be able to keep the board on the water with a 10.0 and 20-25 knots. It may take some dedicated practice in windy conditions to feel comfortable, but it can work.

I am an amateur, but I have raced with many top pros in 25 to 30 knots, 1.5 meter chop with most using 9-10 m sails. Most of the sailors were in the 85 - 90 kg range, so it's doable. I can't handle sails that large in those conditions, but I also don't practice on my formula board when it gets that windy. I weight 79 kg.

The most important issue in order to keep your board on the water is to keep the power on in the gusts, especially on a beam reach or upwind. If you "chicken out" and sheet out the sail, the pressure comes off the mast foot and the board can take off. I have sent the nose of my board straight up 2+ meters on a couple of occasions when I backed off on the power. The same thing can happen if you are on a fast downwind run and you chicken out and begin to head off to a beam reach.

It will be exciting, enjoy your formula experience.

joe_windsurfer
2nd November 2009, 05:07 PM
as i analyze the formula, i came across a W/S mag article about Antoine Albeau, who is also about 100 kg

he uses an iSonic 133 with a 9.8 sail in winds where others use Formulas. now i am NOT saying i can follow in Antoine's footstraps, but it begs the question

to go from a FW/free wide 160 to next board, is one better off with a 10.0 and Formula or racy 135 liter board - for a heavyweight that is ....

me thinks there is no simple answer

another reason i ask the question, is one fellow finds too much overlap with his formula and his FW 160 and is selling the FW. since i have the FW 160, should i get a formula or racy 135 ?

joe_windsurfer
3rd November 2009, 05:05 PM
and if U schlogg , what's worse ?
133 liter slalom racer or Formula board ?

pfaffi
7th November 2009, 10:05 AM
I use F162 and F161 with max 11,7 compared to my iS144 with 9,8 I need 2-3knots more to start planing with SL. (184cm/90kg)
:-) pfaffi

joe_windsurfer
7th November 2009, 07:20 PM
pfaffi:

U bring many points up for discussion

if there only a 2-3 knot diff between 9.8 on iS and 11.7 on F161/F162 then it seems to me the difference is due to the sail AND not the board

what would the difference be if on the same day U used the 9.8 on the iS and then the same sail on the F161/F162 ??

here i am trying to streamline a quiver with the most TOW/time on water possible and you just have it all AND on top of it all, you have an F161 AND an F162 ^&*(&*(

i thought getting a Formula would be a simple call and yet people speak about the importance of getting the correct Formula AND they range from 147 liters (marked as 137 !!) up to 170 liters... and U have two that have a difference of 1 liter

now i am more confused than ever AND not more convinced that a Formula is the way to go :-(

thx
joe windsurfer

pfaffi
9th November 2009, 01:17 AM
Hi Joe!
In low winds 2-3knts are a big difference! My Formula/1,7 combo in sweet water starts planing with extensive pumping and my weight app. in 8knts. My iS144/9,8 app. in 10-11 knts and SL is slower and has no upwind ability than F in this conditions. If I use same sail on both (9,8) also F will win the planing/up/downwind because of bigger fin, wider tail and more volume in tail and by this much better pumping ability. We have tested this very often with always same results.
Why 161 and 162?: 161 was excellent so never sell it and 162 has better low wind characteristics. I think new HWR will be a hybrid of both (hope so)! For freeriding all F starting from 159 are ok. If you go for competition there are little differences, so its never the volume difference! If you have less weight and use smaller Formula sails start with F159 and it ends linear with max 12sqm and heavy weight sailors on the 162.

joe_windsurfer
17th November 2009, 04:21 AM
since people keep sayin go for the bigger board in formula for heavyweights
how come SB does not go for the 168-170 liter bracket again ?

JP seems to be goin there : http://www.raceyou.ru/thread2045.html#post20847

BelSkorpio
19th November 2009, 02:12 AM
Hi Joe,

I agree with pfaffi.
I'm 187m / 87 kg
I use a 9.5 m2 on a F161.
It needs extensive pumping at 8 knots to get it planing. BUT once planing, it stays planing.
I also tried a 11.8m2 on a F161. It allows faster & easier planing. Even from 6 knots. But this is really the bare minimum for me. At 6 knots also pumping is required to get going. Below 6 knots there is nothing that gets me going, I'm afraid. This is the point where windsurfing stops :(

I tried once my 9.5 m2 on a 145L board (no SB). It works starting from 11 knots, BUT far more difficult to point. While in 10-11 knots with a F161/9.5m2 I can really choose any course I want. Upwind/downwind it doesn't matter. No pumping required. The combination becomes a cruiser with which I could easily sail around an island, if you know what I mean.

I know that the 70 cm fin of my F161 helps a lot during pumping to establish the necessary lift to get it planing.

My F161 has easily doubled my windsurfing hours in summer time, when we don't always get the best wind conditions. Speed is of no importance for me in 6-12 knots. Planing is all that matters. No better equipment than a F161 for this !

Remi
19th November 2009, 04:38 PM
Hi Pfaffi,

We develop alot prototyp for this 2 new boards and we start with 160, 161 and 162 at the end the best boards was from the 161 and 160. So HWR and LWR born and can tell you they are better than the 162 and the prototype comming from.

Have great fun on the new boards.

All the best

Remi
19th November 2009, 04:41 PM
Hi Belskorpio,

"This is the point where windsurfing stops " : Not really just planing conditon. You still have boards who is working great under this limit, all the Race-Board and the most quicker and fun one is the Serenity:)

All the best

BelSkorpio
20th November 2009, 01:36 AM
Hi Remi,

Yes, I would like to try the Serenity once. Just need to find a place close to me where I could rent it.

Cheers.

pfaffi
20th November 2009, 10:01 PM
Hi Remi!
I have ordered both, the HWR & LWR. Hope will get the boards Feb.10!
I was working long time to get the best trim on my 162 and specially the right fin. Will be interesting what fins will work on the LWR. I expect on HWR same fin as 161 and 162? Jesper wrote that he was using a Kashy in Japan. Which one? Cutted ??cm
Cheers pfaffi

joe_windsurfer
23rd November 2009, 07:58 AM
as a heavyweight you all suggest the HWR and 160 + liter Formula boards
i have found a wood 158 liter formula for a decent price
how would that do for a heavyweight of 100 kg ??

thx in advance
joe windsurfer

Remi
23rd November 2009, 02:11 PM
Hi Joe,

It will be ok Heavy weight was using it some years ago, but just not up date compare to the HWR. If you want to race you will be out of the game, if it's just to have fun in light winds that will be enough good.

All the best

joe_windsurfer
26th November 2009, 05:29 AM
so far the biggest competition in the Formula world with SB seems to be Excocet

one fan of Ex says he had to return 3 Starboard Formula boards for warranty claims
are there often issues with brand new SB Formulas ??

also, what gives with the huge price ?

about $3000 for both SB and Exocet
it's not that much more styrofoam :-)
most non-formula windsurf boards are under $2000
we are talking about a 50% more cost
why ? je ne comprends pas ???

no choice for me but used market - and there are not many :(

Remi
27th November 2009, 05:19 AM
Hi Joe,

From where are you and from wich shop you get this USD price?

All the best

joe_windsurfer
28th November 2009, 12:23 AM
http://www.windspirit-direct.com/boards_details_ws_ca.cfm?fam_id=740

in CDN $$ = much cheaper :) yeah right
and this is 2009 prices with discount on right

Formula Experience - Tufskin 160 L $1,724.00 $1,710.00 CAD
Formula - Wood 162 L $3,104.00 $2,747.00 $CAD
Formula - Wood 162 L $2,656.00 $1,943.00 $CAD

so, yes there is a version under $2000, but others with taxes are over $3000 until specials hit
do not remember where i saw the exocet price - hang on - will check it out {can't seem to find it now, but was close to 3Gs tooo} okay found one in alberta for $2249 CDN i believe, but with no fin - so , about $2500 and not sure if alberta still has no tax...