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ZedZdeD
10th November 2009, 05:05 AM
this board has a specific potential :
- accessibility for beginners, performance for specialists
- wide wind range, notably very pleasant in light wind,
- affordable and durable in tufskin version,

it can be a large success if you make a monotype class out of it, with a few additional elements :

- for once, do it together, not alone. Share this design with other windsurf companies, everybody would have the right to build and sell it under its own brand, none would have the right to modify it. You will this way have critical mass for success. Also share with others the organization of regattas for promotional purposes.

- define a versatile monotype rig. Nothing excessive or ridiculous like formula one ton 12 cambers 12 sqm rigs. No. Back to performance in simplicity, no camber, reasonable size and weight for accessibility and versatility, from beginner to specialist (example North Duke 69).

- design must remain stable for a longtime. Only 5 guys will buy sth you have to change every year, for a fortune, to remain competitive. I saw a formula regatta on my lake recently, 10 participants ... brilliant.

I'm convinced this would be an opportunity to recover windsurf as a larger audience sport. Other current compromises, not sufficiently well thought, and done separately by one company, cant do (rsx horrible, kona one mediocre, bic 293 not versatile enough, formula ridiculous).

Del Carpenter
14th November 2009, 11:39 AM
I'm unable to think of any situation in which the idea of "Share this design with other windsurf companies.." would work. Why would other companies want to appear to acknowledge the superiority of a Starboard design? That is what they would be doing by manufacturing and selling Starboard's design under their own brand. That would undermine any claims for superiority for any of their other boards. Could they do that and expect to stay in business?

ZedZdeD
15th November 2009, 12:09 AM
if easier, they could design a new board together rather than adopting an existing design, Phantom 320 is only an illustration of what a meaningful compromise could be

the important thing is to do it together to have the critical mass for a broad success

anyway I dont think they are interested, they dont see the need and opportunity to reconcile competition and larger audience, so the sport loses audience, and competition too

they would rather propose their fat nonsense formulas with their one ton 12 sqm rigs for next olympics

another round with boards who interest nobody and are bought by nobody except the ten guys who use them for these competitions without liking sailing on them

innovation they are so good at is not only a matter of board design

Papounet
16th November 2009, 08:48 PM
if easier, they could design a new board together rather than adopting an existing design, Phantom 320 is only an illustration of what a meaningful compromise could be

To late.....
The One Design board is racing in a lot of countries
- versatile monotype rig
- design stable for a longtime
- critical mass for success

http://www.lbwindsurfing.com/kona/the-2009-kona-gold-cup-had-it-all/#more-419

Ok with a mast rail and upwind straps it will be better.

For the 320, too short, you need a long board for the program.

Papounet
16th November 2009, 09:49 PM
Look at this, just from last WE :

http://www.sailing.org/news/30280.php

Starting with the Equipment Committee recommendations, the Council approved the applications of the RS Tera for International Class status and the Laser Vago, RS500, RC44 and Kona for Recognised Class status, subject to them signing the ISAF Class agreement.

ZedZdeD
17th November 2009, 01:15 AM
yes, you're right, Kona One is the same kind of approach,
all good ideas are there, but, and that is just a personal opinion, I'm not too convinced by the board design (not top performance) and also the sail design (too large if idea is to reconcile competition and larger audience). I dont want to use a 9.5 rig, and mmost surfers I know also dont want to use what they see as excessive.
Kona One design is inspired by surf longboards, therefore probably provides good performance as a windsurf but not too outstanding
Starboard approach was to think of a raceboard and make it shorter, and believe me, I have one, 320 with 230 liters is a perfect compromise, it does not need to be longer, and really it provides superb sensations of a performance board, interesting and technical to sail from 1 wind knot to strong winds. Notably, sailing upwind blocked on the rail is great, reminds me of 25 years old Lechner memories. I would simply like it to be lighter, but then it would be out of program due to cost

Papounet
19th November 2009, 10:55 PM
I dont want to use a 9.5 rig, and mmost surfers I know also dont want to use what they see as excessive.
Think to the 90+ Kg guys (-:

Starboard approach was to think of a raceboard and make it shorter, and believe me, I have one, 320 with 230 liters is a perfect compromise, it does not need to be longer
Think to the guys who lived far from windy places. (-:

ZedZdeD
20th November 2009, 01:33 AM
I live in in Paris, sail most often in Lavacourt lake, not very windy situation

the board is perfect fun even in very slight winds, thats why I bought it reminds me of my old Lechner, and remains pleasant in planning conditions, even jibes incredibly narrow. It is interesting notably because it is very technical easy to sail, difficult to sail to its potential

concerning big sails, yes they may be useful for heavy surfers, but in the perspective of a monotype class, with the idea to reconcile competition and large audience practise, you have to elect a reasonable size rig. I teszted North 6.9 Duke and North 7.8 RAM F9 on the board, both are fine, 7.8 is better adapted though, larger sails in my opinion result in a loss of versatility and manoeuvrability

BelSkorpio
20th November 2009, 03:46 AM
ZedZdeD,

May I ask your weight ?

ZedZdeD
20th November 2009, 05:09 AM
sure, 76 kilos

230 liters proves well enough for such weight

previously I had tried to buy a longboard which was a Bic Jungle, 330 and 175 liters, it was already possible to sail with two persons on it, me and my girlfriend

with 230 liters, it is far beyond the need of flotability of one person. Intuitively one could expect a 320 board to be too short for light wind, but it is really not the case with the volume and general design principle (short raceboard) of this one

really the opportunity to rediscover the pleasure to sail in light or medium winds

Papounet
20th November 2009, 09:10 PM
I live in in Paris, sail most often in Lavacourt lake

Lavacourt...
A long time ago, when the trees were smaller & the wind stronger,
i had a lot of great days on slalom boards there.

But now, I need FW & 11.7 or Raceboard & 9.5.
Nothing else.

Il faut avouer que je n'y fait plus tremper que rarement l'aileron.
80 km plus loin Lery est plus venté et à partir de Paris la différence en temps de trajet n'est pas monstrueuse (-:

For the sail limitation, with a max of 7.8 you are excluding all the guys heavier than 80 Kg, like IMCO did before.

During the Raceboard Worlds, light wind most of the time, some choose 9.5 others 8.5 or 7.5 depending of theyre weight & ability.
http://ftp.dwsv.net/World_Championships_Raceboard_Mistral_2009/Equipment_List_Raceboard_%20World_Championships_20 09_Warnemuende.pdf

BelSkorpio
20th November 2009, 09:46 PM
Quod erat demonstrandum.


In general, I agree with you about the volume of the board.
It is indeed sufficient for almost any windsurfer in light winds.

On the other hand, I totally disagree about the rig.
Believe me, 90+ guys want to use 9.5 rigs and larger in light winds.
This is the only rig that gets them going and, oh boy, they just hate it when they get passed by a light weight windsurfer with a smaller rig.
Frustrating. On the other hand, they all smile when the wind rises and they can dictate the law of Physics.

Monotype equipment on the level of the rig in light wind conditions is just impossible.
You would end up in organizing different weight classes for a monotype competition class, resulting again in a small amount of competitors per weight class. This surely cannot be the goal.


Cheers.

ZedZdeD
21st November 2009, 01:45 AM
- lol je me disais bien que Papounet, ça ne devait pas être un écossais. Si ça te dit d'essayer cette Phantom dont il est question, je serai demain à Lavacourt (10 à 20 km de vent, soileil, 14 degrés, parfait pour une super journée avec ce type de matériel) -

at the beginning of the 14th century, i used to race in Open Division II class,
we all had a 6.5 sqm rig, and there was not so much difference due to weight, thanks to sufficient board volume
of course there was still some, but people enjoyed to race together, every Sunday in amateur races, simple, accessible and pleasant

last week I tried a 9 sqm North Warp
too heavy for me, not manoeuvrable enough, and if you let it in the water more than 10 seconds, you need a crane to take it out
stupid stuff, except for pro competition purposes

back to performance in simplicity. In my opinion, the obsession of planning at all costs has led to deviant gear, like laughable fat formulas and their mega sails. People have simply forgotten, as I had forgotten myself for many years, how pleasant, technical, interesting, it is to sail in light wind, provided you have appropriate gear and this new type of boards is perfect for that.

Denisignatov
29th November 2009, 01:43 PM
I wish 2 know which class most wanter for clan?
Soon ll start play on official server,.... and Ill play 4 some suport, please, which class better for clan,
and if I start play 4 some support/buffer, clan ll help me with equipment?

Привет,
Перехожу на оффициал сервер, буду играть сапортом/бафером, хотел бы знать какой сапорт вам больше всего нужен, да и такой вопрос, тогда поможете с одеждой/оружеем?

Разговариваю как на Английском так и на Русском.