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emil
4th June 2010, 03:12 AM
I was reading about the new JP super light wind 154 board and it looks a fantastic idea.
Is there a board produced by starboard similar to this Jp or at least any plan to have one for next year?

Thanks

mark h
4th June 2010, 06:24 AM
Yep, if you've got a spare hour or so:) take a read

http://www.star-board.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8687

ChrisN
9th June 2010, 10:43 PM
I was reading about the new JP super light wind 154 board and it looks a fantastic idea.
Is there a board produced by starboard similar to this Jp or at least any plan to have one for next year?

Thanks

I am really looking forward to hear what SB's team will say here! Yet, don't raise your expectations; they will answer this most probably in August :mad:

As Mark highlighted, we have been discussing this board in detail in the other thread (http://www.star-board.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8687&page=8)! The closest board from SB's massive board-range should be the iSonic 150, which most mean, it is an elder slalom design that planes probably(!) later than the SLW, yet might have a higher top-end speed. So in many aspects it seems that the JP SLW is pretty much on it's own in the market as it is nothing like course/formula boards which seem all pretty unforgiving and ** to gybe, while planning earlier than xxl Freeride boards (e.g. Futura 155). Comparing with SB it seems that SLW is a concept somewhere in between the iS150, Futura 155 and the GO.

However, all of this is mere speculation as we have not seen any side-by-side test of these boards. I/we have found individual tests at:

JP's Super Light Wind was preview tested by PlanceMag (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3410/4565266298_3dca347cf5_o.jpg) from May'10; A more comprehensive test was made by Rik - see at his site (http://www.rikswindsurfing.com/news/2010/05/jp-slw-report/jp-slw-report.html). If you want to download the vid rather than watching on the page (it take 3 times as long) here's the link (http://www.rikswindsurfing.com/news/2010/05/jp-slw-report/jp-slw-film.flv)...:cool:
iS150: the only preview test I have found so far was from a french forum reader (http://www.windsurfing33.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24710&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15)! See also the picts. ;)


From a construction perspective nearly everyone has been recommending a Carbon-based construction for a board of that volume and width. Just like SB's new Formula boards, a Carbon-construction as been discussed as more durable, light in the feet, and "earlier planning" (according to SB themselves, yet they never really confirmed - see another massive discussion in thread)!
ALAS, the iSonic 150 is only available in Wood/Tufskin, therefore I am also VERY interested whether SB will release a Light Wind blaster in comparable construction as the JP SLW Pro. JP's GOLD is unparalleled by current SB construction (unless someone from SB can counter that).:rolleyes:

I am waiting for a test from the German SURF to be available in less than 14 days, then I'll decide between the 2...

Regards
Chris

emil
12th June 2010, 06:59 PM
A very nice report the one made by Rik (should be an example how to explain and introduce a board).
And it's what I was expecting. It's an amazing idea especially because the board is going to work with a 7.5 or 8.5 m light wind sail like the NP Helium (is there a similar sail made by Severne???).
The main reason is planing not top speed and this kind of board is looking great in this job.
More info are very welcome.

Regards
Emil

Remi
12th June 2010, 10:14 PM
Hi Emil,

How, this sail exist long time before NP and his name is Glide, by the way still the winning sail in this category in mqgqzine test include the NP since some years:)

http://www.severnesails.com/2010/sails/glide/index.html

All the best

ChrisN
15th June 2010, 11:44 AM
Remi is there a compareable board from SB for 2011. In other words, shall we wait for a 2011 SB Super Light Wind board instead of buying the JP?

R. Chris
Reg. Chris

Remi
16th June 2010, 06:25 AM
Hi ChrisN,

Very funny to heard this, just to remind you that we work on this segment since many years and have this board for very long time

Free Formula
F-Type
isonic

And of course as each year we come with all new shape for the iSonic

Very glad that people start to open their mind

By the way I am very inerest to see the Magazine test of the Jp against our isonic 150 2010

All the best

Maximus
16th June 2010, 10:53 AM
I am really looking forward to hear what SB's team will say here! Yet, don't raise your expectations; they will answer this most probably in August :mad:

As Mark highlighted, we have been discussing this board in detail in the other thread (http://www.star-board.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8687&page=8)! The closest board from SB's massive board-range should be the iSonic 150, which most mean, it is an elder slalom design that planes probably(!) later than the SLW, yet might have a higher top-end speed. So in many aspects it seems that the JP SLW is pretty much on it's own in the market as it is nothing like course/formula boards which seem all pretty unforgiving and ** to gybe, while planning earlier than xxl Freeride boards (e.g. Futura 155). Comparing with SB it seems that SLW is a concept somewhere in between the iS150, Futura 155 and the GO.

However, all of this is mere speculation as we have not seen any side-by-side test of these boards. I/we have found individual tests at:

JP's Super Light Wind was preview tested by PlanceMag (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3410/4565266298_3dca347cf5_o.jpg) from May'10; A more comprehensive test was made by Rik - see at his site (http://www.rikswindsurfing.com/news/2010/05/jp-slw-report/jp-slw-report.html). If you want to download the vid rather than watching on the page (it take 3 times as long) here's the link (http://www.rikswindsurfing.com/news/2010/05/jp-slw-report/jp-slw-film.flv)...:cool:
iS150: the only preview test I have found so far was from a french forum reader (http://www.windsurfing33.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24710&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15)! See also the picts. ;)


From a construction perspective nearly everyone has been recommending a Carbon-based construction for a board of that volume and width. Just like SB's new Formula boards, a Carbon-construction as been discussed as more durable, light in the feet, and "earlier planning" (according to SB themselves, yet they never really confirmed - see another massive discussion in thread)!
ALAS, the iSonic 150 is only available in Wood/Tufskin, therefore I am also VERY interested whether SB will release a Light Wind blaster in comparable construction as the JP SLW Pro. JP's GOLD is unparalleled by current SB construction (unless someone from SB can counter that).:rolleyes:

I am waiting for a test from the German SURF to be available in less than 14 days, then I'll decide between the 2...

Regards
Chris

Load of dribble mate. I agree with Remi, SB have been making light wind blasters for years. If you cant get an I150/I131 to go past the JP 154 (free formula), then go get some lessons! Sick of reading your diatribe to get to the good bits of the forum. Suggest you and Agrelon just email each other instead.

Ken
16th June 2010, 11:04 PM
Maximus,

Come on, give ChrisN a break. He has tried to get Starboard to comment on the advantages of using carbon in their boards, but they won't respond.

I speculate that the reason for not responding is that for the majority of the sailors out there, carbon vs wood construction in their iSonic boards makes little difference in performance for the extra cost.

PWA slalom racers can take advantage of the stiffer/lighter boards, but for the average advanced sailor, the carbon boards could actually be a disadvantage, possibly offering a rougher less controllable ride.

ChrisN is hung up between the iS 150 and the JP, simply because the JP is carbon and the 150 isn't. He is interested in early planing and feels that the JP will plane earlier, but likes the 150's slalom capabilities better. What to do, What to do? He is wishing that Starboard will make the 150 in carbon and then he will have an easy decision.

Personally, I think he should go with the wood 150 and forget the carbon issue. Once planing, I think the 150 will be the better board.

I have an 08 iS 111 and don't think that a stiffer and slightly lighter board (carbon) would be an advantage for me. For me at 78kg, keeping the board in the water with a 7.6 in 20 knots is a handful as it is. In my opinion, a carbon model would not help with control over the wood model. Dunkerbeck - yes. Me - no.

If you don't like all the dialogue from ChrisN, don't read it. I think for many of visitors to this forum, the discussion has been informative and entertaining, but that is just my opinion.

ChrisN
17th June 2010, 04:20 AM
Load of dribble mate. I agree with Remi, SB have been making light wind blasters for years. If you cant get an I150/I131 to go past the JP 154 (free formula), then go get some lessons! Sick of reading your diatribe to get to the good bits of the forum. Suggest you and Agrelon just email each other instead.

Ken, thanks for the your insightful explanation, yet I need to add to it. :mad:

It seemed such a simple question – Emil and I asked SB whether they would create another board comparable to SLW in 2011? I know about the IS and Formulas already! iS150 is NOT the same type of board as SLW…

So, Maximus, apologies for all the "dribble". As Ken mentioned, please don’t minimize the conversation, just turn the page! I will indeed love some "early planning" clinic on Formulas w. 12 m2 sails on gusty 5-9 knots somewhere hot - any recommendations?

On the "diatribe", some(/most) of us are less knowledgeable than others. After decades of waveboard fetishism, I had a load of questions (http://www.starboard.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8687)on light-wind XXL Slalom/ Freeride blasters that evolved into "early planning" on NON FORMULA boards. Not ALL want to sail on a specialized, unstable slogger, short race-board as a recreational board (Why? See Riks (http://www.rikswindsurfing.com/news/2010/05/jp-slw-report/jp-slw-report.html)comments)…

To my surprise I received a lot of educated responses, mind you from non-Team members! I, as well as others, learned & appreciated the answers on many points – from Formula light-wind bliss, to Carbon<>Wood construction (even if there is still a LOT of disagreement – just see Duracell’s (http://www.star-board.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8705&page=4) animated response). Surely, it was probably too cerebral, yet we enthused on light wind performance parameters, and I certainly learned to read the table of widths more carefully – thus OFO might make SLW an earlier planner than the iS150!

On stealing the forum's "good bits", you are probably right, we should create a separate Forum for SB Consumers with Comparative or other ACID questions to the innovation gurus of SB! Beyond Agrelon we should then drive out Ken, MarkH, BelScorpio, Duracell, Davide, DejaVu, among the many contributors for messing up your concise, binary world.

Actually, If everything was so damn straightforward as you imply, then we would not need a Forum - we could just read the instruction manual. Probably given commercial considerations (or Carbon allergy?), SB didn’t provide any answers!:mad:

That said, I've been windsurfing since 1978, and I am still learning as this sport is still a lot of ART rather than science - can U spell FINS? So share your insights not your nihilism…

Hang Loose – I am going out on my HyperSonic 105 (what a board!)…

Chris :)

ChrisN
17th June 2010, 04:53 AM
Hi ChrisN,

Very funny to heard this, just to remind you that we work on this segment since many years and have this board for very long time

Free Formula
F-Type
isonic

And of course as each year we come with all new shape for the iSonic

Very glad that people start to open their mind

By the way I am very inerest to see the Magazine test of the Jp against our isonic 150 2010

All the best

Remi, many THANKS for your answer! I also thought it funny NOT getting an answer in the other thread (http://www.star-board.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8687)on this same question, so your viewpoint is appreciated. :)

As mentioned to Maximus' nihilistic response, we are discussing super-light-wind, early planning, non-Formula boards! The JP SLW, with its longer outline, more volume up front, same width as the iS150, with an OFO as wide as a Formula LWR, seems like a more "agile", nimble, and comfortable than Formula and iS150 boards. Previews from the German SURF and the French PlanchMag (see article (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3410/4565266298_3dca347cf5_o.jpg)) mentioned the differences of this board from Formula & XXL Slalom.

As soon as I read the new SURF test of JP's SLW I will provide a link and the text. Not sure whether they would have the iS150 in this comparison - you could probably investigate that! I am sure that SURF will compare the SLW with the BIRD (from Lorch), as they are both marketed as non-formula, light-wind blasters for use with the Severne Glide or NP Helium type of sails.

The iS150 didn't change that much these last 2-3Y - will it be different in 2011? Moreover, will you offer it in a more lightweight/ CARBON construction?

Looking forward to your answer...

Chris

Remi
17th June 2010, 05:56 PM
Hi ChrisN,

I can t talk now is too early, thanks for your patient and wait for the iSonic 150 2009/2010 vs Jp

All the best

ChrisN
17th June 2010, 10:18 PM
Remi, I/we all understand you cannot disclose next season news here :(

We'll have to wait for news on the new(?) Isonic 150 2011 release til August then. I (or others) will certainly share any new Test info as it is released, yet as mentioned, I have some doubts that the German SURF will test the iSonic 150 against the JP SLW90. The iS150 is an XXL Slalom board, while JP's SLW seems like a Light wind, Cross-over Freerace, meaning an XXL Slalom & Freeride board focusing on early planning with sails like Glide+Helium. I attached a picture that really shows the difference btw. these two - the JP looks more like a rounded-tail formula, yet the rails are less boxy than Formula. :cool:

As SURF's May Preview of the JP highlighted (see attached) the width of the JP SLW90 makes it a new Superwide Freerace Category :

"This board category is the missing link in the chain. The powerful Early Planning Sails previously lacked a suitable base. Large Freerider are often too heavy, Formulaboards too extreme.
We had - unfortunately only very briefly, then the wind was all gone - the opportunity to sail the new JP at about 7-14 knots. Our impression: The Board with approximately Formula-dimensions is very stable and glides with a bit of pumping very quickly into planning. While planning, a decisive and really new sudden insight comes then: In contrast to Formula boards, one stands on the smart "Race deck" very comfortably. The feet are not overstretched, even though the straps are mounted very pleasantly further inside. Especially in the inner position, one can remain for a very long time relaxed in comparison to the the positions on a Formula. The board has a very subjective nimble and quick feeling. We would sail recommend 8 to 10 square meters. A complete Early Planning test against similar concepts follow as soon as possible."
Comparative boards in this super light-wind category could include SB's Futura 155, Fanatic Falcon 145, Taboo Manta FR 85, AHD SL1 140, RRD X-Fire 130, Naish FreeWide 160, Lorch's BIRD 179, and Goya FXR 145. However, most of these boards are narrower than the SLW90 (and iSonic150), while JP's wider One-Foot-Off makes it much more like a Formula.
Performance though is all speculation untill we get a true comparative test.
Would have been great with a test-center like OTC (http://tenerife.otc-windsurf.com/tests.htm)making an impartial comparison between these 2 great shapes. Such information is very much needed...

R. Chris

agrelon
18th June 2010, 11:21 AM
JP have just released their official video. Antoine and Micah can really get that thing to fly, despite its size!

Definitely worth a watch:

http://jp-australia.com/2010/index.php?id=25

Remi
21st June 2010, 06:26 AM
Hi ChrisN,

The curent isonic 150 because is out side the PWA Box, we make it more Free Ride with insert position and deck shape more like a Futura and also have more volume in the nose compare the 2008 model. So this board will be the one to compare to the Jp

All the best

Joe
9th July 2010, 09:46 PM
Hey Chris - any luck with surf test yet?
Anybody care to translate the previews from the German SURF and the French PlanchMag?
I would love to hear an opinion from a formula rider who has sailed the board.
Looks like a great board!

agrelon
10th July 2010, 03:59 PM
I had the chance to sail the new JP slalom VI boards in Greece last week. I used both big ones in light wind, the 76 and the 82. First thing I noticed was how friggin comfortable the pads and footstraps were, definitely an improvement on the older JPs. Don't know how much the new "racedeck" plays in here...

I used a NP Tempo 7.7m on the 121 and a Hellcat 8.2m on the 136. Both planed f****** early. No one else on the water on normal freeride kit was planing, I believe the wind was from 6-13 knts.

Anyways, these boards seriously lose out on the jibe.... I couldn't plane through, even well powered up on the entrance. The JP SLW is even wider, and apparently nice to jibe, so it should be a really, really nice ride for light wind.

ChrisN
14th July 2010, 04:31 AM
Hey Chris - any luck with surf test yet?
Anybody care to translate the previews from the German SURF and the French PlanchMag?
I would love to hear an opinion from a formula rider who has sailed the board.
Looks like a great board!

Hey Joe, you can read the translated Preview from SURF on JP's SLW90 above.

Here is also my hopefully correct translation (Remi help!) from the French PlanchMag Preview (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3410/4565266298_3dca347cf5_o.jpg)(May 2010) - read it carefully and you will understand why I've been asking so many questions to the SB team:

"Derived from its sister Formula, crowned world champion, the novelty of the summer is an early planner with a line that scoops back from the front foot strap. It is a freerace formula intended for advanced sailors taking into account the position of footstraps offset as well. A doomed race deck supports the heel and promote foot comfort. A large G10 fin supplements the whole. It is aiso available in super Hi-Tech Honeycomb (Gold Edition).

ON THE WATER
Less than 10 cm wide than Formula, this is a less scary JP. The planning is dazzling [just as Agrelon highlighted of the SL line], provided you have an adequate engine! 8.0 m2 is a minimum - We can dare to take off up to 11 m2 from 8, 9 to 10 knots depending on level / water condition. It then sailed flat and with ease upwind. The good thing is that it is more accesible than large for most practitioners.

Certainly, it is not surprising for one that is is not initiated, but it's still fairly easy to exploit. Its strength in relation to a Formula is to be easier planner, less physical, and more fun.
It is midway between big XXL slalom boards of 145 liters (85 cm wide) and Formula, as it is wider than ther XXL slalom and planning as a Formula.
Operable by a light winds, the JP is more suited to sailors >75/80 kg and all who sail more often on Force 3 / 4 as well as 5. One can easily gain 1-2 knots in the planing compared to a 85 cm wide slalom and especially go upwind more easily. What one gains compared to the Xxl slalom upwind and in wind lulls one loses out on top speed and especially in the jibes. The very wide rear requires a jibe resembling a Formula.

Effective in light winds it is fun, very fast on plane, and goes well though chop even if it is less easy. It may also be controlled without too much difficulty into force 5.

CONCLUSION
Windsurfing adapted to inland lakes and slightly windy seas, the JP Australia brings a breath of fresh air on the boards market. It offers an alternative to the Formula boards, so much of interest to most practitioners."



The German test of this board is coming on August - magazine available in 10 days. I doubt it will be compared to the iSonic 150 - the only SB comparable to the SLW90...

R. Chris...

BelSkorpio
16th July 2010, 03:02 AM
Hey Chris,

These are the JP 154 test results of a very enthousiastic Dutch test surfer for "Surf Magazine". I gave my best effort to the translation.



Sail test JP 154 in France on Lac de Serre Poncon camping La garenne Crots.

In the period of 14th june - 5th August, I will be testing profoundly the JP 154 on Lac de Serre Poncon for Surf Magazine. At Serre Poncon you almost have every day thermal winds. Because of the great number of surfers on this lake with light wind slalom and formula equipment, it is the ideal spot to make comparable tests. you can make these comparable tests on the level of early planing, upwind & downwind capabilities, planing through lulls and reaching almost every day in heavily varying wind conditions. Until now, I have been able to test against the Magnum 83 (2009), Falcons 124 (2008), 131 (2006) and 145 (2008 model), some older boards and a couple of Formula boards. Sails in the range 8.6, 9.5 and 10.7 with fins 51-70 cm.

Hereby a few interim test results:


1. Sailing comfort is really great. After just a few racks, the board immediately feels good. It planes very easy and points really well. Changing course is remarkably easy on such a wide board. You typically get the feeling of a slalom board, completely different compared with the heavier and cumbersome feeling of a Formula. The acceleration in the gusts is very good. This is true for all courses, i.e. from downwind, reaching to upwind. The top end speed seems high but is difficult to compare because the racks are very short. Overpowered, the board still has a lot of control. Tacking is very simple because of its length and volume distribution. Jibing goes fairly well, also with lots of wind. The foot straps are nicely positioned outside and also because of the elevated foot part you can put a lot of pressure on the board.

2. In comparison with light wind slalom boards, the JP points much better and goes much deeper downwind. Concerning this aspect, it leans much closer to a Formula than to 80+ cm wide slalom board. You can very easily use very long fins. 70 is the longest that I have used.

3. Early planing and planing through lulls with comparable sails is a little bit better than light wind slalom boards. If you take a 10.7 you're always planing first. This is also because a 80 slalom board is rarely used in combination with 10.7.

4. The interim final conclusion is very positive. This board is extremely fit for typical summer conditions, better than any light wind slalom board that I have used so far.


Of course, there will still follow an extended test report in Surf Magazine with all the relevant details. I expect the next coming weeks still a lot of slalom and formula racers. It would be nice to race a few (mini Formula) racks together !

kiwiben
17th July 2010, 03:08 AM
yeah man. hyper 105! I got one too! United we stand!

But you really should ask more interesting questions... only 1344 views of this thread is amateur hour IMHO :)

P@t
18th July 2010, 04:59 PM
Hi,
The idea is how to bring people on a super wide freeride board.
JPs Super Light Wind name of the board is a good marketing strategy.
An Isonic 150 acts as a deterrent to me because Isonics are thoroughbred racing machines.

Deja Vu
19th July 2010, 01:19 AM
I think SB has a light wind blaster with the IS150! The more I sail this board the more I like it. The JP 154 certainly looks interesting and is definitely worth a look - looks great in the video. I've finally spent some quality time on the 150 with a 9.3 (race sail) a 8.6 (Mk III) and a 8.2 (race sail) and if you're not overly aggressive at initiating the gybe this thing is a lot of fun and you can come out with really good speed. I was having some problems with spin out when I aggressively entered the gybe which gave me some pause about how this board gybed, but now I'm very enthusiastic. I also have the WC Is131 and its is really a tough call when it comes to choosing which board to take. If I am going 9.0 or bigger then it is usually the 150 because it is so comfortable with the bigger sails and it smokes. I own a JP slalom and JP Formula and there's no doubt they're exemplary boards, but I tend to favour the SB boards for they're amazing all round qualities.

Joe
29th July 2010, 08:13 PM
I picked up a JP SLW 90 - here's my take.
I have rode once for about 1 hr last saturday so take it for what it's worth.
This board replaces my SB F161 - both sailing 10.0 Sailworks retro
JP - using a 64 drake fin
Wind 5 - 10knots and then a front came through - 10-12 knots - water 2-3' chop/waves - lake huron
- weight 190lbs
First impressions:
- At the start - no planning (5-10knots). When the front came through planning easily (10+ knots)
- planning similar wind to 161
- less pumping required than 161
- not as fast as 161
- easier jibing
- much easier in chop/waves!
- easy to sail on reach (I though the 161 was easy on a reach as well)
- upwind/downwind - didn't really try extreme angles but no problems squeezing up or downwind
- not sure I like the raised footstrap - it will take some time to get used to
- weighs about the same as 161
- I probablly will try a 70cm fin next time for light wind and the stock 56 with an 8.5
The reason I bought the slw was to have a board for lightwind that it is still comfortable in the chop/waves that we get on lake huron. It was much more comfortable to sail through this than my 161.
Joe

BelSkorpio
30th July 2010, 01:22 AM
Hi Joe,

Interesting.
I see that you have only 1 small negative point, i.e. it's slower than the 161.
This surprises me a bit, because you also say that it goes easier through chop.
No planing at 5-10 knots does not surprise me because I also need with my 161 a sail of 11.8 m2 to get planing in these conditions. I weigh the same like you.

Joe
30th July 2010, 01:50 AM
Speed is always hard to tell. I didn't have a gps on. But it felt noticeably slowly than my 161 - I think that's why is was more manageable in the chop - less speed = more control. 161's are fast!
I will be out on it agian this weekend (hoperfully) and will elaborate more.

Joe
9th August 2010, 07:06 PM
I haved sailed the jp slw a few more times now...
- great in chop / waves - I've sailed in 1 m swell 15-20knots with an 8.5 - way better than a f161 in the rough stuff
- planing - doesn't plane as early as a f161 for me or glide through the lulls as easily (both with a 10.0 retro) - I even tried a 70cm fin
- easier to plane without pumping
- jibing - turns well - keeps speed in turn
- upwind - using a 64cm rakes fin - not even close to a 161 upwind - speed & angle
Overall - my impression is that this a great board as advertised - better for reaching and blasting than a fw

BelSkorpio
10th August 2010, 05:16 AM
Hi Joe,

would you give up your 161 for the jp slw ?

Joe
10th August 2010, 06:21 PM
Yes already done - no regrets.
If my spot was flatter, I would have kept the 161.
Joe