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greyghost
10th October 2010, 09:10 PM
I use my Carve 145 with the huge stock 52 cm tuttle Drake fin for 7.0 and 8.5 light wind sailing. I have a MFC Liquid Pro 44 cm for overpowered 7.0 conditions and rarely 6.0 (usually shift down board sizes).

I need a weed fin and was looking at the MFC weed burner, but the max size is 46 cm. I'm not sure about the surface area as none is listed. Also options of Ames Blade weed (47 cm, 704 cm area), Ames SB weed (46 cm with 556 cm area/51 cm 643 cm area/58 cm 782 cm area).

Would the 46 cm MFC Weedburner be an adequate for this board (7.0 to 8.5 sails), or should I go bigger with an Ames ?

thanks

Roger
11th October 2010, 08:26 AM
Hi Greyghost,
Any of the above weed fins will work with your sail sizes.
The TA SB Weed is quite good, but if you weed is really heavy and clumpy (not all of it near rhe surface,
one of the more swept back weed fins could be better.
I have no expereince with the MFC Weedburner, but it looks pretty good on the MFC web page, but I could not figure a way to measure the Leading Edge (LE) angle. That can be critical to performance of a
weed fin.
My personal choice is the Lessacher Duo (Asymmetric foil) weed fin, but they are a little hard to get in the USA.
Another great weed fin would be the Tangent Dynamics "Reaper".
These have a progressive rake right at the interface with the board and this really helps to shed weeds, then a little steeper (45 deg. rake further down.
Be aware that any of the weed fins with a 50 deg. LE angle shed weeds, but the upwind performance is not as good, plus they stick way out behind the tail of the board, so be careful, especially when water starting, beach starting, or learn either one as the trailing edge can be very sharp and the tip makes quite a "lance" if you kick it or run it into your leg.
Where are you sailing (what sort of weeds)?
Roger

greyghost
11th October 2010, 11:29 AM
Hi Roger,

thanks for the reply. The other day, I tried a inland location close to work that is a 500 acre pond. I could see some light weeds under the surface. The ones that kept getting hung up on my fin were more stringy, about 1/4" thick, more like thick grass. Only a few at a time, but enough to make it necessary to manually shed the weeds.

First time sailing there so I have no idea how bad the weeds might be at other times of the year. However, I plan to go there fairly regularly given the proximity.

With a quick search, I found a Tangent Dynamics Reaper that is 39 cm or 42 cm in Tuttle. It's my understanding that this should point a little better than a traditional 45 degree fin.

It seems that the 2005 Carve 145 liter has a much larger stock fin than in subsequent years. Do you think the 42 cm fin TDR fin would suffice with the 7.0 to 8.5 (73 kg sailor) on this particular board or would I be better off with a 39 cm or 46 cm for that matter?

thanks again
Jeff

Roger
11th October 2010, 08:53 PM
The Reaper 39 would be perfect for your 7.0 and could work for your 8.5, but the 42 is what I use on an
8.5.
I have the Reapers in 29, 32, 35, 39, 42, and 46.
The Reapers can "spin out" slightly more than the Lessacher Duo asymmetrical fins,but they do a really goo job in Hatteras. I like the Reaprs alot!
Freshwater weeds could get very thick, when the "bloom".
R

greyghost
12th October 2010, 06:33 AM
I guess you do like the Reapers ;-)

The Reaper sounds like a good compromise between performance and weed shedding.
A couple more questions re the 39 cm vs the 42 cm fin.

It seems that other manufacturers have larger fins 46 cm for the same 7.0-9.0 sail range. Is there something about the design of the Reaper that allows for a shorter/shallower fin?
Coming from a 52 cm stock fin, 39 cm seems so small.

However, on the flip side, the 42 cm would be great for the 8.5 but would I be overfinned for the 7.0,

thanks again
Jeff

Roger
12th October 2010, 10:01 AM
Hi Jeff,
I have more weed fins than anyone has a right (or need) to own.
Most sailors have a choice of one or two weed fins.
I have a choice of 3 or 4 different brands, and at least 4 sizes in each brand.
Yeah, a lot of weed fins!
Since you seem to think the 52 cm is a bit too big, I'm pretty sure you will
do well with the 39 cm.... even with your 8.5 m2.
Weed fins all have alot more "longitudinal area" (due to the way they are
swept back) so they perform like a larger (but shorter front to back longitudinal
blade span) vertical fin.
In the Lessacher Duo Weed fins, the largest he makes is a 40 cm (for 10.0 m2 +
formula size sails).
There is a chart on the Lessacher Web page that gives the area differences of
vertical and swept back @ 45 deg. LE fins.
Here's the link:
http://www.designlessacher.com/Website/Weedfins_Laenge.html

What year model is your Carve 145...... I'd like to know the width?
The width could make some difference whether the 39 Reaper or the 42 Reaper
would be the best for you.
If you were buying a Lessacher Duo Weed fin I would suggest a 36 cm for your 8.5.
For simply shedding weeds, the depth (from the bottom of you board) is not so critical,
but where I sail in the Pamlico Sound west of Hatteras, the depth is much more important as
it determines which sandbars you can go over and which will hang your fin up due to shallow water.
Hope this helps,
Roger

greyghost
12th October 2010, 11:03 AM
Yeah, a lot of weed fins!

Since you seem to think the 52 cm is a bit too big, I'm pretty sure you will
do well with the 39 cm.... even with your 8.5 m2.

What year model is your Carve 145...... I'd like to know the width?
The width could make some difference whether the 39 Reaper or the 42 Reaper
would be the best for you.
.
Hope this helps,
Roger

extremely helpful, thank you
sorry for all the questions

that's a lot of weed fins ! Currently, I have only one powerbox weed fin for my smaller board, LOL.

2005 Carve 145 Liter, 78 cm wide, tail 52 cm, 260 cm length (per archives)

Actually, I've found the 52 cm fin to be perfect with both the 8.5 and 7.0. I very rarely have pulled out my smaller 44 cm MFC fin. I was just thinking that this board might have been designed with a larger fin in mind for earlier planing etc (maybe not, I really have no idea )?? I wanted to make sure I got a big enough fin, just not too big :-)

This will very likely be the only weed fin I'll buy for this board so having something that would work for both the 7.0 and 8.5 would be ideal. It sounds like the 39 cm would be best unless you think the width of the board would justify the 42

thanks for the link as well
much appreciated

Lessacher
13th October 2010, 02:08 PM
I work the doubleasymm.fins.100% carbon. The last time work I only rowings vertical. If you contact
stones,how with G10. Second glue and powder of grillcoal. USA is no problem. You pay 40 Euro
for shipping. For 145liter and good 9mē is 36cm okay. 36cm is vertical. Diagonal, with rake 45 ° is
50cm. Remember: 1,414 * 36...... Roger help me, and thank you, I cannot find it Wolfgang

Roger
14th October 2010, 09:26 PM
All,
I am communicating with Wolfgang Lessacher directly by email to see if we can make his post a
bit clearer.
I will work with Wolfgang to cear up a couple of points, then one of us will repost.
Roger

greyghost
15th October 2010, 11:18 AM
Wolfgang, I do appreciate your interest and input. Your fins do look impressive but unfortunately I think that it would be cost prohibitive for me to purchase. Shipping alone would be close to $60. Roger, thank you for your advice and trying to help clarify things. Knowing that I was looking at the Reaper (probably 39cm), I did not want to trouble either of you...though perhaps this info might help someone else in a similar situation. I'm probably going to order in the next couple days to get it for next weekend. thanks to you both

greyghost
21st October 2010, 08:56 AM
Just posting an update

I received the Reaper 39 cm today. Pretty close to a perfect match to the 52 cm Drake freeride stock fin re the leading edge and area

Going to try it out tomorrow
Thanks again Roger !

Roger
22nd October 2010, 12:07 AM
Hi Jeff,
I think you will like the Tangent Reaper 39 alot.
I suggest, if you plan to sail the fin this weekend, that you take some time in the next couple of days to get some adhesive cement (rubber glue of some sort) and some thin neoprene ( Starboard "board kit bags" are the correct thickness) and make a gasket for the front overhang on the fin.
Also get a single cut (smooth not a rough double cut) file and a bar of soap and fit the new Reaper 39 cm
fin to your board.
Much better than getting to the launch on Saturday morning and find the fin does not fit in the box real well.
Remember to fit the fin so that it needs to be "pulled" into the box the last little 1/32" inch. This is the "draw" on the tapers and if you get the correct "draw", your fin screws become a back up "hold it in"
mechanism. The tapered surfaces on the front and rear of the fin root give the fin all the support and locational fit that it needs.
Let us know here how this fin works for you.
Regards,
Roger

greyghost
22nd October 2010, 05:43 AM
Hi Roger,

I actually sailed it today. :-) (test fit it last night in the garage) Perhaps planed up a tad little later than the 52 cm stock fin (not really sure because I didn't swap in the 52 to compare), but otherwise was great. I didn't really note a huge difference in pointing up wind and it handled the 8.5 fully powered up perfectly.
And NO weeds got stuck !

by "gasket" do you mean a thin layer between the overhanging edge of the fin and the board?
I was careful to watch that area closely when tightening the screws to make sure not to overtighten and crack it off. That would have been a real bummer.

thanks again
Jeff

Roger
22nd October 2010, 06:29 AM
Hi Jeff,
Did you check the fit on the front taper of the fin root?
The overhang should NOT be what holds the front of the fin off the bottom of the board.
If you put soap (bar of soap, which will turn shiny where it contacts anything)
on the front and back radius tapers of the fin root, you will be able to tell
where those radii are in contact with the fin box.
If the front radius is not in contact with the front of the fin box, your fin is being held up
away from the front taper by the overhang.
Might be good to take a smooth file and carefully (VERY carefully) file a few strokes (about 0.002"
per stroke) of material off the overhang.
When you can see a tiny bit of light under the overhang, with the fin fully pulled in by the fin screws, you
have it fitting perfectly.
Then get some waxed paper and apply a bit of liquid rubber to the fin overhang.
The rubber will adhere to the fin overhang, and the waxed paper will keep it from sticking
to your board. When the liquid rubber has cured, you can carefully trim the rubber to
the same profile as the original fin overhang after you take the tin out of the board.
If you really want perfection, slide a very thin sheet steel or stainless shim (0.005" should be good),
(with the fin loose), and clamp the shim stock under the fin overhang. Then use a razor knife to
trim around the front profile of the overhang.
Now you have a very thin "gasket" permanently attached to your fin overhang and no weeds
can collect under there. It also seals the LE overhang to board interface, giving a a little better
upwind performance.
Hope this helps,
Roger