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View Full Version : 54 kg Rider - Formula Board necessary for super lightwind planning?


agrelon
19th February 2010, 04:29 PM
Hi all,

I weigh 54kgs and was wondering whether or not a formula board would be necessary for me to get planning in 6-7 knots up or whether I could get away with something slightly smaller (Futura 144/133).

Using a 11-12m rig would probably be extremely tiring at my weight... I use a 7.5m with no problem at all.

What would be the best kit for me to get planing in as little as 6 knots?

Thanks.

sergio_k
20th February 2010, 12:09 AM
Agrelon, I'm 62 kg, and I've being chasing low end planning threshold for a long time now,
currently I use custom (lower volume/shorter/lighter ver of Mike's Lab L8) with 10 or 11 m2
race sail. Here's some info for you, to plane extra yearly you'll need at least 10m2 sail, super soft/wide 70+ cm fin, formula or 90+cm wide race board, short lenght is also good since it's more reactive to pumping, and a really good pumping technique.
7.5 sail m2 sail is too small, you might be able to get relativelly good planning results
with Isonic 133 and 9.0 m2, but Futura will not do it, you need clean sharp release/low weight that only race boards have. Formula will also provide much better angles, on
I133 it still will be BAF.

agrelon
20th February 2010, 11:22 AM
Yeah, iSonic 131 seems to be super wide for it's volume. Even the 121 looks massive in photos. What about formula experience? I'm guessing it doesn't plane as easily as the normal formula due to construction in Tufskin...

Apparently it's cheaper though... I can't find a price online for it.

I will try to test out some equipment, right now the wind is perfect at my spot for formula, too light though for my 106l.

sergio_k
21st February 2010, 10:37 AM
Yeah, iSonic 131 seems to be super wide for it's volume. Even the 121 looks massive in photos. What about formula experience? I'm guessing it doesn't plane as easily as the normal formula due to construction in Tufskin...

Apparently it's cheaper though... I can't find a price online for it.

I will try to test out some equipment, right now the wind is perfect at my spot for formula, too light though for my 106l.

FE is too heavy, light does make a difference when it comes to early planning,
plus not as responsive to pumping..

agrelon
21st February 2010, 07:49 PM
What sails do you use to optimise light wind planning?

Roger
21st February 2010, 10:49 PM
Hi Agrelon,
IMHO, the best sails for earliest planing are the Free Race designs.
Sailworks Retro, Gaastra GTX, NP V8, Severne Overdrive, NCX, and Glide.
Why?
These sails have the deepest draft (when rigged for light wind planing) so they give the best low wind power.
They have a huge tuning range where they work pretty well.
They are not the lean mean race sails that can be sailed grossly overpowered and are designed for top speeds, and stability in overpowered racing conditions.
These are formula race sails and normally have a somewhat limited range of tuning where they work the best.
They are also not flatter free race sails with even more limited tuning range, alot less draft.
The free race type sails (both cambered and camless) can be rigged with very deep draft, fairly tight leeches, so they have very good low wind power and can be pumped easily and effectively.
They can be leaned out, for better higher wind performance with more downhaul (to induce more twist and scallop in the upper panels) and more outhaul to flatten the lower panels in the sail. They cannot be leaned out enough to reach the same stability levels and top end speed as pure multi cam race sails, but the Sailworks Retro
has had some success in pretty high level races.

The width and lightness of a board for a 54 Kg. sailor can make all the difference.
If possible find a board that's at least 90 cm wide (older formula board, F-Type, or the one I think is the overall earliest planer on the planet for someone your size would be the '04 Free Formula 138.
Check this link:
http://2004.star-board.com/products/freeformula.asp
I had one of these, and I regret having given it to someone else on the team who has become the early planing queen at her sailing site.
It's very early planing, very fast once planing and goes through lulls like they aren't there.
96 cm wide makes it alot easier to sail, for a lighter weight sailor, than the larger/wider Formula, and F Type.
Also, you might want to look at some of the earlier Pro-Kids formula boards, the F-136
etc as they are designed for early planing for lightweight sailors.
Hope this helps,

Unregistered
21st February 2010, 11:40 PM
For early planing I would personally recommend the neil pryde " helium" rather than the v-8.
Ive compared both , "compared " being in sailed/raced the helium and my friend sailed the V-8 in heavy airs , we sailed both in light airs. And compared notes.
While the v-8 has alot more range in the top end, and it remains a comfortable sail in big gusts where one needs good draft stability .
However for light airs its a heavily built sail and as such feels heavy in light airs on the boom.
The helium is a lighter sail,feels lighter on the boom. Its performs good in medium air but loses it in big winds. You can really slack off the outhaul and make a huge draft. This works great off the wind, and this draft extends higher up the sail into the leech, then with the v-8 which has a floppier leech.


It is also more pumpable then the v-8.

again this is IMHO.

Jeff E of Canada

P.S. just got a maui sails MS-2 9.5 we shall see how this sail compares when the ice clears.

sergio_k
22nd February 2010, 10:44 AM
What sails do you use to optimise light wind planning?

Unlike 2 previous post, I only use full race sails with adjustable outhaul with my formula board, currently have 2 sails 9.0 and 11 m2 09 North Warp, what I don't like about Free race/no cam sails, is range, specially in upper limit, if wind comes up all it sudden, I don't want to be out control, also, upwind/down wind angle, stability in gusty winds and average speed.

agrelon
22nd February 2010, 05:57 PM
Yeah, my recently bought North F8 Ram 5.8m is fantastic for windrange. I can use it with quite light wind, more power due to the cambers and in huge wind too, again thanks to the cambers and shorter mast/longer boom. Used it in force 6 the other day an, having put my footstraps inboard and stuck a tiny fin on my board, was holding it no problem.

I guess a 8.5m Helium with say a iSonic Woodcarbon 133 would do quite a good lightwind job.

Jean-Marc
23rd February 2010, 12:07 AM
Agrelon,

Your best bet would be to ask Morane (56 kg) directly to learn whether or not she's able to start and sustain the planing as low as 6 knots of wind. BTW, she was using last year a Severne Code Red 9.8 m2 sail with a Formula 162 and a Deboichet R13 soft +8 rake 70 cm fin.

http://www.star-board.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7539

Cheers !

JM

mac33
24th February 2010, 02:05 AM
at 54kg a 7.5m is huge.

a 80kg person will benefit/plane quicker from changing from a 7.5m to a bigger size say a 9m or 10m.

for you the benefit will be much less.

if you want to plane earlier, rig your 7.5m sail fuller.

buy a carbon fibre ultra light board!

i use a fanatic 75 wide by 275 long, this board with my 7.7m is big enough for my 67kg.

including straps it weighs only 8.5kg.

found using sails of 9m plus to be tiring and not very enjoyable.

if you do buy larger sail, a sail with less battens/cams is easier to use.

Jean-Marc
26th February 2010, 03:29 PM
at 54kg a 7.5m is huge.

It's certainly too small to start planing as of 6 knots of wind.

i use a fanatic 75 wide by 275 long, this board with my 7.7m is big enough for my 67kg.

Again, your combo is for sure way too small to plane as of 6 knots of wind. With a 77 cm wide board and a 7.7 m2 sail, I need 11 knots of wind to start and sustain planing with my 65 kg. With the same board + larger fin and a 11 m2 sail, I need 7 knots of wind. To plane as of 6 knots, I need a Formula and an 11m2 sail. The difference between planing in 11 knots or in 6 knots of wind is huge: 4 Bft vs 2 Bft wind.

I'm pretty sure Morane can plane as of 6 knots of wind with a Formula and a 10 m2 sail, but the initial question was whether a Formula is mandatory to achieve this goal at 54 kg. Let see what Morane has to say about that.

Cheers !

JM

MOP
3rd March 2010, 01:45 AM
Is it really true that the sonic 131 will plane earlier than the futura 133 with for example element 8,5 or the ncx 9.0?

Both boards in wood carbon....

sergio_k
3rd March 2010, 06:29 AM
Is it really true that the sonic 131 will plane earlier than the futura 133 with for example element 8,5 or the ncx 9.0?

Both boards in wood carbon....

Shorter, wider, sharper rails, bigger fin will plane earlier with good pumping technique
for sure, but if you don't pump or more passive in your sailing style it will be about the same

agrelon
14th March 2010, 09:43 AM
It's certainly too small to start planing as of 6 knots of wind.



Again, your combo is for sure way too small to plane as of 6 knots of wind. With a 77 cm wide board and a 7.7 m2 sail, I need 11 knots of wind to start and sustain planing with my 65 kg. With the same board + larger fin and a 11 m2 sail, I need 7 knots of wind. To plane as of 6 knots, I need a Formula and an 11m2 sail. The difference between planing in 11 knots or in 6 knots of wind is huge: 4 Bft vs 2 Bft wind.

I'm pretty sure Morane can plane as of 6 knots of wind with a Formula and a 10 m2 sail, but the initial question was whether a Formula is mandatory to achieve this goal at 54 kg. Let see what Morane has to say about that.

Cheers !

JM

Could an iSonic 131 WC take an 11m2 ? I think that this board might be a better option for me than a full on formula board as I own a 7.5m2 sail which should work better with an iSonic 131 than a formula. If this iSonic can take this huge sail then it could be quite versatile with my 7.5m, giving it a pretty massive windrange.

agrelon
14th March 2010, 09:44 AM
(You mentioned taking an 11m2 on a board that is less wide than the 131, 77cm as opposed to 85cm, so I guess this setup should work in that respect.)

mark h
15th March 2010, 01:15 AM
Agrelon. I'm using a iS144 with 9m, 10m and 11m. 51cm and 57cm fins. I'm 105kg and 194cm. I guess this will be similar in sail carrying ability to the iS131 since there's only 8 litres difference in volume.

On the iSXXL, an 11m gives no real extra "early planing" benefit c/w 10m. This is due to the extra weight drag etc. 10m is the optimal max sail size for iSXXL. It'll work, but not to any advantage. Slogging with an 11m is no fun either. For me, the iS144 is best with a 9m/51cm fin. Light wind heaven:)

If your looking to get out on an 11m pretty often, but dont want to go full formula, take a look at the iS150. I once borrowed an iS150 from my local shop. I was very impressed with it. It does feel a lot bigger than the iS144 so will comfortably take an 11m, but I think it will be to big for your 7.5m. 9m would be the smallest real size for the iS144.

Even though SB state 6.5m to 10.5m for the iS131, its real usefull range is 9m to 10m (maybe 8.5 to 10m). I think you struggle to find a board that will truly work in the 7.5m to 11m range.

agrelon
15th March 2010, 05:33 PM
Agrelon. I'm using a iS144 with 9m, 10m and 11m. 51cm and 57cm fins. I'm 105kg and 194cm. I guess this will be similar in sail carrying ability to the iS131 since there's only 8 litres difference in volume.

On the iSXXL, an 11m gives no real extra "early planing" benefit c/w 10m. This is due to the extra weight drag etc. 10m is the optimal max sail size for iSXXL. It'll work, but not to any advantage. Slogging with an 11m is no fun either. For me, the iS144 is best with a 9m/51cm fin. Light wind heaven:)

If your looking to get out on an 11m pretty often, but dont want to go full formula, take a look at the iS150. I once borrowed an iS150 from my local shop. I was very impressed with it. It does feel a lot bigger than the iS144 so will comfortably take an 11m, but I think it will be to big for your 7.5m. 9m would be the smallest real size for the iS144.

Even though SB state 6.5m to 10.5m for the iS131, its real usefull range is 9m to 10m (maybe 8.5 to 10m). I think you struggle to find a board that will truly work in the 7.5m to 11m range.

Thanks for this information, especially about the difference between 10m2 and 11m2 only being marginal. Cheers, I hope to try some lightwind gear soon enough and see if I can pull together to cash to invest!

abeallen
16th March 2010, 03:22 AM
Excellent post.

Farlo
17th March 2010, 01:46 AM
Hi Agrelon, are you seriously considering a Formula and 10-ish sail? I would think that the additional weight of XXXL gear would make it useless for your 54 kgs. In other words, you may plane in 8/9 Knts with a 75 cm wide board plus 8.5 mē sail and 7/8 Knts with anything bigger (twice more expensive) but where is fun?

Remi
17th March 2010, 06:55 AM
Hi All,

Just for information : Formula with 70 fin and 10mē can plane at 6 knots easy for a rider of 55 kgs. Bigger sail will give no benefits at all. To heavy and not efficient, thanks

Morane is the good exemple and finish 3 at the last Formula Windsurfing World Championship in senior.

Hope this help

All the best

BelSkorpio
17th March 2010, 06:51 PM
Interesting, Remi.

It makes me wonder.

I'm 86kg and I know that I can plane with my F161/12m2 starting from 6 knots, with strong pumping to get going.
Now, am I technically able to plane as fast as a 55kg raider in these wind conditions ?
If not, starting from which wind force, am I techically capable to compete with such a light rider ?

agrelon
17th March 2010, 09:15 PM
Hi All,

Just for information : Formula with 70 fin and 10mē can plane at 6 knots easy for a rider of 55 kgs. Bigger sail will give no benefits at all. To heavy and not efficient, thanks

Morane is the good exemple and finish 3 at the last Formula Windsurfing World Championship in senior.

Hope this help

All the best

Thanks for this clarification, the thought of a 12m2 rig is quite overwhelming... Any sails you recommend? I was thinking the Severne Reflex Overdrive 9.7m could be good... I don't think the 0.3m2 missing would make much of a difference. Which sails do you prefer for formula/lightwind? Thanks again.

Remi
17th March 2010, 09:39 PM
Hi Agrelon,

The new Reflex is more powerfull than the Code Red 9,8 that Morane use last year, so that will be perfect with a better glide and cam rotation.

Hi BelSkorpio,

I am 88kgs and Morane can plane before me, but as soon I get planning I am faster due to my weight. Hope this help.

All the best