View Full Version : Board for 75% sub-planing, and 25% planing
4th August 2010, 10:47 PM
Currently, only the Rio S or M, Fanatic Viper 75 or 80, or Bic Core 160D or 293D are available at a decent price in my area (Quebec, Canada). I (80kg, intermediate-advanced sailor) ride on a lake with light and moderate gusty winds. I have a 140L board for relatively windy (12-20 knots) days, and a 105L for really windy (15-30 knots) days (always with major wind holes).
I'm looking for a board to use when there is enough wind for planing about 15 minutes in an hour, let's say 5 knots wind with 12 knots gusts 25% of the time. I still want to enjoy the other 45 minutes on the water, and get some speed and upwind ability in sub-planing conditions. The board will be used for beginner buddies, wife, and kids, so ding resistance is important and the EVA deck is a big plus.
I used to have a Go 170. The ride was great when planing, the EVA deck was nice, but it was very sluggish in sub-planing conditions.
For all boards, I plan to buy an aftermarket 52cm race fin and use 7.5m, and 8.5m sails. I am looking for a compromise between sub-planing and planing performance. For example, I don't expect to be faster than my buddies on old Mistral Equipes in sub-planing conditions, but I'd like to be able to keep up with them not too far behind. But when planing, I want a board that will offer far more fun and manoeuvrability than their longboards.
So which board do you think would be the best pick ?
Oh, and I have a bonus fundamentals question.
I understand that the larger board plane quicker, and the longer and narrower boards go faster in sub-planing conditions. But I see that the old Mistral Equipes, by going faster in sub-planing condition, eventually build up enough speed which in turn creates apparent wind that powers the sail enough to get them planing while I was stuck on my Go 170 waiting for a bigger gust to fire it up (everybody on 7.5m sails and similar weight and skills). So are the wider boards really planing faster ?
Thanks for your advice.
5th August 2010, 01:09 AM
You will likely get some additional opinions here, but I have a few things to think about. I haven't sailed any of these, but you may want to consider the following.
First I would eliminate the Bic 160. I think the 293 will be better at what you want.
1. Longer length boards cruse better in lights winds - Bic 293
2. Have soft decks - Rio and Viper
3. Lightest board - Bic
4. Fully retractable dagger boards and foot friendly - Bic and Rio (not sure about the Viper)
5. Best top end - probably the Bic? Guess based on weight, but it's also the largest board.
6. Most volume - Bic 293
All of the boards can handle larger sails than an 8.5. You will get more planing with a 9-10m sail.
As for planing, wide does plane earlier all else being equal, but you also have to consider the weight, stiffness, water release (rail sharpness) & volume differences between the Go and Equipes. Which Equipe? They all have a lot more volume than the Go and probably sharper rails.
I hope this helps a little. Don't make a decision based only upon what I have said, wait for more input.
5th August 2010, 01:39 AM
I forgot to mention, The available Bic at a decent price is a Bic core 293D, supposed to be more ding resistant than the techno 293D, and still only 12kg. It (the techno version) is marketed as a youth racing board, but the dimensions look good on paper (293 long, 79 wide, 205 liters). I don't have the chance to have a look at any of those board from where I live, I'll have to mail order the chosen one.
5th August 2010, 02:08 PM
That is quite a condrum... I Don't think that any of these boards are really suitable for an intermediate-advanced that wants to do enjoyable sub-planing & upwind cruising.
For this you simply need more length, and a good daggerboard. Starboard Phantom 320, or Kona One would be good. Maybe also RRD Longrider or Tabou Windstyler?
Any chance that you would be able to order a board with a better fit if you allow the price to raise slightly? At the end of the day shipping from further away tends to be reasonably affordable (especially if the product is what you need!). Maybe Windance would have a RRD Longrider?
6th August 2010, 09:26 PM
As tu essayé les MOD ou autres RACEBOARD de tes potes !
Beaucoup plus manœuvrables que ce que l'on croit une fois lancées...
Sinon en terme d'Hybrid, vers lesquelles tu as l'air de pencher.
1 > BIC Hybrid
2 > Phantom 320 / Kona Pacer 300 ( second hand )
3 > Bic 293 D
Pour la Kona, un peu plus manœuvrable que les RACEBOARD classiques, mais nécessite de la puissance et une certaine technique pour décoller à 12 Noeuds.
J'utilise une 9.8 pour mes 90 Kg (-;
7th August 2010, 03:26 AM
J'ai essayé une Mistral One Design. Quel retour en arrière, pas très agréable comme planche quand tu es habitué à une GO. Donc je précise, je recherche une planche qui sera surtout performante en planing, mais qui sera un minimum agréable et performante en sub-planing, mais toujours avec priorité pour les performances au planing. As-tu essayé la Bic Hybrid et la 293D ?
I tried a Mistral One Design yesterday. Not fun when you are used to a Go. So to be more precise, my priority is for planing performance, but I want better sub-planing performance than a Go. I guess I want a hybrid board. Anybody has experience with hybrid boards ?
8th August 2010, 03:46 PM
I have owned and raced several hybrids. Z-class, RSX, Bic Hybrid OD, Phantom 320.
They are all designed for racing performance and are not cheap if buying new. They are also much more fragile than fun boards and the decks more rough.
If your priority is more subplaning Performance then the best of these is the Phantom 320. It is the longest and narowest. so its closest to the Raceboard. If youre priority is more for the inexperienced friends then the wider bic gives more stability but significantly slower in subplaning. The RSX will be too expensive if price is an issue and is also more tuned for planing than subplaning.
These boards are more fragile than the funboards but not too hard to repair. If you want the performance and don't mind doing the odd repair and riding apatched up board, they are a good option. It can be useful to have shorter tail fin for learners to be able to sail in shalower water and turn more easily.
None of the Rio type funboards will be able to keep up with an equipe so if that is a priority, then the phantom 320 is the only choice.
I haven't sailed the techno 293 but based on observation, it would only be worth considering if you intend to do youth class racing. The centre board is very small compared with all the other hybrids.
19th August 2010, 03:18 PM
I don't know how much longboarding you've done, but if you've just had one go on an IMCO you're not really getting enough experience to really judge the way they sail. They are much more technical than a Go, which is (to many people) a lot of the fun and challenge.
Top speed of a good Raceboard in big breeze seems to be high 20s to low 30s, which is quite close to FW and fast enough for most people. The hybrids really struggle against longboards unless it's blowing 15-20; for example here the Techno 293 is rated about 2/3 the speed of a Raceboard around a course across the range of winds.
Of course, if you personally don't like the feel of a Raceboard, that's cool and let's hope you love your shorter board - but to give the longboards a fair go you may have to spend a bit longer on one and readjust your thinking and style.
25th August 2010, 08:45 PM
I live In canada ( Northern Ontario) as well and sail on inland lakes.
Last summer I bought an old f-2 lightning and have rediscovered what I gave up many years ago after selling my old Mistral Comp SST longboard: subplaning performance and what many term "the glide"
There nothing like kicking down the centerboard railing the board up and shooting around the lake. Especially when the wind line is around a point or at the other side of the lake. Getting there on a longboard is just soo easy.
Off the wind with bigger sails you may not plane but the board starts to glide with minimal effort and water displacement. The glide is amazing .
Add a litle windwave and you can feel the board accelerate even in the smallest of wavelets.
And while there may be a tradeoff with stability with a narrow boad , adding a bit of center/daggerboard and a bit of speed does wonders anmd adds spped in itself.
Like when you ride a bike..going very slow its very unstable but even a snails pace get things stable.
Now i am probably telling you things you already know so forgive me but there some good info here on what to buy but dont go too wide.
narrow is key to "the glide"
In fact i am so impressed with this aspect of light wind sailing that I am toying with the idea of
promoting a group project ( actually an anti "groupthink") or a type of a consensus of finding a shape and then glassing a few boards this winter to find more of " the glide"
A longboard redux if you will.
A mental focus to keep the conhesiveness of the group or club this winter.
Now dont get me wrong but I know it is probably cheaper to buy many products as this idea has been thought out ( or has it )
but i want to try my/our hand ( literally shaping sculpting ) on something that the group will take part in
enter: The Thunderboard.
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