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View Full Version : Can you freestyle with a Carve?


stefan2511
6th January 2007, 03:52 AM
Hello,

I'm doubting about going to freestyle or going to freeride-slalom-race. So because of that I thought of a Starboard Carve 101.

I'm 60 kg and a progressive beginner (began in august 06). I can beachstart, plane in the footstraps and hooked, tack, low wind (non-planing) jibe and I'm working on my jibe when I'm planing. I use a G0 139 '06 :) and a 4.7 Loft Lip Wave 5.5 and np solo. In a while I will buy a Loft O2 Freeride 6.6 sail with RDM.

Do you think the carve 101 l. is a good idea for me? When I would like to try some freestyle, is this possible on a Carve? Is there a Carve from another building year that would be better for "freemove"? When I use a freestyle fin with a Carve, what could I do with this combination? Would the difference between the 2006 and 2007 be sensible for me, as a progressive beginner?

All other advices are welcome of course ;)

GEM
6th January 2007, 06:28 AM
Personally, at your stage, I would recommend that in planing conditions you work on planing jibes and fast tacks, as well as learning to chop hop. In sub-planing conditions, work on helitacks, sailing front-to-back, sailing clew-first, backwinded pivot jibes, sailing fin-first, and 'twiddly' moves like sail-n-body 360's.

The C101 is a fine board for learning all of those moves, and probably *B's best for your stage, since it will be the easiest board in the lineup to learn a planing jibe, and will work fine for all the rest of the stuff.

Have fun!

-Lampi-
6th January 2007, 04:48 PM
I agree with gem.

I think that the carve is a great board to do all sorts of carve gybes and also the old school freestyle tricks (like sail tricks and cowboys and carving 360 and body drags...) and it is also a great board because it is easy to control. Its also good for learning how to jump in choppy water. If you get into the new school freestyle, i think that you will be able to learn the volcan with it, but it would definately be good to get a more dedicated freestyle board for it, because on the carve you can't have only one footstrap in the back.

All in all, I think that the carve IS the ideal board for your stage.

Ola_H
8th January 2007, 01:46 AM
I also agree with Gem and Lampi, for a typical sailir progressing kind of typically, a Carve is indeed the perfect board to progress on. It has been optimized for easy planing, good speed, easy jibing, stability etc.

If you're really dedicated you can ski "the Carve stage" though and go directly on a more "performance" type board like a Kombat or even Flare. The Flare may look a bit strange with its odd rails and they may in the beginning feel weird to step on too but it is in fact an easy board to sail (inboard and pretty well forward straps, efficient rocker etc. You might want to trick it out with a significantly bigger fin in the beginning. Even with such a fin, it's NOT as easy as a Carve but if you're really determined to go into freestyle it should work. I've seen people get good in freestyle extremely fast and today people learn forward loops and spocks before they master a carving jibe...

A Kombat is still better at freestyle than a Carve, but not really a dedicated freestyle board like the Flare. I would also say that the Kombat is slightly less easy to get going, but ist better jibing and generally a good board fo classic freemove sailing. Good in waves too and compared to a Flare it has the benefit of a freeride mode (straps back and out) if you decide you like that type of sailing. The Kombat is maybe a bit of an outsider if you know freestyle is gonna be your thing.

But again, the Carve is the natural choice - just not the only choice.

-Lampi-
8th January 2007, 02:35 AM
''I've seen people get good in freestyle extremely fast and today people learn forward loops and spocks before they master a carving jibe...''

That's me:D

GEM
9th January 2007, 11:19 AM
It is definitely possible to learn new school freestyle while not being capable at the more bread and butter skills, just like lots of jazz players can play by ear, but can't read music.

Can be done and advisable are two different things. In the old days, when most boards were hard to jibe, a lot of people just went BNF and crash-tacked at the ends. Odd, I don't see them around anymore...I wonder why they stopped showing up?!

I agree with Ola's thought that some people can go straight to a Kombat, but that's probably only a good idea if you are able to get a LOT of time on the water or are a 'natural'. If you are a run-of-the-mill sailor, can get out sometimes on the weekend, do yourself a favor and get a Carve.

I disagree with Ola's suggestion of going to the Flare. It's a dedicated new-school, slidey, freestyle board (according to *B literature). What this really means is that you can't make it into a great all-around by sticking on a bigger fin (as many of the early freestyle boards could do).

Again, the Carve is a fabulous choice; i would strongly recommend the kinds of moves I suggested. Do that and you'll be able to go into the advanced stuff and be richly rewarded.

stefan2511
9th January 2007, 09:22 PM
Thanks for all the replies! I think the Carve is coming closer. But I've got another choice. It's the Exocet Cross 102. I really like Starboard, and I would like buying one, but this board is also a very good alternative. Is this board comparable with the Carve and a set of different fins? The Cross is not a pure freerider like the Carve, but more freeride/freestyle with some wave ambition. What kind of new school tricks are possible with a Carve in combination with a freestyle fin?

Greets, Stefan

Ola_H
9th January 2007, 10:55 PM
Stefan: I don't know to much about the Cross series of boards, but I guess if anyhting they are most similar to the Kombats. Regarding the Carve, I suppose most tricks are possible, the difference is just that it will be much harder to learn them than on a dedicated freestyle board.

GEM: The Flare is indeed labeled as a dedicated freestyler and it also is a world class freestyle board. The fact though, is that its super easy to sail too. Its slightly longerr than a Kombat fx and has a more drawn out rocker (a pure classic slalom rocker) which makes planing easier. Together with forgiving rails that is still not too soft and no other gimicks on the bottom that gives a board that is easy to plane away on and has a less well definied treshold feel to the planing. It kind of glides up onto a plane fairly efforless and while you certainly _can_ boost its early planing even more by an active sailing style, it handles less active sailors well too. If also forgiving towards differnt sail types and handles both low power and high power stuff. Add the inboard straps and the only thing that makes this board kind of "odd" from a beginners perspektive is the odd deck shape at the rails, but as I wrote, I think you would get used to that pretty quickly. So overall, in real life it works well with beginners despite its freestyle designation.

The Flare is also fast with a differnt fin and a prettty fun blasting board, but since it misses outboard straps, it will never be an as good freerider as a Carve or even a Kombat, so a biginner looing towards that kind of sailing should of course look elsewhere.

Taty Frans
10th January 2007, 12:57 AM
Hi All,

I will diffinetly recommend a Stype 93 or 104..

This board is faster then the Carve, can aslo do freestyle from vulcan to spocks.. you can also use it as a good small waves cruising etc etc..

Taty;)

Taty Frans
10th January 2007, 12:57 AM
Hi All,

I will diffinetly recommend a Stype 93 or 104..

This board is faster then the Carve, can aslo do freestyle from vulcan to spocks.. you can also use it as a good small waves cruising etc etc..

Taty;)

stefan2511
10th January 2007, 03:20 AM
Thanks again for all the answers!

I already thought about the S-type, also because it is used in the Super-X discipline. In my eyes super-x is a perfect combination where I'm looking for. But I've heard some people saying that "the s-type is to fast to use for freestyle". Afterall it could be seen as a sort of slalom board. Would the S-type be too technical and too advanced for a advanced beginner like me? Could it be that I get the topspeed of the Carve easier and quicker then the S-type because I'm not that experienced? Is it possible to learn freestyle on the S-type, or is it the same story like the Carve?

Greets Stefan

GEM
10th January 2007, 07:21 AM
Well that's an interesing twist - a freestylist recommending the S-type over the Flare!

I think that shows that in good hands one can do darned near anything with any board.


As to the comment you've heard that such and such a board is "too fast" - that's almost an oxymoron in windsurfing. In the vast majority of maneuvers (well, FS maneuvers get invented every 5 minutes, so I'll discount those) you almost can't have too much speed. One can be going too fast for a specific maneuver at a particular moment / place, but the sailor can control the power, you know. Going fast is a CHOICE.

Now when you WANT to go fast, some boards will get there and some are just slower. Pretty much all the boards are fast enough; Ola's point that the Flare (and a lot of FS boards) have slalom-type rockers points out the need for speed in freestyle. Compared to years past, even today's wave boards scream - one can't forget Robby Naish's point that "The faster you go, the higher you jump".

So now you have 4 great choices in *B:

Carve - ease of jibing
S-type - quickest, most versatile, but harder to jibe than the Carve
Flare - dedicated FS board, a tiny bit less versatile per Ola
Kombat - great in waves, good all-around one-only board

I've never sailed the Exocets so i can't vouch, but the reviews are great and these days it's hard to make a mistake.

Enough. Pick something and go!

-Lampi-
10th January 2007, 11:42 PM
I'd kinda agree with gem, but buying a super-x board is pretty risky, because those boards are made primarily to go fast and win races, not to be that easy to gybe and learn maneuvers.

Taty Frans
11th January 2007, 04:18 AM
Hi Lampi and Gem,

the reason i did recommend the Stype is because stefan is looking for a board that he can do all kind of things with it, from fast,freestyle,cruising

You can't give a guy that want to have a fast board but still have the feeling of wanting to do a bit freestyle a Flare.

The Flare is not faster then the Stype, and with the Stype you can for sure have more option when sailing, either you can just change the footstraps and go freestyling or simple go do a bit of speed slalom cruising with your buddies.

I am considering you the stype as an all around board. and it will for sure be a good choice..

It will be up to you buddy,

Taty;)

Taty Frans
11th January 2007, 04:19 AM
Hi Lampi and Gem,

the reason i did recommend the Stype is because stefan is looking for a board that he can do all kind of things with it, from fast,freestyle,cruising

You can't give a guy that want to have a fast board but still have the feeling of wanting to do a bit freestyle a Flare.

The Flare is not faster then the Stype, and with the Stype you can for sure have more option when sailing, either you can just change the footstraps and go freestyling or simple go do a bit of speed slalom cruising with your buddies.

I am considering you the stype as an all around board. and it will for sure be a good choice..

It will be up to you buddy,

Taty;)

Taty Frans
11th January 2007, 04:19 AM
Hi Lampi and Gem,

the reason i did recommend the Stype is because stefan is looking for a board that he can do all kind of things with it, from fast,freestyle,cruising

You can't give a guy that want to have a fast board but still have the feeling of wanting to do a bit freestyle a Flare.

The Flare is not faster then the Stype, and with the Stype you can for sure have more option when sailing, either you can just change the footstraps and go freestyling or simple go do a bit of speed slalom cruising with your buddies.

I am considering you the stype as an all around board. and it will for sure be a good choice..

It will be up to you buddy,

Taty;)

Taty Frans
11th January 2007, 04:21 AM
Hi Lampi and Gem,

the reason i did recommend the Stype is because stefan is looking for a board that he can do all kind of things with it, from fast,freestyle,cruising

You can't give a guy that want to have a fast board but still have the feeling of wanting to do a bit freestyle a Flare.

The Flare is not faster then the Stype, and with the Stype you can for sure have more option when sailing, either you can just change the footstraps and go freestyling or simple go do a bit of speed slalom cruising with your buddies.

I am considering you the stype as an all around board. and it will for sure be a good choice..

It will be up to you buddy,

Taty;)

stefan2511
11th January 2007, 04:51 AM
Thanks again for the replies!

I've seen a brandnew S-type 2005 104 l. wood for 718 euro's (that's 50% of the original price!), I think that will be the one for me:D.

Thanks again for the information and advice.

Taty: Succes with your carreer and stuff.

steveC
11th January 2007, 10:33 AM
It's great that Taty came back about the S-Types. In my original review of his comments recommendating the S-Type, I could readily understand his focus, and I thought about adding a comment. For me, the idea that a slalom rocker is hard, or is a problem, has not been my experience. While I'm on custom stuff, I know that a sweet slalom rocker is the key to a great time. Hard to turn? I don't think so, and I can't image that the folks at Starboard are offering a bunch of dogs, especially with the talent and results that have obtained in 2006 with their top riders. Take a look. Really, any other brand will be targeting Starboard's goals and strategys to achieve success. A leader clearly stands out.

Overall, I would place much more credibility on Taty's recommendations concerning the S-Types.

GEM
12th January 2007, 01:10 PM
Don't take me wrong about hard to turn. Harder than a Carve - I suspect so, and that's what I mean. Hard? Well, I'd be surprised if it is like the old slalom boards...

Ola_H
12th January 2007, 01:38 PM
S-Type is certainly an interesting option. I have no beginners that I know that has used that board, but with inboard footstraps and so it should be OK.

For what its worth, germas mag SURF tested the S-type and like both the speed and how it jibes.