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BelSkorpio
25th June 2010, 07:15 PM
Hi,

Last week I was on my NP RS:Racing 6.7 (2007) with the IS101 and my friend on his new NP RS:Slalom MKIII 7.0 (2010) with the Fanatic Falcon. Wind 15-20 knots. Spot on.

My friend could't keep up with me. I was way faster. So I asked him to use his gear for a while and find out where exactly was the difference.

The Falcon board felt good, but the MKIII was really far inferior. It was very nervous and uncontrollable in the gusts. Because the sail was quite well downhauled, we started tuning with the outhaul. That didn't change much.
The MKIII was rigged with the NP X6 mast.
I used in my RS:racing a tribord mast, which I find delivering excellent performance.

Althouh my RS:Racing is 3 years old, it has so much more power and control c/w the brand new MKIII of this year.

Does anyone have the same experience ?

I would be very reluctant to buy a MKIII, knowing what I know now.

Unregistered
26th June 2010, 12:44 AM
Yes- the stability of the wide sleeve luff is unparalleled.
Mk3 is noticeably twitchier and nervous even with x9 mast but found it to be almost the same speed as the evo2 is almost all conditions.
MK3 is lighter in the hands but a handful in the gust!

Deja Vu
27th June 2010, 04:54 AM
One thing is for sure and that is that the RS:Slalom MKIII isn't slow - 43.69 knots! This was a on a borrowed RS:Slalom MKIII. The sailor obviously bought this sail - he at least liked it. The proof is in the pudding!

http://www.gps-speedsurfing.com/?mnu=user&val=45230&uid=870

BelSkorpio
27th June 2010, 05:49 AM
Yes, a very nice performance of Erik Loots indeed.
Mirror flat shallow water on "The Brace", a famous speed spot in Holland.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYADcpo8cIs
It seems that the MKIII has a lot of top end speed in this conditions.

But still, I know what I felt.
The RS:Racing is far more controllable in heavy gusts combined with chop.
It's the better slalom sail according to me.
There's also a whole lot of difference in jibing c/w the more nervous MKIII.

Philip
27th June 2010, 03:54 PM
I have a number of RS Racing of that vintage. All provide smooth predictable power, punch through gusts and full on power out of the gybe. Also have RS Slalom prior to the Mk III. Slalom for my money has a narrower wind range (construction is lighter weight and is generally less technical) and gives a great ride within that range - as conditions get more bumpy and wind speeds start to go all over the map I reach for the Racing variant.

Deja Vu
27th June 2010, 10:39 PM
Yes, a very nice performance of Erik Loots indeed.
Mirror flat shallow water on "The Brace", a famous speed spot in Holland.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYADcpo8cIs
It seems that the MKIII has a lot of top end speed in this conditions.

But still, I know what I felt.
The RS:Racing is far more controllable in heavy gusts combined with chop.
It's the better slalom sail according to me.
There's also a whole lot of difference in jibing c/w the more nervous MKIII.

I not defending the MKIII sail specifically; however, if you look at Erik Loots comments he specifically points out how much he likes the sail etc. He doesn't mention the board, so I'm assuming that he's attributing his improved speeds to the sail. Where I live the MKIII costs about 45% less than the RS:Racing - that's a significant amount and one shouldn't expect the same performance. This is really an unfair comparison - it is like comparing a $1,500 free race board to a $2,500 Isonic and then exclaiming in surprise that the free race board doesn't perform as well (and then someone like Erik Loots comes along and has the audacity to get 40+ knots out of the free race board:D)! I have never sailed an RS:Racing sail (no doubt it is one of the best out there and one of the most expensive, if not the most expensive) but do own one MKIII (8.6) which I like. I also own 5 Sailworks NX full on race sails and a couple Gaasta Vapours. I feel it is important to put this discussion in context. The MKIII is really a detuned race sail like Gaastra's GTX and perhaps a comparison with other "second tier" racing sails would be more appropriate - like comparing apples to apples rather than to oranges.:)

Cheers

BelSkorpio
28th June 2010, 05:07 AM
Hi Deja Vu,

I've seen some discussions on other forums as well about these 2 types of sails and I'm bringing this subject up, exactly because there is a such a big price difference between these sails. I would have never believed that there could be such a big performance difference between these sails, if I would not have tried the 2 sails on the same day in the same conditions. I'm glad that the NP marketing is actually delivering what they promise.

I only recently got interested in slalom/race windsurfing. Before I was much more into wave, bump & jump on the open sea but I found that I don't have the condition any more to do this, at least not in a decent way. It must be the age, only 44 though ;)
That's why I decided in the beginning of this year to buy a isonic 101 and have some slalom fun with it, focusing on speed, mainly on the lakes next to the sea. When I asked the SB team about which sail to use on it, they all convinced me to go for minimum 2-cam sails or full 4-cam racing sails. That's when my investigation started about slalom/race sails. I was lucky to find a NP RS:Racing 2nd hand and did not pay too much money for it. After all, I didn't know if I was really going to like it. The guy from which I bought the sail (a dutch competition sailor), told me I was about to buy the "rolls royce" of the sails. I think he was right.
I also think now that these kind of sails are more important in the moderate to higher wind forces where you really need the control. It will get a bit less important with lighter winds and huger sails (chop & gusts are less).

Jeezes, I'm gonna stop now, because i feel like I'm writing a novel. :)

Cheers and hang loose !

Kimba
7th July 2010, 11:45 AM
Also keep in mind that the RSR Evo2 And RSS MkIII rig quite differently to the earlier RSR. The MkIII and Evo2 require less downhaul but the tack strap really needs to be cranked on to keep the power locked and down low. The sail should not be bagged in the same way as the older RSR unless deep off the wind or using bigger sails underpowered. I have 9.5 and 7.8 MkIII's and 7.0 Evo2 and am happy with the range vs price for the bigger sails. When it is stronger I am on the 7 and have the extra stability with the extra price.
Tuning tips for the MkIII are on the NP site - MkIII page.

BelSkorpio
7th July 2010, 06:33 PM
Yes, I think you made the right choice, Kimba.

Choosing the more expensive RSR Evo2 in the smaller sail size and the cheaper (but still expensive) RSS MKIII in the bigger sail sizes.

On which board do you use the 9.5 MKIII ?

Kimba
7th July 2010, 10:31 PM
Hi BelSkorpio,
I use the 9.5 on a JP Slalom IV 84 but have a Superlight on order. The 84 also takes the 7.8 nicely if I am on a smaller board and it gets gusty. The lighter feel and softness of the MkIII pumps nicely too.

BelSkorpio
8th July 2010, 02:34 AM
I think the JP Slalom IV 84 is something like the Isonic 131, not ?
How does the 9.5 MKIII perform in overpowered conditions ? Enough control ?
The lighter weight will indeed facilitate the pumping, wich one always need in light wind conditions, that's true.
So you're also fan of the Superlight. Big discussions have been going on about this board on this forum. Probably, you've read them.

http://www.star-board.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8687

kvda
8th July 2010, 03:28 AM
The MKIII has more power than the Racing of 2007/2008, so next time tell your friend to tune the MKIII the right way! And that means not too much downhaul, quite a lot of belly.
It took me some time too to tune the MKIII ok, but after you' ve found how to do it the MKIII burns on the water.
Of course the NP Racing isn't bad at all, it's a great stable and powerful sail too but quite a bit heavier and the light feeling of the MKIII makes it controllable and fast. You should try the MKIII 7.0 (tuned ok) with the isonic 101 - fantastic!

BelSkorpio
8th July 2010, 03:53 AM
Hi kvda,

Power was not the problem with the MKIII. I'm convinced that it has enough of that.
It was all about control in the gusts while flying & bumping overpowered on the chop.
That's where the RSR excells and makes me faster.
I'm not a pro of course. ;)

Unregistered
8th July 2010, 03:09 PM
Hey BelSkorpio
With my MKIII 9,5 on a JP VI 82, I sail it up to 16-17kts thatīs is fine and secure - from 17 to 19kts it getīs more and more heavy (backhand) and above 20kts I stop....!! Iīd be all over the place :-)

I sail the 7,8 and 9,5 MKIII but my 8,4MKII works better overpowerd - maybe the MKIII are harder to trim than the MKII?

I donīt know - Iīm not a pro.....

/Jan

BelSkorpio
8th July 2010, 06:45 PM
Wow Jan, 16-17 knots (pretty 5 BFt) and a 9,5 m2. Impressive.

Either you have a lot of technique or you have mighty big biceps. :)

I've been sailing a 8,4MKII last weekend in slightly overpowered conditions (gusts to 16-17 knots). I could handle it because of side off-shore wind with super flat water. I wonder what a RSR 8,4 would feel like in the same conditions.

Greetz.

Unregistered
8th July 2010, 07:15 PM
Haha, no not really any big biceps - but 196cm tall and 95kg, so yes - I do sail larger sails in windy conditions.

/Jan

Kimba
8th July 2010, 08:13 PM
Hi BelSkorpio & Jan,
I have only used the combo a few times and agree with Jan that from 17 knots the draft starts to wander. This is on a day when it starts out light and you tune accordingly. You might get more top end range with tuning but I would rather go to the 7.8 and 68cm board.
I am 110kg/193cm and find that the 130L/84cm(similar to the 131, a little longer@ 241) is just under what would be optimum for me to plane earlier on really marginal days. I hope the extra volume & width will sit a little higher and not be as physical to get planing. I am sure it will lose slightly to a lightwind slalom at the top end deep of the wind but I am after a board that is always on the plane and has the best average speed. I heard from the dealer conference that it is a really fun board to sail.
I agree the MkIII is harder to trim - if you try to your old favourite rigging tricks, I am still learning to re-think my trimming to suit the new designs.

Haggar
12th July 2010, 07:16 PM
I had RSR's in a 6.7 and 5.8 and used these on X6 masts, not ideal I know, but in Aus the X9's are just so expensive. I have changed to RSS MK III's - 6.2 and 7 again on X6's. Initially I thought the control was slightly less on a square reach, but every time I use these sails I like them more and more. Control is fine for me, as for speed, cant comment yet as I hav'nt had the best conditions yet. One of our better GPS sailors did 40 knts + last month here on a 6.2 RS MK III. The tack strap is very important and you have to tune them different. For me they are the best sail for me at the mo and suite me fine. If you've got money to burn, yeah go RSR and X9's

BelSkorpio
12th July 2010, 09:06 PM
Hi Haggar,

Were you able to still test your RSR and RSS sails on the same day in the same conditions or did you already sell your RSR ? Was the ride choppy and rough enough to evaluate the difference on the level of control ?

I was lucky to do that with my friend's RSS sail.

Haggar
13th July 2010, 10:02 AM
Hi BelSkorpio, no I was'nt able to compare on the same day and conditions. I came to a decission point to either keep RSR's and get X9's, or change to RSS's and keep the X6's. It was really a question of budget. There are other sailors that I know that are getting as good as speeds out of the RSS's MKIII's as the RSR's. I would certainly expect the RSR's to be more stable, an extra CAM and wider luff pocket has to pay dividends. I may think differently after next season (no wind here at the mo).

BelSkorpio
13th July 2010, 06:39 PM
Hi Haggar,

I'm not so sure if we (mortals) will feel the difference between 75% or 100% carbon masts. The best way to test it would be by rigging up 2 RSR (or RSS) sails, one with the X6 and the other with the X9 mast and actually try to feel the difference.
I think that the carbon percentage gets more important in the tallers masts (> 490)
This is just my opinion.
Probably I will get a lot of reactions now. :)

I'm convinced about feeling the difference in control between a RSR and a RSS sail. The difference was quite substantial.
PS: I use a 75% carbon Tribord mast in my RSR. It performs very well according to me.

kvda
18th July 2010, 03:18 PM
I had RSR's in a 6.7 and 5.8 and used these on X6 masts, not ideal I know, but in Aus the X9's are just so expensive. I have changed to RSS MK III's - 6.2 and 7 again on X6's. Initially I thought the control was slightly less on a square reach, but every time I use these sails I like them more and more. Control is fine for me, as for speed, cant comment yet as I hav'nt had the best conditions yet. One of our better GPS sailors did 40 knts + last month here on a 6.2 RS MK III. The tack strap is very important and you have to tune them different. For me they are the best sail for me at the mo and suite me fine. If you've got money to burn, yeah go RSR and X9's

Hi Haggar,
could you tell me more about how you tune the MKIII? To me it seems the downhaul is different compared with the racings, and what about the tack strap??
tnx.

Unregistered
19th July 2010, 06:45 PM
Yes, a very nice performance of Erik Loots indeed.
Mirror flat shallow water on "The Brace", a famous speed spot in Holland.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYADcpo8cIs
It seems that the MKIII has a lot of top end speed in this conditions.

But still, I know what I felt.
The RS:Racing is far more controllable in heavy gusts combined with chop.
It's the better slalom sail according to me.
There's also a whole lot of difference in jibing c/w the more nervous MKIII.

Yeah Eric changed to *board Severne and using his new reflex 5.6 for the first time did a peak of 45.9knts and 43+knt average so the MKlll are duds

Haggar
23rd July 2010, 08:35 PM
KVDA, yes you need to really reef on the tack strap, that puts lots of shape in the bottom of the sail and aids stability. Keep the sail off the boom otherwise I'm told the compact clew doesnt work. As far as downhaul, I had been using full downhaul as I used to use on my RSR's, but it seems to be that this may be too much, so I will try to reduce this a bit. If anyone can comment please do,

cheers